[Europan Ocean]

Einstein was a great scientist and called upon to be a strategist, thankfully he rejected Nazism and worked for the USA, but he invented with his team, the first atomic bomb and advocated it's use.

Great at reason, it is said he did not believe in a god behind the universe. But he worked for WW2's biggest war machine, on the Christian nation's side.

Are you saying that Einstein worked for Germany? They were likely the most Christian nation at the time, since they actively persecuted non-Christian faiths.

The Christian nations would be the USA, Ireland, Poland, all of Europe, but for Germany, who burned their Bibles, renounced the Christian faith in favour of bringing in their own third reign. They only kept some Gospels to criticize the Jews and to persuade Christians to turn.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Einstein was a great scientist and called upon to be a strategist, thankfully he rejected Nazism and worked for the USA, but he invented with his team, the first atomic bomb and advocated it's use.

Great at reason, it is said he did not believe in a god behind the universe. But he worked for WW2's biggest war machine, on the Christian nation's side.

Are you saying that Einstein worked for Germany? They were likely the most Christian nation at the time, since they actively persecuted non-Christian faiths.

The Christian nations would be the USA, Ireland, Poland, all of Europe, but for Germany, who burned their Bibles, renounced the Christian faith in favour of bringing in their own third reign. They only kept some Gospels to criticize the Jews and to persuade Christians to turn.

Just to let you know I agree with nearly everything you say, keep up the good work and never compromise on your faith or in what you believe is good and true!!

Blessings

Alan

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Albert  Einsteins Quotes On Spirituality

To bring up these quotations is an act of deception. They are used to support the idea that Einstein believed an a type of deity that he criticized.

A nice discussion of one quotation taken out of context, along with a critique, is at https://newrepublic.com/article/115821/einsteins-famous-quote-science-religion-didnt-mean-taught

How on Gods Clean earth can that ever be construed by the least moronic idiot to be a deception? It was word for word quotes direct out of the mouth of Albert Einstein'

Einstein did say if he believed in a God it would be the "God of the Dutch philosopher Spinoza, who was a deist. Einstein was rather vague about his belief in the divine seemly vacillating from that of an outright atheist to a that of a deist

[PhysBang]

Einstein was a great scientist and called upon to be a strategist, thankfully he rejected Nazism and worked for the USA, but he invented with his team, the first atomic bomb and advocated it's use.

Great at reason, it is said he did not believe in a god behind the universe. But he worked for WW2's biggest war machine, on the Christian nation's side.

Are you saying that Einstein worked for Germany? They were likely the most Christian nation at the time, since they actively persecuted non-Christian faiths.

The Christian nations would be the USA, Ireland, Poland, all of Europe, but for Germany, who burned their Bibles, renounced the Christian faith in favour of bringing in their own third reign. They only kept some Gospels to criticize the Jews and to persuade Christians to turn.

Just because they did things you don't like doesn't make them non-Christian.

[PhysBang]

Albert  Einsteins Quotes On Spirituality

To bring up these quotations is an act of deception. They are used to support the idea that Einstein believed an a type of deity that he criticized.

A nice discussion of one quotation taken out of context, along with a critique, is at https://newrepublic.com/article/115821/einsteins-famous-quote-science-religion-didnt-mean-taught

How on Gods Clean earth can that ever be construed by the least moronic idiot to be a deception? It was word for word quotes direct out of the mouth of Albert Einstein'

It is because there are many Christians out there who pass around "the words of Einstein" that are a) sometimes not Einstein's words or b) words taken out of context. There are many Christians in the English speaking world who have an industry of producing deceptive quotations.

Einstein did say if he believed in a God it would be the "God of the Dutch philosopher Spinoza, who was a deist. Einstein was rather vague about his belief in the divine seemly vacillating from that of an outright atheist to a that of a deist

Thank you for providing that caveat now. Note that before, in the context of evangelizing for a specific religion with a personalized deity, you presented Einstein's words as if they supported that religious belief.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

The  perverted idea that atheism is good and right and all religion is wrong and destructive are just historical nonsense?

I am defending Christianity only!

(My Quote=Alan McDougall)

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

http://inplainsite.org/html/atheism_or_christianity.html

The statistics that are the result of irreligious genocide stagger the imagination.

