Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Claire on 16/01/2004 14:53:33
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Hi guys, I hope someone might be able to help me with this one.
I am writing an essay on rape, and the UK have just passed some new laws which make it an offence for a man to rape either a woman or another man. In the initial report by the government they claimed they had heard only anecdotal evidence that a woman could rape a man and therefore did not include it as an offence of rape.
I am certain that I have read something about it being physiologically possible to force an erection. Has anyone else heard about this? I don't know if any research has yet been done.
Thanks!
Claire
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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Maybe if she spikes a drink with viagra she might be able to coerce an erection. I don't know...I don't think I could perform at gunpoint, honestly. But bear in mind that it's a very rare man that will turn down a sexual encounter, sudden and unexpected or otherwise. However, it's still possible she could use a foreign object and rape him prison-style, so I'd yes it's possible for a woman to rape a man. The laws should be written to account for both cases, but unfortunately, the vast majority of rape cases are committed by men amd the laws reflect that.
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What possible pleasure could you get from sticking soming into a guy's anus? How completely warped would you have to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!
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Rapists don't rape for the sexual pleasure, they rape for the power and control it gives them over someone they fear and/or hate. The very fact they are capaable of doing it gives the rapist a feeling of complete and total control of their victim...it has nothing to do with the urge to procreate.
It happens in prisons because some prisoners have a need to feel control over someone as almost every aspect of THEIR lives is controlled.
In the case of a woman doing something like this to a man, it's probably because of a prior victimization and exerting such control over another man allows her take revenge in some way on her previous aggressor.
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There's only one (two) word I can say: Loony Bin
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Unfortunately, most rapists are simply stuck in prison for 10-20 years to build up even more hatred and need for dominance. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe sex offender recidivism is pretty high compared to most other major crimes. We have a tendency to lock these people away and forget about them until they hurt someone else rather than try and fix what is actually wrong with them psychologically and/or physically.
This is more my girlfriend's area of study, she could give you the hard numbers if you really want them.
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I heard that a woman has been convicted in the USA of raping a man, which is a first. But I don't know if its actually true or not. i stumbled onto a few websites which suggest that stimulation of the prostrate gland in the anus can provide an involuntary erection and I found a slightly disturbing site which suggested some other ways a man might be made to produce an erection for example by restricting outward but not inward blood flow to the penis. Not nice stuff...
I do think that women are able to be more agressive these days, and its more acceptable in society but if we're not careful we could be guilty of double standards on this one - if not already - i.e. its OK for Marks and Spencers to sell calendars of near naked men but they wouldn't dream of the opposite.
I found one 'interesting' website that suggested ways to stimulate an erection on an unwilling male, which would be totally shocking if it was the other way round. The site suggested this could be a good way to get revenge on an ex boyfriend. Lets hope someone does some more research on this area so if necessary the law can be changed. The point about the possible use of viagra is also a good one.
I don't know how much study there is of the psychology of rapists in this country. I guess it counts as criminology.
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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There is a ton of research in criminology, sociology, and psychology about rape and other sexually deviant behavior. We probably have close to 10 books on the subject just on our bookshelves. (my girlfriend has a rather extensive library of sociology and psychology texts) If you're really interested, let me know and I'll point you in the way of some decent titles.
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I'll pass on what one of my doc friends said, when I thought all rapists should have a penectomy and end the problem. You can be raped with more that just a penis. It can be a broomstick, a gun barrel, etc. I know, it's disgusting, but it goes to show that rape really is a crime of violence. By the way, we had this discussion after we admitted an 80 year old woman who was raped and sodomized by a twenty-something year old boy, who slit her throat when he was finished with her. Fortunately, the police caught him while he was finishing his act, and he still slit her throat before they could physically apprehend him.
My sister used to work with paraplegics, some of whom wanted babies, and they used a rectal probe, to stimulate the prostate to erection and ejaculation to obtain semen for artificial insemination. Wasn't very successful, however, because when men become paraplegic, they lose temperature regulation in the testicles, because they can't move further or closer to the body in response to temperature differences, thus can't maintain a viable temperature for sperm.
I think the reason they left women raping men out of that law is because one, it's hardly ever necessary for a woman to coerce a man to have intercourse with her, and two, women, in general, I don't think are as violent as men. Check the statistics. We're more cunning, and more verbal, so we usually argue verbally and get even instead of angry, as evidenced by how many men get financially ruined during their divorce. I just think women express their anger differently.
Bezoar
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What is the definition of rape ?
Does a guy have to have an erection in order to be raped by a woman ? Does rape have to involve the penis being inserted into a body cavity ?
