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General Science => General Science => Topic started by: talanum1 on 14/04/2021 20:54:38

Title: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: talanum1 on 14/04/2021 20:54:38
What does the following mean (from a list of B+ decay modes):

[K-pi+]DK+?
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2021 22:46:09
It may help if you include a reference.
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: talanum1 on 15/04/2021 08:41:08
The reference is:

https://pdg.lbl.gov/2015/listings/rpp2015-list-B-plus-minus.pdf
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Zer0 on 24/05/2021 19:59:31
🙄
Spam!
😏

P.S. - Folks who think they're as smart as Miller...are Destined to end up in the Mods Griller!
🍖
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: charles1948 on 24/05/2021 20:47:23
Isn't the fundamental problem with Particle Physics, this.

No-one knows whether Particles actually exist, as discrete  physical " objects"

Or whether all so-called Particles, are only illusory manifestations.  Caused by regular fluctuations in what is really a continuous spectrum of Energy.

In something like, the way we could we look at the sea.  The sea is a continuous area, or "spectrum" of Water. Which is usually flat.

But sometimes this water is made to "fluctuate" and produce "Waves"

These "Waves" look physical different. In the sense that the Waves are tall, whereas the sea-water is flat.

But could anyone suggest that the "Waves" are a discrete and fundamentally different thing from sea-water?



Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: alancalverd on 24/05/2021 21:57:38
If you can measure the mass and charge of a something, and it is different from something else, it is normal to assume that it exists as a discrete object. You might consider a brick to be a fluctuation in the continuum of elvish gossamer, but you could be detained for your own safety if you tried to convince anyone else.
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: charles1948 on 24/05/2021 23:01:37
If you can measure the mass and charge of a something, and it is different from something else, it is normal to assume that it exists as a discrete object. You might consider a brick to be a fluctuation in the continuum of elvish gossamer, but you could be detained for your own safety if you tried to convince anyone else.

The thing about a brick, though, is that you can pick it up in your hand. Look at it. See the varying colours in its surface.  Then juggle it in your hand, to gauge its weight. Run your fingers across it, to sense the texture and corrugations in its surface..  Smell it, and even, if you so desire, lick it.

All this provides a wealth of evidence. To  convince you that the brick is a real, solid object. 

But, by contrast, suppose you go to particle physics.  And contemplate the supposed "Higg's Boson"
This is supposed to be as real as a brick.

Yet, didn't the HB's "discovery " rely entirely on the statistical analysis of numerical meter-readings..  Not even from any physical traces caused by its transit through a Bubble Chamber.

Doesn't that seem a bit, to say the least, shaky?

Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: evan_au on 24/05/2021 23:14:43
Quote from: charles1948
The thing about a brick, though, is that you can pick it up in your hand. Look at it.
Yes, a brick lasts longer than a Muon (or a person).
- A human body will typically decay in a decade or so (in a temperate climate).
- Give the brick a million years of erosion by water, wind and sand, and the brick will decay to clay.

The fact of entropy and decay does not make the brick (or the person, or the Muon) any less real

If you accelerate the Muon up to almost the speed of light, you can preserve them a lot longer (due to time dilation), so you can study them more easily...
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: charles1948 on 24/05/2021 23:58:03
Quote from: charles1948
The thing about a brick, though, is that you can pick it up in your hand. Look at it.
Yes, a brick lasts longer than a Muon (or a person).
- A human body will typically decay in a decade or so (in a temperate climate).
- Give the brick a million years of erosion by water, wind and sand, and the brick will decay to clay.

The fact of entropy and decay does not make the brick (or the person, or the Muon) any less real

If you accelerate the Muon up to almost the speed of light, you can preserve them a lot longer (due to time dilation), so you can study them more easily...

Thanks Evan.  You make interesting points. I don't believe the Higg's Boson actually exists though! Do you?

I
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Kryptid on 25/05/2021 06:30:56
Doesn't that seem a bit, to say the least, shaky?

What I find "shaky" is the supposal that one who is not a particle physicist has a better understanding of particle physics than actual particle physicists do. Those experiments are carefully designed based on the known behavior of particles and the predicted behavior of the particles they are trying to detect. Those results are then reviewed by other scientists who also understand those things. Multiple tests and investigations are done to rule out system malfunctions or noise. This ain't just a guess on the part of physicists. They know what they are doing (and you can too, if you study it enough).

I don't believe the Higg's Boson actually exists though!