Make note that these deaths were the result of organizations or points of view or ideologies that had left God out of the equation. None of these involve religion. And all but the very last actually assert atheism.
 
A blight on Christianity? Certainty. Something wrong? Dismally wrong. A tragedy? Of course. Millions and millions of people killed? No. The numbers are tragic but pale in comparison to the statistics of what non-religion criminals have committed.

My point is not that Christians or religious people aren't vulnerable to committing terrible crimes. Certainly, they are. But it is not religion that produces these things; it is the denial of Biblical religion that generally leads to these kinds of things. The statistics that are the result of irreligious genocide stagger the imagination.

My source is The Guinness Book of World Records. Look up the category "Judicial" and under the subject of "Crimes: Mass Killings," the greatest massacre ever imputed by the government of one sovereign against the government of another is 26.3 million Chinese during the regime of Mao Tse Tung between the years of 1949 and May 1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary in July 1971 placed the parameters of the total death toll in China since 1949 between 32 and 61.7 million people. An estimate of 63.7 million was published by Figaro magazine on November 5, 1978.

In the U.S.S.R. the Nobel Prize winner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimates the loss of life from state repression and terrorism from October 1917 to December 1959 under Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev at 66.7 million.

Finally, in Cambodia (and this was close to me because I lived in Thailand in 1982 working with the broken pieces of the Cambodian holocaust from 1975 to 1979) "as a percentage of a nation's total population, the worst genocide appears to be that in Cambodia, formerly Kampuchea.

According to the Khmer Rouge foreign minister, more than one-third of the eight million Khmer were killed between April 17, 1975, and January 1979. One-third of the entire country was put to death under the rule of Pol Pot, the founder of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.

During that time towns, money and property were abolished. Economic execution by bayonet and club was introduced for such offenses as falling asleep during the day, asking too many questions, playing non-communist music, being old and feeble, being the offspring of an undesirable, or being too well educated. In fact, deaths in the Tuol Sleng interrogation center in Phnom Penh, which is the capital of Kampuchea, reached 582 in a day."

Then in Chinese history of the thirteenth to seventeenth centuries there were three periods of wholesale massacre. The numbers of victims attributed to these events are assertions rather than reliable estimates. The figures put on the Mongolian invasion of northern China from 1210 to 1219 and from 1311 to 1340 are both on the order of 35 million people. While the number of victims of bandit leader Chang Hsien-Chung, known as the Yellow Tiger, from 1643 to 1647 in the Szechwan province has been put at 40 million people.

China under Mao Tse Tung, 26.3 million Chinese. According to the Walker Report, 63.7 million over the whole period of time of the Communist revolution in China. Solzhenitsyn says the Soviet Union put to death 66.7 million people. Kampuchea destroyed one-third of their entire population of eight million Cambodians. The Chinese at two different times in medieval history, somewhere in the vicinity of 35 million and 40 million people.

[Europan Ocean]

Just because they did things you don't like doesn't make them non-Christian.

They no longer prayed to or worshipped the Holy Trinity in Nazism. Hitler wished for sake of persuasion to his cause, that Germany was Islamic. From Mein Kampf. He hated the conscience of Jews and Christians. I saw the translation of one of his speeches. Nazism rejected Christianity, and the periphery, JWs...

If Christians don't like something, it could be that it rejects Christ's qualities, love, compassion, conscience, truth. Then it is not Christian.

[PhysBang]

Just because they did things you don't like doesn't make them non-Christian.

They no longer prayed to or worshipped the Holy Trinity in Nazism. Hitler wished for sake of persuasion to his cause, that Germany was Islamic. From Mein Kampf. He hated the conscience of Jews and Christians. I saw the translation of one of his speeches. Nazism rejected Christianity, and the periphery, JWs...

If Christians don't like something, it could be that it rejects Christ's qualities, love, compassion, conscience, truth. Then it is not Christian.

You seem to be saying a lot of historically inaccurate things about the Nazis. I'm sorry that it makes Christianity look bad. The killing of people and the advocacy of killing people that Christians do in the USA currently makes Christianity look bad too. However, ignoring the facts doesn't help anyone.

[PhysBang]

The  perverted idea that atheism is good and right and all religion is wrong and destructive are just historical nonsense?

I am defending Christianity only!

Congratulations, you can cut and paste.

