[Bored chemist]

Wannabe Wit, methinks. 

You are on record as thinking a lot of things that are wrong.

[CliveG]

It is worth summarizing.

God has an agenda which is simple to state but takes a very clever implementation to achieve.

The agenda is: a) Decrease the world population b) Change society to recognize the wrong direction and become more spiritual.

A quick and drastic decrease would achieve the first part, and there are elements of it in Covid-19. But it would not change society. A few years ago I figured that in order to achieve a die-off the pathogen would have to spread widely and silently before activating. I had to use logic and guesswork because I was not given details. I did think that my experiences would give me some clues.

I suffered the long-term effects of systemic histoplasmosis (bat fungus in my blood stream) and my late wife died from the same thing. So I thought there might be a combination of fungus and virus that would spread.

But my experiences did not stop. When I suffered from a cell tower next to us and I learned from research just how slow and silent the damage is, I then thought that the die-off would be slow using degraded immune systems and the usual diseases like cancer, heart attack and others.

However, that would be too slow and there is no "message", so God is using a combination of disasters to communicate to the world that it must change. The corona virus is designed to have a number of clever effects.

It is a stealth virus in a number of ways, and so can spread fear and panic. Watch the documentary "Pandemic" which came out on Netflix on November 2019. It has a long incubation period and can spread in asymptomatic people. The US now suspects that people had died earlier than previously thought. Western governments miscalculated and were too sure that their advanced science would be able to deal with any sort of outbreak.

SARS, MERS and Ebola were intended to add to the sense of false security. The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited. The mask controversy also had a double achievement. It showed how governments and scientists lie and cannot be trusted, and it also allowed a wider spread of the virus.

The virus spread to the rich and powerful nations in a way that could not have been worse if planned. Actually it was planned - by God. The industrial hub of Italy, then Spain, the UK and the USA. China had shut itself down.

The timing was also designed to catch the world at a bad time economically. It has wreaked havoc with economies in ways that are still to be seen and felt. The world was beginning to slow down. The 2008 toxic debt had not been cleared and interest rates are at an all time low. The oil crisis then hits with nations unable to agree to cuts. Some nations (Venezuela and Nigeria for example) are going to see massive health problems due to collapsing economies.

The virus was also designed with another message - decreasing the population by targeting the old and the infirm. If an agency was to design a population decrease virus, that would be one of the key design criteria.

People are going to change their habits. Less spending and less waste. It has been demonstrated that climate change is possible if the short-term pain is accepted. More emphasis on charity. The financial inequality will decrease. Governments and secular institution are going to be seen as less powerful. People will turn to religion for answers.

And some may say God is punishing the world for it's greed and destruction of the planet. They may be right. Some children think their parents are hateful and nasty when they get punished. Some people think the same of God who is acting for the long term good of mankind.

[hamdani yusuf]

many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes.

Really? The multiverse is surely a mathematical tool for prediction, not a physical entity.

The word many doesn't necessarily mean most. But based on the title of the video below, they do seem to believe that multiverse might be a physical entity, even though we don't have the evidence yet.

[Bored chemist]

The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.

Science has not been discredited.
The power of prayer has.


Trials start today in the UK on a vaccine. The work was coordinated and assisted by the WHO.
Try being less obviously wrong.

And it seems you forgot to answer this.

So, what did I say about masks that was wrong?
(please remember that the world has moved on in the meantime)

[CliveG]

many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes.

Really? The multiverse is surely a mathematical tool for prediction, not a physical entity.

The word many doesn't necessarily mean most. But based on the title of the video below, they do seem to believe that multiverse might be a physical entity, even though we don't have the evidence yet.
(video)

Talk about Math-a-Magics. Wow, how did he manage to keep a straight face the whole time? Even when soliciting the dollars  . He even kept a straight face when talking about aliens. (A it of tongue in cheek here). But I do not know the guy. He might very well be a solid well grounded professor.

