Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 18:22:10

Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 18:22:10
Cosmogeological real map of Atlantis, six main rivers, two volcanoes, Pluto’s and Ammon’s (Mu) small islands and approximately places of smaller islands of Persephone. pre-flood coastal zone of North America and the magnetic field direction to the end of the last inter-global-flood period

Look at the image (the link) of Poseidon and his trident. What is the origin of the trident of Poseidon? The trident of Poseidon accompanies all of his images and sculptures. Why does Poseidon always appear with this trident?

In many languages of the ancients, the sign of trident designates the mountains. The trident symbolically represents three mountain (at the way to the Atlantis K.M.) tops towering above the sea (means an ocean sometimes K.M.).  These three mountain tops were seen from afar. When a ship approached Atlantis, three mountain tops appeared on the horizon as the trident of the potentate of the seas and of Atlantis. (In the middle way from Gibraltar to the Atlantis ships were moving between two islands until last global flood. from afar tops of the right island towering above the sea like a trident of the Poseidon ). It looked like the main island Poseidia (the island of Poseidon) and beside it, three mountain tops of two smaller islands  towered from the sea. The appearance of the three mountain tops on the horizon announced to the seafarers that they were arriving at the capital of Atlantis.

 

«The Egyptians described Atlantis as an island comprising mostly mountains in the northern portions (The map above proves same) and along the shore, and encompassing a great plain of an oblong shape in the south "extending in one direction three thousand stadia [about 555  km; 345 mi], but across the center inland it was two thousand stadia [about 370 km; 230 mi. The island was larger than Ancient Libya and Asia Minor combined, but it afterwards was sunk by an earthquake and became an impassable mud shoal, inhibiting travel to any part of the ocean». (the ancient description is almost true. You can see all main islands on the my map and exactly sizes we can understand after future expensive investigations only! Main is that we’ve knew almost exactly modern coordinates of ATLANTIS!!! K.M.)

Plato stated that the continent lay in the Atlantic Ocean near the Straits of Gibraltar until its destruction 9,000 years previous. His story began to unfold for him around 355 B.C. It means the catastrophe was happened approximately 9,355B.C. Of course Plato was near to the true date. Really it happened within 10,500÷10,428B.C.


Mod edit - Spammy link removed.  If you want to discuss something here, please post everything you need.  If you don't want to discuss it, don't post it.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 25/01/2009 18:52:07
Quote from: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 18:22:10

In many languages of the ancients, the sign of trident designates the mountains

Which languages would they be?

Quote
The Egyptians described Atlantis as an island comprising mostly mountains in the northern portions (The map above proves same)

The map on the page linked to proves only that you can draw a shape on a map of the Atlantic Ocean.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 19:21:26
Phoenician, Etruscan, languages!

The floor shape and other evidences can prove that. I'm working for a long time, this is topic of debates. the forum page is too small for that! please read more about Atlantis. You will understand everything!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 25/01/2009 19:47:21
Quote from: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 19:21:26
Phoenician, Etruscan, languages!

The floor shape and other evidences can prove that. I'm working for a long time, this is topic of debates. the forum page is too small for that! please read more about Atlantis. You will understand everything!
I've been looking at your work. You seem to have done lots of thinking on many different subjects but I didn't see anything that couldn't be broken down into short pieces for discussion.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Madidus_Scientia on 26/01/2009 05:29:11
Oh I see, the forum is too small so we have to pay $120 for a book that explains it.


Quote
You have never dreamed to buy

Something like this book

Sir Isaac Newton
Galileo Galilei, 
 Aristotel (Αριστοτέλης)
Giordano Bruno
Rene Descartes
Albert Einshtain
Plato...

There had never been something like this book

 on the table of the geniuses!

