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Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 13:25:03No you are missing that a virus that adapts to transmit outside has a higher tolerance to sunlight, an indoor transmission virus doesnt, to be transmitted outside during the day that's a requirement.Do you have data that shows COVID-19 is more vulnerable to sunlight than the flu is?
No you are missing that a virus that adapts to transmit outside has a higher tolerance to sunlight, an indoor transmission virus doesnt, to be transmitted outside during the day that's a requirement.
No you are missing that a virus that adapts to transmit outside has a higher tolerance to sunlight
Flu certainly seems alot stronger then covid.
havent seen any direct comparisons between the two
No you dont,
Quote from: Jolly2 on 25/02/2021 23:01:13Could also have evolved in a human population somewhere.Not without them noticing.Why do you insist on suggesting that these people are stupid?
from: Jolly2 on 25/02/2021 23:01:13Could also have evolved in a human population somewhere.
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 28/02/2021 22:49:27Quote from: Jolly2 on 28/02/2021 09:25:30We dont know that, that statement is conjecture. They isolated the virus from infections in wuhan, we don't know how it started there, with 80% having mild flu like symptoms or being asymptomatic, possible it started somewhere else and an infected person caught a train to Wuhan, also possible it came to wuhan at the military games or It escaped the wuhan laboratory Or someone bought ferret badger steaks at the local wuhan market, that were inflected at the farm somewhere else in Asia. We do know that. We know that the corona 19 variant started in wuhan for the reasons we have gone over,No you dont, you only know that's when China after testing samples identified the virus, before it was identified as a novel strain of SARS, most doctors would have told people they have the flu on presenting symptoms. It's only the very elderly they show more severe symptoms.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 28/02/2021 09:25:30We dont know that, that statement is conjecture. They isolated the virus from infections in wuhan, we don't know how it started there, with 80% having mild flu like symptoms or being asymptomatic, possible it started somewhere else and an infected person caught a train to Wuhan, also possible it came to wuhan at the military games or It escaped the wuhan laboratory Or someone bought ferret badger steaks at the local wuhan market, that were inflected at the farm somewhere else in Asia. We do know that. We know that the corona 19 variant started in wuhan for the reasons we have gone over,
We dont know that, that statement is conjecture. They isolated the virus from infections in wuhan, we don't know how it started there, with 80% having mild flu like symptoms or being asymptomatic, possible it started somewhere else and an infected person caught a train to Wuhan, also possible it came to wuhan at the military games or It escaped the wuhan laboratory Or someone bought ferret badger steaks at the local wuhan market, that were inflected at the farm somewhere else in Asia.
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 28/02/2021 22:49:27 with no evidence for the contrary. That is fact. No its assumption.
with no evidence for the contrary. That is fact.
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 28/02/2021 22:49:27If anyone elsewhere had contracted it prior we would have two hotpots. These are facts. No they are not, they are complete assumptions based in hind sight. Until the virus was identified it didn't exist, as far as doctors were concerned, and any doctors seeing a patient expressing the symptoms of covid would most likely diagnose flu.It's only on testing samples a new virus was found GPs don't do that. Not until the elderly became seriously sick anyone bothered to test.
If anyone elsewhere had contracted it prior we would have two hotpots. These are facts.
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 28/02/2021 22:49:27A government cover up on a prior unidentified strain is conjecture. Not with regards to China it isnt, a doctor who was silenced by the Chinese government had been reporting for weeks in November about a respiratory illness, he later died of covid19, the laboratory in wuhan destroyed databases.
A government cover up on a prior unidentified strain is conjecture.
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 28/02/2021 22:49:27Ferret badgers on a train is fantasy.No one suggested ferret badgers on a train. There was the suggestion by the WHO that a ferret Badger farm may have been the source of the intermediary, probably now somewhere in Thailand or Cambodia where the Virus evolved before being shipped as ferret badger steaks to wuhan leading to someone in Wuhan catching covid. Of course in that circumstance you would Expect farm workers to also get infected potentially and you should also be able to find a ferret badger population with a Corona virus strain.Or you could find the driver of the ferret badger steaks bringing the virus to wuhan.All possible, as is also a gain of function virus escaping by accident or being released intentionally. Each hypothesis has certain requirements to be true, with an accidental release you would expect a cover up and we see one in the wuhan laboratory. With an intentional release you would expect the group responsible to use it and the pandemic it would cause to further their agenda. I wonder if there is any international group currently do just that?Ofcourse they can go together where the group that intentionally released the virus had a degree of control and investment in the wuhan laboratory that conducted a cover up.I'm still looking at fort Detrick, where we know there was a release of something, there was a respiratory outbreak the weeks before it closed in an old peoples home, and military personal took covid to the wuhan games. Where many athletes claimed to have had a covid like sickness they caught at the games. Also would if true, explain why, right at the beginning of the pandemic we saw many politicians world wide get sick, all countries had military personal at the games, and military has fsr more close connections to politics, then the public does.There is ofcourse another possibility that the elites of the west and China did it together and that would answer some questions.
Ferret badgers on a train is fantasy.
Comparing two different viruses, both of which could potentially be gain of function.
