0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 17/10/2020 00:22:16Let's go slowly.Slowly is probably less needed than being precise, and you are being anything but in this post.QuoteTwo CD players taped together, CDs inside, not spinning, friction-less bearings.The external momentum as per the image.Two CD players taped together (or for that matter, any system of components, connected or not) can only have one angular momentum vector and one linear momentum vector. I can only guess that the picture shows one of each, but lacking labels, I'm left guessing.So let's say the top vector is the angular momentum vector, which means the assembly is tumbling forward (rolling away from the point of view (PoV). If that's the case, the CDs are also spinning with the players just like the seatbelted occupant of a tumbling car must rotate with the car. So saying the player has angular momentum but the disks do not (are not spinning) is a contradiction. It could be done if the player angular momentum was parallel to the disk rotation axis, but the picture shows a vector perpendicular to it.The lower vector is then the linear momentum vector, which means the thing is moving to the right.QuoteWhat happens?The CD players rotate, the CDs inside do not rotate.Impossible. The CDs are not free to remain stationary if the case is tumbling like that. Perhaps you need to attempt a more precise description of what you have in mind. It would also help if you say if the CD players are facing the same way or opposite each other. The picture shows only one of them, not two taped together.QuoteAny translation?The vector at the bottom indicates a translation to the right. If I guessed wrong which was which, then the top vector indicates a translation to the left, and the bottom vector indicates rolling towards the PoV.I would think for simplicity you'd have the thing start with zero linear momentum, but in fact you didn't specify it at all except for the hints from the unlabeled vectors in the picture. If they mean different things, you should make them different colors. If you meant them both to be angular momentum, then it's wrong since an object can have only one angular momentum vector.
Let's go slowly.
Two CD players taped together, CDs inside, not spinning, friction-less bearings.The external momentum as per the image.
What happens?The CD players rotate, the CDs inside do not rotate.
Any translation?
Halc,yes, I do not have time to write long responses every day.I found some time, here it is.Let us consider two CD players with feet sides attached, taped, CDs not spinning.CDs are either locked as a rigid body or they have friction-less bearings.We apply the external forces as per the image, in the CDs parallel plane.The plane goes through the feet touching points.
This is what I wrote in the post #369:
Let us consider two CD players with feet sides attached, taped, CDs not spinning.CDs are either locked as a rigid body or they have friction-less bearings.
We apply the external forces as per the image, in the CDs parallel plane.
I want to create as simple scenario as possible.Let us assume friction-less bearings.The red arrows are the external momentum, in the plane as described.
Only CD players will rotate there is no friction to start CDs rotation.The system is 'ideal', well balanced, no tumbling.Is this understandable?
Quote from: puppypower on 15/10/2020 12:17:45 And why hasn't the status quo altered the rest of the theory to accommodate the implication of a moon sized object within the earth spinning faster than the surface? Because it doesn't actually make a difference to us here on the surface.You would need to explain exactly what "theory" you think needs updating.Obviously the theory that they used to predict the rotation of the core does not need to be updated due to the rotation of the core.What do you think they have got wrong?
And why hasn't the status quo altered the rest of the theory to accommodate the implication of a moon sized object within the earth spinning faster than the surface?
I envision the rotation of the huge and heavy iron core, dragging the rest of the earth through viscoelastic friction. If I placed a drill mixer in the center of a bucket of fluid, the friction at the center will cause the entire bucket of liquid to move with the mixer. If I rotate the bucket at the same time, as log as the bucket is going slower than the mixer, it will be dragged along by the mixer.
It is based on the magnetic side of the EM force
The oxidation of the iron core, via ionic water; hydrogen and oxygen, shifts the EM force to the magnetic side; earth's magnetic field.
