Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: QuantumClue on 15/12/2010 03:33:51
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This is somewhat, incredible. If this is not true, then it is one heck of an ellaborate hoax. But if this is true, then the footage you are about to see is probably the first genuine UFO footage of extratterrestrial vehicles. The story which follows is nothing short of miraculous, and the video afterwards was just by an accident which I had seen myself 4 weeks before the wiki release
http://stardrive.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2868:wikileaks-to-release-ufo-bombshell-or-more-dezinformatsia&catid=45:weird-desk&Itemid=103
A new report circulating in the Kremlin today prepared for President Medvedev by Russian Space Forces (VKS) 45th Division of Space Control says that an upcoming WikiLeaks release of secret US cables details that the Americans have been “engaged” since 2004 in a “war” against UFO’s based on or near the Continent of Antarctica, particularly the Southern Ocean.
According to this report, the United States went to its highest alert level on June 10, 2004 after a massive fleet of UFO’s “suddenly emerged” from the Southern Ocean and approached Guadalajara, Mexico barely 1,600 kilometers (1,000 miles) from the American border. Prior to reaching the US border, however, this massive UFO fleet is said in this report to have “dimensionally returned” to their Southern Ocean “home base”.
The fears of the Americans regarding these Southern Ocean UFO’s began, this report says, during the unprecedented events of July 11, 1991 (referred to as 7/11) when during the Solar Eclipse these mysterious aircraft appeared by the hundreds over nearly all of Mexico, even their Capital city. Most notable about the events of 7/11 were that as millions of Mexicans were watching on their televisions the National broadcasts of these UFO’s over Mexico City, the American media refused to allow their people to view it.
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It's a hoax, based on an offhand comment by Julian Assange that some of the wikileaks diplomatic cables involve talk about aliens:
http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20101210-251994.html
The hoax doesn't really even seem all that elaborate. Someone just made up a story posted it all over various forums.
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What about the video evidence which has existed long before the leak was released?
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Not to mention all the mexicans who can either vouch or not vouch for this ''fleet'' which was indeed seen over mexico?
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What about the video evidence which has existed long before the leak was released?
The evidence for this seems to be:
1) A home video of some blurry blobs in the sky (which look a lot like balloons).
2) An uncredited story without verifiable sources posted all over various forums about UFO fleets.
3) An comment by the Wikileaks founder that some of his documents contain dicsussions about UFOs (note that he didn't say they contain evidence).
I think the only reason this hoax gets any traction is because of the Wikileaks comment.
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The footage is not nearly as bad as you are making out, and I think if they where balloons, they would not be as big - the unicon flight patterns as well are a give away that they are simply not balloons. Balloons don't care with geometry. Secondly, I think it be not wise to comment on the footage; that is not what is at debate here.
What is clear from the wikirelease is that the video has existed long before anyone concocted any hoax - which is one reason why I said this would need to be an elaborate hoax. For once, in all my years of hearing about UFO's being observed, I have actually seen evidence of this before the report was world wide. In fact, the video evidence has been there a lot longer than just 4 weeks, I do believe that video has been there for many years. In light of these facts, one has to assume that the video evidence is independant of the wikileak, even though at first this may seem obvious.
What one has to deduct now is whether
A) Millions of mexicans are liars
B) The video has provided a footstool for an elaborate prank on a mass-UFO sighting
Trying to disprove both A and B will prove exceedingly difficult. Proving the video was made for the wikileak would be even more difficult.
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I suspect my antipodean pal failed to realize that all the "great truths" revealed on Wikileaks will be immediately swamped by a barrage of contradictory and confusing "great truths". The stuff they are exposing may be real enough, but they can't authenticate any of it.
Such is the nature of the Internet. It goeth both ways.
However, my main concern is that Assange is really only interested in lining his own pockets. I refuse to be drawn into any discussion that suggests he is merely trying to exercise his Johnson.
EDIT: BTW, I am currently hosting a (ahem) Wikileaks mirror. Pop me a PM if you want the URL.
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JP
I hate to say it, but you would be making millions of people out to be liars. That video apparently was by no mere ''lone stab'' into the heart of the UFO world. There are more, diffrerent, more unseen angles to the potential ships. Here you can see the ''geometry of their flight patterns'' in even greater detail, a bit more disturbing in fact.
Please ignore the person who [posted the video] as they seem as a religious fanatic.
