Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: amrit on 24/12/2005 22:34:21
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[:)]By Newton the speed of gravity is zero, gravitational force acts immediate, by Einstein gravity travel with the speed of light, it is not immediate. Some recent research confirms Newton, gravity is immediate, its speed is zero.
[:p]
Time exists only as an irreversible stream of material changes that run into cosmic space. It is not that change runs in time, change itself is time. Cosmic space itself is a-temporal. Here it is fundamental to understand that clocks are precise instruments with a constant rate of change and run in a-temporal space. With clocks we measure the numerical order and the duration of all changes
In the universe there exist two types of phenomena: temporal phenomena and a-temporal phenomena. “Temporal phenomena” are changes or movements of the material objects or particles in cosmic space, for example the movement of the earth around the sun, or the movement of the light in cosmic space.
[:I]
For “A-temporal phenomena” to happen no movement of particle or material object is needed, which means that for their existence no time is needed. For example, gravitational interaction is carried directly by the density of cosmic space. For gravitational force to be transmitted no travel of particle or wave through the cosmic space is needed. The instantaneous communication between elementary particles in an EPR experiment is carried directly by the a-temporal cosmic space, no travel of particle or wave is needed. A-temporal cosmic space is a “direct information channel” It transports the information from the particle A to the particle B instantl.
[}:)]
Besides, since in Bohm’s theory nonlocal connection between two subatomic particles is tied to the action of the quantum potential, it appears lawful to interpret the quantum potential as the special “state” of a-temporal cosmic space. One can say that, in presence of an atomic or subatomic process (such as the case of an EPR experiment), a-temporal cosmic space assumes the special “state” represented by quantum potential, and this determines an instantaneous communication between the particles in exam.
[xx(]
Gravitational force is carried directly by the density of quanta of space (QS) that build up a-temporal cosmic space. Density (D) of QS of a given volume of cosmic space depends on the density of matter in that given volume of cosmic space: D = mG , where D is a density of QS in the centre of the material object, m is the mass of the object and G is the gravitational constant. The gravitational force Fg between two material objects is given by the following relation: (D1 x D2)/(r square x G) , where r is the distance between the centers of the two material objects.
yours, amrit [;)]
Sources:
- Sorli A, Sorli I. (2004). A-temporal Gravitation, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 1, Num. 2 http://www.ejtp.com/
- Sorli A., Fiscaletti D. (2005). Active Galactic Nucleus As a Renewing System Of the Universe, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 2, Num 6 http://www.ejtp.com/
- Sorli A., Sorli I. (2005) From Space-time to A-Temporal Physical Space, Frontier Perspectives, Vol 14, Num 1
- Sorli A., Sorli I. (2004). Mathematical Time And Physical Time In The Theory Of Relativity, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 1, Num 4 http://www.ejtp.com/
- Fiscaletti D. (2005). A-Temporal Physical Space and Quantum Nonlocality, Electronic Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 2, Num. 6 http:/www.ejtp.com/
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It is generally considered that gravity travels at the speed of light but I can't think of any clear proofs at the moment
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
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Amrit said,"Time exists only as an irreversible stream of material changes that run into cosmic space."
Surely space cannot exist without time, so time must be in the front for the cosmos to expand into the space that time created.[?]
If the speed of gravity is zero and instantaneous then it exists outside time itself.[:0]
I have not heard of anyone proving that any thing exists outside time so I will go along with Einstein until someones comes up with a better explanation.[^]
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Searcher - Little tip... if you want to quote someone thus
quote:
Amrit said,"Time exists only as an irreversible stream of material changes that run into cosmic spac
use the "Reply to this topic" not the "Quick reply" link. Then click on the second button from the right in the window (a page with a curvy red arrow). Use standard Cut & Paste to insert the wording between the quote tags.
Anyway, back to the topic. erm... I've forgotten what I was going to say. Goddam you, cactus juice!
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The best proof of the speed of gravity is by measuring gravitational waves but as yet we have not detected or generated them in the lab. We have however detected the loss of energy of binary pulsars as they orbit each other and shown this to be enirely consistent with the gravity waves that we would expect them to be radiating assuming that gravity like light travelled at the speed of light.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
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I think that a couple of years back someone did a cunning test of the speed of gravity to do with a pulsar (possibly) being eclipsed and slightly gravitationally lensed by Jupiter, I think they got a value somewhere near the speed of light.
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3232
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Thanks for the reference dave if I remember right the experiment measured the second order effects associated with time delay rather than an actual position.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
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http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980905b.html
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There is perpetual confusion on this point. It is easy to see why. The earth orbits the sun, about its actual position in the sky, which is not the position we see. The visible disk of the sun is 8 minutes behind its actual position. So it would appear that gravity "transmits" with infinite speed, while light transmits with speed of light. But gravity is not being "transmitted" from the sun, and received by the earth. Gravity is a curvature of space, and space is curved ahead of the earth in its orbit, just like the road outside you door is already there. The earth follows its path in space, curved by gravity into an orbital path.
Gravitons do not enter into the orbital motion of the earth. Gravitons are only generated when a gravitational energy change occurs, which happens when a gravitation quadrupole is generated. Photons can be generated from an electromagnetic dipole, but gravitons can not be generated from a gravitational dipole.
An example of a gravitational quadrupole would be a rotating dumbell. A cosmic example would be the collapse of a rapidly rotating neutron-star binary system into a black hole. Such an event, happening in our galaxy would be detectable by gravitational telescopes.
"F = ma, E = mc^2, and you can't push a string."
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gsmollin - quote:
Gravity is a curvature of space, and space is curved ahead of the earth in its orbit, just like the road outside you door is already there. The earth follows its path in space, curved by gravity into an orbital path.
GSM - if we visualize gravity (Spacetime), give it a shape, this shape has to travel and change, an undulating ripple/warp in spacetime, How is this changing shape held together instantanously.
I could not join any group that would have me as a member!
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Surely to agree with various bits of relativity gravity must travel at the speed of light or slower, otherwise you could conceivably transmit information faster than the speed of light.
Are there not virtual gravitons that transmit the force of gravity in the same way that there are virtual photons that transmit the electromagnetic force, you just need a rotating quadrapole to emit a self perpetuating ripple that we would see as a gravity wave...?