Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: puppypower on 10/09/2017 13:21:44
-
Science does not believe in things like soul and spirit as the basis for human consciousness. Instead science believes that human consciousness is generated by the brain, using physical and chemical processes. The mechanism may be subject to debate, but the brain as the source is accepted as science.
Since human consciousness is generated by the brain, can the brain generate more than one center of consciousness? Traditional thinking, based on the concepts of soul and spirit, suggest only one center of consciousness per brain, since two souls in one person is rarely mentioned, except as due to invasion by demons. Although the concept of the Holy Spirit acts like a secondary center.
On the other hand, since a large enough computer should be able to support many AI, at the same time, especially if the programming was efficient, could the brain do the same thing?
-
Science is a process. It has no beliefs.
Your definition of consciousness, please?
-
... a large enough computer should be able to support many AI, at the same time ... could the brain do the same thing?
Multiple personality disorder ? ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder
-
Multiple personality disorder ? ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder
Probably split brain syndrome too.
-
... a large enough computer should be able to support many AI, at the same time ... could the brain do the same thing?
Multiple personality disorder ? ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder
That would be personality, not conciousness.
As could the brain support multiple centres, you have to define what you mean by brain and centre of conciousness.
We are self aware sentient beings with free will (well i am anyway, im pretty sure that some people are not, and others are quite aware that they are not concious anyway) . If one self aware entity is defined as a brain, or a brain is the support structure of a singular self aware entity then no, by definition. 2 conciousness 2 brains. The brain generates the means for the concious to exist. Brains are not signifiers of conciousness, insects are little more than robots. I would say the conciousness is a byproduct of a big brain, and only 1 conciousness per brain due to one brain.
Its quite a question and science does not hold the answers to the brain just yet.
If by centre of conciousness , you mean persona, either adopted or created by the brain, mood, relationship, time, memory, ego feelings, subconcious, fear or other primal urge ;) , etc then yes, but it would be the same conciousness acting a different way.
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms.
Then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part.
Problem being if this is true when you subtract all the pieces what is left is something outside mans own perception of himself. And well i5 should as its wholly unnatural. And that i would say is conciousness
As for the computer, a computer is not satisfied (or dissatisfied) it always seeks further, it is always trying to work out the next move rather than understand the present one. If an ai was self aware it would have mastery of its brain, or the thing that had mastery of it would be the self aware piece and brain would total the whole ? Would they just be seperate computers? Or they would not be concious ? So if the cociousness is the brain how could 1 brain be 2 ? If the internet is all connected, would an ai have to exist as one piece, or as any piece, could there be only one AI? is the internet god ?
That is of course if you believe you are conscious
-
Science does not believe in things like soul and spirit as the basis for human consciousness. Instead science believes that human consciousness is generated by the brain, using physical and chemical processes. The mechanism may be subject to debate, but the brain as the source is accepted as science.
I disagree. The nature of consciousness cannot be the brain. This is a common misconception that modern psychiatry is based on. In short, the non-locality of imagination and free will is proof of the immaterial nature of consciousness.
Since human consciousness is generated by the brain, can the brain generate more than one center of consciousness?
Please define "center of consciousness".
On the other hand, since a large enough computer should be able to support many AI, at the same time, especially if the programming was efficient, could the brain do the same thing?
The ubiquity of consciousness cannot be reproduced by a machine. A machine has no internal teleology.
-
As an experiment, say your were walking along and I jump out from behind a door and scared you. Most people will jump. After a slight time delay, many people will become embarrassed and angry for being induced to look awkward and/or squeaking like a little girl.
If you break this down, one is initially reacting with natural instinct, similar to animal consciousness. A dog or cat would react in a similar way. The secondary reaction of the humans differs from the dog. The human becomes aware and then self conscious of their awkward response. This stems from a secondary center, connected to ego consciousness. The dog reacts, assesses and move on, since there is only one center of consciousness.
If you were to practice this, by having someone try to scare you all the time, you could develop free will and choice as how you will react. The practice can help you repress the primary or instinctive center, so it will appear like you have only one center.