Yeah, none of these geniuses charged you money to hear their theory
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 15:09:43
Vern I've written about the book E-mail.
Everything will be OK!
Please send link of your site, and your CV + Foto.
Answer send by E-mail only.
Thank you!
Good luck!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 26/01/2009 15:22:12
Quote from: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 15:09:43
Vern I've written about the book E-mail.
Everything will be OK!
Please send link of your site, and your CV + Foto.
Answer send by E-mail only.
Thank you!

Good luck!
I received your email and replied; I don't have any secrets[:)] My website is here (http://photontheory.com/blogcms) [:)] My pix of the whole family is here (http://cabot-biz.com/pix/index.html)
Don't take the stuff at my web site too seriously. It is just speculation for my own understanding.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 16:52:26
Thank you for links!

Vern, can you show at the your computer decoded Atlantis!
For millenniums from "Khufu" ((2589-2566 BC) was the 4th Dynasty (2613-2498) pharaoh)almost 4500 years mankind was looking for Atlantis!
I can sand better program will own path. I don't like "stop zilla" of firefox!

Good luck!   
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 26/01/2009 17:03:29
My email reply to your email was returned with the notice "User Unknown".

My investigation into Plato's Atlantis story leaves me suspecting that it is a myth that Plato used to prop up his political ideas. It resembles other Greek stories that we are pretty sure were political myths.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 17:18:35
Plato was partially right!
there is wrong story about war between Athenians and Atlantians!
During platinum age of Atlantis in the Greece was stone age 12500 years ago
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 26/01/2009 17:22:33
Quote from: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 17:18:35
Plato was partially right!
there is wrong story about war between Athenians and Atlantians!
During platinum age of Atlantis in the Greece was stone age 12500 years ago
Are you getting that from Plato or is it some other work?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 17:57:47
I have studyed all ancient sources from America, Africa and Europe mainly!
  Why Plato had created fantastic fairy-tale about the war?
He thought that without the war his story would not be interesting in the Greece. Somewhere was sunken island… similar event within the Aegean Sea was not so rare event.   
Without his interesting fairy-tale about the war mankind could loss real story about Atlantis forever. I want to say Plato “thank you” after for millenniums!
Hieroglyphs of Atlantis; Each Hieroglyph is almost unlike others. Each of them means word and consists by interesting and difficult for us letters. I think The triangle means island or mountain. three triangles maybe mean  weapon or trident, etc. We are generation of simple fantastic epoch.

Natural treasure; image from "Main Temple" - Tulum ruins - Yucatan, Mexico

Of course The Atlantis civilization had own alphabet, it should be decoded in future! Of course paper was not discovered by this time and young generation of Atlantis were studying by stone "papers" in the transparent temples until the last pre-flood time. The image looks like a tale with beautiful pictures created for small children. Its survival is really fantastic event for millenniums. Maybe is copy of old source.



 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 26/01/2009 19:38:03
Quote from: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 19:21:26
Phoenician, Etruscan, languages!


Really? Can you show me anywhere that a trident appears in Etruscan scripts?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 26/01/2009 20:16:57
Doctor Beaver, before I answer you please tell me anything about the Hieroglyphs.
Tri-dent means three-mountains.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 26/01/2009 21:24:58
I thought it was you telling us about them. I've just asked you to provide an example of what you claim to be a fact.

