Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: Eric A. Taylor on 28/04/2010 12:01:03
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I seem to remember in the 80's or maybe 90's some group claimed to have found Noah's Ark. Now they are making the same claim again, and in the same place!
Claiming to have found physical evidence of Noah's Ark in modern times would certainly qualify as an "extraordinary claim" (as Sagan liked to say) and would thus require extraordinary evidence.
Perhaps these religious artifact seekers should take a page from SETI's book. Over the years religious groups have made claims of finding undeniable physical proof of God's hand in creation. Every time the "proof" has been shown to be eather mistaken or out and out fraud. SETI has had some exciting times, with discoveries that were thought to be (and even now some could still have been) of intelligent origin. Every time it has sadly not panned out for whatever reason. SETI scientists know that if they publish "PROOF" of ET and later on other show that they were wrong or maybe even having lied, it will become much more difficult to be believed when they DO find ET. Not to mention making it harder to get more money (SETI is entirely funded by private donations. Not one government penny is spent on SETI)
If it turns out this really is Noah's Ark however we will have to rethink how we think the Earth works. For one thing it will have to be explained where all the water came from, and where it went after the flood. Some say it's under ground but this can't be. If there was that much water under ground (We're taking MILLIONS of cubic miles of water) we would have found it. Also if our understanding of geophysics is correct that much water under ground would come out onto the surface and stay. Earth's hydro-cycle is a closed system. A very small amount of water is lost every year to space. High up it's broken up by sunlight. The oxygen binds with itself to replenish the ozone layer and the hydrogen is lost to space, but far more water is added by tiny comets (several tons every year). In other words there is more water on Earth today than in Noah's time (about 6000 BC).
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The mediterranean sea did not exist at one time. The gap between Gibraltar and Africa opened and the sea was formed. This would have been fairly catastophic at the time but I'm not sure whether this was when man was around or not. I seem to remember (I mean learning - I'm not that old) that this drying and the filling happened more than once too.
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As one guy on the TV pointed out, it was found by ARKeoligists.
I have read that the Med filled up when humans were around to see it happen.
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It's interesting how many independent cultures have flood myths. But cultures from very arid regions that do not have periodic flooding do not seem to have flood myths.
If the entire human population was wiped out save 1 small group around 8000 years ago would it there be any evidence of it in the human gene pool? This bottle neck would also be apparent in other animals as well as Noah is said to have taken aboard just two of ever kind of animal.
The dimensions of the Ark are given in the Bible. 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide by 30 cubits high. 1 cubit is about .4572 meters so we get an Ark that is 137.16 by 22.86 by 13.716 for a volume of 43006.21076 cubic meters.
For comparison the RMH Titanic was was 269.1 meters long, 28 meters wide and 53.3 meters high. Quite a lot larger than the Ark. Interior volume was around 326,250 cubic meters (the 53.3 meter height is to the top of the funnels. I don't know how tall they were so assumed 10 meters so that 10 meters was subtracted to get the interior volume)
How many animals could you cram into a space of only 43,000 cubic meters? We can assume God did something to them to make them sleep so eating and ah....other things would not be necessary so you don't need to worry about food storage. After all you can't put predictor/prey animals together on a small boat and expect to have any peace quiet unless they are asleep.
Also if God is only going to flood a small area why not have Noah and his family (along with the animals) go to high ground?
If 1 story given, in the Bible as fact can be proven false with simple logic, what does that say for the rest of the Bible? Some stories in the Bible are probably just that. Stories told as object lessons (like the story of the Good Samaritan told by Christ).
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There is evidence that the human population was reduced to a very small number of individuals at one point in time, but it was a much longer than a few thousand years ago.
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Gonna need a bigger Ark ...