-
As an experiment, say your were walking along and I jump out from behind a door and scared you. Most people will jump. After a slight delay, many people will become angry or embarrassed for looking awkward and/or squeaking like a little girl.
If you break this down, one is initially reacting with natural instinct, similar to animal consciousness. A dog or cat would react in a similar way. The secondary reaction of the humans will differ from the dog. The human becomes aware and self conscious of their awkward response; secondarily center connected to ego consciousness. The dog reacts, assesses and move on, since there is only one center of consciousness.
If you were to practice this, by having someone try to scare you all the time, you could develop choice as how you will react. This will repress the primary or instinctive center so it will appear like one center.
I do think that all living beings exhibit a form or another of self-awareness (consciousness). But do not confuse a natural (instinctive) behavior with human intelligence. The latter is a much more advanced quantum holographic
"computer" than artificial intelligence could ever become.
-
Science does not believe in things like soul and spirit as the basis for human consciousness. Instead science believes that human consciousness is generated by the brain, using physical and chemical processes. The mechanism may be subject to debate, but the brain as the source is accepted as science.
Since human consciousness is generated by the brain, can the brain generate more than one center of consciousness? Traditional thinking, based on the concepts of soul and spirit, suggest only one center of consciousness per brain, since two souls in one person is rarely mentioned, except as due to invasion by demons. Although the concept of the Holy Spirit acts like a secondary center.
On the other hand, since a large enough computer should be able to support many AI, at the same time, especially if the programming was efficient, could the brain do the same thing?
As Alancalverd points out, consciousness is not a clearly defined concept. And setting aside your more mystical references for the moment, I think you need to be a bit more clear whether you mean awareness, a sense of volition, or just any mental process that results in a person doing something or selecting one option over other possible ones. There are a lot of studies that demonstrate that behaviors originate from mental processes that happen below the level of conscious awareness.
-
Science does not believe in things like soul and spirit as the basis for human consciousness. Instead science believes that human consciousness is generated by the brain, using physical and chemical processes. The mechanism may be subject to debate, but the brain as the source is accepted as science.
Since human consciousness is generated by the brain, can the brain generate more than one center of consciousness? Traditional thinking, based on the concepts of soul and spirit, suggest only one center of consciousness per brain, since two souls in one person is rarely mentioned, except as due to invasion by demons. Although the concept of the Holy Spirit acts like a secondary center.
On the other hand, since a large enough computer should be able to support many AI, at the same time, especially if the programming was efficient, could the brain do the same thing?
As Alancalverd points out, consciousness is not a clearly defined concept. And setting aside your more mystical references for the moment, I think you need to be a bit more clear whether you mean awareness, a sense of volition, or just any mental process that results in a person doing something or selecting one option over other possible ones. There are a lot of studies that demonstrate that behaviors originate from mental processes that happen below the level of conscious awareness.
The brain can pick up data, subliminally. Such data is often too subtle for conscious awareness and therefore is not part of the conscious center. Yet, this data is still processed and can be reacted to, by another center, who is aware of this data.
This would suggest the conscious center is a secondary or satellite center, to a primary unconscious center. The unconscious center does most of the heavy lifting. However, the conscious center has free will and choice allowing it to make choices with, separate apart and even contrary to the unconscious center.
A good example of this dual center is talking. There are many people who talk without apparent conscious thinking. The words come out structured with language, but it is not fully under conscious control. It may be spontaneous and even witty but it is done unconsciously. The outsider gets the impression of a child riding a bike, with the mother holding the child and bike up. However, the child is self absorbed and thinks he is driving the bike. This is where the ego coordinates with the primary allowing it to have enhancement beyond it conscious ability.
The start of civilization would have required choices apart from long standing instinctive traditions, such as assembling in large groups in stationary locations, where there will be an adverse environmental impact, which will impact long term natural survival. Yet, these needed changes do occur and instinct does not go away. It makes sense that a secondary center appears, leaving the first in tact, instead of a single center evolving to where it loses its connection to instinct. since instinct is part of the DNA and is very conservative.