Now, as I'm such a helpful chap, here's a fact for you: "trident" means "three toothed" or "three pronged" from the Latin "tridentem, tridens, tridentis" as any scholar of classical languages would be able to tell you. In Hindu mythology the God Shiva is often depicted with a trident (trishula in Hindi).
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 27/01/2009 08:54:42
Atlantis was first developed culture. Each early developed cultures had connection to the sages-missioners (spreaders of knowledge) from Atlantis (Egypt, Mesopotamia and Hindu-Sarasvati Civilization ). Do you think one of the hindues during the dream could see god with trident or name of Hunter’s constellation? Each early developed culture was at the greatest rivers. Sages from Atlantis could change live ability of the wild people from hunting to the agriculture within the pre-flood time.
Trident is symbol of Atlantis. Atlantis was marine power and their main god was Poseidia potentate of the seas and oceans as well as Atlantis. It became Poseidon in the Greece, Neptune for the Romans, trishula in Hindi, etc. I think tri-shula means three-teethed. Where did the –tri– come from? In the many languages it means -3-. Poseidia was difficult to understand for wild hunters "three-teethed" was much easier. We have conclusive evidences about sages of Atlantis: “Trishula”- is conclusive evidence about count, “hunter” - astronomy, etc. Sages of Atlantis became gods together the adapted other gods of the Atlantis. The god-sages were much welcome gods for primitive peoples by comparison to the other adapted gods of the Atlantis. Thus legend of the Erich Von Daniken - (Chariots of the Gods) is already exploded. The gods were not aliens from other galaxies and stellar systems. They were sages from the Atlantis!
If gad has trident it has symbol of Atlantis. And each of them is come from the Atlantis culture.
Ammon-Ra was not main god of Atlantis! Only smaller island was connected to his name to the north-west. Main island was sacred to the main god of the Atlantis Poseidia. Main god of marine power was god of seas and oceans of course!
There is written that “In many languages of the ancients, the sign of trident designates the mountains. The trident symbolically represents three mountains” For modern scientists unacceptable mountain, no problem; acceptable river delta, door, tooth, etc. Only mountains can towering above the sea and oceans. Had ancient phoenician a triangle door? Ancestors of Etruscans had studied  from Phoenicians connection of the alphabet to the things and legends and the "door" became teeth later.
Doctor Beaver you have questions about the "change" and forget about golden moneys. Are you frightened talking about?
I’m very sorry! You could not find other problems???

P.S. Other facts are on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean and that needs very expensive investigations!Main is that in this case we have knew almost exactly coordinates all ten islands and have proofs by ancient sages.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 28/01/2009 00:36:31
Now you're trying to be a politician and not answering my question. I ask again:=

Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 26/01/2009 19:38:03
Quote from: K.Margiani on 25/01/2009 19:21:26
Phoenician, Etruscan, languages!


Really? Can you show me anywhere that a trident appears in Etruscan scripts?

A man of your obvious knowledge will know that ancient Greek evolved from Indo-Aryan languages. It's pretty safe to say that trishula was in existence before Greek civilisation arose. Are you suggesting that the Atlantean missioners went straight past Greece, past the Middle East, and into the Hindu Kush?

As for Von Daniken, the man was totally discredited not just for his false theory but because he fabricated much of the "evidence" his theory was based on. If you want a sensible discussion, please leave charlatans out of it.

