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We have found a special hedonic hotspot that is crucial for reward 'liking' and 'wanting' (and codes reward learning too). The opioid hedonic hotspot is shown in red above. It works together with another hedonic hotspot in the more famous nucleus accumbens to generate pleasure 'liking'.‘Liking’ and ‘wanting’ food rewards: Brain substrates and roles in eating disordersKent C. Berridge 2009 Mar 29.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2717031/ [nofollow]
Experiment (Survey)I will present to you the experiment (survey) to be performed that would support my theory of an objective good and bad. What I am trying to do here with this whole discussion is to establish an objective good and bad (our emotions). I am trying to somehow make this work. To do that, then that would require some support for my theory. This is my theory worth sharing and discussing regardless of your objections such as that this idea of mine is nonsense. Many ideas were deemed as nonsense at the time. But, sure enough, they ended up being true. I have had emotional trauma in my life and these were such horrible states of mind that they cannot possibly be a matter of my way of looking at them. Words themselves cannot possibly hold such horrible power. It has to be the emotions themselves that hold the objectively beautiful power (positive emotions) and the objectively horrible power (negative emotions).But continuing on here and getting to the point, an experiment (survey) would support my theory. I will now present it to you:If a person loved a feeling of misery or hated a certain positive emotion, then he would be having a subjective negative thought in regards to an objectively positive (good) emotion and he would be having a subjective positive thought in regards to an objectively negative (bad) emotion. You can have subjective judgments in regards to objective things. You can judge your positive emotions (which are objective wanting and liking) as not being any form of wanting and liking. But said judgment would be false. Go ask as much people as you can as to whether they think that their positive emotions are an objective wanting and liking.I bet they would tell you "no" and that they instead have their own personal wants and likes. If this survey were to be conducted and most people were to say "no," then this would clearly indicate that people are having false judgments in regards to their emotions. I said earlier that our positive emotions are an objective form of wanting and liking. There is a study on this that I will quote out to you right now:QuoteWe have found a special hedonic hotspot that is crucial for reward 'liking' and 'wanting' (and codes reward learning too). The opioid hedonic hotspot is shown in red above. It works together with another hedonic hotspot in the more famous nucleus accumbens to generate pleasure 'liking'.‘Liking’ and ‘wanting’ food rewards: Brain substrates and roles in eating disordersKent C. Berridge 2009 Mar 29.(can't post the link) It just really gets to me that people are not in touch with their emotions. They instead dismiss them. If so many people are going to say that their positive emotions are not any form of wanting and liking for them, then it is quite obvious to me that they are also denying the fact that they are the inner light to our lives as well. According to my logical argument, a positive thought (good value judgment) simply does not line up with a negative emotion and neither does a negative thought (bad value judgment) line up with a positive emotion. That is why subjective good value judgments have to reflect an objective good (our positive emotions) while a subjective bad value judgment would have to reflect an objective bad (our negative emotions). This survey might not prove my theory, but it would at least be a starting point.Now, I know that many people won't take a liking to my spiritual analogy, but I am just going to use it anyway. If god existed, then his light would be sheer objective goodness. There are many people who would judge god as something horrible. Their judgments would be wrong. Even if they had the light of god flowing through their conscious being, they could still judge it as something bad due to their ignorance and lack of enlightenment to the real truth. When I feel the most profoundly beautiful positive emotion from nature or from a song, then I can clearly tell that this is a form of beauty that goes beyond words (value judgments). It is NOT just my way of looking at these emotions and judging them as beautiful. That also applies to all the horrible misery and emotional trauma I've had as well. These were literally horrible states of mind. So, what I mean by an objective good and bad would not be a concept or idea such as that it is a bad thing to harm someone. Rather, I mean that good and bad are the actual emotions themselves. When you are in a positive emotional state such as feeling a profound joy from nature, then that state is literally sheer goodness itself. It's as though the light of god and all of its sheer objective goodness has engulfed your conscious being. Objective goodness would be the same thing as objective wanting and liking (our positive emotions). So, they would be synonymous. Tones And ExpressionsIf you were to witness a baby or a child, then this child would display positive tones and expressions if he were to feel a positive emotion. Likewise, he would display negative tones and expressions if he felt a negative emotion such as anger or fear. He would display angry tones/expressions as well as fearful ones. However, there are a few exceptions since people can actually display negative tones/expressions when feeling a positive emotion and they can display positive ones when feeling a negative emotion. But the point I am trying to make here is that our brains are wired by default to respond to positive emotions with positive tones and expressions and to respond to negative emotions with negative tones and expressions. This means that there is some reflection going on here. These positive tones and expressions would have to reflect the inherent positive nature of our positive emotions. The same applies to our negative emotions. This would also have to mean that positive thoughts reflect positive emotions and negative thoughts reflect negative emotions. It's no different than the objective wanting and liking (our positive emotions). People tend to respond to these emotions in wanting and liking ways. These wanting and liking expressions, thoughts, and tones reflect the inherent wanting and liking characteristics of our positive emotions. From here, it would follow that if people display thoughts, tones, and expressions that indicate their lives are good, beautiful, and worth living while having positive feelings of excitement or joy, that this would also reflect the inherent goodness and beauty of our positive emotions. The same rule applies to negative emotions.
