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General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 02/03/2021 19:38:25

Title: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 02/03/2021 19:38:25
My belief, which is purely based on my own observations (and therefore unscientific) is that most people in the developed world do not really believe in God. I feel most people that "believe" in God suppress their own skepticism due to conformity and/or because of the terrifying fact that our consciousness completely vanquishes after our death. People in the free, industrial world can see the obvious reality of a godless universe.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: alancalverd on 02/03/2021 22:42:35
Until recently most kids were brought up in an environment where, whatever arguments and accidents took place during the day, a Man with a Beard would appear in the evening and dish out comfort, admonition, punishment and wisdom about things beyond their ken. It would be awfully nice if there was an alpha male you could appeal to in later life, so Man invented God. Problem is, He doesn't seem to turn up quite as regularly or deliver justice quite as consistently as your dad did. 
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 03/03/2021 05:48:51
most people in the developed world
You'll have to be clear in defining the boundary of the developed world. Do you also count the immigrants?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: alancalverd on 03/03/2021 11:19:27
One reason for leaving other parts of the world and coming to the godless UK, USA, Canada, Australia, or wherever, is to escape from a disgusting theocracy. 

The developed world surely means one that is not ruled by perverts and superstition.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 21/03/2021 23:52:03
There is the Hardy Question, in the UK giving that half have encountered the supernatural. Not ghosts. There are NDE accounts including from some who once were atheists and scientists. Taking on a duality of science and mysticism. It is a matter of the quality of preaching, literature, laying on of hands, and how open minded the people are.

I suppose some people don't like giving money in church, or, don't like Bible characters and stories in it... so whether they think there is a god or not, they decide to doubt. There are pressures on us not to believe, lust, anger, god is mostly untestable, fear of death, and faith without regular input diminishes. Why take in input? The music and teaching has to be good, but traditional church has been weak. Contemporary church is limited in appeal. People want to fornicate instead...

People worship pleasure, or money or their family.

People may be confused about gods plural or not want to consider life after death due to conscience or the mercy god shows wicked people.

If someone trips on a hose, they cuss or call on Jesus.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Kryptid on 22/03/2021 01:12:48
I feel most people that "believe" in God suppress their own skepticism due to conformity and/or because of the terrifying fact that our consciousness completely vanquishes after our death.

Although related, I feel that the question of the existence of a supreme being doesn't necessarily imply (or refute) the existence of an afterlife. If I'm not mistaken, Buddhism doesn't have a supreme being but does have an afterlife. Alternatively, you can have a god who simply doesn't offer an afterlife.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/03/2021 08:53:41
god is mostly untestable
You spelled "completely" Incorrectly.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/03/2021 08:59:26
If someone trips on a hose, they cuss or call on Jesus.
In my case that is true to the extent that Jesus has changed his name to "F**K!"

And it's absurd to imagine that, in the moment between tripping and swearing, you actually think about the words you utter.
There isn't enough time for that. Your choice of words is largely down to what you have heard other people say.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: jeffreyH on 22/03/2021 10:41:11
If you can't observe god then you can't make any determination on god's existence. Anecdotal 'evidence' is not scientific and neither is blind faith. If god doesn't interact with the universe in an observable way then god is an irrelevance. The simplest and most plausible explanation for the plethora of gods is that man invented them all.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: alancalverd on 22/03/2021 12:25:56
There's a difference between observing something (the sun), observing the effect of something (heat, tides), and inventing a useful concept that can't be observed but has consistent prospective value in your model of the universe (energy).

