Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: OldMan on 09/02/2004 02:49:43
-
Hi everybody!
Long time reader first time writer, ah I've always wanted to say that, great little forum you've got here I often enjoy reading up on this and that while havind lunch at work. Anyroad, down to business.
A few months back I had the flu which started as a dull ache in my right shoulder and eventually turned to agony in most joints. After I'd gotten over it my arms, particularly the right were very weak especially when reaching above shoulder height, I couldn't get my arms above my head for a while. Soon enough my left arm was back to normal but the right remained weak and feeble. I saw the doctor as I was also having asthma trouble and he said it was likely just some inflamation, gave me some anti-inflamatories which did seem to help a little. More recently it felt like the right has been growing slowly stronger, however I would use my shoulder blade in strange ways to help me do certain lifting or movement.
The other day I finally went to the physio and it turns out the muscle over my right shoulder blade, can't remember the name, has severe atrophy. You can see the difference where the right shoulder blade is sunken in and the left is flat and normal. Also the reflex in my right arm is very low. The physio said I'm using my shoulder blade in strange ways when moving my arm and the feeling of it getting stronger is likely just me adapting and compensating with other muscles and forms of movement. The bottom line is he thinks the flu has effected the nerve leading to that muscle in some fashion. I now have to see a neurologist to find out what is happening with that nerve.
I guess my question is, does anyone have an idea of what may have happened to the nerve and what is the likelyhood that I'll regain the use of this muscle?
There is also a family history of Multiple Scelrosis, I've never been diagnosed but I guess this is something I should probably mention to the neurologist when I see them.
Thanks
Tim
-
Hi Tim, welcome to the forum.
Respiratory illnesses like influenza, although it's rare, can trigger nerve damage leading to muscle weakness (or even paralysis). It's called Guillain-Barré syndrome. Most people recover from this completely, but some will have permanent damage. I'm not a doc (yet) so Chris or someone could answer this a little more thoroughly.
I'd certainly mention the MS history, however.
Hope they can get you straightened out.
This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People
-
Thanks for the info cannadinoid, much appreciated and I'll make sure I mention the MS history. I'm surprised I managed to get an appointment so quickly, a bit over a week when I was expecting more like a couple of months.
By the way did you ever progress any further with the biophysical activity in relation to energy healing that you posted back i early November?
-
Nope, not much progress on that front right now. I've been corresponding with a few people regarding approaches I would like to take (John aka tweener being one of those people) but until I start graduate school, I won't have access to the kind of equipment I will need.
I've narrowed down the specifications of what I'll be doing though. First thing will be using various techniques to see if there are measureable electromagnetic changes in the bodies of practitioners when they are actively "channeling." Assuming I can find even minute energy emission, I'll then try and isolate a frequency or range of frequencies for that energy and then emit energy of that same wavelength into reaction vessels that simulate certain biochemical reactions that relate to healing. (imflammation response, white blood cell function, and the like)
There's no biophysics department at my current school, so it's on hold for another 18 months or so.
This message brought to you by The Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People
-
That would be cool research, and I think I remember seeing some Kirlian photography of people's hands when they were healing, and the energy field was fantastic.
I also remember reading somewhere that there were cases of MS precipitated by viral illness. Could be some relationship there. Worth checking out. But I don't think the agony in the joints fits the MS picture. I'd look into some of the autoimmune type stuff. Try to get ANA titers.
-
This is almost certainly NOT due to MS.
Firstly, a diagnosis of Multiple sclerosis is only made when there have been a series of demyelinating episodes separate in space and time. It does not present with peripheral muscular atrophy.
Muscles atrophy through disuse, primary muscle disease or injury to the lower motorneurones which supply them. MS is a CNS demyelinating disease and hence does not affect lower motorneurones. Hence muscles do not 'waste' although they may become hyperreflexic (exhaggerated reflexes), hypertonic (elevated tone) and spastic due to upper motorneurone demyelination.
