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How can they jump from the former to the following ? :...The conscious awareness of the central motor command to the musclesHow can the CMC be conscious or aware ?
How can they equate the activity of the prefrontal cortex or the alleged PFC neuronal correlates of cognititive control with the volitional conscious aware cognitive control?
That mindful cognitive control does work through its prefrontal cortex correlates does not mean that the former is just the latter , or that they can be equated with each other .
Furthermore , we encounter the same materialistic logical fallacy or materialistic fundamental false premise when dealing with the interpretations of experiments regarding memory ,for example : equating neuronal correlates of memory ...with the latter, and hence memory is allegedly stored in the brain correlates of memory :Quantitative neuronal correlates of memory get equated with memory itself ,while the latter is a matter of qualitative subjective processes that cannot be reduced to or equated with their quantitative neuronal correlates, needless to add , since memory itself as a matter of subjective processes that encompass taste , subjective experiences, meaning , purpose, aesthetics , ethics , morality , ....cannot be quantified or "computed or stored " by their neuronal correlates.
See the following on the subject : Quote : "THE EVIDENCE FROM NEUROPHYSIOLOGY: ...If memories are somehow stored in brain cells or as modifications of the synaptic connections between them, then the structure of the synapses and the nervous system must remain stable over long periods of time. After all, the time span of human memory is often decades.Yet as Francis Crick writes: “It is believed that almost all the molecules in our bodies, with the exception of DNA, turn over in a matter of days, weeks, or at the most a few months. How then is memory stored in the brain so that its trace is relatively immune to molecular turnover?”.Chris Carter
"For Beauregard, this raises questions: “If physics fails to support biology, which discipline should rethink its position—physics or biology?
The Copenhagen interpretation is still the standard or orthodox one in QM .http://quantumenigma.com/controversy/
In the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics, observation takes place, for all practical purposes, as soon as the microscopic quantum object encounters the macroscopic screen. Other interpretations of quantum mechanics, attempting to go beyond practical purposes, consider observation to be more involved with the actual conscious experience of the experimental result.
Back when I studied quantum mechanics in graduate school it was generally implied that Copenhagen resolved all philosophical problems, that Copenhagen is the “right” interpretation... I can’t quite remember why we so blithly accepted the “collapse of the wavefunction”–everywhere, instantaneously.
The Copenhagen interpretation is, of course, all we need to describe the world for all practical purposes. And for a physics class, practical purposes are all that generally matter. But a physics student confronting someone inclined to take the implications of quantum mechanics to unjustified places will find Copenhagen’s for-all-practical-purposes treatment an ineffective argument.
Copenhagen. The “majority” interpretation, for decades. Not really an interpretation at all, but rather a (clearly non-physical) segregation of the world into the microscopic (in which there is reality, but it is observer-created reality), and the macroscopic (which was taken to be real). A human observer is not needed; a geiger counter will do just fine. Our authors [Kuttner & Rosenblum] correctly point out that the advance of technology now forces retreat from this increasingly untenable “interpretation.”
... How then is memory stored in the brain so that its trace is relatively immune to molecular turnover? ...
... a few of the body's cell types endure from birth to death without renewal, and this special minority includes some or all of the cells of the cerebral cortex ...
dlorde , Cheryl :Quote : " Conclusion:The results suggest that MRCP amplitude during movement execution is a neural correlate of perception of effort. This study was the first to provide direct neurophysiological evidence that MRCP amplitude during movement execution correlates with perception of effort. This finding supports the corollary discharge theory, which proposes that perception of effort is the conscious awareness of the central motor command to the muscles. Further studies using brain imaging and neuropharmacological techniques, are necessary to identify more precisely the brain networks and neurotransmitters underlying perception of effort."End quoteHow can they jump from the former to the following ? :...The conscious awareness of the central motor command to the musclesHow can the CMC be conscious or aware ?They equate the neuronal correlates of perception of effort (CMC ) with the conscious awareness of the perception of effort itself .They started from the following premise to conclude the above :Quote : "Perception of effort, the conscious sensation of how heavy andstrenuous a physical task is (Borg, 1998), is an important aspectof our subjective experience of volition.It is thought that the signal underlying perception of effort arises in the brain from corollary discharges of the central motor command.This corollary discharge theory suggests that perception of effort should be significantly correlated with the magnitude of central motor command." End quote .
MW interpretation of QM is just a desperate and pathetic attempt to rescue the deterministic materialism .
Quote from: DonQuichotteMW interpretation of QM is just a desperate and pathetic attempt to rescue the deterministic materialism .What is "MW interpretation"? If you were saying that it's "theory of interpretation of QM" then that makes no sense to me.
