[akt1]

Glutamate seems to be released during O, and it SHOULD be converted into GABA. Most people with pois get relief from supplements that increase GABA. - The enzyme glutamate decarboxylase might not be working for us (?) - and then glutamate is NOT converted into GABA..

According to this article, Taurine is a good choice for lowering Glutamate and increasing GABA, and making the enzyme work:

"The amino acid taurine increases the GAD enzyme and consequently GABA levels. Additionally, taurine doubles as an inhibitory neurotransmitter and can bind directly to GABA receptors, so it can help provide balance naturally in that manner as well. Higher levels of any inhibitory neurotransmitter help lower high levels of any excitatory neurotransmitter. Taurine is found in high levels in the brain and cardiac tissue, indicating its importance in these areas. Taurine is found most abundantly in seafood and animal protein, so it is often deficient in one’s diet."


Too much Glutamate:

"Elevated levels of glutamate trigger the brain to release its natural opioids (endorphins/enkephalins) in order to protect the brain from damage, which can result in feelings of spaciness and eventually contribute to depletion of your natural opioids, and it also depletes glutathione levels, which is vital for detoxification, controlling inflammation and gut health. Additionally, glutathione also assists in protecting neurons from damage, so when it is depleted it is not available to do this job and thus contributes to more cell death. High levels of glutamate may increase the survival of unfriendly microbes in the gut and contribute to problems like excess acid and heartburn. Too much glutamate can lead to too much acetylcholine, and too much acetylcholine has a stimulating effect as well and puts one into a perpetual state of sympathetic stress with high levels of anxiety, fear, insomnia, restlessness, nervousness etc."

https://www.jacobsladdercenter.com/doc/research/other/How-to-Increase-GABA-and-Balance-Glutamate.pdf

[akt1]

Is pois because of poor methylation issues?
Can we not convert Glutamate into GABA?

To get normal methylation and  GLUTAMATE into GABA conversion going, check out:

1. Methylated vitamin b-s (for example Jarrow b-right)
2. NAC
3. Taurine


Anyone else tried the above against pois?

Is it all because of MTHFR-mutation?

In case one does not want to use supplements - can any diet fix these issues it the above is the problem?

peace

[B_Daniel]

Hi akt1.  I'm appreciative of your well thought out theory.  Many people on the forum, including myself, have had success with many of the supplements which convert Glutamate to Gaba.  However I believe this is coincidental, because at least in my case, this theory doesn't hold water.

For starters, I used to take gaba pills.  For months I took them.  Didn't help my pois, however I liked the way it calmed me.

Even if gaba doesn't help me, your theory could still apply to too much Glutamate.  However this doesn't work for me either
1) From everything I can see, my methylation appears to be optimal.  I've performed blood work, looked at my genes, etc.  Overall, I've thoroughly researched and reviewed my methylation pathways, and this is not a weakness of mine. 
2) High glutamate would lead to a racing mind and insomnia.  POIS has a nearly opposite effect in me.  It makes me lethargic and clears my mind of all thought and then blocks my ability to think much at all. 

Perhaps others have a different take?

[demografx]

Hi, B_Daniel!

[B_Daniel]

Hi, Demo!
---------------------------

Recently, I've begun to believe that my symptoms align more closely with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome "CFS", than with POIS. 

When I was 20, simply abstaining from sexual activity for a few days would have me feeling like a new person.  But from about 24 and onwards, there has always been some degree of the flu-like symptoms that lingered.  I'm 36 now.  Sex still heightens my brain fog, lethargy, anxiety, etc.  But the symptoms never disappear.

The main symptom I have, if I were to narrow it down to just one, is my lack of energy.  Some days are better than others, but on the whole, I wear out quicker when taking on stress and need more rest periods throughout the day than the avg person.  If I push myself too hard (can be mental or physical stress), I'll crash and be a zombie the next day. 

I think I initially latched on to POIS as an explanation bc of how clear the connection was.  1-3 hours after sex, I felt awful nearly every time.  But I'm now thinking that sex is just a very concentrated way of depleting my energy.  And all forms of that push me over the edge.

Those with CFS often have low testosterone, gastro issues, and sensitivities to certain foods like wheat dairy and soy.  Treatments that help include TRT/HRT, NSAIDs, LDN, B Vitamins, Magnesium and a few other supplements.  So it's similar to what many have said have helped for POIS. 

