Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: neilep on 12/12/2011 12:53:46
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Dearest Liftologists and Those With A degree In Elevatorology,
As a sheepy I of course take lifts all the time. Going up and down in lifts is all I think about. Yep, from the moment I hear the first call of dawn to the time I fall asleep...going up and down in lifts monopolises my every waking second. Yep, if everybody in the world just spent more time going up and down in lifts then the world would be a happier place ! ...and that's a fact because I just said so !
Lifts are often confused with cabbages so here ewe can see some empirical evidence that will help ewe to distinguish between the two !..Take your time..it's not easy !
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A LIFT BEING A LIFT AND NOT A CABBAGE EARLIER TODAY
[ Invalid Attachment ]
A CABBAGE NOT BEING A LIFT JUST MOMENTS AGO
Ok, so...as ewe all know ...jumping up at the last second in a rapidly descending lift really doesn't help ewe very much at all...the result is generally the same...a nice splat !
So, what is the best position to assume when in a rapidly descending lift ?..lie down ?..on your back ?...front ?....arms and legs splayed out ?...Curled up in foetal position ?
whajafink ?
Please let me know as I will be able to enjoy friendly banal chit-chatty-small-talk as I pass on this happy information to people the next time I am in a very packed lift...I am sure they will be most entertained...yes..yes..I am sure of it !
Hugs and shmishes
mwah mwah mwah !
Neil
Do Ewe Need A Lift ?
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if the sheep is upright, the impact gets distributed & breaks 4 limbs. If on its back?
If the sheep is in Spain [& mistaken for a goat or if all the goats have flown] during some holy day celebration, it gets throw out a third story window. Cabbage probly gets rolled down the stairs.
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I would guess flat on your back with head and neck cushioned if possible. Although there is less subcutaneous fat on the back to cushion - its the best way to get your head and neck as flat as possible. although the recovery position does allow quite a large flat surface of your head to be on the floor.
if you have the where-with-all and presence of mind to be thinking about this in a plummetting lift then you deserve to survive.
auxiliary question - in a free falling lift will you be able to lie flat on the floor?
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As I understand it, if you find yourself in a free falling elevator, the thing to do that gives you the best chance of survival is:
Jump up and grab the upper edge of the elevator wall so that your feet are dangling. When the elevator hits bottom the most damage from the impact will occur. The second it takes for you to lose your grip and hit the floor allows one to escape the worst of the impact. Sure you'll have plenty of broken bones, but you may just live to tell about it.
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if the sheep is upright, the impact gets distributed & breaks 4 limbs. If on its back?
If the sheep is in Spain [& mistaken for a goat or if all the goats have flown] during some holy day celebration, it gets throw out a third story window. Cabbage probly gets rolled down the stairs.
Thank ewe CZARCAR...fortunately for me I am neither a goat or a goat in Spain !....which is nice !
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I would guess flat on your back with head and neck cushioned if possible. Although there is less subcutaneous fat on the back to cushion - its the best way to get your head and neck as flat as possible. although the recovery position does allow quite a large flat surface of your head to be on the floor.
if you have the where-with-all and presence of mind to be thinking about this in a plummetting lift then you deserve to survive.
auxiliary question - in a free falling lift will you be able to lie flat on the floor?
Thank ewe very much Imatfaal. I think it might be possible to lie on the floor of a plummeting lift as it may not attain terminal velocity due to things like friction/banging against the shaft and from cable and cogs etc !....but I agree that lying down would be best though my first instinct was to be face down and spread-eagled !
Perhaps when i am next in a lift I will suggest an empirical experiment to the passengers !...in the mean time..I may visit my neighbour at 3am tomorrow for some empirical study (for which I am a firm believer in ) :-)
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As I understand it, if you find yourself in a free falling elevator, the thing to do that gives you the best chance of survival is:
Jump up and grab the upper edge of the elevator wall so that your feet are dangling. When the elevator hits bottom the most damage from the impact will occur. The second it takes for you to lose your grip and hit the floor allows one to escape the worst of the impact. Sure you'll have plenty of broken bones, but you may just live to tell about it.
Thank you very much Gordian KnotThis is very interesting indeed. Cripes !...that is a very drastic potential life saving act which I will seriously consider. I just hope that elevators I travel in have grabbable walls. [;)]
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In A Falling Lift/Elevator What is The Best Position To Assume ?
Outside. On on of the passing floors.
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As I understand it, if you find yourself in a free falling elevator, the thing to do that gives you the best chance of survival is:
Jump up and grab the upper edge of the elevator wall so that your feet are dangling. When the elevator hits bottom the most damage from the impact will occur. The second it takes for you to lose your grip and hit the floor allows one to escape the worst of the impact. Sure you'll have plenty of broken bones, but you may just live to tell about it.
Thank you very much Gordian KnotThis is very interesting indeed. Cripes !...that is a very drastic potential life saving act which I will seriously consider. I just hope that elevators I travel in have grabbable walls. [;)]
wont the hang/drop scheme result in similar impact as if u had all 4 limbs afoot ?
Now, if u glued ur wool & hung off the ceiling b4 impact, the shearing/sheering would deplete the landing impact?
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All I can say is that I read this solution in one of those books about surviving modern lifestyle disasters. Like how to survive if your car falls into a lake, or how to survive if you are in a hostage crisis, such as a bank holdup, etc.
However, doing some Internet surfing, the most prominent theory appears to be to lie down prone on the floor, though it was acknowledged that in a free fall, getting yourself TO the floor could be a problem!
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though if i was fattt woman/man with fat tits & guts, I'd lay front2floor so the fat would cushion the impact. Q= do sheep have udder?