Calculations based on the physics of the nature of exponential expansion? This is taking speculation to new heights (not to mention new dimensions).

There is one reason for wanting to believe (and I mean believe in every sense of the word) in multiverses. It is to avoid having to deal with what caused the Big Bang. It is another turtle in the infinite stack of turtles that the universe sits on. It just pushes back having to deal with the Prime Cause of what caused EVERYTHING! So far back that people forget it requires an answer.

Assume for 1 second that multiverses exist. What caused them to exist? Why the Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG of course. 

[CliveG]

The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.

Science has not been discredited.
The power of prayer has.


Trials start today in the UK on a vaccine. The work was coordinated and assisted by the WHO.
Try being less obviously wrong.

And it seems you forgot to answer this.

So, what did I say about masks that was wrong?
(please remember that the world has moved on in the meantime)

I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.

[Bored chemist]

I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.

Good idea, because you know you haven't got any actual examples.

Were you hoping nobody would notice?

[Bored chemist]

Assume for 1 second that multiverses exist. What caused them to exist? Why the Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG of course. 

Assume for 1 second that multiverses the Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG  exists. What caused them to exist?

[Bored chemist]

There is one reason for wanting to believe (and I mean believe in every sense of the word) in multiverses God. It is to avoid having to deal with what caused the Big Bang God. It is another turtle in the infinite stack of turtles that the universe sits on. It just pushes back having to deal with the Prime Cause of what caused EVERYTHING! So far back that people forget it requires an answer.

You seem not to have realised that you are argiung against yourself.

[Colin2B]

You seem not to have realised that you are argiung against yourself.

Not sure what you expect from a self confessed disciple of the devil. Thing that surprises me is that @duffyd appears to see him as a fellow traveller.

[duffyd]

Watch the documentary "Pandemic" which came out on Netflix on November 2019.

Is it any good?

[duffyd]

Science can't refute the claims Christ made for all its achievements and insights. Science cringes before HIM. It has no idea what to make of the things which HE said; no idea at all what to do with Him as everyone can clearly see right here. No human being talked like HE did. No one written about was portrayed like this man, GOD's SON, as revealed on this planet, not even close. No one has ever written any fiction that describes a Character like JESUS. He is totally original, totally unique, totally special and HE escaped the talents of our best artists to capture His life and spirit. There are no parallels. HE was flesh and blood. He loved and ached and was in every way like us--without sinning--and simultaneously, HE was not anything like us. He was/is as vastly different from us as infinity is to a string.

(Except CS Lewis. He came closer than anyone to painting a picture of HIS true likeness. His Narnia series delighted children and adults alike who have been enthralled with the depiction of HIS essence.
The profile of the Head Of Christ by Rembrandt ain't too shabby, 1655, either.)

Can you imagine in your wildest dreams actually meeting Him in real time and space 2,000 years ago? Try to. It is incredible. HE did exist so it isn't impossible to picture HIM in your mind's eye.

[duffyd]

I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.

U R ON FIRE, bro. Way to go.

[Bored chemist]

Science can't refute the claims Christ made

Exactly hat claims did Christ make?

Science cringes before HIM.

No.
Most of don't "cringe" before Him, any more than we cringe before Voldemort; and for the same reason.

You should really stops saying things that are plainly wrong.

It has no idea what to make of the things which HE said

Very few of the things He's  meant to have said are anything to do with science.
However, science can often point out that others said the same things earlier. (Because, most of them are pretty obvious things to say).

No human being talked like HE did.

Nobody actually knows how He talked.
What we have are deliberately (and beautifully) poetic  writings- but they were written over a thousand years later.

It's not as if anyone was stood next to the disciples taking shorthand notes.

At best the writings would have been "edited" as they were written.

Science knows this.
You ignore it- because it's a fact that you don't like.

He is totally original,

No, as I said, others taught much the same things, but much earlier. He's almost entirely derivative.

There are no parallels.