That atheists have done bad things doesn't absolve religious people from doing bad things. It doesn't absolve Christians from trying to deceive people into thinking non-Christians were Christians.

[Europan Ocean]

You seem to be saying a lot of historically inaccurate things about the Nazis. I'm sorry that it makes Christianity look bad. The killing of people and the advocacy of killing people that Christians do in the USA currently makes Christianity look bad too. However, ignoring the facts doesn't help anyone.

I honestly never heard the idea before, that Nazism was Christian. I only heard of some pastors who supported it, misusing the Bible.
The Pope had to apologize for not doing and saying more against it at the time. Apologies to the Jewish leadership.
Bonhoeffer and other Christians worked against it in Germany.

But to the point, where is there the quotation perhaps from an historian saying Nazism was or claimed to be Christian?

[Europan Ocean]

This wikipedia article says a few things about Nazis and religion, that they were against Christians and were a cult, so it was like religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany#Religious_aspects_of_Nazism

[IAMREALITY]

So by your perverse reasoning, anyone who believes in God is a simpleton making you an atheist by default into a highly intelligent exalted enlightened being. There are countless scientists that by comparison to you, with IQ's that far exceed yours that believe in a creator, God.

Here is just one list of them?

http://www.famousscientists.org/25-famous-scientists-who-believed-in-god/

There's nothing perverse about my reasoning.  In fact, everything I said there is right.  You simply can't handle it. 

And I said an advanced alien race would view us as simpletons due to our reliance on religion to explain reality.  And they would.  And I don't necessarily fault some of these scientists, due to the mass brainwashing they were subjected to both by family and society.  And We've learned much since then, and now know that silly magic man in the sky isn't required to explain anything.  I mean, like friggin anything at all.  Just a completely outdated concept.  But unfortunately, most alive right now still were subjected to the mass brainwashing at a time when the silly little magic man in the sky was still necessary, so it will take a few generations for the new awareness to take over.  But mark my words, it will.  Every advanced race as it progresses, as it learns, will ultimately toss religion aside as an explanation for anything, if they had ever adopted the silliness to begin with.  Because with knowledge, with awareness, comes the realization that it is nothing more than a fairy tale for children, and a crutch for those too weak to handle that we are merely alone, on our own, in the vast great universe.   

There is no 'god'.  That's a fact to those of us that have become aware.  And no, atheism doesn't make one into a super intelligent exalted being.  But those that find atheism through enlightenment are definitely more aware of reality than those still trapped in the delusions of religion.  That is fact as well.  And when I say there is no god, I mean no god in any sort of an established religion sense, in a "oh magic man in the sky hear my prayers" sense.  I won't rule out there being some sort of what I call 'fabric of wisdom' that's inherent throughout everything.  But it definitely wouldn't be sentient or able to actively assist you in any way, or kill some while letting others live, or knock up some virgin just so he could have his subjects kill the baby years later so that the kid can fly sideways off the earth into 'heaven' (I love that flying sideways imagery, looking from space, as the mere mortal dude jesus 'ascended' to heaven lmao.  My sons crack up at that too!), so that all sinners who then believed in this malarkey would automatically be forgiven for their many transgressions.  It really is all quite silly. 

But brainwashing is also a quite powerful manipulator, that can take hold in even the brightest minds.  And mental weakness, the inability to handle the concept of being alone and on our own, is so strong an influence in most as well.  So yeah, I totally understand why so many are slaves to the silliness.  But that doesn't make it any less silly.  And the aliens would still find them all to be as simple as we view cavemen to be.  And oh, not that it matters all that much, but I've had several professional IQ tests done throughout my life (yes, real, hours long, in a sound proof room IQ tests) that placed me higher than Einstein and wayyyyy into the genius category.  Deal with it.  But nah, I'm nowhere near as accomplished as he, so I would never claim to be smarter.  But awareness is my forte, this vision to see things for what they are, to just 'know' certain things.  Hence, my moniker and identity.  I have it for a reason.  And that deep beyond what you could ever possibly see awareness gift that I have, shows me without doubt the silliness of religion in our society.  How feeble and weak an explanation it is.  How Science has since overcome it and how it technically will be on its way out. 