Your presentation is very interesting. It sounds as though you are describing deltoid wasting (axiliary nerve supply). Peripheral demyelination can occur in the wake of an infection - guillain-barre syndrome is one example of a post-infectious radiculopathy associated with muscular weakness, but the pattern of affected muscles is grossly different. Classically it is a symmetrical and centripetal disease meaning that the longest axons (i.e. the legs) are effected first, moving centrally towards the body.
you might have a mononeuritis - are you diabetic ?
Any other symptoms at present ? No headache or face-ache or blurred visiion ?
Another consideration is frozen shoulder with secondary disuse atrophy.
Please let me know what happens
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
-
Hi Chris
Thanks for your response. I had my appointment with the neurologist yesterday and he is suggesting that I had a Brachial Viral infection. My dad looked it up a bit later and came up with the following...
Brachial Plexus Neuritis
A syndrome associated with inflammation of the BRACHIAL PLEXUS. Clinical
features include severe pain in the shoulder region which may be accompanied
by MUSCLE WEAKNESS and loss of sensation in the upper extremity. This
condition may be associated with VIRUS DISEASES; IMMUNIZATION; SURGERY;
heroin use ; and other conditions. The term brachial neuralgia generally
refers to pain associated with brachial plexus injury.
This all pretty much refers to what I have experienced. The neuro got me to have a blood test which I haven't received the results for yet, but from what I could decipher of his writing it was for a Thyroid function test, CAP LFTS (I thought maybe the lfts stood for liver function test?) and something else I couldn't read. My physio originally said it was the affected nerve was the infraspinatus (at least from memory I think that was the nerve and not the muscle) and the neurologist also mentioned this nerve. Which controls 2 muscles. When I got some exercises from him there were some I couldn't do properly, without using my shoulder blade or other muscle to compensate, but with others if I concentrated on not using my shoulder blade I could just do properly. When he felt around the area while I was trying this he found that I did have some, albeit very limited use of one of the muscles. While this in itself is encoraging the neurologist said I may not regain the use of these muscles and would only really know after about 2 years.
In terms of other symptons I'm not diabetic, haven't had headache, face ache or blurred vision. But now that I think of it I have had on the odd occasion I have had dancing spots on the edge of my vision recently. This tends to be after standing up or perhaps doing something strenuous involving the upper body.
I said I hadn't had any tingling down my arm but when I think of it there was once when I was pulling my shoulders back, I've always had poor posture, where my right arm did tingle a little and I experienced a slight ache down the back of the right side of my neck in the area where my physio indicated the nerve ran. Hard to remember everything sometimes especially when you're having question after question shot at you.
Wow quite a little essay I've written here. If I think of anything else in particular I'll let you know and fill you in on any progress. Thanks for your help.
Tim
Found it amusing when my physio said I'm a good one for unique injuries and this is the sort of this you would see once in a text book and never again so I should take a photo of it!
-
Tim,
Are you still having pain in the shoulder? I was of the impression that the pain left with the flu like illness, and you were just left with the residual weakness and antrophy.
-
Yeah that is pretty much right. I think the only reason it gets sore is if I'm doing too much with it like holding my arm in the air to show a doc something.
-
Tim, I was reading about a type of therapy (sorry, I can't remember the name) used to help stroke victims. If you lost the use of your left arm due to stroke they would immobilize your right arm for 6 hours a day. The theory is that your brain will develop new neural pathways to make your left arm start working again. It's not popular because the patient would need help for 6 hours each day, but apparently it has a very good success rate. Perhaps it would work for your muscles.
-
I would think that if you had brachial plexus neuritis, you'd still be haivng severe pain. With muscle atrophy, the only thing that will help is to exercise and rebuild the muscle. Weight training will probably help that along faster.
-
Hi again
Thinking about this whole thing I was curious as to whether anyone knew of treatments that can be done or things that can be taken that may help either stimulate nerves or aid in repairing damage. I've got my exercises to try and strength the muscle but was curious if anything can be done for the nerve itself.
Thanks
Tim
-
Hi Tim, you could try taking flax seed oil, a good B complex vitamin and lecithin (1200 mg/day).