[syhprum (OP)]

Seeing the clear skies I expect to Hurricanes and Messersmits chasing each other round in circles being the oldest member there are many points I would like to discuss with fellow correspondents

[Origin]

Go for it!

[syhprum (OP)]

Wars are won by logistics not by bravery or technology, the Germans had excellent aircraft and highly trained pilots but had little chance of winning the "battle of Britain", we were told of the terrible fate that would befall us if we were not saved by the few, we would lose our prime minister and have to speak German but I think most people would be relieved if we had peace at this time .
The return of Edward VIII would be welcome also the expulsion of the Jewish population to some far flung corner of the empire as UK was as antisemitic like most of Europe (this was years before the final solution).
Our forces would presumably have to join in the fight with the USSR but with with plentiful supplies of fuel the outcome could well be better.
But it could never have happened our air force was dispersed in small groups , if an aircraft was shot done often the pilot survived due the the gentlemans agreement not to kill pilots as they parachuted down (very misguided from a military point of view) he could be given a new plane to fight again where as the German pilot went of to interment.
We had a rather crude RADAR system which was well used telling from where and whence the German airforce (managed by a WWI fighter ace)  was comming

[alancalverd]

The "gentleman's agreement" is a bit suspect. The presumption is that a pilot who parachutes over enemy territory is a useful source of intelligence and therefore to be captured and treated as a PoW, whereas one who bales out over his own territory is still a combatant. But chasing down a parachutist is a secondary consideration whilst you are engaged with enemy fighters who are trying to kill you.  A parachutist is a very small target, descending and laterally stationary, but air fighting demands height, irregular movement, and a large target. Chances are that the parachutist is badly injured anyway and thus a burden rather than an asset. The major concern during the Battle of Britain wasn't a shortage of aircraft, which can be built in a couple of days, but loss of pilots who take months to train and years to grow a decent moustache.

The official history suggests that having wrought havoc over the south coast and Kent, the Nazis underestimated the strength of the RAF north of the Thames and thought that bombing London would be a piece of cake and demoralise the population. Being at the limit of German fighter range, the bombers were now largely unprotected from the hordes descending from Hornchurch and Duxford, and as a popular current TV show points out, East Enders get really annoyed and go for revenge rather than surrender. Prahd te be a Ackney lad meself, guv.

Unlike Hollywood, where the US President has the status of a chess king, loss of a prime minister has no constitutional impact in the UK, though the loss of a good one (and you may be old enough to remember one) can lead to the appointment of a bad one and involve a lot of paperwork.

[syhprum (OP)]

Spitfires could almost have been designed to kill the pilots with the fuel tank installed in front of the pilot ready to pour burning fuel on them.
A few spitfires are maintained in working order for entertainment do they have the fuel tank relocated and modern radio equipment ?

[alancalverd]

The wings were full of guns and wheels, and it was (still is) entirely normal to carry fuel in the fuselage. Apart from a lucky head-on shot, any bullet that hit the upper, lower or rear fuel tank would almost certainly have passed through the pilot. I think the Me109 actually had the pilot sitting on the fuel tank, but was more likely to kill the pilot during takeoff or landing. In fact a cylindrical fuel tank has the smallest target profile for a given volume apart from a sphere. which would waste a lot of space.

You could get away with  the original radio fit nowadays, as long as you don't use it, but since most warbirds are used for display you really need a 720 (US) or 2160 (Europe) channel radio to get there and stay out of everyone's way.  Fortunately the new kit is much smaller and doesn't spoil the cockpit appearance.

[syhprum (OP)]

The two good prime ministers that I can recall are Nevile Chamberlain who kept us out of the war for a year while our airforce and radar system was being built up and Clement Attlee who gave us a glimpse of what socialism would be like
Both all so had serious faults

[Just thinking]

What about the Japanese pilots that left their bass knowing that they would not return their last weapon was their aircraft and preferred death over surrender. The Japanese gave the US a big run for their money.

[alancalverd]

What about the Japanese pilots that left their bass knowing that they would not return their last weapon was their aircraft and preferred death over surrender.

A very wasteful approach, and difficult to find experienced instructors. Irish kamikaze pilots, in contrast, get a medal for completing five missions.

The Japanese gave the US a big run for their money. 

Destroying the US Pacific fleet and most of their ground-based aircraft at Pearl Harbor was the equivalent of scoring a goal before kickoff.

[alancalverd]

What was with the mo/ustache?

Absolutely vital piece of kit, my dear chap. Along with the girlfriend's knickers in one pocket, slightly grubby wings on the chest, and a battered cap with Brylcreem stains. Can't go around looking like a novice!

It's sobering to note that the Old Man in a bomber crew was probably no more than 25 and half the fighter pilots were in their teens.

[Just thinking]

A very wasteful approach, and difficult to find experienced instructors. Irish kamikaze pilots, in contrast, get a medal for completing five missions.

The Japanese had no choice as the battle was too far for the planes to return for fuel so they left knowing that returning to bass was never an option. It was a case of carrying out the mission or be beheaded their families were promised good support after the war for the sacrifice of there airmen.

[Just thinking]

t's sobering to note that the Old Man in a bomber crew was probably no more than 25 and half the fighter pilots were in their teens.

Yes, they were very brave men not like most of the little baby's running around the street today.

[Just thinking]

I must say the spitfire was the slickest looking fighter of its time it must have put extra chills up the enemies spine.

[alancalverd]

Why did the Soviet Il/yushin-2 Sturmovik have an external/underslung oil cooler/radiator?
Where it could be shot up, from behind, anyway, and U couldn't have a hardpoint.
Was it to take advuntage of the "Meredith effect" or was it a poor man's cabin heater?
And what about the P-51 Mustang and Hurricane, then?

Pretty well the only bulletproof part of a fighter was the secondary windscreen. Spitfires had one or two external radiators under the wings: much the same total area as they used the same engine, but differently configured because the undercarriage folded in the opposite sense.

[alancalverd]

But how did they cope with the fact that it wasn't actually on/over the Cg?lift?

The CG is generally close to the CL  to minimise elevator drag but it obviously moves around as you burn fuel or expend munitions, so you are frequently adjusting the trim tab en route to or from combat. Cruise trim was less critical in the Mustang which had most of the fuel in the wings ( so you have to switch tanks from time to time in cruise to keep the wings level) , and flying the Concorde involved a lot of pumping fuel between tanks to maintain trim,

The center of lift is actually the sum of all the lift vectors, so as long as the wing configuration is fixed, so is the CL. Variable sweep wings present another problem but the behavior is very similar to deploying flaps on a fixed wing: in landing configuration the CL/CG moment changes so you (or the computer) re-trim to bring the nose down.

[Bored chemist]

Destroying the US Pacific fleet and most of their ground-based aircraft at Pearl Harbor was the equivalent of scoring a goal before kickoff.

Which is the sensible way to do it, if you can get away with it.
It's also how you invent Rugby.

[Just thinking]

    Destroying the US Pacific fleet and most of their ground-based aircraft at Pearl Harbor was the equivalent of scoring a goal before kickoff.

Which is the sensible way to do it, if you can get away with it.
It's also how you invent Rugby.

War is a dirty thing no matter what the reason sometimes a bad thing can have a reasonable outcome. The Japanese were relentless filters and as a result the very worst decision was made to stop the war by dropping the bombs on Japan. Killing civilians women and children with all intention and no warning was the worst thing to come from so called humanity. I hope it never happens again but it most probably will. We can have the very best of intentions but there is always someone that will not.