Those that believe are dinosaurs.  They have only so much more time left to roam.  But the world will be ruled by atheism, science, logic and reality, in due course.  It will take a few more generations, but the process has begun.  And though you don't realize it, can't probably comprehend it, that is actually a very, very good thing.  There is no good that religion can provide that atheism can't.  But so much more devastation, evil deeds, ignorance, bias and hatred that religion is guilty of that atheism finds no need for.  Atheism is a good thing.  god and religion is not.  And one last statement, you said something about us only being biological beings.  Well guess what, that is all we are.  You show yourself guilty of the mental weakness I referenced above merely by stating your aversion to the concept, as if it would be such a horrible thing to have to accept.  But that's your brainwashing talking.  Cause there's nothing wrong with the concept at all.  Especially since it couldn't be a more factual statement.  For we are but merely biological beings, of which the universe could give a rat's fat ass about, we live, do some stuff, we die, we're done.  That's life.  Get over it.

[PmbPhy]

There is no god and Richard Dawkins is his prophet?

A modern day Evangelist doing to others what he despises in them, forcing his beliefs down their throats a prime example of a hypocrite, what is he trying to achieve? He should go home and spend valuable time with his family and grandchildren, instead of going all over the world, convincing the already converted, who already are atheists like him.

If nothing else, there's one thing that I learned in this life which I know to be true and that's that you can't change a persons beliefs about God by presenting a logical argument.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

So by your perverse reasoning, anyone who believes in God is a simpleton making you an atheist by default into a highly intelligent exalted enlightened being. There are countless scientists that by comparison to you, with IQ's that far exceed yours that believe in a creator, God.

Here is just one list of them?

http://www.famousscientists.org/25-famous-scientists-who-believed-in-god/

There's nothing perverse about my reasoning.  In fact, everything I said there is right.  You simply can't handle it. 

And I said an advanced alien race would view us as simpletons due to our reliance on religion to explain reality.  And they would.  And I don't necessarily fault some of these scientists, due to the mass brainwashing they were subjected to both by family and society.  And We've learned much since then, and now know that silly magic man in the sky isn't required to explain anything.  I mean, like friggin anything at all.  Just a completely outdated concept.  But unfortunately, most alive right now still were subjected to the mass brainwashing at a time when the silly little magic man in the sky was still necessary, so it will take a few generations for the new awareness to take over.  But mark my words, it will.  Every advanced race as it progresses, as it learns, will ultimately toss religion aside as an explanation for anything, if they had ever adopted the silliness to begin with.  Because with knowledge, with awareness, comes the realization that it is nothing more than a fairy tale for children, and a crutch for those too weak to handle that we are merely alone, on our own, in the vast great universe.   

There is no 'god'.  That's a fact to those of us that have become aware.  And no, atheism doesn't make one into a super intelligent exalted being.  But those that find atheism through enlightenment are definitely more aware of reality than those still trapped in the delusions of religion.  That is fact as well.  And when I say there is no god, I mean no god in any sort of an established religion sense, in a "oh magic man in the sky hear my prayers" sense.  I won't rule out there being some sort of what I call 'fabric of wisdom' that's inherent throughout everything.  But it definitely wouldn't be sentient or able to actively assist you in any way, or kill some while letting others live, or knock up some virgin just so he could have his subjects kill the baby years later so that the kid can fly sideways off the earth into 'heaven' (I love that flying sideways imagery, looking from space, as the mere mortal dude jesus 'ascended' to heaven lmao.  My sons crack up at that too!), so that all sinners who then believed in this malarkey would automatically be forgiven for their many transgressions.  It really is all quite silly. 

But brainwashing is also a quite powerful manipulator, that can take hold in even the brightest minds.  And mental weakness, the inability to handle the concept of being alone and on our own, is so strong an influence in most as well.  So yeah, I totally understand why so many are slaves to the silliness.  But that doesn't make it any less silly.  And the aliens would still find them all to be as simple as we view cavemen to be.  And oh, not that it matters all that much, but I've had several professional IQ tests done throughout my life (yes, real, hours long, in a sound proof room IQ tests) that placed me higher than Einstein and wayyyyy into the genius category.  Deal with it.  But nah, I'm nowhere near as accomplished as he, so I would never claim to be smarter.  But awareness is my forte, this vision to see things for what they are, to just 'know' certain things.  Hence, my moniker and identity.  I have it for a reason.  And that deep beyond what you could ever possibly see awareness gift that I have, shows me without doubt the silliness of religion in our society.  How feeble and weak an explanation it is.  How Science has since overcome it and how it technically will be on its way out. 

