Naked Science Forum

Life Sciences => The Environment => Topic started by: neilep on 22/12/2009 13:02:53

Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: neilep on 22/12/2009 13:02:53: Dearest Peeps Of Acadamic Grandeur Scaling Heights That Escalate Into Orbit,

As a sheepy I of course luff snow. Snow is my all time favourite white stuff that is made from water and comes down from clouds. Out off all the stuff that does this, snow is my fave.

look, here I am with my chums enjoying snow.

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Me With chums Enjoying Snow

I noticed that as it was beginning to snow that for a few minutes the snow was big fat snow...perhaps an inch or two wide !...now that's big yes ?..then...after a very short while the snow became well regular in size and was like your usual bog standard dimension !

Why's that then ?..why was the first few minutes of snow big fat snow ?

Ewe see I don't know and this is something that if I knew would be something that I would then know !

I went out later to see if I could find the big fat snowflakes on the ground but they must have known I was coming as they hid themselves amongst the regular snow *le humph*

Anyway..can ewe help ?

hugs & shmishes

mwah mwah mwah !!

Neil
I luff Big fat Snow
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: Karen W. on 22/12/2009 14:36:13: That is an interesting question, and I wonder if the bigger snow flakes are just simply larger drops of rain to start out with and the sprinkling light rain simply smaller mini flakes? Just like a pounding rain with big water drops making, freezing larger flakes, and then a light rain with it's smaller drops, freezing into smaller flakes..... etc....?
Title: Re: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: neilep on 22/12/2009 18:58:06: Thanks Kareny Mam..

Sounds good to me.....but after the few minutes of big fat snow..all we had was regular snow........I snowticed snow fluctuation back to big fat snow during the regular snow !!....snow what I mean ?
Title: Re: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: ukmicky on 22/12/2009 21:28:44: Neil

Were you out in the snow yesterday.

The big chunks looked fantastic as they dropped.

Unfortuatlly the traffic jam they caused and my 5 hour 5 mile journey home wasnt as pleasing.
Title: Re: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: litespeed on 23/12/2009 00:12:46: Neil

The great big flakes are natures way of announcing more to come. I've seen it many times in the old Buffalo Snow Belt, as well as further south. Although I am not a bouncing bundle of sheep fur, many of us find such an exhibition delightful!

I remember the very same in Norfolk VA in 1980. I got to the freeway late, and all the cars were abandoned. I carefully weaved hither and yon mile after mile to a nice cozy motel near the water were I once kept my housboat. Fond memory....I don't remember hooker sheep in the area though....
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: neilep on 23/12/2009 00:43:31: Quote from: ukmicky on 22/12/2009 21:28:44
Neil

Were you out in the snow yesterday.

The big chunks looked fantastic as they dropped.

Unfortuatlly the traffic jam they caused and my 5 hour 5 mile journey home wasnt as pleasing.

Hi Michael,

yes indeedy ..I was out for three hours..abandoned the car and walked back to retrieve it later...total distance travelled...3 miles !
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: neilep on 23/12/2009 01:07:12: Quote from: litespeed on 23/12/2009 00:12:46
Neil

The great big flakes are natures way of announcing more to come. I've seen it many times in the old Buffalo Snow Belt, as well as further south. Although I am not a bouncing bundle of sheep fur, many of us find such an exhibition delightful!

I remember the very same in Norfolk VA in 1980. I got to the freeway late, and all the cars were abandoned. I carefully weaved hither and yon mile after mile to a nice cozy motel near the water were I once kept my housboat. Fond memory....I don't remember hooker sheep in the area though....

Thank ewe very much litespeed...so...nature sends a message by growing big fat snow and dropping that as a polite visual Hors d'oeuvre.

Yes, I agree..it was most delightful to see.

I think I was there in that cozy motel in 1980....but I of course was a nice sheepy in those days..I was working out the back ! [;)]
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: neilep on 23/12/2009 14:06:57: Quote from: DiscoverDave on 23/12/2009 02:48:11
Dear W.C. Neil¹,

Something else has given me a clue:

Big flakes means little accumulation;
Little flakes means big accumulation.

Obviously, if true, there's one cause that produces both of these effects. I think it's temperature. This is, of course, all speculation on my part, and I must warn everyone that I have been very wrong lately on a variety of topics.

Warm air causes moist, sticky snow, meaning big flakes are produced by little sticky flakes clumping together, and also meaning not much snow (as the main form of precipitation).

Cold air causes dry snow, meaning small flakes don't clump together but remain separate, and meaning that the precipitation will come down as snow.

All speculation.

____________________
¹ A nod to W. C. Fields
(but here W.C. means
"Wooly Chum")
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informatiquegifs.com%2Fmoutons%2Fgifs-6.gif&hash=8292c97887c47d0ab65c71fc18a97a4a)

YAYYYY !!

Thanks DiscoverDave !

Your speculation deserves merit..it seems logical and with good reason too !....and if it's not correct then *slams hand down on table* then it bloody well ought to be right !!

