[alancalverd]

I've asserted that the universal terminal goal is to extend the existence of consciousness into the future. Tell me where, or in what situation this terminal goal is not applicable.

Mutual Assured Destruction is the prime example, but there are plenty of smaller-scale zealots who consider that murdering infidels and dying in the process, is the ultimate moral duty of an otherwise rational human. 

As they claim to be divinely inspired, you can't disprove their logic.

And I'm not sure that 99.999999999% of the universe cares a damn about whatever you think consciousness might be.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

As they claim to be divinely inspired, you can't disprove their logic.

Anthropic principle due to natural selection will determine who will exist in the future, who will go extinct.

[alancalverd]

Natural selection and the anthropic principle are mutually exclusive. Like other mammals, homo sapiens is regarded by viruses, fungi and bacteria as nothing more than a vehicle and source of food.

But if we accept your premise, then either your universal terminal goal is consistent with natural selection, or it is invalid. Natural selection tends towards a fascist morality in which the weak are eliminated, or a buddhist view that illness and misfortune are part of the Grand Scheme of Things, which don't fit with conventional western moral imperatives to heal the sick and support the weak.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Natural selection and the anthropic principle are mutually exclusive. Like other mammals, homo sapiens is regarded by viruses, fungi and bacteria as nothing more than a vehicle and source of food.

anthropic principle emerges from natural selection.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Mutual Assured Destruction is the prime example, but there are plenty of smaller-scale zealots who consider that murdering infidels and dying in the process, is the ultimate moral duty of an otherwise rational human.

Your enemies are convinced that you are a threat to their survival. You can try to convince them that you are not. Or try to convince them that they can't win.
Either way, they will respond by choosing actions which they think will serve their interests best.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

As they claim to be divinely inspired, you can't disprove their logic.

But you can show that their beliefs are contradicted by observational facts.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

And I'm not sure that 99.999999999% of the universe cares a damn about whatever you think consciousness might be.

Most conscious entities care about their own survival, or some better version of themselves. Those who don't care would soon go extinct and their opinions won't matter anymore.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Like other mammals, homo sapiens is regarded by viruses, fungi and bacteria as nothing more than a vehicle and source of food.

From the perspective of our own cells and organelles, we are also  vehicle and source of food. And we depend on them for our own existence, at least for now.

I've addressed this issue in my other thread. I'm planning to make a video summarizing it.

[alancalverd]

Most conscious entities care about their own survival,

But as far as we know, conscious entities comprise less than 0.00000000001% of the mass of the universe, if that.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Most conscious entities care about their own survival,

But as far as we know, conscious entities comprise less than 0.00000000001% of the mass of the universe, if that.

How do you calculate that? If you drink 1 liter of water, how much of it will become part of you and be conscious?

[alancalverd]

You can estimate the mass of known conscious entities - it's not more than the total biomass of this planet, about 6 x 10¹¹ tonnes.

You can also estimate the mass of the observable universe, about 10⁵⁷ tonnes.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

You can estimate the mass of known conscious entities - it's not more than the total biomass of this planet, about 6 x 10¹¹ tonnes.

You can also estimate the mass of the observable universe, about 10⁵⁷ tonnes.

Did you include human hairs and bones as biomass?
Do you include supercomputers and smart phones as part of human consciousness?

Unconscious entities don't care about anything. Conscious entities care about their existence.

[alancalverd]

1. Yes
2. No

as long as 10⁵⁷ >> 10¹¹ I think we can safely ignore consciousness as a significant element of the observable universe.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

1. Yes
2. No

as long as 10⁵⁷ >> 10¹¹ I think we can safely ignore consciousness as a significant element of the observable universe.

You can ignore what's important for future conscious entities. But your view will be ignored by them when their time has come and yours has passed.

[alancalverd]

But their existence depends on our actions!

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

But their existence depends on our actions!

Some of our actions are necessary for their existence. Some others are detrimental for them. Some others don't really matter.
They will call those actions moral, immoral, and amoral actions, respectively.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

1. Yes
2. No

as long as 1057 >> 1011 I think we can safely ignore consciousness as a significant element of the observable universe.

What's your reason for your answers?

No. We are not safe to ignore consciousness found in the observable universe.

[alancalverd]

Mathematics.

The development or extinction of consciousness (whatever that is) may matter to you, but not to the Crab Nebula. Most of the universe got on pretty well without it for 10 billion years, and is utterly unaware of it even now.

One of the first lessons you learn in science is that nature is wholly indifferent to what you, Pol Pot, or Mother Teresa thinks.

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

Mathematics.

The development or extinction of consciousness (whatever that is) may matter to you, but not to the Crab Nebula. Most of the universe got on pretty well without it for 10 billion years, and is utterly unaware of it even now.

One of the first lessons you learn in science is that nature is wholly indifferent to what you, Pol Pot, or Mother Teresa thinks.

What makes you think that hair and bones are part of consciousness while supercomputers and smart phones are not?

What about water that humans drink?

[hamdani yusuf (OP)]

I summarized my thoughts on consciousness in another thread.

here it is.
Defining consciousness as the core concept in the universal terminal goal using only the requirements from the phrase and some basic knowledge of computational process.