Those that believe are dinosaurs.  They have only so much more time left to roam.  But the world will be ruled by atheism, science, logic and reality, in due course.  It will take a few more generations, but the process has begun.  And though you don't realize it, can't probably comprehend it, that is actually a very, very good thing.  There is no good that religion can provide that atheism can't.  But so much more devastation, evil deeds, ignorance, bias and hatred that religion is guilty of that atheism finds no need for.  Atheism is a good thing.  god and religion is not.  And one last statement, you said something about us only being biological beings.  Well guess what, that is all we are.  You show yourself guilty of the mental weakness I referenced above merely by stating your aversion to the concept, as if it would be such a horrible thing to have to accept.  But that's your brainwashing talking.  Cause there's nothing wrong with the concept at all.  Especially since it couldn't be a more factual statement.  For we are but merely biological beings, of which the universe could give a rat's fat ass about, we live, do some stuff, we die, we're done.  That's life.  Get over it.

I have no difficulty handling what you say, I just disagree with you, how do you did you dig up that my disagreement is somehow bound up with not accepting your "Truth" , which is not my truth but yours?

It is a matter of opinion your reasoning is perverse and that is my stated opinion. You simply cannot alter reality by disbelief or belief reality, remain unaffected by what we believe or do not believe.

We know our universe is almost unimaginable ancient when compared to our the history of our civilisation. Thus it is logical given the vast boundless universe of untold billions of stars and even more planets that there might be other civilisation a billion years in advance of ours.

And they would have absolutely no problem convincing you they were Almighty God or make you bow down and worship them as deities.

So why not go a step further and imagine an intelligence that is beyond human comprehension , that has created the universe, set its boundaries and mathematic laws in which to sustain its existence.

If you could go back to the middle ages, with all the paraphernalia of our modern world and demonstrate some of it on the primitives, they would bow down and worship you as God incarnate.

God is just  a huge extrapolation on that reasoning. Our universe is bound up by cause and effect, but it can't go back forever at some point the must be something everlasting  outside the confines of time an  "Uncaused Cause" of all existence and that my friend is the Almighty God  who you so passionately dispise.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

False Advisors Teachers and Their Destruction

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction is soon unless they wake up in time and repent (Change and embrace all that is good and righteous)

This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise the authority of Almighty God.

They are bold and arrogant, But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals, they too will perish.

They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse do what the like regardless, in the dark and even in broad daylight. They are full of blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast. With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood!

They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam Satan son of Bezer,[f] who loved the wages of wickedness.

They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”

My Comments =Alan McDougall below

"If you have read this through then you will be without excuse on the Great Judgement Seat of Almighty God"

Fear God because he is a consuming fire, it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the "Living God" The beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. The Devil believes in God and he trembles. Vengeance is mine says the Lord God I will punish the wicked and I will reward those that do good and are righteous in their ways.

I am the Alpha and the Omega the Beginning and the End "I was" "I am" and "I always will be"

I am "The Ever- Existing One", my existence does not depend on your belief in me!

I gave you life and some of you are so arrogant that you spat it back at me.

There is a way that seems right to mere mortal man but the end thereof leads to his destruction (Eternal Death in hell)

I set before you two paths, one leads to life, the to other death, you choose which one you want to travel down.??

If God does not intervene in this sick world very soon, he would have to go back and apologise to Sodom and Gomorrah?

You might think you can do anything you like, but in that you are sadly mistaken, you will account for every action or inaction, every thought to a Holy and Righteous God who gave you life and a free will to choose goodness or evil.

Put you trust in Ricard Dawkins and I will put my trust in he who holds the universe in the palms of his hypothetical hands.

God is not a man , God is a Spirit, just because you cannot see him does not mean he does not exist, in fact, you exist inside the confines of Almighty God, something like fish does in the ocean and is not aware of the fact. He is all around you but you cannot see him or conceive of who he is because what separated you from him "is infinity".

Alan

[IAMREALITY]

Blah blah blah blah.  God is nothing, a nobody, a pos creation of the weak that causes the weak to commit evil in his name.  No good comes from that pos. Only evil.  Atheism is superior by far.  By far. 

