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Once we accept the observation that nothing really falls in,
Why the science community is so eager to offer a theory before they clearly understand the observation?
Any theory must be base only on real OBSERVATION.
We all should avoid ourselves from any phantasy or logic that is based on wishful thinking.
From the first day that we observe the Universe, we have never ever observe any star as it falls into the SMBH.So, how long time is need for us to understand that the concept of falling stars is just incorrect?How many billion years we still need to wait and hope that gas is falling slowly or over time into the accretion disc while we don't see any?How could we force the SMBH to eat stars from outside while it refuses to eat even one single atom?
The options are irrelevant.
Therefore, before looking of other optional theories, we MUST accept the observation as is.
Why do you insist to limit the options for only two possibilities?
My mission was to show you that the current understanding of falling stars is just incorrect.I have fully accomplished this mission.Therefore, you have to take this mission seriously.
I fully agree with you that intuition by itself is not good enough.
However, if you disqualify my intuition, then you should also disqualify any other intuition that isn't based on real observation.
Therefore, it's the time for all of us to abandon the intuition of falling stars without real backup observation.
QuoteQuote from: Dave Lev on Today at 10:54:34My mission was to show you that the current understanding of falling stars is just incorrect.I have fully accomplished this mission.You just keep asking us to believe that things fall upwards.
Quote from: Dave Lev on Today at 10:54:34My mission was to show you that the current understanding of falling stars is just incorrect.
So, we can discount your intuition that stars fall up, but continue to accept the intuition that (as observed for lots of other things) stars fall down.
Please show details of that refusal.
We have shown stars falling in.You just keep ignoring it.
QuoteQuote from: Dave Lev on Today at 10:54:34Any theory must be base only on real OBSERVATION.It is based on real observations.
Quote from: Dave Lev on Today at 10:54:34Any theory must be base only on real OBSERVATION.
We can't directly observe anything that is happening at the subatomic level, for example. However, we know a lot about subatomic physics because we can infer what is happening indirectly with particle detectors. It's the same thing for black holes.
We've never observed a single atom undergo radioactive decay either. We don't have to in order to know that it happens. We can study the aftermath of that decay in order to deduce that it has indeed happened. It's the same thing with black holes eating stars.
And those observations are consistent with black holes eating material from stars.
Okay then, since you have said this, I'm going to remind you of it every time you claim that the jets are producing more gas than is coming from the star. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate (from reputable sources) that the jets are making more gas than the star is supplying. If you can't do that, then please don't bring it up any longer.
It's not intuition. It's based on real observations and our knowledge of the laws of physics. Black holes eating stars is the natural conclusion for these things.
So far, we didn't observe any star or gas cloud as it falls inwards into the SMBH accretion disc.you actually confirm it by your following message that we just can't see it:
So please - do we have any direct falling star observation or it is just study/assumption?
Where are those observations?
Please, can we agree that so far, we have never ever observed any star as it falls inwards?
Please, no study and not any kind of logic.
Can we also agree that we directly observe the outwards jet stream but we never directly observed any falling stars/gas cloud?
Therefore, it is the obligation of the science community to prove that the total falling stars/matter (which we have never observed) is bigger than the ejected jet stream that we clearly observe.
1. Real observation – Sorry, I have got lost. Do we have real observation for falling stars into the SMBH accretion disc or not?
If yes, please introduce it. If not, then please don't call it real observation.
2. Physics of law - The gravity physics of law is very clear. Without the observed jet stream, we could think that any atom from outside should fall inwards. However, as we clearly observe that the stream, and if you don't agree with my explanation about the SUF, would you kindly advise how could it be that this jet stream falls outwards at the speed of light without contradiction the Physics of law?
The jet stream is the ultimate evidence that things fall upwards at almost the speed of light.
Hence, I'm not just asking you to believe that things fall upwards. I demand you to accept the observation that things are moving outwards against the SMBH gravitational as they are connected to a speed light rocket.
In order to set that kind of upwards falling a Supper Ultra force (SUF) is needed.
Current models have it that the jets are produced by magnetic fields. Magnetic fields don't break the laws of physics. If you're going to claim that the magnetic field is able to prevent all matter that approaches the black hole from entering it, then you're going to need to demonstrate this with evidence.
Therefore, the SMF should be stronger than the SMBH gravity force at the disc.
Quote from: Dave Lev on 15/04/2023 06:45:11Therefore, the SMF should be stronger than the SMBH gravity force at the disc.No.There's no reason why it should.
it is possible to achieve the two contradicted spiral motions without breaking the law of physics or changing forces?
Do you understand that in a car crash the bits of debris are thrown in pretty much every direction?Why do you think that Quote from: Dave Lev on 15/04/2023 13:08:26 it is possible to achieve the two contradicted spiral motions without breaking the law of physics or changing forces?
Please, chose one of the following options:1. Spiral inwards - Any atom that falls inwards from outside, would spiral inwards due to the SMBH gravity force. As it gets to the inner side of the disc it would fall inwards and be eaten by the SMBH.In this case, nothing would be ejected outwards from the accretion disc2. Spiral outwards - Any Atom that gets to the inner side of the disc, would spiral outwards and be ejected into the jet stream.In this case, you need to explain how the atom gets directly into the inner side of the disc without crossing the disc itself and first spiral inwards.3. Spiral inwards & outwards - Can you please explain how it is possible to achieve the two contradicted spiral motions without breaking the law of physics or changing forces?4. Any other possibility?
We know that a black hole's magnetic field isn't too strong to allow matter to pass it. The magnetic field around the black hole in V404 Cygni has been measured as being about 500 gauss: https://www.space.com/39051-astronomers-measure-black-hole-magnetic-field.html
However, that's a relatively weak magnetic field in terms of what astrophysical objects can produce. Take the white dwarf component of the AM Herculis system. That star has a magnetic field strength between 10,000,000 and 100,000,000 gauss: https://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/A/AM_Herculis_star.html
However, matter is still able to pass from the other star and fall onto the white dwarf's surface. We know that this happens because the star is what is called a "cataclysmic variable". The star has outbursts caused by matter falling onto its surface. Since we know that even a field of millions of gauss can't stop the gas, then a field of only 500 gauss isn't going to do it either.
However, there is no possibility for matter to fall in and then fall out.
This is just a white dwarf.Multiply its mass by one billion and we might get a SMBH/Quasar with magnetic field strength that is stronger by one billion.
BH/SMBH aren't the same
Multiply its mass by one billion and we might get a SMBH/Quasar with magnetic field strength that is stronger by one billion.