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 17/10/2020 03:49:11This is what I wrote in the post #369:OK, that's like over 40 posts ago, and plenty of suggestions from you since then of different scenarios.QuoteLet us consider two CD players with feet sides attached, taped, CDs not spinning.CDs are either locked as a rigid body or they have friction-less bearings.You need to spin the case then along the axis of rotation of the bearing then, not tumble it end over end as your vectors indicate.QuoteWe apply the external forces as per the image, in the CDs parallel plane.You identified those vectors and momentum vectors in the prior post. Now they're external force vectors. This is what I mean about being precise.OK, so you're imparting a spin to the thing counterclockwise, and the CDs do not spin with the case. Fine. That's just not what you said at all in the prior post. The thing spins faster than it would if the CDs moved with the case since the moment is lower.QuoteI want to create as simple scenario as possible.Let us assume friction-less bearings.The red arrows are the external momentum, in the plane as described.Now we're back to momentum again. You said force just above. The two are not the same. I'm assuming force since two forces can be applied, but a thing cannot have two angular momentum vectors.I see little hope of this going far enough to make your point if you cannot speak the language. The red arrows are not momentum if the thing spins counterclockwise. The momentum points at the PoV (at you).QuoteOnly CD players will rotate there is no friction to start CDs rotation.The system is 'ideal', well balanced, no tumbling.Is this understandable?Yes, if I ignore the parts about the arrows being momentum, which is just wrong.There is presumably no linear momentum, but you don't say that. The center of gravity (CoG) stays put. The think has angular momentum pointing at the PoV due to the torque applied to it. No net linear force is applied since the red FORCE arrows are equal and opposite. The angular momentum vector is not depicted.A CD player doesn't work like that, but a simple device with a disk on a frictionless bearing does. A real CD player (unlike an LP player) always maintains a constant linear velocity, which means it runs fast at first, and slows as the music plays. It's pretty complicated, and thus a poor choice for an example. We're going with your simple frictionless disk.
The think has angular momentum pointing at the PoV due to the torque applied to it.
It does not meter how the input is described, force or momentum, because what is more important is the output.
The input as force: 'm*a' means we need to find out how long the force was applied, all other details to find out the resulting velocities of all the parts of the system.The input as momentum: 'm*v' means we need to find out the collisions, what collided, where it went, at what velocities, ... again, all the details to find out the resulting velocities of all the parts of the system.
Can heat affect Earth's rotation?
The CD players system will start to translate in the direction of this angular momentum.Do you agree?
Quote from: puppypower on 17/10/2020 13:33:30I envision the rotation of the huge and heavy iron core, dragging the rest of the earth through viscoelastic friction. If I placed a drill mixer in the center of a bucket of fluid, the friction at the center will cause the entire bucket of liquid to move with the mixer. If I rotate the bucket at the same time, as log as the bucket is going slower than the mixer, it will be dragged along by the mixer.Only because friction with the Earth stops this happening.//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEcTEs5hI4cAnd, isolated in space, there's no way that can happen to the \Earth, is there?Quote from: puppypower on 17/10/2020 13:33:30 It is based on the magnetic side of the EM forceBollocks.Oxygen atoms and oxide ions are non magnetic.Quote from: puppypower on 17/10/2020 13:33:30The oxidation of the iron core, via ionic water; hydrogen and oxygen, shifts the EM force to the magnetic side; earth's magnetic field.The sort of hogwash we would expect from someone who thinks that a 30% drop in GDP is a sign of a good economy.https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=80578.msg615231#msg615231And that homoeopathy workshttps://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=80667.msg615361#msg615361
Follow my logic.
It is not clear how this magnetic affect, needed to stabilize O-2, multiples into the magnetic field
Quote from: Jaaanosik on 18/10/2020 04:16:08The CD players system will start to translate in the direction of this angular momentum.Do you agree?You're confusing linear momentum with angular momentum. No, I do not agree.The angular momentum of the players is zero at first, and since it is a conserved quantity, the only way it can acquire angular momentum is via external torque, which you say is being applied to it (the presumably force arrows in the picture).
Are you saying the CD players system will not move int the direction of the angular acceleration?