And there seems to be more videos which I might post.
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JP
I hate to say it, but you would be making millions of people out to be liars.
They are not liars. If they believe in what the saw, how could they be liars?
The question is, as a scientist, can you provide any scientific evidence?
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I hate to say it, but you would be making millions of people out to be liars.
Is there evidence aside from claims on the internet or in pro-UFO publications that millions of people saw and believe these to be UFOs? Actual polls would be nice. All the claims made in that story are pretty incredible and there is not one shred of solid evidence to back any of it up. And no--youtube videos of white blobs in the sky is not evidence of anything other than that someone posted a youtube video of white blobs in the sky.
If I'm calling anyone a liar, it's the people who make up these hoaxes.
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JP
I hate to say it, but you would be making millions of people out to be liars.
They are not liars. If they believe in what the saw, how could they be liars?
The question is, as a scientist, can you provide any scientific evidence?
I cannot provide anything to the contrary, which is always a good start. Meaningless speculations on the video never helps though. If millions had seen this, they certainly saw something, and whoever released the wiki information, released it knowing that millions have seen this.
(Though I am not sure if truely millions had seen it - but there should be no speculation that the video is somehow fake, unless the video was created for the wikileaks specifically, which seems highly unlikely.)
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Then let us examine how elaborate the hoax needed to be to fool millions of people? As for polls, I would certainly believe there be something after the wikileaks information on the subject. Surely there will be a voice in the guadalajara mexico region which will either confirm the phenom to have happened or not?
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Here we have another video... excuse the irritating music.
In this one, we see an example of how the formation at guadalajara could have happened. This is a video evidence of a larger mothership ejecting smaller balloon-like objects. Of course, balloons don't act this way, as we see, it also has a formation in its flight patterns and has came in the dozens.
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(Though later in the recent vid, there seems to be some video coverage of the mexican account)
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I would have been fascinated to know what this interview was speaking about, but unfortunately I don't talk his language, mexican I believe.
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Here we have an even more interesting video of the mothership account - along the same lines as the brightly colored objects being ejected in the last video, thid video has them as though they where a dark liquidic form
The formation ends similar in which was viewed over guadalajara.
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^^ interestingly, I just noticed, this account was in mexico as well, but happened much later in 2009.
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QC,
Scientific evidence is not related in any way to a "majority vote". If it was, we would still be living in caves, if we were living at all (which I tend to doubt).
Assuming you believe that Einstein was not completely off his rocker, what do you think the result of a public poll that E=mC² would have been?
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The thread was about wikileaks releasing secret UFO documents. I think we should be clear that wikileaks has released nothing of the sort. The story quoted in the first post doesn't appear to be based on any credible sources. The only credible news reports I can find about wikileaks and UFOs are that the wikileaks founder made a comment during an interview that aliens are mentioned in some as-of-yet-unreleased documents. The contents of those documents are unknown. The one news source I could find cites "internet sources" as saying they're probably just diplomats talking offhand about aliens, rather than evidence of UFOs. (Of course, "internet sources" are suspect.)
My personal view would be that Assange is just trying to drum up publicity, which hoaxes like this are doing for him.
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My personal view would be that Assange is just trying to drum up publicity, which hoaxes like this are doing for him.
So he can make money from it! The funny thing is that he's destroying any credibility he might have had in the first place, but that won't stop a lot of people from falling into the trap.
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QC,
Scientific evidence is not related in any way to a "majority vote". If it was, we would still be living in caves, if we were living at all (which I tend to doubt).
Assuming you believe that Einstein was not completely off his rocker, what do you think the result of a public poll that E=mC² would have been?
Oh I never stated it was. I am saying something happened that day, and many people wittnessed it. If there has been a wikileak on the subject, it is not a hoax made with thin air, which is my point.
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Assuming you believe that Einstein was not completely off his rocker, what do you think the result of a public poll that E=mC² would have been?
Pretty high I'd wager, since Poincaré, Hasenöhrl, and Planck all derived the equation before him in published works.
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What I find amazing about all this footage of UFO's is that they all appear on YouTube and have been shot by some amateur.
Would you not think that at least one of the reputable news agencies would have taken up these stories? The BBC, CNN, ITN and certainly (given the Islamic undertones) Aljazzera?