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For the lift to be falling the cables and the shaft guides will have to be broken. this would mean that you are not falling in a lift, but are in a building that is imploding. Best position is to bend down and kiss yourself goodbye, as when the car stops it is going to be flattened by a lot of concrete.
Hit the floor away from the door, and preferably in a corner. Lie flat on your stomach and put your head on the ground and close your eyes. When it hits the bottom the rebound bumpers are very likely to come through the center of the floor, so edges are best and door is bad because it is unsupported by a side beam.
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All I can say is that I read this solution in one of those books about surviving modern lifestyle disasters. Like how to survive if your car falls into a lake, or how to survive if you are in a hostage crisis, such as a bank holdup, etc.
However, doing some Internet surfing, the most prominent theory appears to be to lie down prone on the floor, though it was acknowledged that in a free fall, getting yourself TO the floor could be a problem!
Not for long.
And this thread reminds me of this: about 55 seconds in.
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What is the best position to assume?
Fetal.
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What is the best position to assume?
Fetal.
Faecal might be more likely!
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I do not believe a sheep can lie on a hard flat surface with its legs straight up in the air. However, that would be the best position. I am also unaware that a sheep can go all spread eagle with all four legs out to the side.
Basically, a sheep in a free falling elevator will simply become mutton in short order.
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If you could manage to get on top of the elevator...
In the few seconds of free-fall.
You could then use the rest of the elevator as a "crumple zone"... assuming that it crumples up a bit.
However, having several broken cables snapping around like Medusa's hair might be equally lethal.
Any chance there would be something up there that you could wrap a coat around and grab onto... Rope burn might be a risk, but I think I'd rather have rope burn to the bones than to be inside of the elevator.
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Impossible. Nobody Has EVER Died In A Falling Elevator And All Elevators Now Have Multiple Cables That Can Each Hold The Weight Of The Elevator And Emergency Brakes If The Cables Should Fail. If Anything You Should Be More Concerned With The Safety Hazards Of Rising Elevators...http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/nyregion/elevator-accident-kills-a-woman-in-a-madison-avenue-building.html
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Well, the so called "Rope elevators" do have multiple cables. But that is not the only type of elevator. Besides the rope elevators, i.e. cables, there are also hydraulic elevators. No cables required! You are correct though that there have been virtually NO deaths from a falling elevator!
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Did dredge up this though:
"In fact, prior to the September 11th terrorist attacks, the only known free-fall incident in a modern cable-borne elevator happened in 1945 when a B-25 bomber struck the Empire State Building in fog, severing the cables of an elevator cab, which fell from the 75th floor all the way to the bottom of the building, seriously injuring (though not killing) the sole occupant - the female elevator operator."
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The brakes on an elevator are always on unless there is tension in the hoisting cable. You can't get much more "fail-safe" than that.
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"In fact, prior to the September 11th terrorist attacks, the only known free-fall incident in a modern cable-borne elevator happened in 1945 when a B-25 bomber struck the Empire State Building
There seem to be multiple elevator accidents and injuries.
See page 2 for a description of several accidents with hydraullic elevators.
http://www.rooneyirving.ca/news1.pdf
Free-falling elevator injures disabled rider in Belmont
Only fell for a couple of floors, and was stopped before it reached the bottom. However, it was enough to injure occupant. Injury might have been avoided with a softer braking system (assuming not at the bottom).
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/bay-area/2011/12/free-falling-elevator-injures-disabled-rider-belmont
Stalled elevator went into freefall during a rescue attempt.
http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/2007/12/a-close-call-encounter-of-the-elevator-kind.html
About a 4 floor freefall elevator accident in Bronx Courthouse.
http://northshoreinjurylawyer.com/track-record/
Texas elevator drops from 27th to 23rd floor.
http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/heights-news/article/Elevator-falls-have-workers-in-Houston-tower-1744951.php
3 floor drop in New York
http://www.markhofflaw.com/news/going-down-construction-workers-hurt-in-elevator-free-fall20110527.cfm
5 floor drop in Tallahassee Florida.
http://nicolehowley.visionsmartnews.com/5-fl-dept-of-education-employees-injured-in-elevator-free-fall_3847.html
1903, elevator fell 6 stories to the bottom.
1946, cable snapped, elevator dropped to the bottom.
1945, Empire State Building (mentioned above). After plane crash, used faulty elevator for botched rescue.
Sept 11, 2001, World Trade Center Attack, apparently several elevators failed.
http://listverse.com/2011/12/23/10-tragic-elevator-accidents/
Anyway, most of these reported incidents are partial falls of a few floors. Some with different types of elevators (so, technically, not all are accidents in "modern cable elevators").
Door malfunctions, or for some reason, upward surges seem to be more common, and deadly. I'll have to re-think the practice of sticking my foot in the door to make it reopen.
Perhaps these are all related, with an elevator getting jammed on something... causing a loss of tension in the cables if going down, or an increase in tension if going up. Then whatever they are stuck on releases, and the elevators either surges upwards or downwards.
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You are correct, there have been elevator incidents. Just no fatal ones from a free falling elevator. As I understand it the majority of deaths related to elevators are mostly from workers who lean out further than they should and get scrambled in the mechanisms. There are a minority of incidents of people not paying attention and stepping into a void when they were expecting an elevator and falling to their death.
Though personally I have a hard time with the concept that a person didn't notice that when the doors opened there was nothing there!!!!! Another notch in the one-should-not-be-texting when one's focus should be on more important things, I guess. Like if there is actually a frackin' elevator in front of you!!!!