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Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: mxplxxx on 18/11/2011 08:49:13

Title: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 18/11/2011 08:49:13

According to Einstein's theory of relativity, the faster we go the slower time goes as far as we are concerned. Can anyone describe the mathematics of how time and velocity are related in this situation?

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: imatfaal on 18/11/2011 10:05:35

 Wikipedia Intro To Special Relativity  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_special_relativity)

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 18/11/2011 12:34:46

Thanks ... I was hoping for something simple like a t = f(v) equation.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: Soul Surfer on 18/11/2011 23:16:27

remember always that the time speed shift only applies to viewers at a distance that are moving at a different speed.  Time always flows perfectly normally for the person that is moving and all the objects that are moving with him.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 19/11/2011 08:19:03

Thanks ... although time appears to flow normally it has in fact slowed down or speeded up. It seems to indicate that there are two types of time, perceived and actual. This still doesn't help me with an equation relating speed and time. It seems to me that such a beast should be as fundamental as E=MC². If not, then something seems to be seriously amiss.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: imatfaal on 19/11/2011 09:22:59

Mxpl - the reason I posted an intro to special relativity is because it is a very good place to start.  The phrase you use "it has in fact slowed down or speeded up" betrays the fact that you are working on an idea of absolute time.  There is no god-frame which allows observation the absolute time dilation or absolute motion - everything is relative, there is only the time dilation from any other frame. And whilst time and length are normal within the local frame, they are always dilated and contracted to a greater or lesser extent from every other frame in relative motion.  There is no "actual time" - there is the time in one's own local frame and the dilated time in other frames.

To calculate the time dilation and length contraction of an object in relative motion we use the Lorentz Contraction which is based around this factor gamma



you will note that [tex] \frac{v^2}{c^2} [\tex] v²/c² will always be less than one for subluminal speeds and when [tex] \frac{v^2}{c^2} [\tex] v²/c²equals one we end up with a problem ie SR does not deal with frames moving with a relative velocity of speed of light, and when [tex] \frac{v^2}{c^2} [\tex] v²/c² is very small we end up with real-world earthly situations where no dilation or contraction can be observed.

edit - I had forgotten we dont have latex yet equation as follows

γ = 1 / √(1-v²/c²)

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 19/11/2011 09:32:06

What if time, speed and energy are equivalent? An increase in speed is achieved by an increase in energy. And what if instead of a past, present and future there is just an eternal present. In this scenario, time is just the rate of change of an entity. And change is related to an increase or decrease of energy which is related to an increase or decrease in speed. By the way, if you think of an eternal present as unlikely, think about the alternative of a past, present and future. In this scenario, the present is an infinitely thin knife edge, meaning that we don't exist at all. This is a possibility (we could be a simulation for example), but unlikely IMHO.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: imatfaal on 19/11/2011 09:34:52

mxpl - you are getting into the realm of speculation and the New Theories sub-forum; the physics forum is for discussing and asking questions through mainstream science.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 19/11/2011 09:55:51

Quote from: imatfaal on 19/11/2011 09:22:59

There is no god-frame which allows observation the absolute time dilation or absolute motion√(1-v²/c²)

We may not be able to observe absolute time, that is not to say that it doesn't exist. Maybe God can observe it [:)]  

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 19/11/2011 09:57:09

Quote from: imatfaal on 19/11/2011 09:34:52

mxpl - you are getting into the realm of speculation and the New Theories sub-forum; the physics forum is for discussing and asking questions through mainstream science.

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. I will desist.

Title: ? What is the relationship between speed and time
Post by: imatfaal on 19/11/2011 10:32:24

Quote from: mxplxxx on 19/11/2011 09:57:09

Quote from: imatfaal on 19/11/2011 09:34:52

mxpl - you are getting into the realm of speculation and the New Theories sub-forum; the physics forum is for discussing and asking questions through mainstream science.

Ok, thanks for pointing that out. I will desist.

No - never stop asking questions!  Personally i think you would be much better served to ask questions and get explanations about mainstream science which in my opinion is amazing enough for any imagination.  But if you would prefer to speculate on the fringes then do so - but never stop questioning.  :-)

Title: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: syhprum on 19/11/2011 15:19:45

Isaac Watts "A thousand ages in thy sight are like an evening gone" (Victorian hymn)

Title: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: mxplxxx on 21/11/2011 03:06:42

It seems to me there are two types of time. One is the rate at which time flows and the second is elapsed time (seconds for example). The relationship of the first to speed could well be given by the equation t = 1/v. No idea of what the units might be. Immediately this raises the criticism that time stops at the speed of light but the equation does not predict this. So maybe the equation needs a speed of light component, but the maths eludes me.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: LetoII on 18/01/2012 04:11:28

they are the same...

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: swadewade8 on 18/01/2012 05:44:38

I have read recently read an article that the sub-atomic particle neutrino has been clocked at traveling 186415.0858983536 Miles per second (300,006 k.p.s.) which is faster than the speed of light which travels at roughly 186,282 miles per second.  This is faster than the speed of light but, not by much.  If this is true and does get proved, I am quite sure new mathematical equations will evolve to incorporate the new data.  This could possibly lead to being a step closer to understanding more of what dark matter is and how it equates to everything else.  From what I know of dark mater (or the lack thereof) couldn't this be similar relationship between Isaac Newton's theory of gravity and Einstein's theory of curved space time?  From what I understand about the two is there is a lag in gravity the farther away an object is from our sun the less pull it will have of course to hold the planet in space.  What keeps the planets in orbit is the curved space time in which a 'groove' is created by this propagation and is held into space by gravity.  I read the articles and pieced them together that made sense to me.  Are there computations to tie these two together?   If there is, I would like to know what they are.  I haven't got that far into math or physics aspect of it as of yet, but I am pretty good at formulating a spatial orientation and understanding the concepts.  Any help would be gratefully appreciated!!     