What I like most about characterizing my illness as CFS is that it's easier to talk to others about (physicians, family members), and there is a larger body of research, more established treatments, and a larger community to lean on.  On the POIS side, we're kinda each inventing the wheel, trying everything under the sun.  In this forum, we've all seen the posts of "If I stand on my head for 30 minutes and then scratch my belly really hard, my POIS goes away".  In the CFS support groups, I haven't seen that.  There's more discussion of the various established treatments. After you've tried those 20 things, you can rest knowing you've tried the bulk of what's likely to help, and then focus on stress reduction and improving your health overall. 
 
Anyway, just wanted to share this, as I view it as a major insight for me.  If I find anything that works for me on the CFS side I'll of course share it over here. 

If this sounds like something you'd like to learn more about, here are a couple of helpful pages I've come across
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2018/12/10/the-basics-a-guide-to-learning-sharing-and-making-a-difference-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me-cfs/
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2018/12/01/tips-newbies-fibromyalgia-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me-cfs/

[chinachin]

This is what I've been looking for, really meaningful

[danireland2]

Hi Guys,

I used to post here under the name "danireland", years and years ago. This site was instrumental in my recovery from POIS symptoms. I just wanted to "give back" and to say what works for me. Hopefully that will help 1 or more other people, and if that happens, that would be awesome.

Just to preface, my symptoms included: run-down feeling, brain fog, diminshed cognitive ability, tiredness, irritability, lack of motivation etc.

Now, 90+% of those symtoms have subsided. I now have a normal sex life. What worked for me?

Mainly NIACIN - the type that enables the FLUSH. The other one doesn't do much for me. I take that on a day that I know I'm going to orgasm. The dosage for me is 1tablet (500mg) on a day I know I'll orgasm. On other days, I don't take it.

Otherwise, having an excellent quality of life helps - good sleep, nutrition, exercise + good mental health is paramount.

I also take a comprehensive multivitamin and I supplement additionally with vitamin C and zinc.

Additionally, in my opinion, frequent ejaculation can lead to the release of higher DHT levels, perhaps a cause of hair loss (an issue with most men, not just POIS sufferers), so I've being adding finasteride, recently - at a low dose (about 0.75 - 1mg, 3 times or so per week).

And, honestly, things are fine. I had sex 3 times last night and orgasmed 3 times, had approx 2 hours sleep, and, I'm fine - thinking clearly and in a good mood. Sure, I might need a nap later, but I'd need that anyway with 2 hours sleep. If this was 10 years ago, I'd be in a far worse state.

Bit of a ramble, there - but I just wanted to give some hope to people out there. I really hope NIACIN can work for you - or something else. It's a nasty feeling having POIS. Def try the FLUSH version of NIACIN, not the non flush variety. I owe a lot to this forum, as, I never would have found the niacin solution, for me. Additionally, try to do all of the other things that put you in an optimum state. At least then, if you're running @ 90% of your optimum state for a day or so post O, you'll still be in a very good position. Anyway, enough ranting - please feel free to email me if you've any questions, as, I would really like to give back, if possible. This site did a lot for me, so thank you to all posters. Take care. Dan Ireland.

[demografx]

Dr. Nicole Prause, Founder, Liberos, LLC

Our POIS Scientific Researcher


POISCenter-funded NORD researcher/co-Investigator (Dr Tierney Lorenz is PI
[Principal Investigator] )

Dr Prause with Sex Positive Me covers the  latest science on Orgasmic Meditation, what POIS (post-orgasmic illness syndrome) is, the physiology of orgasm, and the physical threats to female scientists who try to conduct research in this area:

[raja55]

This last December I had the second worst POIS attack I've experienced (almost exactly one year after the first one, which was the worst). The full force attack came on days 7 and 8: suicidal thoughts, extreme depression, hopelessness, extreme social anxiety, second after second, minute after minute, hour after hour.

On the morning of day 9 I went for a walk and came back to lay down. I felt that somehow isolating myself from people and the walk in nature was helping me. As I was laying down I decided I wouldn't do anything, except being there, laying down.

