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This also reminds me of medicine and physiotherapy studentsYes, they climb a big ladder and destroy the runs on the way up that makes coming down very nasty. It's a little bit like forgetting how one got there.
who do physics and advunced math/s instead of biology in HS
to get a high/er score and who then promptly forget all of it!
Is that why you missed this point?No, I did comment back on that experiment and I made the comment that it is not petrol and you commented back by saying it is close to the makeup of petrol.
Quote from: Bored chemist on Yesterday at 23:30:10
Quote from: Just thinking on Yesterday at 23:24:27
No the ethanol and the water will be buoyant in the petrol
You keep ignoring reality.
I showed a picture that shows it sinks.
It's not buoyant.
Please stop posting your hallucinations as if they are facts.
Why?Water in alcohol is a temporary bond water and alcohol in petrol is a temporary bond The point is that the bond lasts long enuff for the water to be ingested into the engine this means that the water will not accumulate instead it will be consumed as it is introduced to the system. If we were to put say 1 or 2 litres of water in the fuel tank the principal will be overcome and fail but we are talking a very small amount of water that can be managed. I hope this clarifies my point of view.
The point remains, there should be no water and if there is, it hardly matters if what settles out has some alcohol in it.
In cold weather it's less than 0.1%I just thought I would point out what you have stated there 0.1% is 1000 litres of water in 999,000 litres of petrol.
What you "worked out" about alcohol is wrong.So now you admit it works and you are starting to get it the ethanol works to get rid of the water before the water has a chance to build up to the point that you have stated. See it works no more water flooding the bottom of the tank. Well done.
If you add water to E5 fuel it separates out.
How little water you can dissolve depends on temperature.
In cold weather it's less than 0.1%
You can't rely on that to remove water from a .tank
As you pointed out, you can't "saturate" alcohol with water; they are miscible in any proportions.The point here is the saturation point when combined with the petrol the water will separate from the ethanol if there is too much water. Why the petrol will dilute the ethanol but not the water. This is the point of over saturation. Stay on channel now.
Please pay attention to what you are trying to tell those of us who already know it.
You made it wrong.No the ethanol and the water will be buoyant in the petrol that means the water will not flood the bottom of the tank that's why it works.
If there's a little water in the tank and you add E10 petrol you will get two layers. The bottom layer will be water with some alcohol in it.
That will stop the engine
You are funny it's all about the saturation point. Towels hold water, Alcohol holds water I worked out the towel thing before I went to school and the alcohol thing in first class.I will try and make it a little bit more simpleYou made it wrong.
If there's a little water in the tank and you add E10 petrol you will get two layers. The bottom layer will be water with some alcohol in it.
That will stop the engineYes.With alcohol in the fuel, any water still settles to the bottom.You really need to use dry alcohol otherwise it just won't work. If the alcohol is dry it will hold water you have started off behind the 8 ball. When I have a shower I tend to use a dry towel it works better.
You really need to pay attention.
What you seem to fail to grasp is that, when you have used the towel, it is no longer dry.
When you add water to the towel, it doesn't work so well.
When you add water to the E5 fuel, it doesn't work so well.
What happens is that you then have wet alcohol and it settles out of solution (as shown by actual experiment).
That stops the engine.
No, you seem to have missed the point it's all about the saturation point of the alcohol please stay on Chanel.What point did you think you were making?With alcohol in the fuel, any water still settles to the bottom.Look I found more the internet is flooded with what I already know. LOOK at the big red arrow. [ Invalid Attachment ]
You really need to pay attention.
I have been repeatedly making the distinction between the very dry ethanol that will mix with petrol and the 96% alcohol which will not.
Essentially everyone over 18 knows that you can mix alcohol and water.
But you seem not to have noticed that you were talking about hydrocarbons as a fuel (which is what I referred to) and alcohol as an additive.
Still not cutting the ice.Kitchen experiments don't really cut the ice.They do better than your "shouting loudly but being wrong".
Pity that you didn't read it.The point is you said the ethanol will not hold water and this clearly shows that it does.
" Hydrous ethanol (about 95% ethanol and 5% water) can be used as fuel in more than 90% of new gasoline fueled cars sold in the country. Brazilian ethanol is produced from sugar cane and noted for high carbon sequestration."
Yes. Brazil is ahead of the game; we told you this near the start of the thread.
Online Bored chemistKitchen experiments don't really cut the ice.
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Re: Ethanol fuel is the way to go
« Reply #29 on: Today at 03:03:19 »
* alcohol in white spirit.jpg (122.16 kB . 756x1008 - viewed 127 times)
Quote from: Just thinking on Today at 02:04:52
It has not got to mix perfectly
Do you know what actually happens when you put alcohol in a hydrocarbon?
I just took a picture.
This is 2.5 ml of >95% alcohol in 25 ml of white spirit.
The arrow shows the meniscus where the stuff settled out.
With alcohol in the fuel, any water still settles to the bottom.Look I found more the internet is flooded with what I already know. LOOK at the big red arrow.
You really need to pay attention.
Looky Looky.PNG (96.4 kB . 713x666 - viewed 968 times)
Wikipedia fuel.PNG (18.95 kB . 1200x193 - viewed 965 times)With alcohol in the fuel, any water still settles to the bottom.I found this for you on your favourite site Wikipedia I know you can trust this information It clearly states that the ethanol in petrol can hold 5% WATER to its volume. You must start researching more You never know what you will find.
You really need to pay attention.
With alcohol in the fuel, any water still settles to the bottom.You really need to use dry alcohol otherwise it just won't work. If the alcohol is dry it will hold water you have started off behind the 8 ball. When I have a shower I tend to use a dry towel it works better.
You really need to pay attention.
No, I'm not.Why/how.
You are wrong, and everyone can see it.
But those aren't costs, they are tax rates.I have already made it clear that it is to do with the sale of less than perfect petrol the lower grade petrol is the bottom of the barrel stuff and is less refined and can be used with ethanol rather than having it mixed with the further refined fuel. the less refined petrol has a lower octane and by adding ethanol the octane is increased to meet the needs of the modern high compression engines but that is another story for you later I wald rather not go into engine mechanics and make you look silly.
The government is encouraging people to use ethanol by effectively subsidising it.
Do you think they are doing that because of water in fuel?