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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I know the current thought is that rape is an act of violence as opposed to sexual motivation, but I think that it is both. That being said, I agree that the primary motivation is power.
A woman can most definitely sexually assault a man. It doesn't always have to involve intercourse, but I believe she could force an erection and intercourse too. We used anal stimulation to ejaculate the bulls on the farm (no help from bovine pornography) and I suppose you could do the same to a man.
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Rape has a few different legal definitions. It boils down to sexual contact that is illegal because it's A) forced or b) committed on someone that doesn't have legal status of consent. (i.e. a minor, severely retarded person, coma vicitim, etc)
It's a distinct line...unwanted fondling is not rape, but is still sexual assault of a less category. The legal definition that separates the two is the presence or lack of penetration. A lot goes to intent. If someone shoves a broomstick into your anus, it would probably be classified as rape. If they shoved it down your throat, it would fall under assault, unless verbal intent of sexual connotation was present. They might not split hairs on that one because felony assault with a weapon and rape carry similar sentences anyway. Most important to note is the use of the penis is not a requirement. A disturbing number of rapes are committed with a foreign object, as Bezoar mentioned above.
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While the definition of rape has always been flawed, keep in mind it was originally drafted in the 1800s. Traditionally it was defined as unlawful carnal knowledge by man of a woman by force and without consent. Carnal knowledge, for those who don't know, means knowing the other sexually, which means you must have penetration no matter how slight, but this applies to genital contact.
In the past few years, I know that the Pennsylvania legislature passed a revised version of that law:
"Person commits rape when he or she engages in sexual intercourse without complainant's consent"
The conditions of that are as follows:
1) by forcible compulsion
2) with an unconscious person
3) by use of drugs or intoxicants
4) who suffers from a mental disability
5) who is less than 13 years
As for penetration by an object in the anus, depending where you are from, that would fall under sodimy, or sexual assault, which is only a felony of the 2nd degree.
As for the original topic, female on male rape is very much possible as already stated. Drugs could be involved, such as Viagra, or anus stimulation through the prostrate could occur, but also penial erections are also control by spinal reflexes. It's been known that spinal injury victims often get a spontaneous erection.
As for legally, can a man be raped? Technically yes, but it would more likely fall under sexual assault.
Also, sorry for being redundant, if I appeared to be.
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[:0]13?!!! what are they doing out in Pennsylvania?? Why even have an age if you're going to make it 13?!!!![xx(]
This is a signature.... AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!!
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The age of consent in PA is 18, but that's between an 18 year old, and any other adult, like some 72 year old who wants a trophy wife. The situation gets more complicated when the sexual intercourse is between two consenting minors, or a minor and an adult who's ages are close. There is some leeway in the law for that, although I don't know the chapters and verses.
People also get married before the age of 18, and not just in Pennsylvania! I think 13 is the minimum age for marriage, although that seems pretty tender to me. I know that has been an issue in some rural areas in Utah, where older men have taken 13 year old wives who were coerced into the marriage, but I think that is another thread in another forum.
To get back to raping a man, I have seen electrical devices for sale that are supposed to be inserted into the rectum, near the prostate, and can be set to cause an erection. I have never tried one, although I have seen an .mpeg of something similar in operation that came off of a newsgroup. I don't think I got to the end of it though, and deleted it, so don't ask me to send it.
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I agree with the short sharp statement from Chris.
If a woman wanted to (re)gain power over a man, supporting the conception of rape as a power rather than sex crime, then forcible, non-concensual insertion of an object into an orifice, that may be construed as sexual (e.g. the anus - not sure about the mouth...), could (should) be seen as rape.
Of course, can mental torment, particularly with regard to 'extortion' of sex, be viewed as rape? (Note sure if that thought is fully formed, but I put it out there...)
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I always had one problem with saying rape is a crime about power and not sex. While I agree with this, I have to add that isn't all sex about power to some extent??
Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
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quote:
Originally posted by MayoFlyFarmer
I always had one problem with saying rape is a crime about power and not sex. While I agree with this, I have to add that isn't all sex about power to some extent??
Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
Sorry Mayo, but I disagree. Sex is about enjoying someone's physical presence with mutual pleasure, contentment and respect. Having physical fantasies fulfilled, stress and tension released and just plain fun are more the qualities of sex than anything to do with power trips. Well, it is with me, anyway.
BTW, do you have a spell checker on your computer? Some of your posts are difficult to decipher!