God isn't real, not in the sense that you perceive him to be anyway.  That much is fact.  Yes, fact.  All those with heightened intellectual awareness know this.  He's a nothing, a nobody, a figment of imagination.  We live, we die, we're done.  Period. Religion is for the weak.  Those that believe are dinosaurs, and will be going extinct just the same.  Maybe then as a society we can finally progress. Cause all religion does is hold our intellect back. But no, he isn't real, he isn't a spirit, he exists not at all.  When you die soon (you're old right?) you're gonna be sooooo damn disappointed lol.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

Blah blah blah blah.  God is nothing, a nobody, a pos creation of the weak that causes the weak to commit evil in his name.  No good comes from that pos. Only evil.  Atheism is superior by far.  By far. 

God isn't real, not in the sense that you perceive him to be anyway.  That much is fact.  Yes, fact.  All those with heightened intellectual awareness know this.  He's a nothing, a nobody, a figment of imagination.  We live, we die, we're done.  Period. Religion is for the weak.  Those that believe are dinosaurs, and will be going extinct just the same.  Maybe then as a society we can finally progress. Cause all religion does is hold our intellect back. But no, he isn't real, he isn't a spirit, he exists not at all.  When you die soon (you're old right?) you're gonna be sooooo damn disappointed lol.

Keep on keeping on blah blah blahing yourself right into hell because you are making a great effort at achieving this!

[PhysBang]

So by your perverse reasoning, anyone who believes in God is a simpleton making you an atheist by default into a highly intelligent exalted enlightened being. There are countless scientists that by comparison to you, with IQ's that far exceed yours that believe in a creator, God.

Here is just one list of them?

http://www.famousscientists.org/25-famous-scientists-who-believed-in-god/

There's nothing perverse about my reasoning.  In fact, everything I said there is right.  You simply can't handle it. 

And I said an advanced alien race would view us as simpletons due to our reliance on religion to explain reality.  And they would.  And I don't necessarily fault some of these scientists, due to the mass brainwashing they were subjected to both by family and society.  And We've learned much since then, and now know that silly magic man in the sky isn't required to explain anything.  I mean, like friggin anything at all.  Just a completely outdated concept.  But unfortunately, most alive right now still were subjected to the mass brainwashing at a time when the silly little magic man in the sky was still necessary, so it will take a few generations for the new awareness to take over.  But mark my words, it will.  Every advanced race as it progresses, as it learns, will ultimately toss religion aside as an explanation for anything, if they had ever adopted the silliness to begin with.  Because with knowledge, with awareness, comes the realization that it is nothing more than a fairy tale for children, and a crutch for those too weak to handle that we are merely alone, on our own, in the vast great universe.   

There is no 'god'.  That's a fact to those of us that have become aware.  And no, atheism doesn't make one into a super intelligent exalted being.  But those that find atheism through enlightenment are definitely more aware of reality than those still trapped in the delusions of religion.  That is fact as well.  And when I say there is no god, I mean no god in any sort of an established religion sense, in a "oh magic man in the sky hear my prayers" sense.  I won't rule out there being some sort of what I call 'fabric of wisdom' that's inherent throughout everything.  But it definitely wouldn't be sentient or able to actively assist you in any way, or kill some while letting others live, or knock up some virgin just so he could have his subjects kill the baby years later so that the kid can fly sideways off the earth into 'heaven' (I love that flying sideways imagery, looking from space, as the mere mortal dude jesus 'ascended' to heaven lmao.  My sons crack up at that too!), so that all sinners who then believed in this malarkey would automatically be forgiven for their many transgressions.  It really is all quite silly. 

But brainwashing is also a quite powerful manipulator, that can take hold in even the brightest minds.  And mental weakness, the inability to handle the concept of being alone and on our own, is so strong an influence in most as well.  So yeah, I totally understand why so many are slaves to the silliness.  But that doesn't make it any less silly.  And the aliens would still find them all to be as simple as we view cavemen to be.  And oh, not that it matters all that much, but I've had several professional IQ tests done throughout my life (yes, real, hours long, in a sound proof room IQ tests) that placed me higher than Einstein and wayyyyy into the genius category.  Deal with it.  But nah, I'm nowhere near as accomplished as he, so I would never claim to be smarter.  But awareness is my forte, this vision to see things for what they are, to just 'know' certain things.  Hence, my moniker and identity.  I have it for a reason.  And that deep beyond what you could ever possibly see awareness gift that I have, shows me without doubt the silliness of religion in our society.  How feeble and weak an explanation it is.  How Science has since overcome it and how it technically will be on its way out. 

