Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: ukmicky on 13/08/2005 02:07:33
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I was unsure as to whether I should ask this question in case its taken as an attack on certain people. And in case you’re wondering its not.
However it’s a question that has gone through my head in the past so I am going to ask it.
If the subject went out of control admin can always close the topic.
Our genes/dna are like a blueprint as to what we are. Our genes control our height, skin colour, future diseases, intelligence sexual preference etc. so they must also determine whether someone is gay. So if there is a gay gene or a collection of genes that determine if you are going to be gay, can they be genetically passed on from one generation to the next.
And if there was a gay gene could that gay gene become dominate over the heterosexual gene.
IF YOU WISH TO ANSWER THEN PLEASE THINK AND BE SENSIBLE WITH YOUR REPLIES.
THANKYOU.
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A "gay gene" is obviously a suicidal gene, though many people have explained it's purpose in a post-Dawkin Selfish-Gene context, I couldn't do that debate justice. Several years ago the "gay gene" was "proven", two years later this research was debunked, though with far less media attention. Other people have suggested a connection to certain genes but an absolute connection has never been "proven" again for good reason.
You mentioned DNA determining which diseases you will develop. For most of these diseases the genes control a predisposition to diseases, there are always environmental factors to greater or lesser extents. In such a way there could be a gene or set that predisposes to gayness, but it's still suicidal and self-limiting.
If you want to read some gay-philosophy you might hear some arguments that we're all gay, or predisposed to it, and there's no sense looking for a gene to seperate "us from them."
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As you say the debate died a few years ago but new research has found that there could be a link between gay men and the genes past over from their fathers rather than their mother as was the case in the previous studies.
The genetic scans showed a clustering of the same genetic pattern among the gay men on three chromosomes -- chromosomes 7, 8, and 10.
They say these common genetic patterns were shared by 60% of the gay men in the study. This is more than what is expected by chance.
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supposedly there is a gene whcih causes a high rate of fertility in woeman which supposedly is the 'gay' gene. then you come down to the question is your destiny shaped by genes? in my opinion it isn't.
environmental factors in ones childhood are also big factors, such as growing up around more women.
science is religion
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As I have a lesbian daughter, I have done some reading on the matter. Pasycology seems to find a (missing) link with the parents. Of course not a 100% air tight case, but one of the suggested causes is a parent who is a poor example of his/her gender at a point in the child's life that is formative.
Take it for what it is worth, and I don't believe it is everything, but my ex-wife was not a loving caring mother or wife during my daughter's early years. And my daughter hates her.
I think we need to pay more attention to the art/science of parenting to have less troubled kids.
David
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I believe you are born either gay, straight or bi....but I also believe that a person can be ' turned ' under certain cirumstances.....I don't suppose many will admit but I also believe that everyone in their life at some point might think about or consider what it's like to change their sexual orientation...I think it's just natural curiosity.
Regarding the gay gene....well, I'm sure it exists as does the gene that makes you like certain foods and drinks, the gene that makes you a depressive or an extrovert or have any other type or predilection.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finstagiber.net%2Fsmiliesdotcom%2Fcontrib%2Ficw%2F003.gif&hash=f326f525e3f6c60d4ea3ecbb24d1df2a)Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Finstagiber.net%2Fsmiliesdotcom%2Fcontrib%2Ficw%2F003.gif&hash=f326f525e3f6c60d4ea3ecbb24d1df2a)
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quote:
[...]a person can be ' turned ' under certain cirumstances.....
I've studied some sociology... In general sociologists put more stress on environmental factors. When I read the quoted text I instantly remembered a term "situational homosexuality".
More information here: http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/situational_homosexuality.html
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My brother just bought a pair of jeans which look pretty gay ;-)
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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This is really an enormously complicated question in my opinion. It is a very challenging assignment for a researcher to demonstrate that the gay identity of an adult must be due to a gene- because how could you rule out the upbringing as a possible factor?
For example if you prove that children who are breastfed for a full year perform better on standardized tests- did you prove that there is something in breast milk that builds more complex brains? i do not think so. Other possible explanations: the closeness of the nursing experience somehow causes baby brains to grow faster. Or- women who are willing to breastfeed for a year are often simply the kind of women who are passionately devoted to the education of their children- it has nothing to do with the milk or the snuggling.
Having said this, my personal opinion is that gay identity is likely to have roots either in genetics or in early childhood experience. That is because i cannot see why adolescent humans would intentionally select an identity that subjects them to ridicule and hostility from many adults. Why choose the hard road? Don't most of us prefer to have it easy and be accepted? I think people are gay because they ARE gay, not because they want to be.
chris wiegard
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If i am wrong then someone with the medical degree tell me but the way i see it your born gay,
you can't make someone gay by the way you bring them up. because if that was the case then gay couples wouldnt be allowed to adopt straight children.
Its down to natural chemicals our bodies release and the way thay act on the brains which then determines if we are attracted to the opposite sex or not. and it is our genes which ultimatly determine how our bodies work.
and if it is down to our genes then the possibility has to be there for it to be passed on to future generation. Just like some of the hereditary mental disorders.
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I understand the curiosity and need to know where from a person's sexual orintation comes from. It is part of trying to explain ourselves and understand ourselves. Without arguing for either position, I would like to point out some obvious conclusions if certain assumptions are assumed:
If a gene causes gayness, then a gay person can say he was meant to be gay, and not forced into gayness by those who shaped his enviroment. It seems to me that this would be a more pleasing and self strengthing position to take and I would expect the Gay community to push for this conclusion as politically correct. (Please understand that Political Correctness does not equal scientific fact).
The problem is, if the above is found to be true, then hetrosexual couples that have babies in the future, might use some selection process to de-select those with the gay gene. This assumes that hetrosexual people would prefer to have hetrosexual children rather than gay ones. You can do a poll, and no, I am not a gay basher. But I think that would be the conclusion.
If so, then the gay community would have to either do a selling job on the hetrosexual community (have at least one gay baby), outlaw abortions or gay testing (not very likely), find ways of having gay babies themselves, or face the future with very few gay people.
Personally, I would not choose a gay baby. Though I know gays have made great contributions to society, much of their great work has been grown out of a great deal of pain. And so I would not choose that for my own child.
I do have a gay daughter, she has tried suicide several times. Her love for children: her nephews and nieces seem to be what keeps her with us in this world.
David
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I agree that the "gay gene" theory both leads to a more psychologically acceptable view of gayness AND leads to the possibility of hetero couples acting to eliminate the possibility of having gay children. It's troubling for me to imagine that future, because to me gayness is not an impairment like Cystic Fibrosis. It could be argued that editing genes to eliminate gay offspring could be an abuse of science similar to preventing the births of female children in China.
The only solution for certain situations is love, and i feel this is one of those cases.
chris wiegard