Given the intelligence and ability of these ET's, would you not think that they would have contacted us in a language we can understand? Please don't tell me it has been suppressed by the US government. It may come as something of a shock to some, but there are other governments around the world apart from the US. Don't be so presumptuous to assume that ET would only speak to the US President. Even if it were the case that the all the governments of the world agreed to suppress this ET business (which i seriously doubt, since they have great trouble agreeing what to agree about some times), don't you think this highly advanced race could easily circumvent any such attempts by simply hijacking TV and radio signals and broadcasting to the world???????
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Oh, yes! I remember the alien day. Wait no, i don't. It didn't happen :P
What one has to deduct now is whether
A) Millions of mexicans are liars
B) The video has provided a footstool for an elaborate prank on a mass-UFO sighting
Trying to disprove both A and B will prove exceedingly difficult. Proving the video was made for the wikileak would be even more difficult.
Or option C) Whoever made the report about the Mexicans seeing the UFO army over our heads, was lying.
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Oh, yes! I remember the alien day. Wait no, i don't. It didn't happen :P
What one has to deduct now is whether
A) Millions of mexicans are liars
B) The video has provided a footstool for an elaborate prank on a mass-UFO sighting
Trying to disprove both A and B will prove exceedingly difficult. Proving the video was made for the wikileak would be even more difficult.
Or option C) Whoever made the report about the Mexicans seeing the UFO army over our heads, was lying.
Are you mexican?
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What I find amazing about all this footage of UFO's is that they all appear on YouTube and have been shot by some amateur.
Would you not think that at least one of the reputable news agencies would have taken up these stories? The BBC, CNN, ITN and certainly (given the Islamic undertones) Aljazzera?
Given the intelligence and ability of these ET's, would you not think that they would have contacted us in a language we can understand? Please don't tell me it has been suppressed by the US government. It may come as something of a shock to some, but there are other governments around the world apart from the US. Don't be so presumptuous to assume that ET would only speak to the US President. Even if it were the case that the all the governments of the world agreed to suppress this ET business (which i seriously doubt, since they have great trouble agreeing what to agree about some times), don't you think this highly advanced race could easily circumvent any such attempts by simply hijacking TV and radio signals and broadcasting to the world???????
Some news agencies tend to not even let half the reports coming in in case of being shunned. Many reporters have reported themselves on this fact.
However here in Britain, some news agencies such as ITN have reported on a lot of UFO incidences, and you will in fact find many of them on YOUTUBE contrary to your belief.
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QuantumClue:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. There is apparently very little evidence here, much less extraordinary, so more simple explanations such as plain old tomfoolery, fraud, gullibility, and mass hallucination are much more probable. Me thinks you must be an Area 51 enthusiast.
Steve
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I've often wondered why it is that the same people who believe videos of aliens are not fakes also tend to believe that the Apollo Moon landing videos are fakes.
Why is that then? [::)]
BTW - did you know that "gullible" is not in the dictionary?
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Who are you speaking to? I've never believed in the moon landing hoax.
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Geezer:
Gullible is a good old handy word. Check out Webster's:
Main Entry: gull·ible
Function: adjective
Etymology: gull + -ible
: easily deceived or cheated : readily duped <the innocents of those days were certainly naïve; they were gullible -- Bruce Bliven b. 1889>
- gul·li·bly \-blemacron, -li\ adverb
Citation format for this entry:
"gullible." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (17 Dec. 2010).
Steve
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QuantumClue:
You do, however, give credence to the great "Wikileaks reveals UFO fleet as a REAL WAR against US forces" hoax. Look, I am not trying to beat up on you here, but this is just very weak.
Steve
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I am a logical person. I strive on logic.
What I have deducted, is that in comparisson to usual tactics used to create hoax's, is that this particular event which might have occurred, and which may have not, happened nonetheless with video evidence on the UFO fleet long before the wikileak was available. What seems apparent is that whoever created this possible hoax, used information already which was not well-known. That kind of tactic is usually not very fruitful. Atleast if you are going to make a hoax, let your hoax reach the ear of millions, not a few thousand.
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Geezer:
Gullible is a good old handy word. Check out Webster's:
Main Entry: gull·ible
Function: adjective
Etymology: gull + -ible
: easily deceived or cheated : readily duped <the innocents of those days were certainly naïve; they were gullible -- Bruce Bliven b. 1889>
- gul·li·bly \-blemacron, -li\ adverb
Citation format for this entry:
"gullible." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (17 Dec. 2010).