Those that believe are dinosaurs.  They have only so much more time left to roam.  But the world will be ruled by atheism, science, logic and reality, in due course.  It will take a few more generations, but the process has begun.  And though you don't realize it, can't probably comprehend it, that is actually a very, very good thing.  There is no good that religion can provide that atheism can't.  But so much more devastation, evil deeds, ignorance, bias and hatred that religion is guilty of that atheism finds no need for.  Atheism is a good thing.  god and religion is not.  And one last statement, you said something about us only being biological beings.  Well guess what, that is all we are.  You show yourself guilty of the mental weakness I referenced above merely by stating your aversion to the concept, as if it would be such a horrible thing to have to accept.  But that's your brainwashing talking.  Cause there's nothing wrong with the concept at all.  Especially since it couldn't be a more factual statement.  For we are but merely biological beings, of which the universe could give a rat's fat ass about, we live, do some stuff, we die, we're done.  That's life.  Get over it.

I have no difficulty handling what you say, I just disagree with you, how do you did you dig up that my disagreement is somehow bound up with not accepting your "Truth" , which is not my truth but yours?

It is a matter of opinion your reasoning is perverse and that is my stated opinion. You simply cannot alter reality by disbelief or belief reality, remain unaffected by what we believe or do not believe.

We know our universe is almost unimaginable ancient when compared to our the history of our civilisation. Thus it is logical given the vast boundless universe of untold billions of stars and even more planets that there might be other civilisation a billion years in advance of ours.

And they would have absolutely no problem convincing you they were Almighty God or make you bow down and worship them as deities.

So why not go a step further and imagine an intelligence that is beyond human comprehension , that has created the universe, set its boundaries and mathematic laws in which to sustain its existence.

If you could go back to the middle ages, with all the paraphernalia of our modern world and demonstrate some of it on the primitives, they would bow down and worship you as God incarnate.

God is just  a huge extrapolation on that reasoning. Our universe is bound up by cause and effect, but it can't go back forever at some point the must be something everlasting  outside the confines of time an  "Uncaused Cause" of all existence and that my friend is the Almighty God  who you so passionately dispise.

Even if this line of reasoning were strong, it would not follow that the "God" imagined would have ay of the characteristics that lead people to take up any kind of values. It would not promote anything like Christianity and it would not promote the oppression and murder of homosexuals and women.

[Alan McDougall (OP)]

So by your perverse reasoning, anyone who believes in God is a simpleton making you an atheist by default into a highly intelligent exalted enlightened being. There are countless scientists that by comparison to you, with IQ's that far exceed yours that believe in a creator, God.

Here is just one list of them?

http://www.famousscientists.org/25-famous-scientists-who-believed-in-god/

There's nothing perverse about my reasoning.  In fact, everything I said there is right.  You simply can't handle it. 

And I said an advanced alien race would view us as simpletons due to our reliance on religion to explain reality.  And they would.  And I don't necessarily fault some of these scientists, due to the mass brainwashing they were subjected to both by family and society.  And We've learned much since then, and now know that silly magic man in the sky isn't required to explain anything.  I mean, like friggin anything at all.  Just a completely outdated concept.  But unfortunately, most alive right now still were subjected to the mass brainwashing at a time when the silly little magic man in the sky was still necessary, so it will take a few generations for the new awareness to take over.  But mark my words, it will.  Every advanced race as it progresses, as it learns, will ultimately toss religion aside as an explanation for anything, if they had ever adopted the silliness to begin with.  Because with knowledge, with awareness, comes the realization that it is nothing more than a fairy tale for children, and a crutch for those too weak to handle that we are merely alone, on our own, in the vast great universe.   