Quote
We have conclusive evidences about sages of Atlantis

Where is it?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 13:16:54
Thank you for suggests Doctor Beaver.
I have not enough money to traveling for fabricated much of the "evidences". Daniken has made a lot of money by his false. My evidences are all saved ancient sources. I’m looking for plausible facts in the ancient sources. Please remember Plato’s story. Knowledge in the geology and other fields help me to create logical framework for working. Please remember “trishula”. I had created conclusive evidence about teachers of counting and religion about gods. The “Hunter” helps me to create conclusive evidence about teaching of elementary astronomy, etc. Modern cult of persons has roots within the pre-flood time. Teacher became god!
For me unacceptable logically a triangle door but acceptable the “dent” or mountain. Phoenician had another letter like a half arc above without a peak. They were teachers of Etruscans ancestors.   Half circle-door is logically unacceptable as well. To record of difficult alphabet was necessary connection to the things and legends. Main spreader of The Atlantis knowledge for later cultures within Mediterranean Sea was Egypt. Legends were main intellectual “food” for our ancient ancestors. I’m still working. If I can not find the evidence I’ll say – “you win!”
You should be read more attentively Doctor Beaver; I’ve written “Atlantis was first developed culture. Each early developed culture had connection to the sages-missioners (spreaders of knowledge) from Atlantis (Egypt, Mesopotamia and Hindu-Sarasvati Civilization)”. Where are Greeks?
To form the agriculture colonies was politic of the Atlantis kingdoms. Reason of each early developed culture was great rivers, for development agricultures. Logically it connected to the food problems and rapid reproduction of the Atlantian people. It connected logically to the development of the medicine and laws, etc. There were not problems of dangerous carnivorous predators; life of young generation had not many problems. 64,000,000 people (Troano manuscript)at the boundary quite acceptable. It connected to the well developed cities, buildings, and infrastructures. A lot of skin-clothes were necessary. They were not naked wild people.
All over the Earth wild hunters had huge problems; carnivorous predators, epidemic disaster,
Fighting for hunting territories, etc; Wild man could kill his friend even for woman, power, food, etc.
  Osiris' family was head of first greatest mission. I want to call that "The Osiris mission". In the Egypt were discovered huge layers of the best limestone for the Atlantis buildings and temples. Each similar great mission needs security service, cooks, etc. Necessary constructors and builders of new life: Temples, houses and other human services as well as spreaders of knowledge (Sages) from Atlantis temples to teach: counting, religion and gods, lunar calendars, constellations and their names. (elementary astronomy), arts of medicine, etc. Osiris wrote the elementary laws in the ten sentences for primitive hunters and their generations (roots of Ten Commandments by Moses). The difficult history could save names of first teachers only. First temple was built in the Ancient capital of Egypt Zau (Sais), located in the western edge of the Nile Delta. Generation of primitive hunters could study sages of Atlantis there as well as generation of missioners and assimilated generation by inter-race weddings. Isis instituted marriage and taught women the domestic arts of corn-grinding, flax-spinning, and weaving.
In the Mesopotamia was mission of the Oannes. Maybe Oannes’ mantle or other clothes looked like a fish. For naked wild hunters and their generations for a long time that was incredible. Eventually Oannes became a fish-like god. The mission had same goal as well as in Egypt.
About the Sarasvati mission we have small information still. Maybe head of the mission was another person, but she is most known person and became goodness of knowledge and her name was sacred to the great river. Now Doctor Beaver, I think you know that what her mission could teach for primitive people? The goal was same, development of agricultures and partially send the crop to the Atlantis!
These three missions were three main independent centers to spread knowledge of Atlantis. There are roots all later cultures which was developed within surrounded places.
Thus without sages that was impossible!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 28/01/2009 15:15:14
Quote
You should be read more attentively Doctor Beaver; I’ve written “Atlantis was first developed culture. Each early developed culture had connection to the sages-missioners (spreaders of knowledge) from Atlantis (Egypt, Mesopotamia and Hindu-Sarasvati Civilization)”. Where are Greeks?

Precisely. Where are they in your theory?

You keep using the word "evidence" but so far I haven't seen you produce any. Everything you've written is mere speculation without it.

As for the rest of you latest post, I'm sorry but i have trouble interpreting exactly what you mean. I'll read it again later when I have more time and I will probably have more comments to make then.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 19:21:40
The Greeks are on the next (third) stage of the "pyramid"!

Thus first stage has ATLANTIS!
Second stage: Egypt, Mesopotamia and Hindu-Sarasvati.
Third stage: Canaanian, Phoenician, Minoan, Trojan(Wilusa), Mycenaean and other kingdoms of Greeks, Philistinian, Hebrews, Etruscian,  Hittitian, Georgian-Iberian, etc.
    Great mixing of peoples after a lot of wars was main reason of formation modern nations.
I don’t have time to study Chinas and surrounded east peoples history now and can’t ready to answer about their stages as well as looking for roots of Atlantis there.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 28/01/2009 19:29:44
Quote
Thus first stage has ATLANTIS!
Second stage: Egypt, Mesopotamia and Hindu-Sarasvati.
Third stage: Canaanian, Phoenician, Minoan, Trojan(Wilusa), Mycenaean and other kingdoms of Greeks, Philistinian, Hebrews, Etruscian,  Hittitian, Georgian-Iberian, etc.