Apart from all the other "prophets" of the time.

No one has ever written any fiction that describes a Character like JESUS.

Well, apart from all the other similar figures in many religions.

Except CS Lewis. He came closer than anyone to painting a picture of HIS true likeness than anyone. His Narnia series delighted children and adults alike

So, the best representation of Christ is a kids story.
Well, I'm, OK with that, but I'd not have expected you to be.

The profile of the Head Of Christ by Rembrandt ain't too shabby, 1655, either

How would you know?
Are you 2000 years old?

Your posts are so absurd I'm beginning to wonder if you are actually a dedicated atheist, parodying the sort of cobblers that the God squad come up with.

I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.

U R ON FIRE,

Not yet, but he may face eternal torture for making false claims, and for divination.
Leviticus 19:26
It's the messing about with cards that does it.
The church is quite clear on that matter.

Way to go.

You seem to think the "way to go" involves not actually paying attention to reality.
That's fine in church, but it gets you laughed at here.

(That's not the same as "cringing", btw)

[duffyd]

The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.

I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.

Gary R. HabermasMarch 31, 2013
“What? Are you serious? Who’d believe this in our modern world? You’d have to think the Gospels are inspired by God or something like that, and they’re a bunch of myths!”

To the contrary, I will assume nothing special about the New Testament writings whatsoever. I will use only the historical information that is accepted as historical by virtually all scholars who have studied this material today-no matter how skeptical or liberal they are. That means, for example, that I will only cite New Testament passages, ones that pass the customary skeptical standards and are recognized as such. Using only these “minimal facts,” I will still maintain that Jesus’ resurrection is the most likely explanation for what we know.

As a preface to this discussion, scholars very rarely question whether Jesus died due to the practice of crucifixion. In dozens of medical studies, the majority view is that asphyxiation plays the major role here. You don’t have to be a physician. Just know how to nail or tie someone to a structure, with their weight pulling down on their outstretched arms. Further, in ancient records, they broke ankles (to induce asphyxiation), crushed skulls, or stabbed chests simply in order to insure death. A person who was just crucified was hardly capable of convincing his witnesses that he was the risen Savior! In their wounded and sickly condition, they might be alive, but no one would declare them raised in a wonderful new body!

[duffyd]

The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.

I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.

Gary R. HabermasMarch 31, 2013
“What? Are you serious? Who’d believe this in our modern world? You’d have to think the Gospels are inspired by God or something like that, and they’re a bunch of myths!”

To the contrary, I will assume nothing special about the New Testament writings whatsoever. I will use only the historical information that is accepted as historical by virtually all scholars who have studied this material today-no matter how skeptical or liberal they are. That means, for example, that I will only cite New Testament passages, ones that pass the customary skeptical standards and are recognized as such. Using only these “minimal facts,” I will still maintain that Jesus’ resurrection is the most likely explanation for what we know.

As a preface to this discussion, scholars very rarely question whether Jesus died due to the practice of crucifixion. In dozens of medical studies, the majority view is that asphyxiation plays the major role here. You don’t have to be a physician. Just know how to nail or tie someone to a structure, with their weight pulling down on their outstretched arms. Further, in ancient records, they broke ankles (to induce asphyxiation), crushed skulls, or stabbed chests simply in order to insure death. A person who was just crucified was hardly capable of convincing his witnesses that he was the risen Savior! In their wounded and sickly condition, they might be alive, but no one would declare them raised in a wonderful new body!

John writes to combat this false teaching, but doesn’t directly assault their beliefs. Rather, John
just restates the truth, over and over! As the last apostle alive John possessed considerable
apostolic authority. He walked with Jesus, ate with Jesus, and was directly taught by Jesus.
Thus John doesn’t have to waste time establishing his authority, everyone knew his authority
— he was an eyewitness to the life of Jesus.


But what can be said about Jesus Christ appearing to his followers after his death?