Steve
Gotcha! [;D]
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Who are you speaking to? I've never believed in the moon landing hoax.
Actually, I didn't say you did, and I'm glad to hear that you don't.
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QuantumClue:
If you are logical, what about having the video's appear prior to the news or whatever silliness convince you that this is more credible than just somebody who likes to stir things up to get attention? How do you deal with the claim that Wikileaks was just referring to earthly aliens, as in some guy from another country, which is much more likely without any evidence? What if the time between the two events were reversed in time? What if both are being created by the same individual or group? All these speculations are much, much, more likely than alien space ships. You need to reset your logic module.
Steve
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Geezer, I tried to soften it as much as possible. What am I supposed to do under these circumstances. No real gotcha. Steve
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Well, I ask a moderator locks the thread then. I certainly wouldn't want people to think I like to stir things up, so please, do me such a favor.
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Well, I ask a moderator locks the thread then. I certainly wouldn't want people to think I like to stir things up, so please, do me such a favor.
No reason to do that. After all, this is the "That Can't Be True!" forum. However, TNS is a Science Forum, so I don't think you should be surprised that a lot of people here are very skeptical about some dubious "evidence" posted on Youtube.
If you want to believe that aliens visit Earth, that's entirely up to you, but you'll have to come up with something a bit better than this to persuade me it's anything other than complete baloney.
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Well, I ask a moderator locks the thread then. I certainly wouldn't want people to think I like to stir things up, so please, do me such a favor.
No reason to do that. After all, this is the "That Can't Be True!" forum. However, TNS is a Science Forum, so I don't think you should be surprised that a lot of people here are very skeptical about some dubious "evidence" posted on Youtube.
If you want to believe that aliens visit Earth, that's entirely up to you, but you'll have to come up with something a bit better than this to persuade me it's anything other than complete baloney.
It is a disease as such, that scientists today may look upon the idea of some form of extraterrestrial life as an insane proposition, if they are unwilling to see how vast and complex reality is, and how vast their realities intertwine in the vast cosmos, that we may feel too significant to realize some other lifeform could ever know of our existence, and know of our lives. If this be the case, then the scientist has become very selfish, in his own life, and how he treats his existence.
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Well, I ask a moderator locks the thread then. I certainly wouldn't want people to think I like to stir things up, so please, do me such a favor.
No reason to do that. After all, this is the "That Can't Be True!" forum. However, TNS is a Science Forum, so I don't think you should be surprised that a lot of people here are very skeptical about some dubious "evidence" posted on Youtube.
If you want to believe that aliens visit Earth, that's entirely up to you, but you'll have to come up with something a bit better than this to persuade me it's anything other than complete baloney.
It is a disease as such, that scientists today may look upon the idea of some form of extraterrestrial life as an insane proposition, if they are unwilling to see how vast and complex reality is, and how vast their realities intertwine in the vast cosmos, that we may feel too significant to realize some other lifeform could ever know of our existence, and know of our lives. If this be the case, then the scientist has become very selfish, in his own life, and how he treats his existence.
Nonsense. I actually do think the Universe is teaming with extraterrestrial life, and I'm sure a lot of scientists do too. What I don't believe is that a video posted on Youtube constitutes credible evidence for anything.
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I am just stating, that I like to keep an open mind about things.
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I am just stating, that I like to keep an open mind about things.
I agree it's good to keep an open mind. It's also good to understand that the World if full of people who like to play jokes on other people. I confess I've done that a few times myself, although everything I've posted on Youtube is legitimate - so far [:)]
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I've seen many things which can't be explained by science fully so far, so I am always with an open mind, when weighing in the evidence, no matter how peculiar that evidence may come across as. You may think of me as the antithesis of Occams Razor, that way ~ the simplest of answers are not always the answers... it's a false paradigm.
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QuantumClue, since when is non-acceptance of alien invasion rumors an indication of being closed minded and Occam's Razor a paradigm? Steve
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What I find amazing about all this footage of UFO's is that they all appear on YouTube and have been shot by some amateur.
Would you not think that at least one of the reputable news agencies would have taken up these stories? The BBC, CNN, ITN and certainly (given the Islamic undertones) Aljazzera?