Hindu-Sarasvati came before Egypt & Mesopotamia. So why did the Atlantean missioners go right past Greece, Egypt, Mesopotamia etc? That seems a bit silly to me.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 20:01:53
Evolution of these three agriculture colonies  began approximately from 16,000 B.C.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 20:04:13
Proof about sunken Atlantis!
The translated Maya manuscript which is part of the famous collection of Le Plongeon, the Troano manuscript. It can be seen in the British Museum. It reads: "In the year of 6 Kan, on the 11 Muluc, in the Month Zac, there ocurred terrific earthquakes which continued without interruption until the 13 Chuen. The country of the hills of mud, the Land of Mu, was sacrificed. Being twice up heaved it disappeared during the night, being continually shaken by the fires of the under earth. Being confined these caused the land to sink and rise several times and in various places. At last the surface gave way, and then ten countries were torn asunder and scattered. They sank with their 64,000,000 of inhabitants 8,060 years before the writing of this book."
From 11 muluc to 13 Chuen means for three days; Geological real explanation is that global oscillation of the crust during 3 days and nights above igneous waves of asthenosphere, could fully change isostatic balance between main platforms, small plates and slabs. Different lithosphere plate of island has different amplitude of oscillation Being twice up heaved it disappeared during the night, being continually shaken by the (huge pressure of igneous asthenosphere)fires . Atlantis and other islands were sunken into the ocean with their 64,000,000 inhabitants 8,060 years before the writing of this book.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 28/01/2009 20:21:19
Mu was supposed to be in the Pacific Ocean. I thought you would know that.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 21:08:59
One of the ancient saved letters is proof. there is written about sunken pacific island.
Troano manuscript was written after for many millenniums from the catastrophe. island of Ammon-ra was nearest island. That situated to the platform of Northern America. after for millenniums Ammon-ra became "mu". another explanation is impossible. Language and memory was changed for 8,060 years!!!
During last post-flood period was many local changes of isostatic balance especially within the oceans' floors. That connected to the uplift end submerging of small islands as well!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 28/01/2009 21:15:50
So how does a story about an island in the Pacific prove the existence of an island in the Atlantic?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 21:27:59
In the document is nit written an Ocean! There is written about sunken "pacific island".
"pacific island"; For example; within the Aegean Sea was Pacific island destroyed by volcano eruption. It does not mean "Pacific Ocean". 
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 28/01/2009 21:42:53
I shall accept that - for now.

Now, 64 million people is quite a lot for that long ago isn't it?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 21:56:24
I think quit enough for 12500 years evolution on the isolated island.
It connected logically to the development of the medicine and laws, etc. There were not problems of dangerous carnivorous predators; life of young generation had not many problems. 64,000,000 people at the boundary quite acceptable.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 22:16:28
There are supporting evidences and conclusive evidences and proofs. Each proof and evidence needs very many time and money. Conclusive evidences are intellectual analysis a lot of threads. Geo-forces are criminal forces, I’m investigating tracks and traces of criminal forces, conclusion evidences are necessary. Geo-force of EB geo-transfer (Rapid or slowly movement fiery liquid masses from outer nucleus into asthenosphere) is wild criminal force which is explained in the the Troano manuscript.  That almost exactly explains global geological catastrophe produced by inner criminal geo-forces.
     Like a criminal detective’s work, I’m investigating events formed by huge criminal forces, for logical framework the Troano manuscript is brilliant. That gives many threads to understand everything!

Quite possible the Atlantis for Indian was land of "MU" None knows still! 
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 22:39:46
Now is midnight here! we will continue later!
good luck!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 29/01/2009 03:29:49
Quote from: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 22:16:28
Conclusive evidences are intellectual analysis a lot of threads.

As this is a science forum, I expect conclusive evidence to be actual observation, results from experiments or other empirical evidence. "Intellectual analysis" is not scientific evidence, it is theory. That is why Einstein's idea of relativity is called the Theory of Relativity.

