The Naked Scientists
  • Login
  • Register
  • Podcasts
      • The Naked Scientists
      • eLife
      • Naked Genetics
      • Naked Astronomy
      • In short
      • Naked Neuroscience
      • Ask! The Naked Scientists
      • Question of the Week
      • Archive
      • Video
      • SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
  • Articles
      • Science News
      • Features
      • Interviews
      • Answers to Science Questions
  • Get Naked
      • Donate
      • Do an Experiment
      • Science Forum
      • Ask a Question
  • About
      • Meet the team
      • Our Sponsors
      • Site Map
      • Contact us

User menu

  • Login
  • Register
  • Home
  • Help
  • Search
  • Tags
  • Member Map
  • Recent Topics
  • Login
  • Register
  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. Non Life Sciences
  3. Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology
  4. Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« previous next »
  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?

  • 5 Replies
  • 922 Views
  • 0 Tags

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dimensional (OP)

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 30
  • Activity:
    6%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« on: 20/01/2022 20:03:45 »
The diagram has 3 objects in it with 3 world lines in yellow.  There is a rock traveling really fast through the origin in the primed frame.  There are 2 more rocks at rest in the unprimed frame.  I also put the rocks on the x' axis just to remind me what is happening in the frame of reference of the rock that is traveling.  Is all of this roughly correct?

* SD3.jpg (51.15 kB, 1152x648 - viewed 60 times.)
Logged
 



Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2255
  • Activity:
    21%
  • Thanked: 565 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« Reply #1 on: 20/01/2022 23:17:09 »
The one rock (diagonal yellow line) seems to be moving dang fast in both frames, not just the primed frame. Faster in the unprimed frame.

About the angles:
You've not shown a 'light speed' line originating from the origin, but it would go at a 45° angle and the x' and ct' lines would be symmetric about that (equidistant), and they're not. The ct' line as you've drawn it is too close to the light line.

As for the two rocks, they're shown at one set of locations in the unprimed frame (intersections of their worldline with the grey x' line), and another location (dots) in the primed frame. These are objective events and the rocks cannot be in two locations at the same time in the primed frame as shown. So the red dots belong at the intersections, not where you've drawn them. Their worldlines will tilt to non-vertical if you do the Lorentz transform where the primed frame has perpendicular axes.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Dimensional

Offline Eternal Student

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 940
  • Activity:
    43%
  • Thanked: 180 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« Reply #2 on: 21/01/2022 00:47:29 »
Hi.

   Here's an annotated diagram with some of the points that Halc raised (see attachment).

Quote from: Dimensional on 20/01/2022 20:03:45
I also put the rocks on the x' axis just to remind me what is happening in the frame of reference of the rock that is traveling.
   That's a little bit worrying.  I'm not sure I've understood but I'm a little concerned that you might be thinking that the primed frame is one where the rock passing through the origin is actually at rest.   
   All of the 3 rocks are moving in the primed frame.

Best Wishes.

* spacetime diagram.jpg (76.75 kB, 1152x648 - viewed 55 times.)
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Dimensional

Offline Dimensional (OP)

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 30
  • Activity:
    6%
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Naked Science Forum Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« Reply #3 on: 21/01/2022 05:32:44 »
Quote from: Eternal Student on 21/01/2022 00:47:29
Hi.

   Here's an annotated diagram with some of the points that Halc raised (see attachment).

Quote from: Dimensional on 20/01/2022 20:03:45
I also put the rocks on the x' axis just to remind me what is happening in the frame of reference of the rock that is traveling.
   That's a little bit worrying.  I'm not sure I've understood but I'm a little concerned that you might be thinking that the primed frame is one where the rock passing through the origin is actually at rest.   
   All of the 3 rocks are moving in the primed frame.

Best Wishes.
Thanks, I did not know that all 3 rocks are moving in the primed frame.  Then what is the point of reference of the primed frame?

And I did not know that the two rocks are on the world lines from the unprimed frame.
Logged
 

Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2255
  • Activity:
    21%
  • Thanked: 565 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« Reply #4 on: 21/01/2022 13:42:01 »
Quote from: Dimensional on 21/01/2022 05:32:44
Thanks, I did not know that all 3 rocks are moving in the primed frame.  Then what is the point of reference of the primed frame?
The worldline of a statioary object in the primed frame would be parallel to ct' axis, just like the worldlines of the two rocks stationary in the unprimed frame are parallel to ct.

Why this specific choice of primed frame was chosen for the picture is something only the author of the picture can answer.

Quote
And I did not know that the two rocks are on the world lines from the unprimed frame.
The worldline of any object is a set of objective events, and events are not frame specific. You can transform the line to a different frame (say one in which the rocks are not stationary), but all the events are still the same events. Only in the one frame in which they are stationary do they map to the same location in space, so only in that one frame are they parallel to the time axis.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Dimensional



Offline Halc

  • Global Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum King!
  • ********
  • 2255
  • Activity:
    21%
  • Thanked: 565 times
    • View Profile
Re: Is this a correct spacetime diagram with world lines?
« Reply #5 on: 21/01/2022 22:37:40 »
This is related to my original comment about the angles of some of the lines, ct' in particular.
These are not necessarily wrong since the scales of the two axes are not labeled.
They're both in distance (meters say), but maybe the long x axis goes from 0 on the left to 10 meters on the right, and the shorter ct axis goes from 0 at the bottom to 20 meters at the top, in which case the axes, while both in meters, are simply not to the same scale. So the drawing is not necessarily wrong in that way unless the scales are similar.
If they are scaled similarly, then your diagonal yellow 'high speed rock' is moving at considerably faster than c since it goes to the right faster than it goes up.
Logged
 
The following users thanked this post: Dimensional



  • Print
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
Tags:
 

Similar topics (5)

Why do hot air ballons send dogs into a "the world is ending" barking fit?

Started by dentstudentBoard General Science

Replies: 6
Views: 13428
Last post 30/11/2020 15:40:24
by alancalverd
Are bees the health and safety, risk-assessment gurus of the insect world?

Started by thedocBoard Plant Sciences, Zoology & Evolution

Replies: 0
Views: 5935
Last post 15/02/2010 12:26:30
by thedoc
Would an unlimited supply of free energy solve the world food shortage?

Started by Joe L. OganBoard General Science

Replies: 2
Views: 5700
Last post 14/02/2010 13:22:03
by Karsten
Is the Copenhagen Interpretation correct interpretation of quantum mechanics?

Started by jeffreyHBoard Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology

Replies: 81
Views: 26923
Last post 12/11/2015 20:37:13
by liquidspacetime
Is the online Omni calculator correct as a combined gas law calculator?

Started by melaniejsBoard Geek Speak

Replies: 0
Views: 13216
Last post 06/03/2020 16:43:13
by melaniejs
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
  • SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
    Privacy Policy
    SMFAds for Free Forums
  • Naked Science Forum ©

Page created in 0.107 seconds with 44 queries.

  • Podcasts
  • Articles
  • Get Naked
  • About
  • Contact us
  • Advertise
  • Privacy Policy
  • Subscribe to newsletter
  • We love feedback

Follow us

cambridge_logo_footer.png

©The Naked Scientists® 2000–2017 | The Naked Scientists® and Naked Science® are registered trademarks created by Dr Chris Smith. Information presented on this website is the opinion of the individual contributors and does not reflect the general views of the administrators, editors, moderators, sponsors, Cambridge University or the public at large.