Suddenly I started feeling very good. I intuitively knew that the POIS was gone, at least for the time being, (not the POIS symptoms, but I felt that the POIS itself was gone). I felt I was was just in the present contemplating and from this present I saw Truths springing forth. I felt assured that I was where I was supposed to be (as new-agey as it may sound), I felt my life was taken care of, I felt that I would remain unshakable for as long as I remained in that state of mind (which lasted a few minutes  and lingered for a couple of hours). I distinctly felt that a sensation in my lower back that usually accompanies me was gone so I thought that this sensation might be related with the POIS.

I had been reading about the theory that POIS might be related to overactive adrenal glands which in turn drops testosterone levels. I realized I live a very active life always being pushed by stress. It occurred to me that POIS was not the sickness, but the cure to my adrenal problem. Possibly, I had been over-active for so long that my body, in it's wisdom, had devised POIS as a means to completely break me down, through POIS, to put a halt to my unhealthy stressed behavior.

I think the POIS is back, or so I "feel". I feel the weird sensation on my lower back and I catch myself acting out of stress and not taking enough rest. But I feel that now I have the upper hand. Every day I become more aware of my stress-based actions and become a bit more calm and happy.

I hope this helps someone. Although it is possible that not all POIS has the same cause, maybe this will resonate with some.

[demografx]

Above post cross-posted:
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3713.msg39285#msg39285

[Jessie Pinkman]

I registered to the forum to add my story to the growing list of people suffering from POIS.

I have, what I consider to be, the worst case of POIS I have ever read about. I am not entirely sure when it started, and it has steadily gotten worse as I have aged. I think it began right around 2003-2004 when I was 19-20.

My symptoms after orgasm:
Passing blood and undigested food in the stool (I visibly shake while digesting a meal because I can feel it irritating the intestines)
Severe stomach ulcers and acid reflux
Sharp pains in the large intestine
Severe back muscle pain and fatigue (cannot stand for more than 1-2 minutes without feeling like I will pass out)
Severe, debilitating social anxiety (cannot look people in the eye)
Severe speech impediment (cannot pronounce certain letters and words and my sentences can become word salad)
Itchy/water eyes
Insomnia/lack of dreams
Memory loss (can become dementia-like if I push it too far)

Triggers:
Foods that increase the libido increase the symptoms. Even an increase in sexual drive makes me sick now whether I orgasm or not. The orgasm just multiplies the symptoms 1000-fold.

Here is my story (it is long, sorry):
In 2000, I took a strong course of Accutane that, I believe, did permanent and severe damage to my body. I developed severe suicidal depression while on this drug that partially reversed after stopping it. However, I also noticed weird symptoms the following year including vertigo while walking. I also became allergic to the sun, an allergy that lasted about 5 years. I would break out in an itchy rash on any part of my body exposed to the sun. Thankfully, that allergy disappeared.

I am 36 now, about to be 37. I did not graduate high school in 2002. Instead, I toiled away in retail for nearly a decade. I am an introvert who does not handle confrontation well, so retail was severely stressful for me. Combine this with alcoholism from 2002-2007, eating disorders, as well as other sources of severe psychological stress, and you have a recipe for extreme disaster.

In 2003-2004, I developed bowel changes (severe constipation) along with severe mental illness that was never officially diagnosed but involves delusions, panic attacks, and extreme depression, though not suicidal like it was with the Accutane. At this time, I noticed that sporadically, I would be unable to speak properly. I could not pronounce certain letters and would slur my speech despite being sober, particularly in stressful situations. In January of 2005, I smoked weed and had a massive panic attack that sent me to the ER. After this, I had severe panic attacks regularly for several years, including one that literally lasted 3 straight days. In January of 2006, I developed severe reactive hypoglycemia that would see my blood sugar drop into the upper 30’s or low 40’s after a meal (documented with a glucose meter).

In 2007, I was far less educated on biochemistry than I am today (I am now a biomedical scientist after having returned to school in 2011). I ignorantly assumed that I was intolerant to all carbohydrates and attempted to eat a ketogenic diet. This is the point in time at which the POIS became apparent. I remember it very clearly, early in the ketogenic diet, I developed excruciating pain in my stomach and my speech impediment became much more severe after orgasms. I also developed an inability to look people in the eye and could not socialize at all. I did not make the connection to orgasms at this time because I was orgasming multiple times per day which prevented any break in the symptoms.