Quote from: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 22:16:28

Geo-forces are criminal forces,

Geo-forces are natural forces, not criminal forces.

Quote from: K.Margiani on 28/01/2009 22:16:28

Quite possible the Atlantis for Indian was land of "MU" None knows still! 


This is the logical problem with your argument: ... the Atlantis for Indian was land of "MU" None knows still! 

NO ONE Knows - not even you. Thus, you have no proof, just a theory.

When you can post serious empirically derived evidence, I may consider your theory.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 08:44:07
I don't have any interest what you think about the ATLANTIS!

ATLANTIS is not myth or theory. ATLANTIS IS TRUTH!

I HAVE A LOT OF PROOF ON THE FLOOR OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN!

INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PROOFS ARE ALREADY DISCOVERED THERE!

SO, ATLANTIS IS TRUTH!  I CAN'T UNDERSTAND!!! ))) WHAT??? ))) THEORY??? ))))
 

  [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 09:14:15


QUOTE: Geo-forces are natural forces, not criminal forces.


Sumatra-Andaman event killed 225,000± people and is greatest proof that natural forces are greatest criminal forces!!! I'm very sorry sir!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: BenV on 29/01/2009 11:35:44
I think 'criminal' implies intent.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 12:56:27
Quote from: BenV on 29/01/2009 11:35:44
I think 'criminal' implies intent.

Like this thread?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: dentstudent on 29/01/2009 13:29:42
Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 08:44:07

SO, ATLANTIS IS TRUTH!  I CAN'T UNDERSTAND!!! ))) WHAT??? ))) THEORY??? ))))


"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure
sign of a diseased mind." Terry Pratchett
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: BenV on 29/01/2009 14:09:36
Sir Terry Pratchett...
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: dentstudent on 29/01/2009 14:20:04
Quote from: BenV on 29/01/2009 14:09:36
Sir Terry Pratchett...

Was he honoured? I didn't see...
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 15:13:25
Quote from: dentstudent on 29/01/2009 14:20:04
Quote from: BenV on 29/01/2009 14:09:36
Sir Terry Pratchett...

Was he honoured? I didn't see...

He was awarded an OBE in 1998
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: dentstudent on 29/01/2009 15:30:02
He was knighted in the 2009 honours list too, it seems.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 29/01/2009 15:46:15
Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 09:14:15


QUOTE: Geo-forces are natural forces, not criminal forces.


Sumatra-Andaman event killed 225,000± people and is greatest proof that natural forces are greatest criminal forces!!! I'm very sorry sir!

No you are not sorry - when confronted with the reality of the natural world you protest, protest, protest.

That isn't rational for a human being - who evolved in and, is a product of, that same natural world.

Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 08:44:07
I don't have any interest what you think about the ATLANTIS!

That is very non-productive in a DISCUSSION FORUM such as this one. Did you post this topic to discuss your theory or just preach to us about it?

Quote

ATLANTIS is not myth or theory. ATLANTIS IS TRUTH!

I HAVE A LOT OF PROOF ON THE FLOOR OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN!

INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF PROOFS ARE ALREADY DISCOVERED THERE!

SO, ATLANTIS IS TRUTH!  I CAN'T UNDERSTAND!!! ))) WHAT??? ))) THEORY??? ))))
 


All scientific evidence - i.e., rocks direct observations, magnetic readings, gravity anomaly readings, etc. - show NO difference in the sea floor where you have drawn in "Atlantis" than in any other place along the mid-Atlantic spreading zone. If there were scientific evidence I would be the first one to back you - but you have presented no such evidence!

So, to show how false and non-scientific what I have seen so far, I am going to pose the following:

MY TRUTH!