Given the intelligence and ability of these ET's, would you not think that they would have contacted us in a language we can understand? Please don't tell me it has been suppressed by the US government. It may come as something of a shock to some, but there are other governments around the world apart from the US. Don't be so presumptuous to assume that ET would only speak to the US President. Even if it were the case that the all the governments of the world agreed to suppress this ET business (which i seriously doubt, since they have great trouble agreeing what to agree about some times), don't you think this highly advanced race could easily circumvent any such attempts by simply hijacking TV and radio signals and broadcasting to the world???????
Some news agencies tend to not even let half the reports coming in in case of being shunned. Many reporters have reported themselves on this fact.
However here in Britain, some news agencies such as ITN have reported on a lot of UFO incidences, and you will in fact find many of them on YOUTUBE contrary to your belief.
Yes indeed, on YouTube, but I have yet to see anything like this given the full treatment on News at Ten. Given the importance of such sightings, were they real, I rather think both the BBC and ITV would interupt whatever they were screening to tell the nation of this most momentous of occasions, wouldn't they?
I wonder if any one who saw the YouTube footage in which these unbelievable beings were so righteous as to spell the name 'Allah' and 'Muhammad' in Arabic for all to see, had considered a couple of small points. Small, but significant.
1) If you were standing 10 miles to the East, West or South, of the point where this camera was situated, the alignment would have been different and the UFO pattern would have spelt nothing at all.
2} If you were standing 10 miles to the North of the point where this camera was situated, the alignment would still have spelt the names of 'Allah' and 'Muhammad', BUT, upside-down. Wouldn't that be an insult or blasphemy?
3) Our ET friends of such great intellect seem to have had a little nutty moment, they were using Arabic over the skies of a nation which, if memory serves correct, tend to speak in some language a tad more akin to Spanish. Did they pick the wrong language, or is their geography in need of some correction?
Ah well, at least they, rather conveniently, posed for the camera.
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QuantumClue, since when is non-acceptance of alien invasion rumors an indication of being closed minded and Occam's Razor a paradigm? Steve
Occams Razor is a train of thought which applies to a limited imagination.
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In all this time it was only Santa making a dry run
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QuantumClue:
Occam's razor is not a paradigm. Western science or alternative medicine are paradigms. Occam's razor is just a rule of thumb that is used by western science almost without thought because it is so reasonable. You cannot deny the overwhelming success of the scientific enterprise.
Basically Occam's razor in science suggests that if one has more than one explanation for a phenomenon, the one that is the most logical and complete, and that has the fewest unknown assumptions is probably the best working hypothesis. It doesn't suggest that the most parsimonious one is necessarily correct. Science or not, to behave differently is just plain stupid. You seem to want to believe in something before there is any evidence at all, and to not look at more logical alternative explanations.
Steve
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I don't recall calling it a paradigm. Also, how can you say I don't personally see all alternatives. To create a certain point of view should not mean it absolute.
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What I find amazing about all this footage of UFO's is that they all appear on YouTube and have been shot by some amateur.
Would you not think that at least one of the reputable news agencies would have taken up these stories? The BBC, CNN, ITN and certainly (given the Islamic undertones) Aljazzera?
Given the intelligence and ability of these ET's, would you not think that they would have contacted us in a language we can understand? Please don't tell me it has been suppressed by the US government. It may come as something of a shock to some, but there are other governments around the world apart from the US. Don't be so presumptuous to assume that ET would only speak to the US President. Even if it were the case that the all the governments of the world agreed to suppress this ET business (which i seriously doubt, since they have great trouble agreeing what to agree about some times), don't you think this highly advanced race could easily circumvent any such attempts by simply hijacking TV and radio signals and broadcasting to the world???????
Some news agencies tend to not even let half the reports coming in in case of being shunned. Many reporters have reported themselves on this fact.
However here in Britain, some news agencies such as ITN have reported on a lot of UFO incidences, and you will in fact find many of them on YOUTUBE contrary to your belief.
Yes indeed, on YouTube, but I have yet to see anything like this given the full treatment on News at Ten. Given the importance of such sightings, were they real, I rather think both the BBC and ITV would interupt whatever they were screening to tell the nation of this most momentous of occasions, wouldn't they?
I wonder if any one who saw the YouTube footage in which these unbelievable beings were so righteous as to spell the name 'Allah' and 'Muhammad' in Arabic for all to see, had considered a couple of small points. Small, but significant.
