[CmdrShep2154 (OP)]

It seems like society is going backwards. It seems like each passing year more and more people believe in a fantasy reality. A fantasy reality that believes in outlandish things like "vaccines are the devil" or that "space is fake".

This mindset has even infected physically healthy people.
https://i.imgur.com/oefnJow.png [nofollow]
https://i.imgur.com/bSKKc4w.png [nofollow]
https://i.imgur.com/T2nRyhf.png [nofollow]

There was a time when these type of people aspired to be astronauts.

What has happened to society? We aren't just turning away from science but from reality as well.

[Bored chemist]

In reality most people should not vote to cut the services they depend on.
However the billionaires want them to do that.
So the ones with the money are seeking to undermine reality.

[Pseudoscience-is-malarkey]

I think Brits to this day still see Americans the same way they did in colonial times, and that that we are the "herd" and should be insulted at any opportunity.

[Colin2B]

And not just the US, mite. The American disease is spreading, all over, the world.
Cretins breed like rabbits, lice, vermin, philosophers not at all, and cretins breed cretins.

Let’s keep posts friendly as in site rules please.

[Bored chemist]

I think Brits to this day still see Americans the same way they did in colonial times, and that that we are the "herd" and should be insulted at any opportunity.

Britain elected an American as Prime minister- he stood on an anti immigration platform.
That says something about the electorate.

It was a toss up whether Trump or Boris was a more stupid choice of leader, but the Americans got rid of their mistake, while we still have ours.

[alancalverd]

Britain elected an American as Prime minister

When did we ever get to elect a prime minister? I don't recall his name being on my ballot paper. He was appointed by the 180,000 paid-up members of the Conservative party (or rather, a majority of those who were sober enough to vote), not the UK electorate.

The problem is that we now have the "American disease" of a de facto president, but we don't have the American remedy of a de jure vote to replace him.

Nevertheless it is interesting to note that the only competent Conservative prime minister in recent history was also American.

[Bored chemist]

When did we ever get to elect a prime minister? I don't recall his name being on my ballot paper.

2019; and it didn't need to be.
That's the way our system for choosing a PM works.
It's a poor system; nearly 2/3 of the population voted against his party.

[Petrochemicals]

.

.

Yes when will we see the sanity of days of Mccarthys " red under the bed", social separation based on race, the hippies, arming the fascists of South America, criticising colonialism whilst invading Vietnam. I'm sure everyone on here is yearning for the return of levels of sanity like that.

[alancalverd]

2019; and it didn't need to be.
That's the way our system for choosing a PM works.

You know that is incorrect, even if the gutter press and the idiot box don't.
We vote for a constituency representative, and the person who is best able to command a working majority in Parliament is invited by the Queen to form a government in her name.
Political parties have no constitutional existence in the UK, but prospective MPs tend to align themselves with parties to improve their chance of being elected. Thus the leader of the largest party group represented in Parliament, or who offers the biggest bribe of your money to other parties, tends to be invited to form said government.
The leader of the Conservative party is selected by a vote among the 180,000 paid-up members of that party, with no requirement for proof of sanity or sobriety.
Thus the Prime Minster is not elected by and has no mandate to represent 649 out of the 650 constituencies in the UK. 

Result: I wouldn't vote Conservative because Rory Stewart (the only hint of competence on the front bench) was not elected leader, I couldn't vote Labour because some antisemitic prevaricator had been elected leader, and there was no point in voting for any other candidate in this sharply polarised constituency.
 

[Bored chemist]

You know that is incorrect,

That really is how we choose our PM.

[Bored chemist]

I couldn't vote Labour because some antisemitic...

Got evidence?

Just to save time, roughly half the people in Israel (including many Jewish people) do not support the government of Israel.
Disapproving of the government in Israel is no more anti-Semitic than disapproving of the current UK government is anti British.

[Petrochemicals]

Result: I wouldn't vote Conservative because Rory Stewart (the only hint of competence on the front bench) was not elected leader, I couldn't vote Labour because some antisemitic prevaricator had been elected leader, and there was no point in voting for any other candidate in this sharply polarised constituency.

The anti semitic thing was because of brexit, of which corbyn was an ardent supporter since about 1980, I don't think he really wanted to be PM from the point of the leadership contest, all the way through brexit having to unite a clearly polarized party and up to the election, if he would have opened his mouth once he would be in downing Street.

The left is anti Jewish culture, the right anti Muslim, it is inescapable, it is like trying tell a physicist he should really look into how cows work.  The conservatives have trouble swallowing Islam ,  Labour Judaism.

[alancalverd]

The Brexit business was absurd.

On the Speaker's right we had a bunch of eurosceptic MPs led by an ardent europhile, and on the left, a bunch of europhile MPs  led by a lifelong eurosceptic.

After the referendum the government front bench was committed to do something they didn't believe in, and the opposition front bench was committed to oppose them, despite believing it was the right thing to do.

Just to make it interesting, outside of Parliament the Conservative party is supported by those who stood to lose by Brexit, and the Labour party by those who stood to gain.

[Bored chemist]

On the Speaker's right we had a bunch of eurosceptic MPs led by an ardent europhile, and on the left, a bunch of europhile MPs  led by a lifelong eurosceptic.

Yes; quite absurd.
So the obvious thing to do - since this is meant to be a democracy- is to ask the people (again).
Only one candidate was advocating that.
You accused called him a  "

prevaricator

Pity he didn't win.
I gather the press conned some people into voting against him.