Georgia is part of the Iran. As it was once part of the Persian Empire, it is properly part of Iran. To quote you,  

Iran IS TRUTH!  I CAN'T UNDERSTAND!!! ))) WHAT??? ))) THEORY??? ))))

And Sir Terry Pratchett is the Shah of Iran. (Another TRUTH!!!)
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 16:21:05
Now my friends we have to turn at the much more interesting topic!
First my question is that. What is that?
“15,000B.C. highly cultured race in Ontario Canada!”
–in the logical framework, of course! Looks like a hunting colony of Atlantians for processing skins of wild animals for clothes. Atlantians had rapid reproduction.
If someone knows anything please help me.
Please send links or information.
Thank you!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 17:12:11
Quote
“15,000B.C. highly cultured race in Ontario Canada!”

If they were so smart, why did they go to Canada?  [:P]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 29/01/2009 17:39:10
Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 16:21:05
Now my friends we have to turn at the much more interesting topic!
First my question is that. What is that?
“15,000B.C. highly cultured race in Ontario Canada!”
–in the logical framework, of course! Looks like a hunting colony of Atlantians for processing skins of wild animals for clothes. Atlantians had rapid reproduction.
If someone knows anything please help me.
Please send links or information.
Thank you!


If it you can't have it your way - change the subject!

To Echo Doctor Beaver -

Yes - WHY CANADA? That is NOT a smart move as 17,000 years ago unless you like ice.

"During the most recent North American glaciation, during the latter part of the Wisconsin Stage (26,000 to 13,300 years ago), ice sheets extended to about 45 degrees north latitude. These sheets were 3 to 4 km thick." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_ages

The southern edge of the ice sheets is marked by the Great Lakes of North America and the Saint Lawrence River - sorry, but Ontario was under 2-4 Km of ice until 13,300 years ago when the ice STARTED to retreat. Full retreat to present location has been very gradual and is still occurring.

Must have been hard trying to find anything alive to skin 15,000 years ago. And that is really DUMB. Quite un-Atlantian.

Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 17:47:27
Doctor Beaver I don't know still, what is this, who discovered? what is discovered there!
food and clothes were necessary of course. on the isolated island hunting was possible at zoo only. 

1. the giant short-faced bear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ArctodusSimusReconstruct.jpg
I think it had excellent skin!

2. Mammoth had best thickest skin! etc.

Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 29/01/2009 18:10:36
Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 17:47:27
Doctor Beaver I don't know still, what is this, who discovered? what is discovered there!
food and clothes were necessary of course. on the isolated island hunting was possible at zoo only. 

1. the giant short-faced bear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ArctodusSimusReconstruct.jpg
I think it had excellent skin!

2. Mammoth had best thickest skin! etc.



Why do you wish to avoid any discourse with me as I am presenting a serious discussion? Do you ignore people as you please and Address only Doctor Beaver, who is somewhat more gullible?
_______________

You are ignoring the fact that when you say Atlantians were hunting in Canada 15,000 years ago, the ice was several kilometers thick and NOTHING lived on it. It was exactly as the interior of Antartica is today.

Do facts mean anything to you?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Madidus_Scientia on 29/01/2009 18:15:07
I've often wondered, how much evidence of delusion do you need from a person to have them carted off to an asylum?
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 18:46:14
JIM!
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2003/2002PA000769.shtml

GLAMAP 2000 presents new reconstructions of the Atlantic's sea surface temperatures (SST) at the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), defined at both 21,500–18,000 years B.P. (“Last Isotope Maximum”) and 23,000–19,000 years B.P. (maximum glacial sea level low stand and orbital minimum of solar insolation;

New results mean that within Ontario was possible HUNTING 15,000 BP.!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 19:00:20
Jim!
Quote: Canada 15,000 years ago, the ice was several kilometers thick and NOTHING lived on it. It was exactly as the interior of Antartica is today.

That happened 23,000–18,000 years B.P. several kilometers thick sheet could create huge evaporation of water from warm and hot seas and oceans. that could produce huge fissure outflow from asthenosphere through the mid-ocean ridges mainly!