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rape is forcing someone to do a sexual activity when they simply do not want to, if they do not want to be raped(which i am sure they don't) they probably aren't going to get very excited about it, the fact is the woman sexually violated the man without his consent and taht my friend is rape:)
Greetings in Christ Jesus my Lord
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I'm sorry if my spelling cornfuses you. its always been horrible, and my typing skills don't help matters any. No spell checker, sorry. I don't think its too bad in this thread though, is it??
To reply to your comment I agree with everything that you say that sex is, but part of what lets you enjoy the presence of your partner is the intamacy of the act (otherwise you could just enjoy the presence of your partner while cleaning the bathroom together). I think that a great deal of what makes sex such an intimate act is how vulnerable you are to eachother. To me the opposite of vulnerability is power. So in essence you are both enjoying power over one another. Although in an ideal situation this should balance out. I hope this logic works at least somewhat. I knew that by just stating that all sex was about power I left myself open to criticism (and probably cmae off sounding really creepy) but I wanted to see what responses it drew.
Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
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While the definition of rape has always been flawed, keep in mind it was originally drafted in the 1800s. Traditionally it was defined as unlawful carnal knowledge by man of a woman by force and without consent. Carnal knowledge, for those who don't know, means knowing the other sexually, which means you must have penetration no matter how slight, but this applies to genital contact.
In the past few years, I know that the Pennsylvania legislature passed a revised version of that law:
"Person commits rape when he or she engages in sexual intercourse without complainant's consent"
The conditions of that are as follows:
1) by forcible compulsion
2) with an unconscious person
3) by use of drugs or intoxicants
4) who suffers from a mental disability
5) who is less than 13 years
As for penetration by an object in the anus, depending where you are from, that would fall under sodimy, or sexual assault, which is only a felony of the 2nd degree.
As for the original topic, female on male rape is very much possible as already stated. Drugs could be involved, such as Viagra, or anus stimulation through the prostrate could occur, but also penial erections are also control by spinal reflexes. It's been known that spinal injury victims often get a spontaneous erection.
As for legally, can a man be raped? Technically yes, but it would more likely fall under sexual assault.
Also, sorry for being redundant, if I appeared to be.
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[:0]13?!!! what are they doing out in Pennsylvania?? Why even have an age if you're going to make it 13?!!!![xx(]
This is a signature.... AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!!
-
The age of consent in PA is 18, but that's between an 18 year old, and any other adult, like some 72 year old who wants a trophy wife. The situation gets more complicated when the sexual intercourse is between two consenting minors, or a minor and an adult who's ages are close. There is some leeway in the law for that, although I don't know the chapters and verses.
People also get married before the age of 18, and not just in Pennsylvania! I think 13 is the minimum age for marriage, although that seems pretty tender to me. I know that has been an issue in some rural areas in Utah, where older men have taken 13 year old wives who were coerced into the marriage, but I think that is another thread in another forum.
To get back to raping a man, I have seen electrical devices for sale that are supposed to be inserted into the rectum, near the prostate, and can be set to cause an erection. I have never tried one, although I have seen an .mpeg of something similar in operation that came off of a newsgroup. I don't think I got to the end of it though, and deleted it, so don't ask me to send it.
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I agree with the short sharp statement from Chris.
If a woman wanted to (re)gain power over a man, supporting the conception of rape as a power rather than sex crime, then forcible, non-concensual insertion of an object into an orifice, that may be construed as sexual (e.g. the anus - not sure about the mouth...), could (should) be seen as rape.
Of course, can mental torment, particularly with regard to 'extortion' of sex, be viewed as rape? (Note sure if that thought is fully formed, but I put it out there...)
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I always had one problem with saying rape is a crime about power and not sex. While I agree with this, I have to add that isn't all sex about power to some extent??
Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
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quote:
Originally posted by MayoFlyFarmer
I always had one problem with saying rape is a crime about power and not sex. While I agree with this, I have to add that isn't all sex about power to some extent??
Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
Sorry Mayo, but I disagree. Sex is about enjoying someone's physical presence with mutual pleasure, contentment and respect. Having physical fantasies fulfilled, stress and tension released and just plain fun are more the qualities of sex than anything to do with power trips. Well, it is with me, anyway.
BTW, do you have a spell checker on your computer? Some of your posts are difficult to decipher!
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rape is forcing someone to do a sexual activity when they simply do not want to, if they do not want to be raped(which i am sure they don't) they probably aren't going to get very excited about it, the fact is the woman sexually violated the man without his consent and taht my friend is rape:)
Greetings in Christ Jesus my Lord
-
I'm sorry if my spelling cornfuses you. its always been horrible, and my typing skills don't help matters any. No spell checker, sorry. I don't think its too bad in this thread though, is it??