The anti semitic thing was because of brexit,

The smear campaign certainly was.

The left is anti Jewish culture,

As demonstrated by that notorious communist, Hitler.

In general, the Left supports minorities...

the right anti Muslim

Nope, they are simple xenophobes.

If you want to find politicians dressed as Nazis, don't look to the Left.
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/2014/01/22/fine-over-nazi-themed-stag-night-attended-by-cannock-mp/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rees-mogg-s-defender-wore-nazi-uniform-dfmmqplr7
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-politician-faces-investigation-after-11800186

And when they get caught, they pretend it's not anti Jewish...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/21/tory-mp-aidan-burley-nazi-stag-party-france-offensive-not-antisemitic

[alancalverd]

So the obvious thing to do - since this is meant to be a democracy- is to ask the people (again).

and again and again, until they come up with the right answer. That is indeed the European way.

The problem was not a lack of mandate, but the unwillingness of the government to implement the mandate it had asked for, and the inability of the main opposition party to decide what policy to present to the electorate other than "you choose" - exactly what had got the Tories' knickers in a twist in the first place! Not helped by its leader, who, as PM,  would have his finger on the nuclear button but in response to a straight question would not commit either to pressing it or to scrapping it. Two big questions, no answer, electoral suicide.

[alancalverd]

The conservatives have trouble swallowing Islam ,  Labour Judaism.

Too simplistic.

All politicians want is votes.

Time was (1930 - 1970) when the Left opposed fascism, the Right supported it, and the Muslim vote was too small to matter, so Labour was distinctly pro-Jewish and the feeling was mutual. Now there are ten times more Muslims than Jews in the UK, and some (say 10%) are distinctly anti-Jewish, so it behoves one party to secure that vote, and the other party to secure the equal number of Jewish votes by appearing anti-Muslim. Since most British Muslims have brown skin, it is logical for the party with a pro-fascist history to take the anti-Muslim line.

It doesn't really matter who you choose as the Enemy Within, but it's easier for the Press and the electorate to support you if they are visually identifiable. Remember Enoch Powell?   

[Petrochemicals]

The conservatives have trouble swallowing Islam ,  Labour Judaism.

Too simplistic.

All politicians want is votes.

Time was (1930 - 1970) when the Left opposed fascism, the Right supported it, and the Muslim vote was too small to matter, so Labour was distinctly pro-Jewish and the feeling was mutual. Now there are ten times more Muslims than Jews in the UK, and some (say 10%) are distinctly anti-Jewish, so it behoves one party to secure that vote, and the other party to secure the equal number of Jewish votes by appearing anti-Muslim. Since most British Muslims have brown skin, it is logical for the party with a pro-fascist history to take the anti-Muslim line.

While during election time a politician will do and say pretty much anything to gain a vote, what I mean is the actual ethos of said religions is inherant my one way or the other. The Nazi belief in the racial superiority of the German peoples was suddenly found to be on par with the Japanese during Ww2 when necessity required it.

 Islam is very focused on communal operation, ie Afghanistan new beard and Burka trend for everyone and the importance placed on community. Judaism seems far more individual based, personal achievement.

Truthfully both Islam and judaism seem pretty right wing, but so does Christianity and so did Stalin

Communism is power through consensus, fascism is power through belief.

[Bored chemist]

The problem was not a lack of mandate,

Yes it was.
By the time they were actually in a position to act on the referendum result,
(1) the people were known to have changed their minds.
(2) it was clear that the Leave campaign had lied and cheated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_United_Kingdom%27s_membership_of_the_European_Union_(2016%E2%80%932020)#/media/File:Brexit_post-referendum_polling_-_Right-Wrong.svg

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992

until they come up with the right answer. That is indeed the European way.

So you think they should have carried on with what was (by then) known to be the wrong answer.

Well, that's Brexit logic for you- better to be wrong quickly than to get things right.

what policy to present to the electorate other than "you choose"

That's called democracy.
It's actually quite popular- unless the media spin it as something else.

Not helped by its leader, who, as PM,  would have his finger on the nuclear button but in response to a straight question would not commit either to pressing it or to scrapping it.

Funny things that.
Most military commanders will not reveal tactics in advance.
Most people realise it's a stupid thing to ask.

Two big questions, no answer, electoral suicide.

No.
Electoral assassination.

A fair media would have reported that  it's stupid to ask about military decisions in advance.
It goes with the Russian hat and their lies about anti Jewish bias.


What should be political suicide is hiding in a fridge, but that was spun as a good tactic.
Boris was never really asked serious questions about the "oven ready deal" and he just lied about it.
There was no deal.
We now know that.

But the billionaires who own the media didn't want that sort of question asked.

And you have swallowed the propaganda.
How long do the petrol queues have to get?
How severe do the restrictions on rights have to get?
How many people need to be begging at foodbanks?
What will make you realise it was the wrong choice?

[alancalverd]

the people were known to have changed their minds.

To state that 33,000,000 voters have changed their minds is an assertion of psychic power beyond the wildest imaginings of a raving lunatic.

Fortunately we have elections and referenda to eliminate the need for psychics.

[alancalverd]

Most military commanders will not reveal tactics in advance.

This is policy and strategy, not tactics. JC was a lifelong nuclear disarmer, until the opportunity arose for doing it, thus demoting him to the level of "politician".