author=dlorde link=topic=52526.msg446169#msg446169 date=1418077445]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 08/12/2014 17:44:29Here below will you find the specific quote of Popper within its specific context :LOL! Seriously?There's no quote from Popper there, and in particular no mention of what you posted earlier as a Popper quote. It appears to be a verbatim excerpt from 'Science and the Near-Death Experience' by Chris Carter, including a physical description of an aspect of Popper's metaphysics - which basically repeats my explanation: that Popper wasn't a substance dualist but an interactionalist ("we are faced, not with a plurality of substances... <but a> pluralism of different interacting explanatory principles"), specifically physical fields and forces, and the bodies on which they act ("we have interaction between the four known and very different forces, and between forces and physical bodies"). More specifically, "the action of bodies upon bodies is mediated by fields — by gravitational and electrical fields. Thus like does not act upon like, but bodies act first upon fields, which they modify, and then the modified field acts upon another body."He presumably wasn't aware they're all aspects of underlying quantum fields, but at a higher level it's not an unreasonable model. However, it's all 'modern physics'; forces, fields, and matter. All material.Didn't you even read it before posting it? It's nothing to do with your magical immaterial consciousness dualism - an if Carter thinks so, he's an even bigger idiot than I thought - or have you now backtracked down to the level of the shaman who says quantum field theory itself is the work of spirits? Is that your thesis now, that QFT is non-physical, immaterial? That would be a delicious irony []
Here below will you find the specific quote of Popper within its specific context :
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 08/12/2014 18:17:31dlorde , Cheryl :Quote : " Conclusion:The results suggest that MRCP amplitude during movement execution is a neural correlate of perception of effort. This study was the first to provide direct neurophysiological evidence that MRCP amplitude during movement execution correlates with perception of effort. This finding supports the corollary discharge theory, which proposes that perception of effort is the conscious awareness of the central motor command to the muscles. Further studies using brain imaging and neuropharmacological techniques, are necessary to identify more precisely the brain networks and neurotransmitters underlying perception of effort."End quoteHow can they jump from the former to the following ? :...The conscious awareness of the central motor command to the musclesHow can the CMC be conscious or aware ?They equate the neuronal correlates of perception of effort (CMC ) with the conscious awareness of the perception of effort itself .They started from the following premise to conclude the above :Quote : "Perception of effort, the conscious sensation of how heavy andstrenuous a physical task is (Borg, 1998), is an important aspectof our subjective experience of volition.It is thought that the signal underlying perception of effort arises in the brain from corollary discharges of the central motor command.This corollary discharge theory suggests that perception of effort should be significantly correlated with the magnitude of central motor command." End quote .I don't think they are equating the perception of effort with volition. You are the one assuming the action and the feeling about it are one and the same. The perception of effort is the feeling or qualia associated with a physical or mental task that is difficult. Not unlike any other feeling - curiosity, confidence or satisfaction of figuring out an answer, surprise, doubt or worry that you may have over looked something, confusion, relief, etc.
author=cheryl j link=topic=52526.msg446175#msg446175 date=1418083049]Quote from: DonQuichotte on 08/12/2014 17:35:04 "For Beauregard, this raises questions: “If physics fails to support biology, which discipline should rethink its position—physics or biology? It doesn't always work that way.
A good example is Penrose. Even with the assistance of anesthesiologist Hammeroff in developing his theory of quantum consciousness, they were sent back to the drawing board multiple times when neuroscientists showed that aspects of their theory were not compatible with the empirical evidence about the structure of neurons or microtubules.
Stapp didn't have that problem, as he just ignored the interaction problem and the origin of his conscious agency, and neuroscience entirely, and not surprisingly, is irrelevant.
What' s this fuss of yours all about then ?
Quote from: DonQuichotteWhat' s this fuss of yours all about then ?Given what it meant I retract the statement.
Quote from: DonQuichotte on 08/12/2014 18:17:31... How then is memory stored in the brain so that its trace is relatively immune to molecular turnover? ...Quote from: timeshighereducation.co.uk ... a few of the body's cell types endure from birth to death without renewal, and this special minority includes some or all of the cells of the cerebral cortex ... http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/198208.article
... can you care to enlighten us about how such qualitative subjective memories that are a matter of qualitative subjective experiences , taste , preferences , aesthetics , morality , ethics ... can you tell us how they can be quantified or computed by the related or correlated quantitative brain activity ?
... some people with AD [ Alzheimer's Disease] do things that are totally uncharacteristic of personality before the disease. Swearing (yes, even precious sweet elderly ladies!), spitting, becoming socially inept and impulsive with inappropriate words or actions, and sexual advances may appear for some folks.
Furthermore , can you care to enlighten us about how such qualitative subjective memories that are a matter of qualitative subjective experiences , taste , preferences , aesthetics , morality , ethics , ...can you tell us how they can be quantified or computed by the related or correlated quantitative brain activity ?, let alone stored : how can the qualitative arise from the quantitative then ? And how can the latter compute quantify or store the former ? : what makes you make that inexplicably magical jump then ?Right , materialism does that to you , not empirical evidence .
What are you talking about ? How do you know that ?Didn't we go through all that , on many occasions ? Stapp based his quantum theory of consciousness on the non-mechanical instantaneous causal efficacy of consciousness ,without any transfer of energy whatsoever ,on the physical brain through the observer effect interpretation of QM, at the level of calcium ions through the quantum Zeno effect ( Volitional effort of attention can maintain and sustain certain brain states in place , like when certain regularly observed or measured sub-atomic processes do not decay as a result , and thus remain in their initial state .) ,as well as through Hebb's law that states that neurons that fire together wire together : Schwartz ' non-materialist successful cognitive psychology or 4-steps therapy is based upon all the above and more , and it has been proved to work empirically : scanned brains of patients who underwent that therapy , before and after the therapy thus , showed significant changes in their brains accordingly through self-directed neuroplasticity .
... the brain is an ever changing theater thanks to neuropalsticity and self-directed neuroplasticity .... the assumption that the mind and its memories ...are just brain activity , and hence memories can be stored in the brain....is just a materialistic extension of the materialistic fundamental intrinsic claim that all is matter , including the mind = no empirical evidence .
Don't be silly : Carter just used that specific Popper's quote in relation to the fact that not only likes can act upon like..