Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Eternal Student on 21/09/2021 15:34:47
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Hi all,
Is there any research on the harmful effects of "Vaping" (using electronic cigarettes) compared to old fashioned tobacco smoking?
Anyone have a brief summary? Do we know if it increases cancer risks, risks of COPD or anything else?
Best Wishes.
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CDC says deaths and hospitalisations, but these seem related to non standard use eg THC https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html
Hopkins has info on increased risk of asthma and COPD https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/vaping-increases-odds-of-asthma-and-copd
Also, some ecigs contain nicotine which raises blood pressure and causes adrenaline spikes, both increasing risk of heart attack.
I think overall less risky than tobacco, but not risk free.
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It depends what you are vaping - just like old-fashioned tobacco had different varieties of tobacco with different additives.
The underlying theme is that when breathe anything with a composition departing significantly from 80% Nitrogen + 20% Oxygen), you are stressing your lungs, heart and circulatory system.
- If you add a complex mixture of combustion products, containing numerous carcinogens, you can expect emphysema, heart disease and cancer down the track
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for the comments. I'll follow those links.
I was just guessing that we haven't had e-cigarettes for 20 years yet and so there may not be any data available on the long term harm.
Why I'm interested: Well you can guess. I used to smoke but gave up some years ago and now manage on e-cigarettes. I delude myself into thinking they are a significant improvement.
It depends what you are vaping
Usual stuff but no fixed brand, whatever is in the shop I am close to. Nicotine content of 6mg/ml - 12 mg/ml. Tobacco flavouring. Most common contents seems to be vegetable oils and derivatives - Vegetable glycerine, propylene glycol, some alcohols including benzyl alcohol. Apparently some have traces of cyanide compounds like cyano-amines but not all of them. I tend to convince myself to look on the positive side - what harm can a vegetable oil do you? (In case there are young children reading - plants can do you a lot of harm, that's what tobacco was and there is a massive difference between eating them and inhaling them. I am just a person deluding themselves).
Best Wishes.
LATE EDITING: See later posts. It's not certain that there are vegetable oils in e-cigarette fluid, only that there are derivatives of vegetable oils.
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Hi again.
I've just scanned through those links from Colin2B. The newsroom article from the hopkinsmedicine.org states the following:
Among never smokers, current e-cigarette users were 75% more likely to report having COPD, compared with those who had never used them.
This seems to be an attempt to separate what is usually a complicated situation that muddies the water in any sensible analysis.
Specifically, it is clear that more people have lung disease if they vape. What has not been clear is whether they already had those issues caused by conventional tobacco use. In the limited time e-cigarettes have been available, most people who vaped did so as a replacement (or in addition to) to conventional smoking. This section of the article seems to be the clearest indication I have seen that just using e-cigarettes can increase risks of COPD.
Obviously there are still grey areas. For example, is it something else in the lifestyle of people who vape that is the underlying cause of the increased COPD risk? It seems likely that people who vape have chosen a lifestyle where they don't generally look after their health, so they may not go out jogging or eat enough vegetables etc. (Please read that last paragraph as something written by a person deluding themselves and not a scientist giving out unbiased advice).
Best Wishes.
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what harm can a vegetable oil do you?
Quite a lot if breathed in. There is a lung disease similar to silicosis which used to affect machinists. They would clean their machines eg metal working lathes with high pressure air lines and this created an aerosol of oil and also oil & water (called suds, used as a cutting lubricant). Breathed in this aerosol coats the lungs and causes breathing problems.
Not sure what in the so called vapour in vaping. As you say, we haven’t had 20 years of guinea pigs testing it!
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what harm can a vegetable oil do you?
aerosol of ... oil & water
If you aerosolize oil with high pressure air, it is chemically unchanged.
If you heat oil to temperatures around 200C in an e-cigarette, you are likely to break down the oil, and cause chemical reactions that would not occur at room temperature. You are likely to get an uncontrolled mixture of random chemical components, some of which are likely to enter the bloodstream.
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If you aerosolize oil with high pressure air, it is chemically unchanged.
If you heat oil to temperatures around 200C in an e-cigarette, you are likely to break down the oil, and cause chemical reactions that would not occur at room temperature. You are likely to get an uncontrolled mixture of random chemical components, some of which are likely to enter the bloodstream.
Good point evan. The oil on its own is bad enough.