I ditched the ketogenic diet after a few months, but this made the hypoglycemia severe again. In 2009-2010, I noticed that certain foods were causing stomach pains, particularly steak (but not ground beef), vinegar, anything fermented. My hypoglycemia had become so severe that I went back on the ketogenic diet and stayed on it for 6 years. This was one of the worst mistakes I have ever made as this diet nearly killed me. For a year or two, I was okay. The hypoglycemia was reduced, but not eliminated. However, sometime in 2015, my body crashed. I developed overwhelming, severe fatigue and back muscle pain to the point at which I could not stand for more than 1-2 minutes without feeling like I would pass out. Eventually, I developed a cardiac arrhythmia and landed in the ER with my heart skipping every other beat. I also developed my first bouts of memory loss on this diet in 2015. This forced me to quit the ketogenic diet.

When I quit the ketogenic diet, I switched to Paul Jaminet’s “Perfect Health Diet” which consists of what he calls “safe starches” like potatoes and rice, beef, coconut oil, and veggies. My libido spiked suddenly when I switched to this diet. However, this is when I started to really make the connection with orgasms. This diet made the POIS even MORE severe so that I would pass blood with undigested food in the stool and develop ulcers of the stomach after orgasms. The fatigue and back muscle pain also would flare severely after orgasms to the point at which I could not do anything but lay down.

Eventually, I discovered Ray Peat’s ideas on sugar and caffeine. This is the only thing in the world that has ever helped with my POIS. Sugar (meaning pure table sugar, fruit juice, or soda) attenuates my symptoms to a small degree, especially if I consume a large amount of sugar immediately after the orgasm. Caffeine is a miracle drug for me. I take a few hundred mgs per day now. Caffeine markedly improves the fatigue which allows me to at least work okay after an orgasm (but it doesn't help any of the other symptoms)

Along with the worsening POIS, I have progressively become intolerant to most foods. I cannot tolerate starch or fiber in any form. No grains, no potatoes, no whole fruits, no vegetables, nothing. All of it makes me extremely ill and this intolerance gets markedly worse after orgasms (which makes me think there is a connection).
My diet now is composed of ground beef, cheese, soda, fruit juice, whole milk, and lots of table sugar (12-15 tablespoons). This diet has gotten me to a somewhat manageable place, but it definitely has not cured me of anything. I would say it lessens my symptoms by about 10-20% which isn’t much but any improvement is helpful given how severe my POIS is.

I am at my wit’s end with this disorder. I have a very high libido that I cannot satisfy because it makes me sick. It is absolute, unadulterated torture. A living hell of sorts that is not articulable to anyone who has not experienced this. They just do not get it.
 

[demografx]

Jessie
Cross-posted @
https://poiscenter.com/forums/index.php?topic=3713.msg40812#msg40812

[raja55]

I registered to the forum to add my story to the growing list of people suffering from POIS.

Thanks for sharing. Very difficult story. I hope you find relief soon.

[charliem]

Hello to all again! I know I posted I had great reducing of suffering from POIS with Drotaverine (No-Spa), a selective inhibitor of phosphodiesterase 4 (PDE4). However, sometimes it's not enough if I've had more than one O per week... Sometimes it works better, other times poops up. As I'm underweight I take very low doses, like 1/3 of a pill. I take it at most once a day, otherwise I get weird side effects (same head aches I get from caffeine, Gingko and antidepressants so it must affect the brain or blood system somehow). No more than 1 or 2, at most 3 days after O.

Enter the other 2 in my stack of the wholly trinity:

Aviron Rapid - a combo of Humic acid + Andrographolide + Apogen - It's supposed to be anti-viral and boost your immune system. I think it works on the adrenals as well, preventing their wasting that POIS causes (my theory as it's the only thing that gives me a boost post-O and I have adrenal issues). One of the 3 substances is supposedly a mercury chelator.

Evening Primrose Oil - I take 1 to 4 tablets per day for 2-3 days after O. It's anti-inflammatory. It's very mild, a lot milder than either No-Spa or Aviron Rapid. However on some days it seems to help a lot. Many people with autoimmune diseases take it.