Simulated sunlight rapidly inactivated the virus in aerosols in either suspension matrix, with half-lives of less than 6 minutes and 90% of the virus inactivated in less than 20 minutes for all simulated sunlight levels tested. There was a small but statistically significant reduction in decay rate under high-intensity sunlight when the virus was suspended in culture medium compared to simulated saliva, suggesting that the matrix in which the virus is suspended may also be an important factor to consider when examining the persistence of SARS-CoV-2 in an aerosol.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 15:38:07Comparing two different viruses, both of which could potentially be gain of function.The flu is not gain of function (at least not artificially). The Spanish flu pandemic happened back in 1918. Do you think gain-of-function research was being done back then on the Spanish flu?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 15:38:07Flu certainly seems alot stronger then covid.How did you come to that conclusion?
Your reference doesn't even give us any numbers for how long COVID survives under UV light to compare with the flu results. Here is a study on the half-life of coronavirus aerosols in sunlight: https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/4/564/5856149QuoteSimulated sunlight rapidly inactivated the virus in aerosols in either suspension matrix, with half-lives of less than 6 minutes and 90% of the virus inactivated in less than 20 minutes for all simulated sunlight levels tested. There was a small but statistically significant reduction in decay rate under high-intensity sunlight when the virus was suspended in culture medium compared to simulated saliva, suggesting that the matrix in which the virus is suspended may also be an important factor to consider when examining the persistence of SARS-CoV-2 in an aerosol.This is a website that simulates how long COVID-19 lasts in various conditions (with sunlight, humidity and temperature variables): https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/sars-airborne-calculatorSetting all of them to the maximum levels gives COVID a half-life of 1.86 minutes. So the half-life of both viruses in sunlight is a matter of minutes (with the specific values depending on the total amount of sunlight, humidity and temperature). Hardly a significant difference.
gain of function research seek to increase the functionality of the virus involved.
I dont know, there is a long history of biological warfare with humans, were scientists at the turn of the century experimenting with flu? I don't know, but its possible.
Simply but seeing that the lower UV levels in sunlight destroy covid wear as it was high intensity UV lamps used to destroy Influenza and it still took, 2.5 minutes.
So that looks like 2.5 minutes for influenza compared to 1.8 for Corona. 0.7 difference.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 23:35:35gain of function research seek to increase the functionality of the virus involved.So the natural flu isn't gain-of-function.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 23:35:35I dont know, there is a long history of biological warfare with humans, were scientists at the turn of the century experimenting with flu? I don't know, but its possible.Get back to me when you have evidence for it.Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 23:35:35Simply but seeing that the lower UV levels in sunlight destroy covid wear as it was high intensity UV lamps used to destroy Influenza and it still took, 2.5 minutes.Your link about the flu says that it was "simulated sunlight", just like in the COVID experiment I posted.Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 23:35:35So that looks like 2.5 minutes for influenza compared to 1.8 for Corona. 0.7 difference.You are comparing apples with oranges. The 2.4 minutes for the flu was an average, whereas the 1.8 minutes for COVID was the most extreme scenario.
If by gain of function you are solely referencing scientific research to add function to a virus then ofcourse flu isn't
Most extreme as the shortest time, or longest?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 02/03/2021 00:18:28If by gain of function you are solely referencing scientific research to add function to a virus then ofcourse flu isn'tNow we're on the same page.Quote from: Jolly2 on 02/03/2021 00:18:28Most extreme as the shortest time, or longest?Shortest. At maximum sunlight intensity, the half-life of COVID can be made to vary from 1.86 minutes to 3.27 minutes by toggling the humidity and temperature. That's an overall average of 2.565 minutes, about the same as the flu average. At 20 oC and 40% humidity, the half-life is as long as the average half-life of the flu under maximum sunlight intensity (2.4 minutes). So their average half-lives are very close.
but it could be either the initial virus used for gain of function research or the source of the virus that jumped to an intermediary somewhere in nature.
or it could be Randy Marsh and Micky Mouse on a bender in China.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 02/03/2021 18:37:46but it could be either the initial virus used for gain of function research or the source of the virus that jumped to an intermediary somewhere in nature. Quote from: Petrochemicals on 26/02/2021 20:58:00 or it could be Randy Marsh and Micky Mouse on a bender in China.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/03/2021 19:33:00Quote from: Jolly2 on 02/03/2021 18:37:46but it could be either the initial virus used for gain of function research or the source of the virus that jumped to an intermediary somewhere in nature. Quote from: Petrochemicals on 26/02/2021 20:58:00 or it could be Randy Marsh and Micky Mouse on a bender in China.Highly unlikely film negative isnt a good host.
Highly unlikely film negative isnt a good host.
it could be either the initial virus used for gain of function research
Quote from: Jolly2 on 03/03/2021 00:40:02Highly unlikely film negative isnt a good host.It's good to see that you recognise the concept.Now, do you understands that it applies to thisQuote from: Jolly2 on 02/03/2021 18:37:46it could be either the initial virus used for gain of function research to such an extent that we should ignore that idea, for the same reasons that we ignore the idea that it was down to Randy and Mickey?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 01/03/2021 23:35:35I dont know, there is a long history of biological warfare with humans, were scientists at the turn of the century experimenting with flu? I don't know, but its possible.Well, if you don't know, ask a grown up, rather than posting nonsense based on your ignorance.They will tell you that nobody even knew what the flu virus was in 1919 because it wasn't identified until 1933.
Stop wasting peoples time with nonsense.
scientists at the turn of the 1900s could have been taking people sick with flu and housing them with healthy people, then when the healthy people became sick with flu, take the most serve case, and repeated the process, until someone died.