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the cross as the cap on the Bible narrative
power over death
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 11/08/2020 13:39:25Religion and better, spirituality, puts things in perspective better, since even atheists have a sense of the supernatural and are fascinated by it in the cinemas. I mean sound Christian teaching.Don't try to tell people that atheists don't have perspective or what they think and feel.It makes you look like a spiteful liar or an idiot.Can you let us know what you think is actually supernatural?There is no such thing as "sound Christian teaching" since even the Christians fight over it.Quote from: Europan Ocean on 11/08/2020 16:40:58There is a sound logic to the ideas the fair and good Christian teaching.There is sound logic to the ideas of fairness and goodness.The Christians would do well to learn about them, rather than preaching hate and xenophobia.
Religion and better, spirituality, puts things in perspective better, since even atheists have a sense of the supernatural and are fascinated by it in the cinemas. I mean sound Christian teaching.
There is a sound logic to the ideas the fair and good Christian teaching.
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 11/08/2020 16:40:58the cross as the cap on the Bible narrative After thousands of years of war, famine, slavery and all the other stuff, the Jews were occupied by the Romans who tortured a revolutionary rabbi to death to please the religious establishment. Not a cap on the narrative, just another sordid chapter in the unending tale of misery caused by religion and politics.Quotepower over death You jest, surely. There are cemeteries full of dead christians, some of whom were killed by others of the same faith.
The Christians do not die spiritually after they leave their bodies. And death is overcome, there will be a resurrection.
The 20th century was secular showing that without much religion influencing things and with secular government still there was war and plague and famine.
Supernatural, and fiction. X files, and Harry Potter... There are many such films and TV shows. Also the idea of there being humanoid aliens that have matching DNA with ours.
Christians now fight over teaching in debate.
Which Christians today, long after the enlightenment practice hate and xenophobia?
Christians often do promote the fair and the good.
Atheists, what bearings do they have in the supernatural? Powers of unseen entities? Do they come and go? What do they want with you? What is supernatural malevolence? Do any spirits without bodies have a good nature? Can they come into a person and afflict them?
Can you let us know what you think is actually supernatural?
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 12/08/2020 07:54:35Supernatural, and fiction. X files, and Harry Potter... There are many such films and TV shows. Also the idea of there being humanoid aliens that have matching DNA with ours.So, all that made up stuff that we recognise isn't actually true.It's entertaining, possibly, at some level, educational, but that's about all.Quote from: Europan Ocean on 12/08/2020 07:54:35Christians now fight over teaching in debate.That's just not true.I was woken up one morning by this. (specifically, the Paddington one.)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_of_Paddington_and_Victoria_stationsAnd this one was a few hundred yards from my officehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Staples_Corner_bombingThey weren't a "debate"; they were Christians fighting and killing eachother.Quote from: Europan Ocean on 12/08/2020 07:54:35Which Christians today, long after the enlightenment practice hate and xenophobia? The ones condemning homosexuality, for a start.But we can add the ones that don't accept women into the priesthood if that helps.Did you somehow think I was going to have any difficulty answering that question?Were you blind to the actions of Christians, today, because you can't accept that the faith is essentially evil?Quote from: Europan Ocean on 12/08/2020 07:54:35Christians often do promote the fair and the good.So, they sometimes get it right?Well a stopped clock is right twice a day.The point is they sometimes get it right in spite of, or independently of, being Christians.Not because they are Christians.Quote from: Europan Ocean on 12/08/2020 07:54:35Atheists, what bearings do they have in the supernatural? Powers of unseen entities? Do they come and go? What do they want with you? What is supernatural malevolence? Do any spirits without bodies have a good nature? Can they come into a person and afflict them? You seem to have missed something.The defining characteristic of atheism is a lack of belief in GodSo, all atheists reject at last one aspect of the "supernatural".Most atheists realise that, like God, the unicorns, spirits and fairies at the bottom of the garden are just made-up stories.I asked you thisQuote from: Bored chemist on 11/08/2020 17:39:25Can you let us know what you think is actually supernatural?And I'm still waiting for a meaningful answer.What REAL thing is supernatural?
Cold Play and Phil Collins mention paradise in their lyrics.
People are inclined to think there is more to life than scientism.
There are stories of excorcism and the popularity of New Age practices.
Dr Peter Fenwick considers the reality of the soul leaving the body as real.