I say wholly trinity, but those are actually 5 substances - Evening Primrose oil (EPO), Humic acid, Drotaverine, Andrographolide and Apogen. All but the Drotaverine are of natural origin. I hope some researchers test all of them in POIS research. For me the Humic acid/Andrographolide/Apogen combo has the strongest effect in symptoms reduction, then Drotaverine (but the side effects are troubling) and then the EPO. However, on certain days EPO is the one that saves the day, so I need all three and use them together or rotate them. Am I glad that we get three of them in the same supplement!

Hey, maybe one of these 5 might be the thing that helps some of you, other fellow POIS sufferers. All of them were discovered as reducing POIS symptoms by chance by me.

/!\ Somehow blood sugar/insulin is also affected by POIS, so on some days I use Metformin when I want to eat something sweet but don't want to spike my insulin too much (I have history of hyperinsulinism/insulin resistance, POIS somehow causes blood sugar issues). Don't use it if you have NO issues with insulin spikes or/and blood sugar, it might be dangerous.

/!!\ And now the ones that made things worse: SАМе (S-Adenosyl-L-Methionine), 5-HTP, SJW and Ashwagandha - all are overrated and have dangerous side effects. All made me have panic attacks and hot flashes (I've never mixed any of them together, always separately as it's dangerous to mix them). SJW and 5-HTP separately severely spiked my serotonin and I got chest pains, rage, panic attacks, hot flashes, even got serotonin syndrome from the 5-HTP etc. The Ashwagandha actually turned me hyperthyroid after years being hypothyroid. Boy, do I miss those days as treating hyper is much harder (I can't take anti-thyroid drugs due to side effects). When I think about it POIS has some PCOS-like symptoms, at least I show them - insulin spikes/insulin resistance despite being skinny, excessive androgens, high DHEA-S, etc...

---To try---
I think I had good results with CoQ10, L-theanine and L-carnitine for general well-being but haven't taken any recently.

[MyrsVonn]

Hello, I have come across some posts here and on other sites claiming to have explored SSRIs as a possible treatment for POIS.  This greatly disturbs me, because taking an SSRI for a few months is what gave me POIS for almost 10 years (and counting).

Beware of SSRIs.

[MyrsVonn]

I've being adding finasteride

Please be aware that there are giant threads like this, including an entire forum, dedicated to sufferers of potentially life-long, devastating side effects of finasteride, many of which are far worse than POIS.

There's even a name for it:

Post-Finasteride Syndrome

[MyrsVonn]

i have been using a drug called citalopram that was prescribed to me by my doctor it has helped with both me and my friend who deal with pois so i just wanted to reccomend it on here. i currently take 40mg of citalopram. i initially started on 10 then worked my way up which is what i would recommend for anyone starting out with the drug

Escitalopram is what gave me POIS.  I highly discourage anyone from touching citalopram or escitalopram.  I am absolutely horrified that anyone would recommend such a thing.

[MyrsVonn]

I worked in medical research.  The labs are paid big bucks to get results for drugs. They get positive test results. If not there is always a paper shredder nearby.  The lack of oversight is a "joke".     

I wish this got emphasized more.  The situation is so bad that for many drugs, particularly psychiatric drugs where diagnosis is almost entirely subjective, there is literally zero (or less) evidence of their efficacy.

This is because even 10 perfectly-executed, double-blind studies performed by top-tier professionals renowned worldwide for their honesty and objectivity are worthless if 90 other studies contradicting them were fed to a paper shredder.

[MyrsVonn]

I just finished a two week of absistance. My life has been going in a good direction.

How's it going now?

[Magicwand]

Hello

I am conducting some research on POIS and have composed an anonymous survey for sufferers to complete if they would be so kind. I am an individual with no official affiliation but have previous research experience. I am also a POIS sufferer, which is why I would like to remain anonymous. 

Unfortunately this forum does not allow me to post external links until I have posted a few times to show that I am not a bot and am a genuine user, so I will have to wait a while and make a few posts before I can send a link to the survey.

That said, if anyone would like to complete the survey in advance of that wait please email me at findanswers@zohomail.eu (preferably from an anonymised email address, to preserve your own anonymity) and I will be happy to share the link to the survey (which is on Google Forms).

I would be very grateful if sufferers here would complete the survey so that we can get some meaningful insight into the profile of this condition across the population.

Once I have a sufficient number of responses I will be happy to share the results with this POIS Forum.

If after completing the survey, anyone has any useful feedback I would be very happy to receive that at the above email address.

Magicwand