An MVP [Minimum viable population] of 500 to 1000 has often been given as an average for terrestrial vertebrates when inbreeding or genetic variability is ignored. When inbreeding effects are included, estimates of MVP for many species are in the 1000s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_population
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How many animals could you cram into a space of only 43,000 cubic meters? We can assume God did something to them to make them sleep so eating and ah....other things would not be necessary so you don't need to worry about food storage. After all you can't put predictor/prey animals together on a small boat and expect to have any peace quiet unless they are asleep.
Also if God is only going to flood a small area why not have Noah and his family (along with the animals) go to high ground?
If 1 story given, in the Bible as fact can be proven false with simple logic, what does that say for the rest of the Bible? Some stories in the Bible are probably just that. Stories told as object lessons (like the story of the Good Samaritan told by Christ).
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For one thing your human logic proved nothing but that you have been brainwashed in university.
Too hard to have the big animals as babes on the ARK during the flood,eh?
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100% of geological evidence shows a cataclysmic flood, deal with it.
The ONLY place where it does Not show this is in Unbelieving man's books and schools.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
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For one thing your human logic proved nothing but that you have been brainwashed in university.
Too hard to have the big animals as babes on the ARK during the flood,eh?
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100% of geological evidence shows a cataclysmic flood, deal with it.
The ONLY place where it does Not show this is in Unbelieving man's books and schools.
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PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
I don't think you are going to have too much success at bringing people round to your way of thinking by yelling at them and telling them they've been brainwashed.
If you are convinced that the Bible must be taken quite literally, why would you even care what other people think? Is it because you have some doubts, and you really don't want to hear anything that might challenge the things you've been told you must believe?
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How many animals could you cram into a space of only 43,000 cubic meters? We can assume God did something to them to make them sleep so eating and ah....other things would not be necessary so you don't need to worry about food storage. After all you can't put predictor/prey animals together on a small boat and expect to have any peace quiet unless they are asleep.
Also if God is only going to flood a small area why not have Noah and his family (along with the animals) go to high ground?
If 1 story given, in the Bible as fact can be proven false with simple logic, what does that say for the rest of the Bible? Some stories in the Bible are probably just that. Stories told as object lessons (like the story of the Good Samaritan told by Christ).
*******
For one thing your human logic proved nothing but that you have been brainwashed in university.
Too hard to have the big animals as babes on the ARK during the flood,eh?
*******
100% of geological evidence shows a cataclysmic flood, deal with it.
The ONLY place where it does Not show this is in Unbelieving man's books and schools.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
LOL
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I think they found the chariot belonging to Zeus too. One of the wheels was missing but it was definitely his.
[::)]
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How many animals could you cram into a space of only 43,000 cubic meters? We can assume God did something to them to make them sleep so eating and ah....other things would not be necessary so you don't need to worry about food storage. After all you can't put predictor/prey animals together on a small boat and expect to have any peace quiet unless they are asleep.
Also if God is only going to flood a small area why not have Noah and his family (along with the animals) go to high ground?
If 1 story given, in the Bible as fact can be proven false with simple logic, what does that say for the rest of the Bible? Some stories in the Bible are probably just that. Stories told as object lessons (like the story of the Good Samaritan told by Christ).
*******
For one thing your human logic proved nothing but that you have been brainwashed in university.
Too hard to have the big animals as babes on the ARK during the flood,eh?
*******
100% of geological evidence shows a cataclysmic flood, deal with it.
The ONLY place where it does Not show this is in Unbelieving man's books and schools.
*******
PeterAV
Every word of God is pure:
Here's something really funny. I'm an uneducated dult. I haven't been to college, or university. The only college I've been to is called Solano Community College to learn how to weld.
I do know how to read though, which is helpful in self education.
Critical, and logical thinking are very handy tools in everyday life. They can save you from con-people, religious fanatics, politicians and generally help you throughout life's decisions. I, (or anyone for that matter) can tell you a thing is true, but how do you know it really is? Do you base your decision on the trust you have in that person? If you had two conflicting stories, one told by a known criminal and one by a police office who do you believe. Is possible the crook is the one telling the truth?
Would you believe ANYTHING a White supremacist said about President Obama?