Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: stewie2112 on 24/08/2010 03:13:27
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This may sound really dumb but my wife and I have never had kids. We have for the last 11 years had cats. Unfortunatly this past July one of our cats passed away. He was always by my side and was my best friend in the world. It bothers me that I can't take care of him any longer and I am concerned about his well being. Anyways since my boy passed I have been thinking of what death might be like and was wondering if perhaps time would not be a factor. We live in Spacetime and as such all we know, all we have learned, is in terms of spacetime. My question is, Would it be possible for those who die to be frozen in time? It seems to me that when you die the is no physical part of you that leaves the body. So if there is anything it must be energy. Since that energy travels at the speed of light, could it be possible that time would stop for that individual? Could it be that our entire existance all emerge from life at almost the same moment? From the earliest living organism to our future selves? I don't know if anyone on here has ever considerd anything of this nature but since I'm not that smart of a person I would love to hear someones inteligent thoughts on this matter.
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Hi Stewie,
Thanks for your post, I am not so sure I understand your reasoning although I would be more than happy to give my input. In terms of science, after death the body decomposes and that includes everything organs,skin and brain. The only thing that I think would be debatable is if the conscience remains and if this can subtend our physical world, unfortunately there is no (real) evidence for this. However another issue is even understanding "conciseness" and if this truly is just chemical reactions or does it present something more profound. I think physics at its current state is ill equipped to clarify any of these issues, and its just down to ones individual oppinion... or faith.
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Murchie, I'm not a spelling nerd (I make plenty of mistakes myself) but there were two instances where I had trouble knowing what you meant :-) - I suspect you meant "conciousness" rather than "conscience" or "conciseness".
Stewie, from a science perspective when we die our brain ceases to function and all of the software and firmware is destroyed. There can be elements of "yourself" in the genes of your close relations and in the wider population, and in the "information" in the form of knowledge or influence that you have had on others throughout your life. Anything else, such as an immortal soul, is outside of science and a matter of belief.
The universe of spacetime may also be considered as a whole so that time is an ever-present dimension. In this case the period of one's life is an ever existing line in this 4-d space. Personally, I don't get a lot of comfort from that but I have heard of some that do. I rather take the view that there is no magic here; we simply die and our existence ceases.
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Heh Gramam, thanks for that I am pretty clumsy when it comes to typing.. although I hope you got the jist...
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Is your cat's imprint still in your thoughts?
Can we say that the cat left (permanently exited) your physical presents and took an image form, in your own mind, using your minds energy ?
Just saying indirectly and differently that energy took something to a different form of sorts.
I believe that 'Time' is a man made concept no physical aspect can touch it. The effects of time can be sensed.
It is a way to keep track, awareness of period of events. Used to synchronize the particular planning for particular events and the period of duration. Helps in measuring speed and acceleration too.
Once the conscience mind dies the awareness and personality exhibited by the mind's holder is as still as a stone on the ground.
The proof of any awareness is slim to none, the need for speed is gone...
Time can be said to be frozen the moment awareness has expired, but since awareness does not exist neither does the concept of time, at death.
For that matter units of any measurement is gone also, relative to that individual's dead mind.
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Stewie, I'm sorry for your loss - Cat's are great & it's heartbreaking when they die.
I would like to suggest that this thread is moved to 'New theories' as I think this would be a better place to continue your discussion (MODS?).
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Stewie, I'm sorry for your loss - Cat's are great & it's heartbreaking when they die.
I would like to suggest that this thread is moved to 'New theories' as I think this would be a better place to continue your discussion (MODS?).
If Stewie agrees to have his post moved, I'm happy to do so. If not, you're always free to start a new topic in the New Theories section to discuss ideas that have been brought up here.
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Sure, by all means, I have just joined this forum and should have checked the thread topics more carefully. So feel free to move it.
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Done. Since it's in New Theories now, feel free to discuss more speculative ideas.
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My question is, Would it be possible for those who die to be frozen in time? It seems to me that when you die the is no physical part of you that leaves the body. So if there is anything it must be energy. Since that energy travels at the speed of light, could it be possible that time would stop for that individual?
I think your idea may have come about through a confusion about the relative passing of time between two observers when one is travelling close to the speed of light. I think the theory goes that as our observer approaches the light-speed the other person would observe their actions slowing to a standstill (may have got that the wrong way round). Be aware though that this only applies to matter objects.
Your question made me think about the Sci-fi notion of energy beings (Although not what you're asking I think it might be relevant).
Putting aside supernatural 'forces' for a moment - in our brains we require nerve pulses to travel from one material point to another (in their trillions) for what we think of a awareness to occur.
If a creature existed that had no matter for electrons (or other energy particles) to move between, then how would thoughts take place?
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Is Space and Time one thing? When we die to me there would be a 50/50 chance of there being nothing or, if there is something, since it obviously is not in our space then it cannot be in our time either. Perhaps that is why we don't remember anything before our birth. Becuase memory needs time. If there is anything like a spirit then if it did somehow "jetison" the corpse at the speed of light then wouldn't it to us look like nothing has happened when a creature died becuase that energy is frozen becuase of its speed relative to us. And if it was the speed of light then wouldn't the lives of those left behind just whiz by like it was a blink of an eye to the creature dying?
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When we die, to me, there would be a 50/50 chance of there being nothing or, if there is something, since it obviously is not in our space then it cannot be in our time either.
I always find it odd when people have a 'could-be-true' view of 'the afterlife' that some people call an agnostic view.
I can more easily get my head round those who take a spiritual existence following physical death completely on faith.
Ironically, one true if oft mistaken meaning of the word agnosticism is that the workings of the supernatural are unknowable by the mortal mind (although to be fair there are several other translations also).
I like to observe that you can say 50/50 about the something or nothing of an afterlife, but in the next breath express how "obvious" it is that whatever the something might be it could possibly inhabit our spacial dimensions (or time).
Why? For all we know (once we start accepting things we have no evidence for) we might be whisked away by who-knows-what at the point of our human deaths (at superluminal speeds) to a distant galaxy for some unimagined existence.
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Well I feel that faith and one's religion is more of a guide as to how one should LIVE. Most religions are filled up with stories of honorable people that we can learn from and try to emulate in life. I'm not so sure to be Agnostic one would have to say that God or heaven is unknowable, rather uninvolved. What I was just wondering though is if Space and, more importantly, time is just some kind of illusion that clouds us from some other existance. Becuase the two biggest things that people wonder about is Where is Heaven? And Will I live forever in Heaven? It just doesnt make sense to live "forever" in terms of the way we pervcieve time. That is why I think that it must be a totally seperate thing.
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Can consciousness exist on its own? Nice question, with as many answers as believers. Because that's all we can do here, as we're discussing death. I would expect something to exist after death, but I wouldn't expect it to be related to anything we can think up. No Christian, Mohammedan etc, etc heaven waiting. Maybe some sort of matrix though that we all are connected in, although not as individuals but as an 'idea' or 'gestalt' possibly?