I think Neil deGrasse Tyson has a quote for that.
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/05/2021 08:50:54
I don't believe the Higg's Boson actually exists though!
How are we meant to distinguish that from trolling?
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: evan_au on 25/05/2021 10:35:27
Quote from: charles1948
I don't believe the Higg's Boson actually exists though!
Then you would be making a massive underestimate,..

Quote from: Kryptid
I think Neil deGrasse Tyson has a quote for that.
Do tell! Google couldn't (in the first couple of matches)...
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Kryptid on 25/05/2021 14:31:01
Do tell! Google couldn't (in the first couple of matches)...

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: charles1948 on 25/05/2021 17:50:32
I don't believe the Higg's Boson actually exists though!
How are we meant to distinguish that from trolling?

Was Galileo trolling, when he dared propose that the prized epicycles required by 17th-century geocentric astronomy, didn't actually exist

The Pope seems to have thought so, and got Galileo banged up under house-arrest for life.

That couldn't happen today.  Or, could it?  Are there Popes on here?
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/05/2021 18:04:15
Was Galileo trolling,
No, he had evidence.

  Are there Popes on here?
Are you saying you really don't know the difference between science and religion, or are you trolling?
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Colin2B on 25/05/2021 18:20:30
Quote from: charles1948
The thing about a brick, though, is that you can pick it up in your hand. Look at it.
...............

Thanks Evan.  You make interesting points. I don't believe the Higg's Boson actually exists though! Do you?
The search for the Higgs Boson is similar to the discovery of Neptune.
There were some discrepancies in the orbits of the outer planets that if correct would throw into question Newton’s laws of gravitation. An astronomer calculated that it could be explained by another planet and calculated where it should be. Observatories looked at that location and confirmed it was there.

You remind me of the people who would not believe in bacteria or viruses, because they couldn’t see them.

I suppose you don’t believe tornadoes are real either; after all, they are only fluctuations of the air so they can’t be ‘real’ can they.

I suggest as well that you learn something about bubble chambers. You keep quoting them but obviously don’t know how they work. If you did you would realise why it is ridiculous to keep quoting them.

Are there Popes on here?
Yes, you are one.
The Pope was trolling Galileo.
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Kryptid on 25/05/2021 21:19:32
Was Galileo trolling, when he dared propose that the prized epicycles required by 17th-century geocentric astronomy, didn't actually exist

If you have comparable evidence on par with that of Galileo that the Higgs boson doesn't exist, please post it. Arguments from incredulity don't count.
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Zer0 on 27/05/2021 15:36:05
@charles1948


Hello Charles!

Previously i thought your posts were  quite bent towards antiscientific promulgation and also evoked potential seeding of conspiracy theories.
(Perhaps, i still Think the same)
🤔

But Now...as i see the aftereffects of the Quality of content(information) your Words/Statements/Doubts bring out or receive in Response... I'm quite Pleased!
😇

Gotta say, very helpful towards a layperson who might have similar doubts but might not have the courage to speak up or speak out.
👍

I feel by constantly suspecting & doubting Scientific Methodologies, works out in directly proportional manners, thereby making it Alot more Stronger & Alot more Credible.
👌




P.S. - Please, keep up the Good Work!
✌️
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: Colin2B on 27/05/2021 15:43:39

P.S. - Please, keep up the Good Work!
✌️

Do not encourage trolling
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: jeffreyH on 30/05/2021 17:51:41
Dear Chas, may I call you Chas? Well, anyway, you are made up of particles. Do you exist? Maybe you are just an illusory fluctuation. In which case, you can easily be ignored.
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: charles1948 on 30/05/2021 18:04:17
Dear Chas, may I call you Chas? Well, anyway, you are made up of particles. Do you exist? Maybe you are just an illusory fluctuation. In which case, you can easily be ignored.

Dear Jeff, we are all temporary fluctuations in the eternal Universe.  In a million years' time, we'll all be forgotten.

Unless we've written a book, which might be preserved and read by our remote descendants, to ponder over if they wish.

Have you written a book? Cheers, Chas
Title: Re: What does the following mean (Particle Physics question)?
Post by: jeffreyH on 30/05/2021 20:12:01
Dear Chas, I doubt that many folks these days have read "Horse-Hoeing Husbandry" by Jethro Tull. Although many will remember the ditties by the band of the same name. It all depends upon the durability of the message. How durable is your message?