1) If you were standing 10 miles to the East, West or South, of the point where this camera was situated, the alignment would have been different and the UFO pattern would have spelt nothing at all.
2} If you were standing 10 miles to the North of the point where this camera was situated, the alignment would still have spelt the names of 'Allah' and 'Muhammad', BUT, upside-down. Wouldn't that be an insult or blasphemy?
3) Our ET friends of such great intellect seem to have had a little nutty moment, they were using Arabic over the skies of a nation which, if memory serves correct, tend to speak in some language a tad more akin to Spanish. Did they pick the wrong language, or is their geography in need of some correction?
Ah well, at least they, rather conveniently, posed for the camera.
Yes, that video is pure nonesense. Don't think for a second I said it wasn't.
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The Occam's razor has two adopted applications, fine or coarse
William of Ockham (c. 1285–1349) is remembered as an influential nominalist but his popular fame as a great logician rests chiefly on the maxim attributed to him and known as Ockham's razor. The term razor (the German "Ockhams Messer" translates to "Occam's knife") refers to distinguising between two theories either by "shaving away" unnecessary assumptions or cutting apart two similar theories.
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Part of the problem might be that the title of this thread is provocative. What we're actually debating is whether those youtube videos might be actual aliens or not, not whether there's wikileak evidence of an alien fleet engaged in a war against the US.
By the way, if an actual alien fleet was able to travel across vast distances to earth and launch massive fleets that can do the kind of acrobatic tricks shown in the videos, how in the world can they not have enslaved us all yet? Also: why haven't we nuked Antarctica? More importantly, was the ozone hole a plot to give the aliens all cancer to defeat them? Hmmmm.... [???]
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was the ozone hole a plot to give the aliens all cancer to defeat them? Hmmmm.... [???]
No need for anything so drastic according to H G Wells.
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By the way, if an actual alien fleet was able to travel across vast distances to earth and launch massive fleets that can do the kind of acrobatic tricks shown in the videos, how in the world can they not have enslaved us all yet?
Come come now, why must we always assume that ET is going to enslave us?
But I would like to know why I haven't been invited round to their gaff for moring coffee yet.
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Don - aliens don't like puns, the rest of us go round all the time. you, as punmaker-general, will have to wait for the aliens to discover that strange human sense of humour.
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Surely you are not suggesting that there is Planet Pun???
Apologies for calling you Shirley. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA)
A sad loss. RIP Leslie Nielsen.
Leslie William Nielsen, (11 February 1926 – 28 November 2010)
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He was a true genius.
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There is no immediate reason to think an alien lifeform/race would be hostile, though the notion cannot be ruled out for obvious reasons.
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Could it be the US gov is testing out its swarm technology?
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I think maybe a great percentage of UFO's could be government experiments.
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I think maybe a great percentage of UFO's could be government experiments.
I think a great percentage of UFO's could be the result of people having one too many before heading home from the pub.
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Agreed, but the camera does not drink.
All jokes aside, there is a real phenomena, and it exists all around the world, even NASA has evidence that the UFO phenomenon is real, and it's closed-minded individuals like yourself that does it no justice. Who in there right mind today, including professionals in their fields will deny these objects are being observed, instead of making assinine comments like the one you have?
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Includes the brilliant line "electronic electromagnetic plasma kind-of death ray"
Sorry but if that is the proof...
And can't they get a decent video camera on the shuttle - my phone takes better video than that!
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I don't consider the video proof of anything, but many parts of the video have been examined by NASA - which on a purely educational ground, was my stance that the phenomenon was real.
People, stop getting so hung up on these videos, please. I don't support them as proof of anything.
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OK QuantumClue, please give the evidence that the phenomena "exists all around the world, even NASA has evidence that the UFO phenomenon is real" and quit making unsupported assertions. Steve
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I do not have information on NASA readily available, only what I know and have committed to memory steve. I know they have looked into the phenomena. I know they know it must exist in some form, even if they are not considered to be extraterrestrial.
