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It seems to me that essentially, you are arguing against the reality that has resulted from the evolution of life on Earth, based upon boundaries between different levels of life that are purely arbitrary.
You are arguing about what should have happened, instead of what actually happened as a consequence of evolution, using arbitrary delimiters to make the argument sound reasonable.
The fact is that we have evolved to desire meat in our diets, and as we have become more civilised, we have tried to satisfy that desire in the best overall way; farming meat means that extra animals are bred to meet our needs, instead of hunting from the natural pool of animals, and so don't risk hunting them to extinction as nearly happened with the North American Bison.
You also seem to base your argument upon the basis of an organism's capability to experience what you have defined as pleasure and it seems to me that you're using an arbitrary point on a scale of sentience to define pleasure. Are the smallest mammals, or fish, capable of feeling 'pleasure'?
Would it be ok to farm voles and shrews for meat then? Is fish farming ok?
It's sad that the head of a goat on a plate traumatized you so much as a kid, but that's no excuse to insult fellow humans because of your personal preferences. Perhaps you should seek a therapy to relieve you from that, understandably, traumatic event. But don't make your own belief system some kind of moral standard, it's clearly not.
just keep in mind that plants will generate a lot of toxins when killed, and if you only eat vegan, then good luck in not getting sick very early
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life-cycle including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood and adolescence and for athletes.ADA’s position and accompanying paper were written by Winston Craig, PhD, MPH, RD, professor and chair of the department of nutrition and wellness at Andrews University; and Reed Mangels, PhD, RD, nutrition advisor at the Vegetarian Resource Group, Baltimore, Md....Vegetarian diets are often associated with health advantages including lower blood cholesterol levels, lower risk of heart disease, lower blood pressure levels and lower risk of hypertension and type 2 diabetes, according to ADA’s position. “Vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Vegetarian diets tend to be lower in saturated fat and cholesterol and have higher levels of dietary fiber, magnesium and potassium, vitamins C and E, folate, carotenoids, flavonoids and other phytochemicals. These nutritional differences may explain some of the health advantages of those following a varied, balanced vegetarian diet.”
cattle meat is murder
Hi all, while I can understand that some people have scruples eating animals, my opinion is that it is a purely personal decision not to eat them. To me it has no moral/environmental justification.
..Use of science to show humans are more worthy of living than animals..
you choose to kill plants, I choose to kill animals, so that makes you morally better than me? Clearly not, we're both "killers".
Please, inform yourself better about diabetes, perhaps then you can make qualified comments about this metabolic imbalance, instead of stating ignorant (in the sense of not having knowledge of...) opinions.
I stand by my point, veganism is detrimental for the human organism and it has nothing to do with morals, to live you have to kill or harm, and to me it doesn't matter if you kill an onion or a rabbit. Life is life.
I've asked this question before and didn't get an answer and I doubt I'll be seeing one anytime soon. But just for the sake of argument, I'll ask it again. Where do we draw the line?
Ethos, I think they draw the line in this way:if it is cute, has eyes, extremities and moves fast enough so that it can be noticed by the human eye, then it must be human... If it doesn't move, doesn't cry when harmed, then it must be a rock.
So your thropic level thing is null and void to my understanding.
For the vegan diet, again, vegetals should be used mainly for medicinal issues, the substances contained in vegetals are very powerful and incorrectly used will harm you.
well, the environmental issue, AFAIK, about cattle breeding is methane and not CO2, but then no one takes into account on how much more humans fart when we eat vegetals vs. meat. The methane issue is a reason why I stick to pigs and poultry, whenever possible from organic breeding.
You don't understand the feelings of a plant, nor do I, but I presume that every living being wants to live.
It's sad that you apparently value the well being of other species more than yours.
Well and you enslave plants, take their babies (seeds) repeatedly away and blah, blah, blah, sounds ridiculous? Yes it does, just as your "justification"..And if you're killing a plant, I presume that it feels it, feels threatened and in some way suffers....if it is cute, has eyes, extremities and moves fast enough so that it can be noticed by the human eye, then it must be human... If it doesn't move, doesn't cry when harmed, then it must be a rock.
Quote from: AgimA on 27/12/2009 13:54:20Ethos, I think they draw the line in this way:if it is cute, has eyes, extremities and moves fast enough so that it can be noticed by the human eye, then it must be human... If it doesn't move, doesn't cry when harmed, then it must be a rock.Good one AgimA,......ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,......And I think I know where all the rocks are located, if you get my drift???
In hell? On the floor?
Quote from: AgimA on 27/12/2009 15:44:47In hell? On the floor?No,..............there is an expression: "They got rocks in their head", I think you know who I'm refering to.
You'll see that in the future the same type of people will join the PETR, People for the Ethical Treatment of Robots and rant about on how mistreated those industry robots are and how we enslave them and that they're not here for our use.BTW, I just noticed that this is a science forum, now I wonder what was the intention of the OP in posting his diatribes in it!?
Quote from: AgimA on 27/12/2009 16:02:36You'll see that in the future the same type of people will join the PETR, People for the Ethical Treatment of Robots and rant about on how mistreated those industry robots are and how we enslave them and that they're not here for our use.BTW, I just noticed that this is a science forum, now I wonder what was the intention of the OP in posting his diatribes in it!?Yes my friend, and what about the ill treatment I give this POOR, POOR computer of mine?? Pounding away upon it's keys with little regard for it's senseabilities, how brutish!
CAN you stop eating for the sake of innocent animals and GOD !!???Fish Ok !! food chain of fish is very less .. it's Ok with fish not all other.
Why is it OK to eat fish but not other animals? Fish feel pain too.