AFAIK no god has ever met any of the above conditions. Acts of god are ascribed retrospectively and tend not to be repeatable.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 24/03/2021 23:24:01
After the misfires of flat earth, geocentrism, God on clouds in the sky surrounded by winged creatures, Satan under foot, the entire of world historic religious madness, etc etc, most people would rather live for the present and hope for an afterlife rather than slaving to build churches for a few rich folk, live in pointless obedience to a doctrine only to die young in poverty and in misery.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 26/03/2021 12:50:39
The system of justice from Moses, Jesus, Paul and Rome when developed well, leads to a good business system and a reasonably safe society, and some value on peace. It caused good times, we still have some of now.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/03/2021 15:33:17
The system of justice from Moses, Jesus, Paul and Rome when developed well, leads to a good business system and a reasonably safe society, and some value on peace. It caused good times, we still have some of now.
Unless, you are female, gay, left handed, a slave, a foreigner, an atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, anyone who likes shellfish, a hairdresser ....
Why do you post such transparent nonsense?

What actually caused peace and prosperity was overthrowing those insane prejudices.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: charles1948 on 26/03/2021 21:38:09
What caused peace and prosperity since the end of World War II, in1945, was the invention of nuclear weapons.
These weapons scared us so much, that we daren't start World War III.  Even though we really wanted to.

And if weren't for nuclear weapons, we'd have had World Wars IV and V by now.  And getting ready for World War VI.
Let's face it - we humans like fighting wars.  You can't deny it.  All history shows it to be true.

Only the H-bomb is holding us back.  How much longer can it restrain us, do you think?


Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 27/03/2021 01:59:20
The system of justice from Moses, Jesus, Paul and Rome when developed well, leads to a good business system and a reasonably safe society, and some value on peace. It caused good times, we still have some of now.
John locke
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 13:26:53

Unless, you are female, gay, left handed, a slave, a foreigner, an atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, anyone who likes shellfish, a hairdresser ....
Why do you post such transparent nonsense?

What actually caused peace and prosperity was overthrowing those insane prejudices.

It was not the bomb that somehow gave us good lives.

Some of Moses very old law is not applicable to todays' Christians and even Jews. It is in principle and it was like salt dissolving into water, but over centuries, it did works. We know we can't be of a high holiness and justice by trying to obey the law. But in England... the laws were appreciated and mediated upon for decades and so some people dislike the hardness of the laws and some of the ideas, are not considered so just. Like lamb sacrifice, because some people are just, at heart, because of Moses, with correction and exemplification from Jesus and the carrying of Jesus to Rome, with Rome taking Jesus message in.

Old fashioned people will tell their sons, if you make your girlfriend pregnant, you are obliged to marry her. This idea comes from Moses. Along with bones people having the idea of justice spit a lot out. Like if a man sets upon a young virgin, she must marry him. I don't understand why.

Revising Moses with Jesus is fine.

Children may complain about lamb sacrifice, having an immature sense of fair.

So also, if you answer a math question to a lecturer, you may have the right answer. The roots of English language thinking go far into the churches. Right means just.

I think there have long been mockers, even going back to the beginning of Britain taking up the Gospel. Inventing rubbish like, witch hunting, and sink or swim...

People overthrew those insane prejudices with Christ Jesus revising the law, that is the Gospel in practice.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 13:42:32
It was not the bomb that somehow gave us good lives.
Nobody said it was.
Christ Jesus revising the law, that is the Gospel in practice.
OK, let's look at what the Gospel says
Matthew 5:17 et seq

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

OK, So the gospel says that Christ said that the old laws stay forever.

That's actually the gospel in practice.
But it's very common for so called Christians to seek to pretend otherwise.
I expect you are about to try to do it.
Please don't bother.
We can read.
We know what the gospel says.
And it's not progressive.

Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 13:52:27
if you make your girlfriend pregnant, you are obliged to marry her. This idea comes from Moses.
That's a God-squad lie.
The idea predates Moses.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 14:11:26
It was not the bomb that somehow gave us good lives.
Nobody said it was.
Christ Jesus revising the law, that is the Gospel in practice.
OK, let's look at what the Gospel says
Matthew 5:17 et seq

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

OK, So the gospel says that Christ said that the old laws stay forever.

That's actually the gospel in practice.
But it's very common for so called Christians to seek to pretend otherwise.
I expect you are about to try to do it.
Please don't bother.
We can read.
We know what the gospel says.
And it's not progressive.