And I surely don't need to support the part ''they are observed all over the world...'' surely? Have you never read UFO books, such as Nick Popes? Your question seems somewhat... bizarre - do you not believe other people over the world see these things? Oh well, good old wiki will come to the rescue there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFO_sightings
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Here scrap that; here is some proof NASA does look into these things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_outer_space
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QuantumClue, all there is in your link is a bunch of disputed sightings of unidentified objects. There is absolutely no evidence at all that the bits and pieces observed had anything whatever to do with extraterrestrial alien space ships. When there is no evidence at all for this it is irrational to jump to a pretty extravagant conclusion. People see things, like you they provide an explanation that suits their fancy. I repeat, just supply some credible evidence. Because NASA is a public agency I would think it should be easy to find some document that they sign on to. Steve
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Well, yes, UFO's are real enough. By definition, there are many sightings of "unidentified flying objects". If we knew what they were, they wouldn't be unidentified.
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Am I talking to myself? I will ask the thread to be closed if people stop making assinine comments.
Steve, there is no satisfying you. You asked me to back this claim up:
''exists all around the world, even NASA has evidence that the UFO phenomenon is real"
Did I or did I not give you a list of countries with accounts of UFO observation? Did I or did I not provide you with evidence NASA has investigated such claims 1)?
Now, did I or did I now address your questions?
1) - Actually NASA does make me laugh sometimes.I remember the day sts-48 came out, and it was studied. A while later, NASA said it was ice particles - what a joke - the video account is here
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Meaning steve, I made no mention that UFOs are directly alien, nor did your questions require that I PROVIDE proof of aliens. Your questions seem more and more like a caliginous trap.
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QuantumClue, you duck and weave. This is sort of like your denial of your Occam's razor-paradigm claim. This thread is about alien forces threatening the US and this is what you have been trying to support. Many of us have been telling you that this is an unwarranted assumption, but you persist. If you want to change this to misinterpretations of a large variety of natural phenomena, then start a new thread. Otherwise please provide evidence of the presence of an extraterrestrial alien fleet. I would be especially interested in credible evidence from NASA. Steve
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I said Occams razor is a train of thought for those with a lack of imagination. What denial did I exhibit?
I think JP has hit it on the nail. This is about the OP headlines? They where the same wikileak headlines, so I would not be too involved with the idea I am somehow trying to invest in exraterestrial encounters.
And what credible evidence from NASA do you have in mind? What evidence to support extraterrestrial life? There is lots. You want proof, there is none. NASA does not waste superfluous amounts of money and energy into studying UFO claims.
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Here is a nice video with experts in the field giving their accounts and analysis
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I will ask the thread to be closed if people stop making assinine comments.
I'll be happy to oblige. (er, you might want to rephrase that, unless you want to look like an ass)
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Be my guest. I won't have people fabricate things about what I am supposed to have said.
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No, I meant about your request to keep receiving assinine comments.
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Oh.. Wont* stop (it should read)
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[;D]
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QuantumClue, I am not going to go back through all your posts in which you supported the crazy article, the claim that Wikileaks provided evidence of aliens, and the video which you think was evidence because it existed long before the leak was released. You found “evidence” of a mother ship in a YouTube video! Regarding Occam’s razor, you said—“You may think of me as the antithesis of Occams Razor, that way ~ the simplest of answers are not always the answers... it's a false paradigm.”
As for the last video there is a lot of material that has already been explained adequately. Kasher is only an expert in the promotion of UFOs and extraterrestrial aliens on and around earth. He has no evidence, just conjecture. If you are not promoting the idea of extraterrestrial UFOs, why do you site Kasher as providing evidence? Steve
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I have stood firm in saying it provided evidence something happened that day. Proove I said it was about aliens?
I said it was a false paradigm... well either way, it is unecessery to always think of the simplest of answers in the most of extraordinary cases.
Steve, I site the astronauts because I get the sense off posters here that sightings are reserved for alcoholics and drug addicts. I truely wish this stigma would die.
Just read my post *sitings* -> changed to sightings. Don't worry, I can spell, sometimes :)
[4 msgs combined into one - in line with AUP guidelines, Mod]
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the integrity of this video cannot be questioned as it was filmed by NASA - Some real gems in this video, really does make the skeptic think twice. Two interesting accounts particularily; one account on the moon, the astronaut says along the lines ''so what do I see... Looks like we've had visitors... not worth mentioning really.''
Another account speaks of astronauts, where the astronaut reports to ground control that a metalic silvery craft was hovering outside the shuttle, apparently getting a good look at the ship - would have been very startling I would presume.
Enjoy.