To reply to your comment I agree with everything that you say that sex is, but part of what lets you enjoy the presence of your partner is the intamacy of the act (otherwise you could just enjoy the presence of your partner while cleaning the bathroom together). I think that a great deal of what makes sex such an intimate act is how vulnerable you are to eachother. To me the opposite of vulnerability is power. So in essence you are both enjoying power over one another. Although in an ideal situation this should balance out. I hope this logic works at least somewhat. I knew that by just stating that all sex was about power I left myself open to criticism (and probably cmae off sounding really creepy) but I wanted to see what responses it drew.
Lift your skinny fists, like antennas to hevan!
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"rape is forcing someone to do a sexual activity when they simply do not want to, if they do not want to be raped(which i am sure they don't) they probably aren't going to get very excited about it, the fact is the woman sexually violated the man without his consent and taht my friend is rape:)"
Christian Chick - rape is to do with penetration in this country, it's not simply forcing someone to do something sexual they don't want to.
Not all sexual activities involve penetration. so a woman can't rape a man unless she can force him to penetrate her without his consent. That's the issue....some really interesting replies to this post!
I did well in my essay in the end although I was a bit irritated by my examiners comment that the issue of whether a woman can rape a man is not relevant to consent. The current law surely implies that men alway consent to sex with a woman, something your replies show needs to be seriously questioned. (but I still got a distinction so I didn't care too much about that comment [:D])
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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Claire- Jeez, I should have saved that electrical stimulation mpeg, and sent it to your examiner. It might give him pause about his parochial views on rape.
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I gather the examiner who made the comment is male. If he thinks being raped has nothing to do with (lack of) consent, then he's never been raped.
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Yeah, he needs a damn good nobbing !
C
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
Yeah, he needs a damn good nobbing !
C
LOL!!!
Good'ay Chris
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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Okay Chris, you get the broom and I'll pin him down![;)]
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The legal definition of rape is sexual intercourse without a person's consent. In the UK it is (quite wrongly) impossible for a Woman to rape a man. An erection can be forced with drugs etc or if the guy is drunk with an erection and does not consent to sex if the woman climbs on is this not rape???
If a woman is drunk and a male has sex with her this is technically rape. It would appear that if the woman does not say the words "I give you permission to have sex with me" then the male has raped her. I have researched this extensively and have found the following: If a woman changes her mind during sex, the male has raped her.<<< FACT
If you are out clubbing and you meet a young lady who is performing sexual behaviour and imlpying she wants sex (you can use your imagination) then the guy is quite right to assume she wants sex especially if she comes back to his house and gets naked in his bed. But, if she wakes up the next morning and regrets it she can quite rightly claim he raped her.
Not fair is it when have you ever asked permission for sex??? or do you just do it?
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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I have often said "Regrets is not rape.", precisely because of the scenario you have given. I do not believe that consent has to be verbal, however, although I cannot speak with authority about British law. Whether consent was given non-verbally, (e.g. she's climbing all over you) or "May I **** you now?" is answered with "Certainly!", without witnesses, one is not able to prove one was given consent. Perhaps a written form, a contract, is in order. I imagine it should be notarized. Of course, that does not guarantee she won't change her mind.
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unfortunately there is no such thing as implied consent there have been cases where people have been prosecuted because climbing all over someone is not consenting to sex
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Hey, I like the idea of a written contract. But then, if he's a dud in bed, can I sue him for breach of contract?
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can i sue my ex for giving me an STD then?
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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I don't know about the UK, but over here you can sue anyone for anything, and, because we are an equal opportunity country, you have an equal chance of winning.
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
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Yep, in the states you could. I remember Robin Williams got sued for giving his girlfriend herpes. Don't know the outcome of the suit though.
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"But, if she wakes up the next morning and regrets it she can quite rightly claim he raped her."
That's about as dum as me eating a bunch of happy meals, and then after I'm fat, sue McDonald's because I regret having eaten them.
drkev the goverment may accept it but I don't think it makes things right. If you regret doing it you still weren't raped since you consented until the action was complete. Since rape is the force of penetration, and the penetration was not forced, how is it rape?
Pink
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"Christian Chick - rape is to do with penetration in this country, it's not simply forcing someone to do something sexual they don't want to.
Not all sexual activities involve penetration. so a woman can't rape a man unless she can force him to penetrate her without his consent. That's the issue....some really interesting replies to this post!"
Is that not possible?
Pink