Thank ewe for your learn-ed response.

ps: Kwality nod to W.C. [:D]
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: Ho-ho-ho on 24/12/2009 16:33:01: Quote
Why's that then ?..why was the first few minutes of snow big fat snow ?

because of the avaliable moisture In the atmosphere. The bigger flakes indicate that the atmosphere has a high moisture content, as this moisture is used up by making the larger flakes there is less moisture avaliable so you get smaller flakes.
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: neilep on 24/12/2009 17:10:48: Quote from: Ho-ho-ho on 24/12/2009 16:33:01
Quote
Why's that then ?..why was the first few minutes of snow big fat snow ?

because of the avaliable moisture In the atmosphere. The bigger flakes indicate that the atmosphere has a high moisture content, as this moisture is used up by making the larger flakes there is less moisture avaliable so you get smaller flakes.

FANTASTIC !!!....Thank ewe very much Ho-Ho-Ho !!
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: chris on 25/12/2009 23:41:42: That's interesting. So by how much do snowflakes actually grow (on average) on the way down? I always thought that what landed was a what left the cloud; clearly this was a bit naive.

Chris
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: JimBob on 26/12/2009 16:38:02: I suspect the same is true for snowflakes as is try for hail stones. The larger the longer they have been circulating in the clouds and thus having the time to grow the crystal of snow - they are crystals you know. Ice belongs to the hexagonal crystal system.

Quote from: DiscoverDave on 23/12/2009 02:48:11
Dear W.C. Neil¹,

____________________
¹ A nod to W. C. Fields
(but here W.C. means
"Wooly Chum")
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.informatiquegifs.com%2Fmoutons%2Fgifs-6.gif&hash=8292c97887c47d0ab65c71fc18a97a4a)

Not water closet????????????
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: Ho-ho-ho on 26/12/2009 18:02:53: The one thing missing from (my quick scan) of the topic is temperature. Temperature also plays a part in the snow being "wet", "dry", big or small.

The larger, wetter flakes have fallen through relitively moist, mild air and can be as large as 2 cm in diameter.
The smaller flakes tend to be flakes that have fallen through cold, dry air.
You may notice the difference between the flakes when you try making snowballs. The smaller dryer flakes are not as good as the larger wetter ones.

Another difference is that the smaller flakes tend to be single flakes. These dry single flakes don't bind to eachother whereas the larger flakes, are actually make up of hundreds of smaller flakes that have bonded and stuck to eachother.

So another variable is the fall time from cloud to ground. Not only is it the temperature of the cloud, the air the flakes falls through and the avaliable moisture within the cloud a factor but the fall time.
A longer fall time allows more wetter flakes to stick to eachother as they fall.

The wind strength can also affect the size and shape of the flake. Stronger winds may shred the snowflake or rip/snap parts off causing odd looking and smaller flakes.

There are a lot of factors that go in to producing the flakes on your lawn, but I would stick with the answer that the flakes winessed by Neilep were because of the way the avaliable moisture was used up. I say that due to the speed of change and that there was relatively little wind during last weeks fall.

As an aside, snowflakes are not all hexagonal theyare quite commonly triangular in shape. And they are not always White. Snow has fallen (iirc) red, blue and black/grey.

The largest reported flakes were in Montana sometime in the last centuary. They were reported to be pizza sized flakes! I don't know if this is true or if Montanans had pizza in the late 1800's early 1900's.
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: chris on 26/12/2009 18:07:01: ...or very small pizzas...
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: Ho-ho-ho on 26/12/2009 18:12:39: Sorry DiscoverDave.

I posted before fully reading your comments. You did mention temperature. My lazy Reading often leads to skipping words, sentances or even chapters...
Title: Why Was The First Few Minutes of snow..BIG Snow ?
Post by: litespeed on 31/12/2009 18:38:14: neil

Try as I might, I do not recall any sheep out back during the Big Snows of 1980 in Norfolk. Perhaps you were simply shy in those days? Anyway, Big Wet Snow almost always takes place in late Winter or Spring. This is generally the case for two reasons 1) the local lake or other large body of water is clear of ice and available to be evaporated into 2) a warmer atmosphere that can hold lots of moisture.

The lower Great Lakes in the US are infamous for this effect. Take Buffalo New York. PLEASE! Twelve inches of wet heavy snow in late December over a 24hr period; routine. GOOGLE Upper New York Snow, perhaps Syracuse. The snowplows resemble gigantic tunneling machines.

I think the US has the most extreme weather of any nation on the planet. Hell, there is an entire Tourist Tornado Industry in the Midwest. I believe the area becomes, at times, a giant traffic jam of Tornado Chasers. The Gulf Coast is replete with hurricane parties.
If you really really want a snow storm, just fly into Buffalo 24 hrs BEFORE the next projected 200 feet of snow fall.

And of course there is Alaska. I believe the Quantanamo inmates should be transferred to FairBanks. They would sing like deranged canaries just to get back to Club Med QITMO. I am not making this up.

PS: I live in what is probably the best four seasons climate on the planet. The Southern Appalachian Mountains. None-the-less, Christmas Eve Santa flew by so ferociously he blew dozens of shingles off my Southern Roof. I am now taking estimates for a steel roof. They are not as expensive as you might expect.