Obviously there are still grey areas. For example, is it something else in the lifestyle of people who vape that is the underlying cause of the increased COPD risk? It seems likely that people who vape have chosen a lifestyle where they don't generally look after their health, so they may not go out jogging or eat enough vegetables etc. (Please read that last paragraph as something written by a person deluding themselves and not a scientist giving out unbiased advice).
You’re right. Confounding variables/factors are the bugbear of most medical and ‘health’ research.
Typically is example of nut consumption linked to better health, but when you look deeper you find the people are more health aware, jog, eat 5+ a day, better informed, etc
So are you saying you “don't generally look after your health, so don't go out jogging or eat enough vegetables etc” ;D
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Carbon monoxide is also generated in combustion, and that is harmful to one's health in many ways.
I like to comment to vapers that it is an accepted fact that broccoli is a healthy food, but we don't set it on fire and inhale the smoke for its health benefits. Inhalation of soot has no benefits for our health, but perhaps the low levels of oxygen in the smoke will cause the user to feel calm and relaxed.
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Both pastimes label the user as an antisocial idiot, but the label lasts longer with vaping because the idiot dies more slowly.
I had a brief interest in marketing prototype high nicotine e-cigs as a quick stimulant for aircrew and special forces but they are too much of a fire hazard for the former and clouds of fruity smoke tend to advertise the presence of the latter.
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Note that apart from the nicotine and the vegetable oil, most of the key ingredients in vaping pens are used by the medical community to administer drugs, and have been tested for long term use. Glycerine and propylene glycol are simply not a concern. The nicotine itself is somewhat toxic, but compared to smoking it, forget about it.
Vegetable oil sounds a bit weird, I wouldn't inhale that.
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Some madness going on here. There are no vegetable oils in vaping (except in the canabis ones which killed people). Vaping oil would lead to lipid pneumonia among other things.
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Hi.
There are no vegetable oils in vaping (except in the canabis ones which killed people).
That's probably my mistake. This is what I originally stated:
Most common contents seems to be vegetable oils and derivatives - Vegetable glycerine, propylene glycol, some alcohols including benzyl alcohol.
This probably should be re-stated. There are derivatives of vegetable oils but not necessarily vegetable oils. I'm fairly sure I have seen some bottles with vegetable oil in the ingredients but I may have been mistaken.
Best Wishes.
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Hi all,
Is there any research on the harmful effects of "Vaping" (using electronic cigarettes) compared to old fashioned tobacco smoking?
Anyone have a brief summary? Do we know if it increases cancer risks, risks of COPD or anything else?
Best Wishes.
Our young budgie fell of its perch and died when a friend vaped in my living room . Does that answer your question ?
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Note that apart from the nicotine and the vegetable oil, most of the key ingredients in vaping pens are used by the medical community to administer drugs, and have been tested for long term use. Glycerine and propylene glycol are simply not a concern. The nicotine itself is somewhat toxic, but compared to smoking it, forget about it.
Vegetable oil sounds a bit weird, I wouldn't inhale that.
Whether for nicotine or thc, there are can be many additives for flavor/aromas (menthol, limonene, eugenol, butane dione, isoamyl acetate, etc. etc.) as well as for setting/maintaining color, viscosity, vaporizability etc. Butane dione in particular has been implicated in lung damage ("popcorn lung")
Many of these compounds are generally recognized as safe when eaten or used externally, but route of exposure/administration is very important when considering toxicology. The GI tract is protected by mucus that keeps corrosive compounds away from sensitive tissues (ie hydrochloric acid in the stomach), and even is loaded with enzymes designed to break down potential toxins (very significant concentrations of monoamine oxidase in the GI tract, which renders many alkaloids orally inactive). Also, just recall: a little bit of an innocent and non-toxic compound like water in the lungs can be fatal (it's called drowning).
Here is a peer-reviewed report that indicates that inhaled propylene glycol can trigger mutations (in mice): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5641932/
Also, there was a rash of cases of lung damage (some cases being fatal) being reported in the US shortly before COVID become THE NEWS. If I understand correctly, one of the prime suspects (I don't know if it was confirmed), was vitamin E acetate, which was used as a diluent in illegally produced thc vape pens (it has similar viscosity and vapor pressure as thc), and while vitamin E acetate is perfectly fine to eat or as a component of creams/lotions, apparently inhaling significant quantities of it majorly ƒµçk$ up the lungs!