Charles 1948 mentioned the bomb.

Progressive ideas can be rubbish, progressing into a ditch. There needs to be turning. The leading cause of death in the US last year was abortion. Euthanasia is rot too. What's the dream? Some families have one child, others have four. What will the people of the future want?

I agree with keeping all the law, on paper or monitor, but in text books for interpretation, literal interpretation is not correct. Referring to Gordon Fee. The law was under the old covenant. Jesus corrected Moses law regarding divorce, saying it was not this way at the beginning. Moses' law has principles that apply outside rural communities. Jesus summed up the law in two commands. Love for God and man.

The law can be fulfilled and the prophets said it would become obsolete, especially regarding the Ark of the Covenant.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:16:36
Charles 1948 mentioned the bomb.
Yes, he did.
But he didn't say anything along the lines you implied by this
It was not the bomb that somehow gave us good lives.

It was a straw man at the start, and you somehow thought it was a good idea to double down on it.

Why is that?

Why do you think that the best way to put your ideas forward is to lie about what others have said?
Is it because your ideas just aren't very good?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:21:40
The leading cause of death in the US last year was abortion.
No it wasn't.
The leading cause of death was birth.

Arguably, the only cause of death is God.
literal interpretation is not correct.
OK, who gets to choose what interpretation is "correct"?
For far too long, the church was happy to say that the correct interpretation included burning witches and keeping slaves.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 14:21:51
if you make your girlfriend pregnant, you are obliged to marry her. This idea comes from Moses.
That's a God-squad lie.
The idea predates Moses.
Maybe the Egyptians had such a law, it is common sense. Moses learned in the Pharaoh's courts. But the Europeans did not always get married, some cultures have uncles raising sons. Men in other cultures could have several wives. Romans had Mars and Jupiter... and for them the adopted son was the main son, the inheritor.  What did the Druids or Saxons do? Even if they would marry of there sons and daughters, they could keep that practice after conversion, because it's in the law of Moses.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:30:04
it is common sense.
So, you accept that this was a lie
This idea comes from Moses.

Why should we trust anything else you say?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 14:33:24
The leading cause of death in the US last year was abortion.
No it wasn't.
The leading cause of death was birth.

Arguably, the only cause of death is God.
literal interpretation is not correct.
OK, who gets to choose what interpretation is "correct"?
For far too long, the church was happy to say that the correct interpretation included burning witches and keeping slaves.

I do not know how to compare my referring to the mention of the bomb as a lie, to mentioning something as important as the wickedness of deliberate terminations on a vast scale, as also being a lie.

So when Rome gained the Gospel, maybe 7% of society embraced it with reverence and love and endured persecution, but the church that followed state religion conversion were half hearted and possibly contained mockers who emerged as twisters of the truth.

The concept of a witch was nonsense that was made up. The idea that these women sealed a pact with Satan by kissing his rectum... who would sincerely believe that? Some people want someone to hate.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 14:36:35
it is common sense.
So, you accept that this was a lie
This idea comes from Moses.

Why should we trust anything else you say?

I do not know ancient Egyptian laws, nor Druids or Saxons. A lie means to mislead someone deliberately.

Moses formed his own system and we read and our ancestors read it.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 14:42:58
Not all Christian countries held witch hunts. Hungary banned them.

It is in Moses, Jesus, and our ancestors amidst the evil doers and maybe some of my ancestors did evil, it is in them that we gradually became enlightened. Not Mars or Woden...
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:44:02
The concept of a witch was nonsense that was made up.
It was endorsed by the church,

The idea that these women sealed a pact with Satan by kissing his rectum... who would sincerely believe that?
Well, obviously, in order to believe it, they would first have to believe that Satan exists. So, it's fair to assume that they were followers of an Abrahamic religion.
And he was also made up by the church.

The real problem with religion is exactly that; it gets people to believe stuff that isn't true- like virgin birth- and once they accept this weird idea that reality doesn't apply, you can get them to accept all sorts of tosh.

