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  4. How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
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How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?

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Offline remotemass (OP)

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How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« on: 29/11/2022 06:22:39 »
I wonder how much water can drip from the surface of thin vertical sheets of plastic filled with alcohol (or some other liquid with low freezing point) after cooling them down in a vertical freezer. How much of the volume of the freezer per second? Also, what would be the ideal vertical sheet thickness of them?
« Last Edit: 29/11/2022 08:36:07 by Colin2B »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« Reply #1 on: 29/11/2022 08:38:14 »
None, because it would freeze.
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Offline remotemass (OP)

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Re: How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« Reply #2 on: 29/11/2022 13:58:59 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/11/2022 08:38:14
None, because it would freeze.

And then melt down and drip down, no? Or would it all evaporate? Even if there was no wind around them?!
One thing is for sure, in the winter some water condensates on the inside of the windows... right?
If you get enough water from condensation of air around you will eventually be able to collect some.
For a freezer of one meter cube with sheets inside of one meter square of surface and one milimiter of thickness filled with alcohol you would get a total surface pf: "2 sides per sheet" x "1 square meter" x 1000 sheets = 2000 square meters. That must equate to some nice amount water...Am I missing something here?!

- remotemass

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« Reply #3 on: 29/11/2022 18:00:36 »
Quote from: remotemass on 29/11/2022 13:58:59
And then melt down
Not on "the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets".

Are you trying to re-invent this sort of thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumidifier

Anyway, if the dew point of the air is below 0C then you will have 2 problems.
The water will freeze if the condensers are cold to take water from the air.
That gives you an issue with ice building up + stopping the air flow and also you need to extract the heat of fusion as well as condensation so you will get a lot less water.
But most places aren't that dry.
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Offline remotemass (OP)

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Re: How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« Reply #4 on: 29/11/2022 18:59:35 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 29/11/2022 18:00:36
Quote from: remotemass on 29/11/2022 13:58:59
And then melt down
Not on "the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets".

Are you trying to re-invent this sort of thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumidifier

Anyway, if the dew point of the air is below 0C then you will have 2 problems.
The water will freeze if the condensers are cold to take water from the air.
That gives you an issue with ice building up + stopping the air flow and also you need to extract the heat of fusion as well as condensation so you will get a lot less water.
But most places aren't that dry.

All very well, but that isn't really an answer to my question.
I asked "how much water?" so using international units I was expecting an answer in "Liters".

Let's say for the average yearly temperature in London and average humidity, which accordding to this website https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/england/london
is aproximately 11 ºC.of temperature and 80% Relative Humidity.
For that temperature and humidity how much liters of water would you get from the the freezer of one cubic meter with those thin sheets of 1 mm, as it was described? Let's say that you cool down the sheels with 1 mm of thickness with alcohol, as described, to: - MINUS 11º C and let them reach the equilibrium temperature with the surrounding air. How much liters you get?

That is my question? It can certainly be found out?
I also asked the ideal thickness of the filled sheets... but let's focus at least on the former.

- remotemass
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« Reply #5 on: 29/11/2022 22:18:06 »
Quote from: remotemass on 29/11/2022 18:59:35
I was expecting an answer in "Liters".
Do you mean litres?
OK
Quote from: remotemass on 29/11/2022 06:22:39
I wonder how much water can drip from the surface of thin vertical sheets of plastic filled with alcohol (or some other liquid with low freezing point) after cooling them down in a vertical freezer.
3 litres


Did that answer actually help you?
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Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: How much water can drip from the surface of very cold thin vertical sheets?
« Reply #6 on: 29/11/2022 22:41:20 »
If the plastic was thick enough that it didn't quite freeze, then it's difficult to say.

You'd get a boundary layer (or two) forming due to viscosity, where there was low temperature and/or low absolute humidity. That boundary layer would slow down the rate of condensation because it would act as a thermal and vapor insulator.

To reduce its thickness you would want the air to go as fast as possible past it because that would thin it by scrubbing away the top layer. If you didn't use a fan, then natural convection would thin it- the cooled air would fall past it. But it would be a lot thinner if you used active fan cooling.
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