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: David Cooper on 18/01/2012 23:29:28

Quote from: mxplxxx on 18/11/2011 08:49:13

According to Einstein's theory of relativity, the faster we go the slower time goes as far as we are concerned. Can anyone describe the mathematics of how time and velocity are related in this situation?

I thought I'd found an easy way to do it on a calculator like this: if you type in the amount of length shortening or clock slowing that you want, you can convert it to the required speed by typing inv sin, cos. If you want to start with the speed in order to work out the amount of contraction, type it into the calculator and type inv cos, sin. For example, if you want a clock to run at half the normal rate or to shorten a length to half the rest length, type in 0.5 inv sin cos and you'll get the speed of 0.866 the speed of light. If you want to know the shortening of time or length at half the speed of light, type 0.5 inv cos sin.

I hope that's right.

I worked that out by drawing lines on paper representing the course light would take when moving between two mirrors at opposite sides of a moving space ship - when you do that, the reasons for length contraction and time slowing become visible.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: tryme83 on 30/04/2014 01:39:02

Quote from: mxplxxx on 18/11/2011 08:49:13

According to Einstein's theory of relativity, the faster we go the slower time goes as far as we are concerned. Can anyone describe the mathematics of how time and velocity are related in this situation?

I was just watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrqmMoI0wks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrqmMoI0wks) and asked myself the same question. Immediately at the beginning, the video shows an experiment in which we flew an airplane carrying an atomic clock around the world, after which this clock deviated from an atomic clock kept on the ground. I'd expect that this experiment has been repeated over and over with airplanes traveling at different speeds.. and that if you would plot the speeds of the airplanes vs. the time deviation, some curve with a simple mathematical formula would fit through the plotted points. I think this is in essence the question proposed here. Has this (or something similar) been done?

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: David Cooper on 30/04/2014 18:40:13

Haven't watched the video, but the experiment has been done many times. There is a complication with it though in that gravity affects the results more than the difference in speeds, so to eliminate that you want to compare two planes flying at different speeds but at the same altitude.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: Seldin on 17/08/2014 02:49:37

mxplxxx, it may be hard to imagine but if you consider each particle in the universe to be an independent observer, then the idea of "absolute time" falls away as each particle's experience of time becomes relative. Likewise, you can further go as to view groups of particles (bodies) as observers as well; ie planets, stars, objects, people, etc... You can observe this with the atomic clock experiment presented by tryme83 in which two atomic clocks were synchronized and then separated. One stayed on the ground as the other was flown high above the earth. When reunited it was noted that the two clocks had a different opinion in what time it was because they had, in their own right, observed it independently of each other.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: evan_au on 17/08/2014 05:00:33

Quote from: swadewade8

the sub-atomic particle neutrino has been clocked at traveling 186415.0858983536 Miles per second (300,006 k.p.s.) which is faster than the speed of light

This result has subsequently been traced to an experimental error (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light_neutrino_anomaly#Measurement_errors) including a loose cable connector.

It is currently believed that neutrinos travel slightly slower than the speed of light. The difference is so slight that it can't be measured with current techniques.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: stokinghem on 13/09/2014 19:48:16

Dear Friends
As per theory of relativity as speed increases time get slower

We are on earth our time related to our speed which is  speed of earth to rotating around Sun or Avg. Earth Surface linear speed by rotation about 470 m/s
 
The orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun averages about 30 km/s (108,000 km/h, or 67,108 mph)

On basis on above conditions and our time unit as 1 want to calculate speed required to slow down time 15 times then earth

Means speed at time pass 15 times slower then our earthen time

Please anybody can help to solve the problem and oblige and provide simple formula to calculate for various time stretching and contraction and speed with reference to Earth time unit 

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: jeffreyH on 14/09/2014 00:57:20

On the subject of there being no God frame the event horizon of a black hole is the only place where we can find a commonality. Light speed is constant to all observers and at the event horizon light speed becomes zero so each horizon has the same properties through this relationship to light. This can theoretically be used as a universal reference point throughout the universe.

Title: Re: What is the relationship between speed and time?
Post by: PmbPhy on 14/09/2014 12:01:28

Quote from: stokinghem

Dear Friends

Welcome to the forum, Friend.

Quote from: stokinghem

As per theory of relativity as speed increases time get slower

The trick with the special theory of relativity is that you need to be very specific with how you phrase things. In your frame of reference things which are at rest will never appear to undergo time dilation. It's only what is moving that exhibits that phenomena. And then the rate at which times runs depends on the speed that it's moving. As you know from experience those things in normal life don't slow down noticeably.

Let the rate at which the ticks between two events on your wristwatch be dt' an let the time between the same two events as measured in the frame someone else's set of clocks is moving (not wrist watches of course by watches at rest in their frame) then the relationship between those two events is

dt = t'/sqrt(1 - v^{2/v2)
[/quote]}

Quote from: stokinghem

We are on earth our time related to our speed which is  speed of earth to rotating around Sun or Avg. Earth Surface linear speed by rotation about 470 m/s
 
The orbital speed of the Earth around the Sun averages about 30 km/s (108,000 km/h, or 67,108 mph)

On basis on above conditions and our time unit as 1 want to calculate speed required to slow down time 15 times then earth

Means speed at time pass 15 times slower then our earthen time

Please anybody can help to solve the problem and oblige and provide simple formula to calculate for various time stretching and contraction and speed with reference to Earth time unit

I've given you what you need. Give it a try and let me know you do.