There is no 'god'.  That's a fact to those of us that have become aware.  And no, atheism doesn't make one into a super intelligent exalted being.  But those that find atheism through enlightenment are definitely more aware of reality than those still trapped in the delusions of religion.  That is fact as well.  And when I say there is no god, I mean no god in any sort of an established religion sense, in a "oh magic man in the sky hear my prayers" sense.  I won't rule out there being some sort of what I call 'fabric of wisdom' that's inherent throughout everything.  But it definitely wouldn't be sentient or able to actively assist you in any way, or kill some while letting others live, or knock up some virgin just so he could have his subjects kill the baby years later so that the kid can fly sideways off the earth into 'heaven' (I love that flying sideways imagery, looking from space, as the mere mortal dude jesus 'ascended' to heaven lmao.  My sons crack up at that too!), so that all sinners who then believed in this malarkey would automatically be forgiven for their many transgressions.  It really is all quite silly. 

But brainwashing is also a quite powerful manipulator, that can take hold in even the brightest minds.  And mental weakness, the inability to handle the concept of being alone and on our own, is so strong an influence in most as well.  So yeah, I totally understand why so many are slaves to the silliness.  But that doesn't make it any less silly.  And the aliens would still find them all to be as simple as we view cavemen to be.  And oh, not that it matters all that much, but I've had several professional IQ tests done throughout my life (yes, real, hours long, in a sound proof room IQ tests) that placed me higher than Einstein and wayyyyy into the genius category.  Deal with it.  But nah, I'm nowhere near as accomplished as he, so I would never claim to be smarter.  But awareness is my forte, this vision to see things for what they are, to just 'know' certain things.  Hence, my moniker and identity.  I have it for a reason.  And that deep beyond what you could ever possibly see awareness gift that I have, shows me without doubt the silliness of religion in our society.  How feeble and weak an explanation it is.  How Science has since overcome it and how it technically will be on its way out. 

Those that believe are dinosaurs.  They have only so much more time left to roam.  But the world will be ruled by atheism, science, logic and reality, in due course.  It will take a few more generations, but the process has begun.  And though you don't realize it, can't probably comprehend it, that is actually a very, very good thing.  There is no good that religion can provide that atheism can't.  But so much more devastation, evil deeds, ignorance, bias and hatred that religion is guilty of that atheism finds no need for.  Atheism is a good thing.  god and religion is not.  And one last statement, you said something about us only being biological beings.  Well guess what, that is all we are.  You show yourself guilty of the mental weakness I referenced above merely by stating your aversion to the concept, as if it would be such a horrible thing to have to accept.  But that's your brainwashing talking.  Cause there's nothing wrong with the concept at all.  Especially since it couldn't be a more factual statement.  For we are but merely biological beings, of which the universe could give a rat's fat ass about, we live, do some stuff, we die, we're done.  That's life.  Get over it.

I have no difficulty handling what you say, I just disagree with you, how do you did you dig up that my disagreement is somehow bound up with not accepting your "Truth" , which is not my truth but yours?

It is a matter of opinion your reasoning is perverse and that is my stated opinion. You simply cannot alter reality by disbelief or belief reality, remain unaffected by what we believe or do not believe.

We know our universe is almost unimaginable ancient when compared to our the history of our civilisation. Thus it is logical given the vast boundless universe of untold billions of stars and even more planets that there might be other civilisation a billion years in advance of ours.

And they would have absolutely no problem convincing you they were Almighty God or make you bow down and worship them as deities.

So why not go a step further and imagine an intelligence that is beyond human comprehension , that has created the universe, set its boundaries and mathematic laws in which to sustain its existence.

If you could go back to the middle ages, with all the paraphernalia of our modern world and demonstrate some of it on the primitives, they would bow down and worship you as God incarnate.

God is just  a huge extrapolation on that reasoning. Our universe is bound up by cause and effect, but it can't go back forever at some point the must be something everlasting  outside the confines of time an  "Uncaused Cause" of all existence and that my friend is the Almighty God  who you so passionately dispise.

Even if this line of reasoning were strong, it would not follow that the "God" imagined would have ay of the characteristics that lead people to take up any kind of values. It would not promote anything like Christianity and it would not promote the oppression and murder of homosexuals and women.

You do not know or could know the thoughts and minds of a sentient being from a civilisation a billion years in advance of ours so your statement is meaningless speculation. We might be like cockroaches are to us, to be stepped on in disgust?

[PhysBang]

You do not know or could know the thoughts and minds of a sentient being from a civilisation a billion years in advance of ours so your statement is meaningless speculation. We might be like cockroaches are to us, to be stepped on in disgust?

That was my point.