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I quoted a scholar. That is information. I shouldn't have to explain that.
This is an other reason I don't respond to you.
The preferred method of science is to do experiments, which can then be reproduced by others, in the same (or slightly different) conditions, to produce a confirmed, published and reproducible result.However, when it comes to an event in history (like the death and claimed resurrection of Jesus), this preferred method falls down. We can't just run experiments, rerunning history with variations - that is outside our control.Some areas of science are like that - Astronomy and Geology, for example. We can't rerun the history of the Earth, or create stars of our own*. So, when it comes to non-reproduce-able events, scientists adopt a modified method - they try to collect as much evidence as they can, from different sources, and attempt to build a credible picture. Other scientists will collect slightly different aspects of the data. But the goal is to produce a consensus view among experts in the field, applying the techniques of evidence and analysis. The consensus is often formed in the heat of fiery debate.Historical events fall into this area where we must apply a modified scientific method, to look at events that appeared in the past.While scientists have, at times resorted to insults to win debates, we don't permit that here.- Requiring evidence is not an insult- Setting a high bar for the evidence is expectedQuote from: Carl Saganextraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence- Some of the evidence quoted above is based on analysis of ancient texts, which can be rather opaque to those who don't read those languages.- While a coin minted during the reign of Nero is understandable by everyoneOverall, keep down the snide comments, and try to address the requests for evidence.*At least, in Astronomy, we can look into space, and see stars of different ages, and piece together their life history from looking at many different stars.- In Geology, we are (so far) very restricted in the number of other worlds we can look at to compare with Earth
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 23:10:21For example, "You made a statement to the effect that the Apostle's belief in resurrection was better proved than anything else from the period." No. I did not. I quoted a world renown scholar, Bruce Metzger who said, "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain ... Thanks for the meaningless clarification.Did you quote that scholar because you thought he was lying?That would be odd, because you have subsequently said you believe it.If I say " Einstein said E=MC^2", i am tacitly making that statement.I am certainly making a statement to that effect (I chose my words carefully)Do you not understand that "nothing is more certain" is equivalent to nothing is better proved?Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 23:10:21 quoted a world renown scholar, Bruce Metzger who said, "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain than that the disciples believed that, after being crucified, dead, and buried, Christ rose again from the tomb on the third day, and that at intervals thereafter he met and conversed with them.”And , in my original reply to that I pointed out the problemsFirstly" a world renown scholar,"Is the logical fallacy known as an appeal to authority.Secondly, what the apostles believed isn't the issue here- they might have been mistaken (they might have believed what they wanted to believe).Thirdly, and most importantly, the assertion you reported is obviously untrue."Nothing in history is more certain than that ..."Plenty of things in history are more certain than that- for example, the fact that Nero was emperor of Rome.(In fact, his statement is more general and more absurd. Is it really more certain than that, for example, "Queen Elizabeth was crowned in 1953"?)And yet you say you believe it...
For example, "You made a statement to the effect that the Apostle's belief in resurrection was better proved than anything else from the period." No. I did not. I quoted a world renown scholar, Bruce Metzger who said, "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain ...
quoted a world renown scholar, Bruce Metzger who said, "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain than that the disciples believed that, after being crucified, dead, and buried, Christ rose again from the tomb on the third day, and that at intervals thereafter he met and conversed with them.”
However, the resurrection of Christ is reproducible today.
Scientists cannot simply dismiss what this mass of humanity swear by.
This is a phenomenon. It is unprecedented.
Hundreds of millions of people, most of them unknown to the others, from every walk of life, rich and poor, of every color, nationality, young and old, educated and not educated,
he lives inside them, just as he promised he would.
Additionally, reading what has been handed down to us through the N.T. it is abundantly obvious that no human being ever spoke as he did. No one. Not even close. (Excluding those who have portrayed him in plays and in movies etc., repeating his words.) Try to find one example of anyone who expressed himself in words like he did.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/05/2020 17:14:19Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 16:05:44By the time you said I lack clear thinking, you had already told me to, "Tell the truth for the first time in your life" OK, show everybody where I said that.
Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 16:05:44By the time you said I lack clear thinking, you had already told me to, "Tell the truth for the first time in your life" OK, show everybody where I said that.
By the time you said I lack clear thinking, you had already told me to, "Tell the truth for the first time in your life"
Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 23:15:31This is an other reason I don't respond to you.Because I point out that you are wrong?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/05/2020 21:53:57Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/05/2020 17:14:19Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 16:05:44By the time you said I lack clear thinking, you had already told me to, "Tell the truth for the first time in your life" OK, show everybody where I said that.
I just pointed out a couple more errors you've made
please stop harassing me.
Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 23:43:40Additionally, reading what has been handed down to us through the N.T. it is abundantly obvious that no human being ever spoke as he did. No one. Not even close. (Excluding those who have portrayed him in plays and in movies etc., repeating his words.) Try to find one example of anyone who expressed himself in words like he did.We already wrote off that nonsense.He didn't speak English.The poetry of, for example, the KJB comes from the work of the translators.
I couldn't have found a more perfect example of the way you conduct yourself
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/05/2020 23:52:47Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/05/2020 21:53:57Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/05/2020 17:14:19Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 16:05:44By the time you said I lack clear thinking, you had already told me to, "Tell the truth for the first time in your life" OK, show everybody where I said that.
Quote from: duffyd on 09/05/2020 23:53:14 I just pointed out a couple more errors you've made Where?