It's almost certainly safer to vape than to smoke, but we know how bad smoking is, and there are already hints that vaping isn't much better.
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I've Quit smoking Hundreds of time.
It's very easy to Quit!
But once i convinced myself that I'm an Addict & accepted the fact that I'm kind off a Loser...then i simply surrendered to my desires & was quite satisfied and at inner peace with myself.
😇
Ps - I didn't Quit...i eventually just got fed up & bored of it & left it.
Hence i switched to Caffeine.
☕
Fun Fact - Approximately 5 million people each year Quit Smoking Globally...
by Dying!
🚭
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Two issues here.
1. the labels on the vaping products are often not truthful. Remember they are often made by people who do not read English.
2. any time you inhale smoke you introduce carbon monoxide to your lungs and into your bloodstream. Bad idea!
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. Glycerine and propylene glycol are simply not a concern
The degradation products are.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7154799/
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1. the labels on the vaping products are often not truthful. Remember they are often made by people who do not read English.
The labels are written by people who can read (or write) English.
How truthful they are is not determined by the linguistic fluency of the maker, but by their honesty.
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While the original post is from two years ago, the topic of vaping and its health effects remains relevant. Research in this field continues to evolve, but as of my last knowledge update in January 2022, vaping was associated with certain risks.
It's important to note that new research findings may have emerged since then, so I would recommend checking the latest studies and reports for the most up-to-date information on the harmful effects of vaping. And if you're interested in exploring alternative ways to relax, you might consider looking into the <site removed>. Stay informed and make informed choices regarding your health.
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Absolutely, the vaping debate is a bit of a maze. I've got a cousin who switched to vaping from smoking. He says he feels better, but he's still a bit wary about what we don't fully understand yet, like the long-term effects. Every now and then, there's a new study or headline that makes us both scratch our heads.
I remember once we were hanging out, and he showed me his vape pen from <the web>. He was into the different flavours and stuff, but he also mentioned concerns about what's actually in those liquids. It's a bit of a trade-off, I guess.
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Hmmn!
Vaping & Gummies & what not.
What are the Guidelines(if any) provided by the NHS w.r.t. All of this?
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I've got a buddy who's made the switch, too, and he swears by it for feeling better overall. But like you said, there's still that lingering uncertainty about the long-term effects.
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The lung has not evolved to process an atmosphere of dense particulates, however chemically neutral they may be. The fact that they have an odor means that they are not chemically inert, so vaping cannot be good for you.
Nicotine is not particularly toxic in the quantities usually inhaled but it is addictive and will eventually damage your bank balance and render you dependent on the drug trade. Longterm it will produce all the damage associated with high blood pressure and sustained tachycardia.
The waste products of tobacco smoking are biodegradable. A dead vape is about as ecofriendly as a broken mobile phone.
Only schoolboys and idiots would start to use either.
About 15 years ago I looked at a possible market for vapes among airline pilots who were addicted to cigarettes: approach and landing after a long cruise phase requires a considerable step in mental activity and awareness, which can be aided by a shot of nicotine. Problem is that the exhalate is just as irritating as tobacco smoke to the other crew, and it turns out that vapes are possibly a greater fire hazard than ciggies - a self-destructing faulty vape can't be extinguished with water or dry powder, and will produce toxic fumes from the plastic if it doesn't explode first. A cup of coffee or a piece of nicotine gum has none of these disadvantages.
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The biggest problem is that there are not many studies about the harm it does to your body. Also, vaping was discovered not so long ago, so we can not find out how vaping affects the body in the long term. On the other hand, tobacco has been used for centuries, and plenty of studies have been done about its harm. We can not say the same about vaping. I vape. I have been smoking cigarettes for seven years now, and several months ago, I discovered vaping. I still think that vaping is harmful to your body, but I'm pretty sure that it is not as dangerous as tobacco. I'm convinced about this because before I started vaping, I started reading about this stuff, especially about what vape juices contain. And I can say that it contains fewer harmful elements than cigarettes. If you also want to read this information, you can see here (https://nexussmoke.com/products/brixz-bar-nyc-9000-puff-5-disposable-vape).
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" Due to nicotine content and the unknown long-term harms, vaping carries risk of harm and addiction for children. The health advice is clear: young people and those who have never smoked should not vape. We have a duty to protect our children and young people from the potential harms associated with underage vaping, while their lungs and brains are still developing. "
Source - https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tobacco-and-vapes-bill-2024