Due to NDE observations and those of people in hospital with loved ones who pass in their presence.
He is a much experienced Psychiatrist.
Can such a thing be explained by evolution.
And Dr Raymond Moody wrote about NDE commonalities and since then many such books have been written.
The faith in Christ captures the supernatural, that sense of things.
testimonies of freedom and fruition are supernatural.
Surely this was the best bet for a utopia?
Better to learn from them and build on them than go back to reasoning and philosophy alone?
But logic and no faith, does it do any better? No.
If this does not get things right, what will? Not simple logic or philosophy. Paul mentioned those to come with no conscience.
The US president in WW2 had to make decisions of unethical war or the loss of a hundred thousand of his own soldiers. I don't see how a Christian could handle that one myself.
Lyrics ae made up.There are songs about dragons, but that doesn't make them real, does it?Well, according to WIKI "Scientism is the promotion of science as the best or only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values. "What better, or more objective, measures would you suggest?I am aware that there are new religious or quasi religious beliefs.They are also apparently baseless.Who is he and why should I care what they think?Have the documented the process in some way?So, he studies the most faulty brains in existence- dying ones.There is serious debate about whether psychiatry is actually a science.Not much, because the near death experience has no effect on reproduction.Why did you ask?And, no doubt many dollars earned by selling books.Cars tend to fail in fairly similar ways, but that doesn't mean they have a soul. It means they are put together in the same way.Why wouldn't you expect something similar with people?Do you mean that supernatural means gullible?But they are indistinguishable from lies, delusions and mistakes.Do you have anything that's verifiably real and also supernatural?No.We have roughly 2000 years of proof of that.Democracy works a bit better than theocracy.Why?It's not as if you can actually learn anything from, for example, the Bible.The bits of it that are wrong- like stoning witches- prove that.You actually need logic and philosophy to stop the Bible being evil.Yes.And again you display the characteristic arrogance of religion.You think that conscience comes from religion.Well, that is factually wrong, as well as insulting.https://phys.org/news/2015-12-dogs-animals-conscience.htmlDo you think the dogs are catholic or protestant?
Dragons do not represent the continuing mind or conscience, conscientious ideals and essentials.
Dying brains need not be faulty.
Psychiatrists have to obtain the highest matriculation, then do a whole medical degree, then study the psyche for years.
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 23/08/2020 09:48:31Cold Play and Phil Collins mention paradise in their lyrics. The Beatles claimed to live in a yellow submarine. I met a bloke who built several, which makes the concept more believable than paradise, but AFAIK they were never inhabited by musicians.QuoteThe US president in WW2 had to make decisions of unethical war or the loss of a hundred thousand of his own soldiers. I don't see how a Christian could handle that one myself.And there you have the root of the problem. By attaching a label to yourself, you think you have limited your scope for thought and action, but you have no idea what those limits might be. Christians have killed thousands of others in the Name of Jesus, i.e. for no good reason whatever, so why should there be a limit on what can be done to defeat a real enemy?
Young people can die of cancer.Paradise not dragons are a milestone of idealism.
Quote from: Europan Ocean on 23/08/2020 13:19:02Young people can die of cancer.Paradise not dragons are a milestone of idealism.Are you deliberately missing the point?Paradise and dragons are both made up fairy tales.They are not real.So trying to make a point by saying Quote from: Europan Ocean on 23/08/2020 09:48:31Cold Play and Phil Collins mention paradise in their lyrics. is meaningless.All it does is shows that you do not understand how rational thought works.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/08/2020 13:32:06Quote from: Europan Ocean on 23/08/2020 13:19:02Young people can die of cancer.Paradise not dragons are a milestone of idealism.Are you deliberately missing the point?Paradise and dragons are both made up fairy tales.They are not real.So trying to make a point by saying Quote from: Europan Ocean on 23/08/2020 09:48:31Cold Play and Phil Collins mention paradise in their lyrics. is meaningless.All it does is shows that you do not understand how rational thought works.I am saying that hordes of people even atheists are sometimes expectant that there is more to reality and in people, than matter and energy. Or even that energy, that is what, in part, that people are, is indestructible.
Paradise is a precursor to utopia.
It seems Peter Fenwick is not a Dr but a Neuropsychologist.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Fenwick_(neuropsychologist)In other sources he called a Dr.