Naked Science Forum

Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: R_Leakey on 14/04/2018 21:21:24

Title: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: R_Leakey on 14/04/2018 21:21:24
Imagine, the age of 7th century BCE. When natural philosophy just started. There are two philosopher friends: Sam and Harry. Sam is sceptic and he argues that there is no another planet and no extraterrestrial lives because none visits us. Harry argues that not one or few but there are many planets in the universe and there are many sorts of life. He says some lives are very inferior to human beings and some living in hellfire. They cannot escape from the hellfire thus they canít visit Earth. He continues to say that there are very superior lives than human beings and their age can be counted only in space-time. Hundred x thousands (100,000) of human year is just a day for them. Even though they travel to Earth, we may not know!
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2018 21:29:56
Given the state of knowledge in the 7th century BCE, Sam would be more than justified in doubting the existence of other worlds like Earth and thus extraterrestrials. It was not even known at that time that the Earth was a planet itself. For all anyone knew back then, Mars, Venus, Jupiter and the other planets were just points of light that moved around in the sky.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: R_Leakey on 14/04/2018 22:03:09
This is my first time at this forum. I am still technically unfamiliar to use this forum. I don't know how to reply and to use codes. Any way I am trying and hope it works. Thanks to the first replier, I don't know who has replied but thanks. I am waiting for more replies from professionals. Please, imagine that people knew the planet as Earth. Planet was called some other name rather than English term planet since there was no English language. So, please avoid to judge them that they  had no idea of planet and aliens in 7th century BCE.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2018 23:21:13
This is my first time at this forum. I am still technically unfamiliar to use this forum. I don't know how to reply and to use codes. Any way I am trying and hope it works. Thanks to the first replier, I don't know who has replied but thanks. I am waiting for more replies from professionals. Please, imagine that people knew the planet as Earth. Planet was called some other name rather than English term planet since there was no English language. So, please avoid to judge them that they  had no idea of planet and aliens in 7th century BCE.

So basically you're asking us to imagine people from the 7th century BCE that did not have knowledge consistent with that time period? Why bother mentioning what time period they were from at all then?
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: R_Leakey on 14/04/2018 23:56:31
Shall we concentrate on the question please rather to divert in different directions? Yes, the date 7th BCE is important because the so-called Natural Philosophy or Metaphysics started from that age. Let me remind you that Babylonians had already identified some planets 2nd millennium BCE. You have no idea that Vedic Indians had already assumed that the Earth might be spherical almost first millennium BCE. In the Vedic rituals it has been written that even though we perceive the Sun arises and sets but actually it does not. Post-Vedic Hindu scriptures talk about 9 planets. However, the ancient astronomy was geocentric, which is not question here. The question is not my sole imagination but it is based on certain metaphysical thought of 7th century BCE.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Kryptid on 15/04/2018 00:05:45
Shall we concentrate on the question please rather to divert in different directions?

Obviously, the evidence that is (and is not) available to such ancient people is going to be critical in determining whether their conclusions are logical or not.

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Yes, the date 7th BCE is important because the so-called Natural Philosophy or Metaphysics started from that age. Let me remind you that Babylonians had already identified some planets 2nd millennium BCE. You have no idea that Vedic Indians had already assumed that the Earth might be spherical almost first millennium BCE. In the Vedic rituals it has been written that even though we perceive the Sun arises and sets but actually it does not. Post-Vedic Hindu scriptures talk about 9 planets. However, the ancient astronomy was geocentric, which is not question here. The question is not my sole imagination but it is based on certain metaphysical thought of 7th century BCE.

Are we assuming that Sam and Harry exist in a world where other planets have definitely been discovered? If not, then I would still say that Sam is closer to having the more logical view, since at least his claims are falsifiable while Harry's are not. If so, then both Sam and Harry are making non-scientific statements. Sam for denying observed scientific fact, and Harry for making statements that have no scientific support at all.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: R_Leakey on 15/04/2018 00:20:35
Sorry Dear, I am tired of your replies! Thanks for your contribution and eating my brain!
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Kryptid on 15/04/2018 00:23:11
Sorry Dear, I am tired of your replies! Thanks for your contribution and eating my brain!

You're already finished talking about this? The thread is barely a day old.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: R_Leakey on 15/04/2018 00:25:51
I am expecting reply from sane people!
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Kryptid on 15/04/2018 00:28:44
I am expecting reply from sane people!

What did I say that was not sane?
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Colin2B on 15/04/2018 04:44:30
I am expecting reply from sane people!
@Kryptid is one of our most sane contributors, what leads you to believe he is not, based on his replies?
It would appear you are not interested in logical answers to the question you pose.
If you are not interested in open discussion of your question we can move this thread to one of the Ďlighterí sections of the forum.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Bill S on 15/04/2018 13:56:00
Hi, R Leakey,

Itís always encouraging to welcome new posters, but sad when their initial contact seems not to go well.

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This is my first time at this forum. I am still technically unfamiliar to use this forum.

Iíve been posting on TNS since 2010 and am still struggling with many features.  Stick with it and I bet youíll overtake me. 😊

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Sorry Dear, I am tired of your replies!................ I am expecting reply from sane people!

As you posted in Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology, I think itís quite reasonable for people to try to establish a degree of clarification with regard to your question.  Thatís really the only way to work towards any realistic semblance of a ďscientificĒ response. 

Maybe, questioning respondersí sanity is not the best way forward.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: jeffreyH on 15/04/2018 16:43:26
Giordano Bruno, a Franciscan monk, was burnt at the stake in 1600. His heresy was to suggest that not only the universe was infinite in extent but all the stars were like our own sun with solar systems much like ours. This was a position also held by the British astronomer Thomas Digges. I have no evidence what your protagonists would or would not have known but I can hazard a guess it was less sophisticated than that held by seventeenth century thinkers.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: saspinski on 15/04/2018 17:56:41
I don't think of ancient philosophers considering life in stars or planets. Astronomy was a science of measuring time, through careful observation of the movement of celestial bodies. Other world was then closely related to after life.
Title: Re: Who seems more logical in the sense of modern science?
Post by: Bill S on 16/04/2018 18:59:38
Until relatively recent centuries, astronomy and astrology were much the same thing.  Possibly this is not the sort of thinking the OP had in mind, but only if he/she gives the necessary enlightenment can this thread fulfill her/his expectations.