Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: neilep on 18/12/2007 19:01:48
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Dear Naked Scientists Of Academic Awe & Wonder !
I do hope ewe are all keeping your white coats buttoned up this time of year !
See Edgar the goat ?
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Nice eh ?
He is enjoying a slurp of antifreeze !!..(Genuinely !!)...appparantely they like it lots !!...plus, I believe it keeps them warm when they raid peoples freezers !!
A few questions if I may.
What is in antifreeze that has such an immediate effect on defreezing a frozen covered windscreen ?.......Is it not poisonous ?.....how can a goat enjoy it and not a human ?
Warmest Hugs and soothing smishes to ewe all !
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That which we commonly use as antifreeze (Ethylene glycol) is toxic to humans (and I would guess to most mammals). There is a less toxic antifreeze (Propylene glycol).
Many substances have some antifreeze properties, even common salt (although it only has limited antifreeze properties), and I believe glycerine.
When water freezes, it becomes ice (somewhat obvious point), but ice is normally a crystal, while water, self evidently is not. The purpose of antifreeze is to make it more difficult for water to crystallise to ice, by getting between the water molecules so that they can less easily arrange themselves for form ice crystals.
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That which we commonly use as antifreeze (Ethylene glycol) is toxic to humans (and I would guess to most mammals). There is a less toxic antifreeze (Propylene glycol).
Many substances have some antifreeze properties, even common salt (although it only has limited antifreeze properties), and I believe glycerine.
When water freezes, it becomes ice (somewhat obvious point), but ice is normally a crystal, while water, self evidently is not. The purpose of antifreeze is to make it more difficult for water to crystallise to ice, by getting between the water molecules so that they can less easily arrange themselves for form ice crystals.
Yes, this is because alcohols are polar molecules (separation of charge inside the molecule) so they forms a binding with water molecule, preventing them to bind together and so to freeze (an alcohol has a much lower freezing point).
Exactly for the same reason you can easily dissolve ice with alcohol (the last solution when you don't know how to clean your windscreen from ice. Last because it can be aggressive with the windsreen's gum gaskets).
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The 2 commonly used organic anti freeze chemicals (salt is probably the most widely used) are methanol and ethylene glycol (ethanediol to those who like IUPAC names). Both are rather toxic and both taste sweet (that's where glycol gets its name). Sadly this combination means that pets and other animals are poisoned by antifreeze quite often.
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Someone should have stopped him from eating it.. Our goat got into a pan drained from the car and it killed him. Same with dogs cats kids etc.. it will kill them and they like the way it tastes. The vet told me it tastes slightly sweet to pets! I don't know how he knows what the pets know, but that was what he said! LOL It is highly poison!
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Doesn't urine have anti-freeze properties? It seemed to work when we peed on frozen car locks-or is that just the heat -yeah, it probably is isn't it?
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That which we commonly use as antifreeze (Ethylene glycol) is toxic to humans (and I would guess to most mammals). There is a less toxic antifreeze (Propylene glycol).
Many substances have some antifreeze properties, even common salt (although it only has limited antifreeze properties), and I believe glycerine.
When water freezes, it becomes ice (somewhat obvious point), but ice is normally a crystal, while water, self evidently is not. The purpose of antifreeze is to make it more difficult for water to crystallise to ice, by getting between the water molecules so that they can less easily arrange themselves for form ice crystals.
This is wonderful information.....THANK YOU Mr Another_Someone !..well...it certainly works very fast at de-crytallizing water !
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That which we commonly use as antifreeze (Ethylene glycol) is toxic to humans (and I would guess to most mammals). There is a less toxic antifreeze (Propylene glycol).
Many substances have some antifreeze properties, even common salt (although it only has limited antifreeze properties), and I believe glycerine.
When water freezes, it becomes ice (somewhat obvious point), but ice is normally a crystal, while water, self evidently is not. The purpose of antifreeze is to make it more difficult for water to crystallise to ice, by getting between the water molecules so that they can less easily arrange themselves for form ice crystals.
Yes, this is because alcohols are polar molecules (separation of charge inside the molecule) so they forms a binding with water molecule, preventing them to bind together and so to freeze (an alcohol has a much lower freezing point).
Exactly for the same reason you can easily dissolve ice with alcohol (the last solution when you don't know how to clean your windscreen from ice. Last because it can be aggressive with the windsreen's gum gaskets).
AWESOME Mr Lightarrow Sir..I actually understand it !!...I'm amazed !!...if only all my teachers at school taught me in English as their second language !!...but then..I do have an affection for Italy !!
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The 2 commonly used organic anti freeze chemicals (salt is probably the most widely used) are methanol and ethylene glycol (ethanediol to those who like IUPAC names). Both are rather toxic and both taste sweet (that's where glycol gets its name). Sadly this combination means that pets and other animals are poisoned by antifreeze quite often.
This is fascinating !!..THANK YOU Mr Bored Chemist.juts goes to prove that organic doesn't necessarily mean safe !!
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Someone should have stopped him from eating it.. Our goat got into a pan drained from the car and it killed him. Same with dogs cats kids etc.. it will kill them and they like the way it tastes. The vet told me it tastes slightly sweet to pets! I don't know how he knows what the pets know, but that was what he said! LOL It is highly poison!
Sorry about your pet Goat Kareny Mam...that must have been awful !.
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Doesn't urine have anti-freeze properties? It seemed to work when we peed on frozen car locks-or is that just the heat -yeah, it probably is isn't it?
THANK YOU OPUS
This is simply the best version of organic anti-freeze !!!...LOL....girlies might have aiming issuesn trying to do it on locks !!! [;D]
Quite handy for de-freezing the whole windscreen I would imagine !! [;D]
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yes neilep and free and sustainable too (with refills)
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Someone should have stopped him from eating it.. Our goat got into a pan drained from the car and it killed him. Same with dogs cats kids etc.. it will kill them and they like the way it tastes. The vet told me it tastes slightly sweet to pets! I don't know how he knows what the pets know, but that was what he said! LOL It is highly poison!
Sorry about your pet Goat Kareny Mam...that must have been awful !.
yes it was a surprise to me sons too. They were just learning to pull an engine from a car..and left a pan of antifreeze out...it was pretty sad! A hard way to learn a lesson!
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It's all the sadder because glycol poisoning is treatable; the old fashioned, but effective antidote is ordinary (ethyl) alcohol but it needs proper supervision.
More recently other things have been used.
http://www.hosp.uky.edu/pharmacy/formulary/criteria/ethyleneglycol.htm
I guess the vet thinks the suff tastes sweet to goats because it tastes sweet to us too.
Anyway urea is used as a deicing agent because it's less bad for plants than using salt.
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AWESOME Mr Lightarrow Sir..I actually understand it !!...I'm amazed !!...if only all my teachers at school taught me in English as their second language !!...but then..I do have an affection for Italy !!
Thank you [:I]