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  4. In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
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In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?

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Offline Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)

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In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« on: 02/03/2023 14:40:29 »
When the World Trade Center collapsed on 9-11, it contaminated the air with all kinds of toxic material that caused death and permanent health problems. How are these toxic asbestos and other carcinogens kept at bay by the fine professionals in the controlled demotion industry?
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Online Bored chemist

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #1 on: 02/03/2023 14:49:54 »
They take the asbestos out before they demolish the building.
Most buildings are not really toxic- apart from sand which is carcinogenic.
If buildings were actually toxic they would poison the people inside them. That's rare but I have heard of it happening.
The wrong grade of chipboard gave off a lot of formaldehyde.

It's also helpful to avoid filling the building with jet fuel and setting it on fire.
People typically manage that.

« Last Edit: 02/03/2023 14:57:53 by Bored chemist »
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Offline Petrochemicals

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #2 on: 02/03/2023 17:54:03 »
All toxic substances are supposed to be removed prior to demolition. Dust is the major pollutant, cement dust silica is known to be carcinogenic to a lesser extent in a similar way to asbestos, super fine needle particles lodging in the lungs, repeated working with concrete dust is hazardous. Demolition is less likely to produce fine particulates than a Brading concrete due to the breaking action on the structure but dust needs to be controlled, usually with water.
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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #3 on: 02/03/2023 20:40:07 »
Also trying to use curtains to cover up the building being demolished, & covering up the others in it's surrounding area might be helpful.

Spraying jets of sprinkled water, right after the demolition, to settle down the particulate pollutant matter would help.

& Definitely cordoning of the whole block, or a few surrounding blocks, depending upon the size of the structure being demolished would come in handy.

Anemometers!
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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #4 on: 02/03/2023 23:26:29 »
Rain. Remarkably effective at Chernobyl.
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Offline Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #5 on: 03/03/2023 00:30:58 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/03/2023 23:26:29
Rain. Remarkably effective at Chernobyl.
Remarkably effective in 1588 when the Spanish Empire sent 130 warships to invade England.
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Offline evan_au

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #6 on: 03/03/2023 05:04:04 »
The World Trade Center attack on 9/11 was an uncontrolled demolition, with people still inside the building, and first responders rushing into buildings that would soon collapse.

Quite a number of these people inhaled dust and asbestos fibers (the latter were used as fire insulation - but designed for an office fire, not a fueled jetliner).
- Quite a number of first responders have subsequently died from respiratory diseases; by some estimates, this number exceeds the number of people who were killed on the day.
https://www.mesothelioma.com/blog/remembering-mesothelioma-victims-on-911/
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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #7 on: 03/03/2023 05:18:49 »
Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 03/03/2023 00:30:58
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/03/2023 23:26:29
Rain. Remarkably effective at Chernobyl.
Remarkably effective in 1588 when the Spanish Empire sent 130 warships to invade England.
Armada, followed closely by Armada 2, the English failure. All part of the English Spanish wars and the Reformation. The Dutch are always Revolting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Spanish_War_(1585%E2%80%931604)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation

The Spanish Armada was hindered by wind.
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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #8 on: 03/03/2023 09:36:07 »
Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 03/03/2023 00:30:58
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/03/2023 23:26:29
Rain. Remarkably effective at Chernobyl.
Remarkably effective in 1588 when the Spanish Empire sent 130 warships to invade England.
And significant in subsequent conflicts too - daylight bombing and airborne invasion are very weather-dependent. Climate change since 1066 was not entirely harmful.
« Last Edit: 03/03/2023 09:38:14 by alancalverd »
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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #9 on: 03/03/2023 10:54:36 »
Quote from: evan_au on 03/03/2023 05:04:04
The World Trade Center attack on 9/11 was an uncontrolled demolition, with people still inside the building, and first responders rushing into buildings that would soon collapse.

Quite a number of these people inhaled dust and asbestos fibers (the latter were used as fire insulation - but designed for an office fire, not a fueled jetliner).
- Quite a number of first responders have subsequently died from respiratory diseases; by some estimates, this number exceeds the number of people who were killed on the day.
https://www.mesothelioma.com/blog/remembering-mesothelioma-victims-on-911/
Everyone remembers 9/11, and so they should.
But most of the first responders were present at many fires. That's their job.
And any fire emits toxic materials. While the particular fire under discussion was a big nasty one, it's not realistic to ascribe subsequent deaths to that particular incident.
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Offline evan_au

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #10 on: 04/03/2023 11:24:31 »
Quote from: bored chemist
it's not realistic to ascribe subsequent deaths to that particular incident.
Nor should they deny that all subsequent deaths were unrelated to exposure at work.

It is difficult for the legal system to deal with cases where there may have been an increased risk of some adverse event from an alleged cause, but also the possibility that it may have been unrelated to the alleged cause.
- The only options seem to be that it was or was not related to the alleged cause.
- This is especially difficult in the very litigious USA
- Penalties/compensation seems to be quite random (from a distance)

In Australia, it is accepted that if you worked in an asbestos mine or an asbestos factory and later develop mesothelioma , that your condition is work-related. But life expectancy after diagnosis is around 9 months, and it takes a similar time for the compensation scheme to swing into action. 
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Offline Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #11 on: 05/03/2023 13:07:02 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 03/03/2023 05:18:49
Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 03/03/2023 00:30:58
Quote from: alancalverd on 02/03/2023 23:26:29
Rain. Remarkably effective at Chernobyl.
Remarkably effective in 1588 when the Spanish Empire sent 130 warships to invade England.
Armada, followed closely by Armada 2, the English failure. All part of the English Spanish wars and the Reformation. The Dutch are always Revolting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Spanish_War_(1585%E2%80%931604)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation

The Spanish Armada was hindered by wind.
Wind AND rain.
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Offline vhfpmr

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Re: In controlled demolitions, what procedures are applied to prevent air toxicity?
« Reply #12 on: 05/03/2023 13:35:40 »
Quote from: evan_au on 04/03/2023 11:24:31
Quote from: bored chemist
it's not realistic to ascribe subsequent deaths to that particular incident.
Nor should they deny that all subsequent deaths were unrelated to exposure at work.

It is difficult for the legal system to deal with cases where there may have been an increased risk of some adverse event from an alleged cause, but also the possibility that it may have been unrelated to the alleged cause.
- The only options seem to be that it was or was not related to the alleged cause.
- This is especially difficult in the very litigious USA
- Penalties/compensation seems to be quite random (from a distance)

In Australia, it is accepted that if you worked in an asbestos mine or an asbestos factory and later develop mesothelioma , that your condition is work-related. But life expectancy after diagnosis is around 9 months, and it takes a similar time for the compensation scheme to swing into action. 
Armley asbestos disaster is one of Britain's biggest industrial accidents with ~300 dead, and counting, but it's little known. From 1874 to 1959 the Roberts factory was spreading asbestos all over Armley, kids used to have snowball fights with the dust, and about 1000 homes were tested and found to be contaminated, but weren't made safe until 2008. The story was exposed by the Yorkshire Post in the 1970s when the mesothelioma incidence started rising, and Armley now has the highest rate in the country.

My parents lived just down the road when they were first married, if I'd been born 10 years earlier I could have been one of the kids throwing snowballs.
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