You can make them believe that abortion is the biggest cause of death.
You can make them believe that Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
You can make them believe that gay people should be stoned to death.

That's why religion is a debasement of humanity. It stops people thinking straight.
It makes them imagine that someone in this thread suggested that the bomb made things good.


Some people want someone to hate.
And religion gives them two things;
One is a group to hate - all other religions
and the second is that it gives them a "justification" for that hatred- that "we" are chosen by the ultimate authority- God- and must therefore be right and anyone who disagrees with us must be wrong.

Religion does more to promote hate than anything else ever did.

Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:45:37
I do not know ancient Egyptian laws, nor Druids or Saxons. A lie means to mislead someone deliberately.
OK, so it's not a deliberate lie directly.
The lie is implicit; you come here and preach and that suggests that  you are some sort of authority; but you are not.

It hardly matters.
This still stands.

Why should we trust anything else you say?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:47:38
Not all Christian countries held witch hunts. Hungary banned them.
So these people who deliberately failed to do what the Bible told them are "Christian".
By what definition?
As I said, the gospel makes it clear what Christ said about it; they must follow the old laws.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:48:56
it is in them that we gradually became enlightened.
It is by opposing the teachings of the church that we became enlightened.
We stopped slave trading, because we rejected the bible.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 14:50:51
them that we gradually became enlightened. Not Mars or Woden...
That rather misses the point.
You seem to have realised that Mars and Woden do not bring enlightenment.
How long before you see that the same is true of Jesus?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Europan Ocean on 27/03/2021 15:17:30
I see you exactly disagree with me, and plainly don't accept my typing in response to you. I will have to inquire about church history and find the source of statistics on abortion, the 42% of deaths being by abortions. To me denying that is like thinking the Nazis were the right cause in WW2 at the time it started.

I am sure that even your enlightenment Bored Chemist, would not be, without Christ Jesus. People who reject the loss of truth in the Catholic church and who have the faith are protestants. They did get things wrong, and change was gradual, with free thought.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/03/2021 15:29:58
find the source of statistics on abortion, the 42% of deaths being by abortions.
Don't bother.
More  deaths were caused by births.

I see you exactly disagree with me,
That's not got a lot to do with you, but it is to do with the evidence.


To me denying that is like thinking the Nazis were the right cause in WW2 at the time it started.
Then you simply do not understand that 42 is less than 58.
You should work on that before talking about Nazis.

I am sure that
Yes, you are sure, but you have no evidence.
That rather proves my point.
Religion makes people sure of things when there is no reason to be sure.

It all too often makes people so sure that they are right that they will kill for their beliefs, rather than checking on whether those beliefs have any real foundation.
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 29/03/2021 23:09:43
What caused peace and prosperity since the end of World War II, in1945, was the invention of nuclear weapons.
These weapons scared us so much, that we daren't start World War III.  Even though we really wanted to.

And if weren't for nuclear weapons, we'd have had World Wars IV and V by now.  And getting ready for World War VI.
Let's face it - we humans like fighting wars.  You can't deny it.  All history shows it to be true.

Only the H-bomb is holding us back.  How much longer can it restrain us, do you think?



If ISIS or Al Qaeda got access to the H bomb, do you think they can restrain themselves from using it?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: alancalverd on 30/03/2021 00:21:00
And there's the problem. Once-great nations have armed themselves at great expense with a weapon for fighting the last war, not the next one.

The scenario I think worth considering is the explosion of a fuel-air bomb (much easier to make than a nuke) over Birmingham on a sunny Saturday. Utter pandemonium, thousands of deaths on the roads, collapse of effective government. Who do we nuke in retribution?

Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: alancalverd on 30/03/2021 00:28:48
At least 30% of human pregnancies abort spontaneously. If you count those as "deaths", you are most of the way to 42% without having to invoke intent. So what?
Title: Re: How possible is my theory on God/supernatural belief?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 30/03/2021 03:49:26

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