We have found a special hedonic hotspot that is crucial for reward 'liking' and 'wanting' (and codes reward learning too). The opioid hedonic hotspot is shown in red above. It works together with another hedonic hotspot in the more famous nucleus accumbens to generate pleasure 'liking'.‘Liking’ and ‘wanting’ food rewards: Brain substrates and roles in eating disordersKent C. Berridge 2009 Mar 29.(can't post the link)
Thank you very much. Hopefully, by having this discussion, some concepts can be cleared up.
If a person loved a feeling of misery
Their own feeling of misery.
]If a person loved a feeling of misery or hated a certain positive emotion, then he would be having a subjective negative thought in regards to an objectively positive (good) emotion and he would be having a subjective positive thought in regards to an objectively negative (bad) emotion. You can have subjective judgments in regards to objective things.
]If a person loved a feeling of misery they would be having a subjective positive thought in regards to an objectively negative (bad) emotion. If a person hated a certain positive emotion, then he would be having a subjective negative thought in regards to an objectively positive (good) emotion. You can have subjective judgements in regards to objective things.
Go ask as much people as you can as to whether they think that their positive emotions are an objective wanting and liking.I bet they would tell you "no" and that they instead have their own personal wants and likes
Moving on QuoteGo ask as much people as you can as to whether they think that their positive emotions are an objective wanting and liking.I bet they would tell you "no" and that they instead have their own personal wants and likesI think you meant to say :Go ask as many people as you can as to whether they think that their positive emotions are a subjective wanting and liking or their own personal wants and likes?
But that's not what I mean when I say that our emotions are objectively good and bad. You treat objective good and bad as concepts/ideas. But I treat them as the actual emotions themselves. It would be like the light of god. The light of god is sheer objective goodness itself. Not in the sense of it being good from a conceptual point of view such as saying that god is objectively good since he helps humanity. Rather, the goodness itself is the life force of god itself. Remember, this is just a spiritual analogy I am giving to make my point clear. Our positive emotions would be like that life force of god taking on the form of an emotional state. Thus, producing an emotional state that is sheer goodness itself which we call a positive emotion.Quote from: Thebox on 23/09/2017 01:25:34Moving on QuoteGo ask as much people as you can as to whether they think that their positive emotions are an objective wanting and liking.I bet they would tell you "no" and that they instead have their own personal wants and likesI think you meant to say :Go ask as many people as you can as to whether they think that their positive emotions are a subjective wanting and liking or their own personal wants and likes? That study I quoted said that positive emotions are an objective form of wanting and liking. For people to deny this means they are having false judgments regarding their positive emotions.
. You treat objective good and bad as concepts/ideas.
That study I quoted said that positive emotions are an objective form of wanting and liking. For people to deny this means they are having false judgements regarding their positive emotions.
When people read my whole theory, they might be confused as to what I am trying to do and where I am getting at. All I am saying here is that when I feel a positive emotion such as a profound feeling of joy and beauty, then that emotional state is literally goodness itself. It is not my way of looking at that emotion and judging it as good. This is a form of goodness that goes beyond any value judgment. Like I said, it would be an objective goodness. It wouldn't be an objective goodness from the point of view such as saying that positive emotions are good since they benefit our lives. Rather, this is a profoundly beautiful conscious state to be in that is literally goodness itself. That is all I can say here and that is my theory. Likewise, my horrible emotional traumas I've been through are literally the most horrible states to be in and it is not a matter of my value judgment. I simply do not agree with others who would say that it is a matter of my value judgment because, again, this is something so horrible that it goes beyond words. No words (value judgments) can possibly possess such horrible power.
If you are implying that my theory is just some made up story, then how would we put it to the test to discover evidence for it if there really is evidence out there for it? You might think that our emotions are nothing more than brain chemistry, but I think they are something far more. After all, don't you hear a lot of people say that, without emotions, then we would be nothing but machines? That being the case, then our emotions would have to be pure goodness and badness themselves since they are so vital and precious to our human existence.
Take note that my idea is going by a different model of the brain which treats emotions as something more than just brain chemistry. That model of the brain would be the model presented by Stuart Hameroff. So, rather than emotions being just brain chemistry, our brains would be transceivers that pick up on some sort of energy in this universe that puts us into this sheer good state we call a positive mood/emotion.
Yes, but it could work both ways. If emotions are still nothing more than brain chemistry, then they could still be objectively good and bad states of mind though.