Consider just the following details that the vast majority of skeptical scholars allow:

(1) Most scholars agree that Jesus’ tomb was discovered empty shortly afterwards. With almost two dozen reasons favoring this report alone, what best explains this? Other hypotheses do not account for all the data.

(2) Many eyewitnesses assert that they saw the risen Jesus, both individually and in groups. Even apart from the Gospels, we can establish this totally from just two passages in Paul’s “undisputed writings”:

--Paul told the Corinthians that he had received the Gospel resurrection report from others (1 Corinthians 15:1-8).

--The consensus critical view is that Paul probably obtained this material in Jerusalem, when he visited the eyewitness apostles Peter and James, the brother of Jesus (Galatians 1:18-24).

--Paul returned to Jerusalem 14 years later and specifically checked out the nature of the Gospel message, again with eyewitnesses Peter, James, and now John (Galatians 2:1-10).

--All the apostles agreed that Jesus appeared to them after his death (1 Corinthians 15:11).

(3) Further, critical scholars also agree that Paul received this material from the other apostles at an exceptionally early date-only about five years after the crucifixion. But since the others knew the reports before Paul did, we are right back to the events themselves. Even the best-known critical scholar today, non-Christian specialist Bart Ehrman, dates several Christian traditions as early as just a year or two after the crucifixion!

(4) But why should we believe that these eyewitnesses were being honest? We have first century sources that the three apostles mentioned above were all martyred: Paul, Peter, and James the brother of Jesus. Of course, people die for all sorts of ideas, but only for what they are convinced is true. But unlike others, the apostles were in a position to know whether or not they had seen Jesus Christ alive after his death. By being willing to die, scholars agree that they were convinced that Jesus had indeed appeared to them. At the very least, this addresses their honesty and conviction.

5) Of these eyewitnesses, Paul was a persecutor of the early Christians, and James was an unbeliever. Skeptical scholars accept this in both cases. But why did they become believers? Again, they were certainly in a position to know whether the risen Jesus had appeared to them.

But aren’t the Gospels full of myths? I don’t think that can be substantiated at all, but that’s another subject. Notice that we didn’t use the Gospels here. We only used texts that are accepted by virtually all scholars who have studied these events in detail. As Ehrman points out, the pagan dying and rising gods motif has many serious problems and cannot be used to argue some sort of copycat theory by the early Christian apostles.

Altogether, these five reasons are each based on a well-evidenced foundation, built on texts that are accepted as historical by virtually all scholars, whatever their religious persuasion. Readers who choose to reject them must consider whether they are doing so for other than factual reasons.

[duffyd]

Many have tried for 2,000 years to discredit the N.T. You saw it here with statements from folks like Alan who stated most boldly and gravely that it was written 200 years after something, proving he has no idea what he's saying. None.

[duffyd]

Smarter, better formed questions would challenge why people would doubt the N.T. Especially with all the credible information we have today that substantiates its many factual accounts.

[duffyd]

Smarter, better formed questions would challenge why people would doubt the N.T. Especially with all the credible information we have today that substantiates its many factual accounts.

Smarter, better formed questions would challenge why people would doubt the N.T. Especially with all the credible information we have today that substantiates its many factual accounts.

"Exactly my point, or at least parallel to it. Christians ignore Christ's teaching (forgiveness), invent or ignore some selfcongratulatory drivel, then say they are doing it in Jesus' name." Alan

Let's look a little closer. This comment from the same "Alan" who says Jesus was a good guy but got whacked for pissing off big shots back in the day and that the N.T. is a bunch of bologna, insists that Christians ignore Christ's teachings on forgiveness.

[alancalverd]

There's little point in doubting the historical aspects of the New Testament. Confused, but fairly consistent with what we know of the period from other sources. It's the latterday garbage that christians hang onto it that is so absurd, along with Revelations. And it is worth remembering that the Triune Deity was invented by the Council of Nicea in AD325 - a typical "committee  horse" that looks like a deformed camel.