Conclusive evidence about global geo-catastrophe 23,000 BP! 
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 19:42:55
Quote from: JimBob on 29/01/2009 18:10:36

Why do you wish to avoid any discourse with me as I am presenting a serious discussion? Do you ignore people as you please and Address only Doctor Beaver, who is somewhat more gullible?


Gullible, am I? I have been studying mythology, ancient civilisations and ancient languages for the past 20 years so am interested to read such amusing theories. I am merely entering into a discourse to establish exactly what proof Mr Margiani has to support his seemingly grundless assertions.

I have already ascertained that his knowledge of Etruscan & Phonecian scripts is non-existent. Now I await evidence to support the claim that Atlantis had 64,000,000 inhabitants at a time when the populaton of the whole of Europe was a mere 400,000. I am not hopeful that any will be forthcoming.

Jim - your comments on the geology of the Atlantic floor are welcome. That is a field I know nothing of. Come to think of it, Texas is almost Central America so you must know some Mayan myths  [:P]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 29/01/2009 23:13:43
Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 19:00:20
Jim!
Quote: Canada 15,000 years ago, the ice was several kilometers thick and NOTHING lived on it. It was exactly as the interior of Antartica is today.

That happened 23,000–18,000 years B.P. several kilometers thick sheet could create huge evaporation of water from warm and hot seas and oceans. that could produce huge fissure outflow from asthenosphere through the mid-ocean ridges mainly!

Conclusive evidence about global geo-catastrophe 23,000 BP! 

Quote from: K.Margiani on 29/01/2009 18:46:14
JIM!
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2003/2002PA000769.shtml

GLAMAP 2000 presents new reconstructions of the Atlantic's sea surface temperatures (SST) at the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), defined at both 21,500–18,000 years B.P. (“Last Isotope Maximum”) and 23,000–19,000 years B.P. (maximum glacial sea level low stand and orbital minimum of solar insolation;

New results mean that within Ontario was possible HUNTING 15,000 BP.!

This is not new - "Published 3 May 2003."  It is included in my comment - Yes, the global max was about 18,000 years ago. The maximum WAS a southern extent of the ice to beyond the present location of the Ohio and Missouri Rivers. As the ice retreated from 18,000 to 13,000 years ago it had a "still-stand" or a period when no retreat was happening at about 13,000 years ago. The ice did not retreat any further north than the St. Lawrence and Great Lakes until abut 11,000 years ago.

See http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercNORTHAMERICA.html - OH my it is older than 2003 but the data has STILL not been refuted. It has been reinforced.

LASTLY -
The assertion that the seas were responsible for outflow from the asthenosphere is ludicrous - firstly, because the insulating properties of the ocean floor, secondly and most importantly, Issac Newton.

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_cooling#Newton.27s_law_of_cooling

A system cools from the hottest part to the coolest. The vacuum and coolness of space allows ONLY for heat flow to occur from the core of the earth outward. It cannot occur the other way around as proven by Issac Newton.

My, my, my - I learned that 5 years before I went to university at 18 years old. I am sorry you missed this law in school.


Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 29/01/2009 23:15:34
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 19:42:55
Gullible, am I?

This needs no comment. The facts speak for themselves.  [;D] [:I] [;D]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 23:21:40
Quote from: JimBob on 29/01/2009 23:15:34
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 19:42:55
Gullible, am I?

This needs no comment. The facts speak for themselves.  [;D] [:I] [;D]

You dare to denegrate this polymath? Get back to your bullocks!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 30/01/2009 00:04:43
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 23:21:40
Quote from: JimBob on 29/01/2009 23:15:34
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 29/01/2009 19:42:55
Gullible, am I?

This needs no comment. The facts speak for themselves.  [;D] [:I] [;D]

You dare to denegrate this polymath? Get back to your bullocks!

What did you expect me to do, roll over on the floor, begging for attention or lick your ear, then leaving a present in you slippers when you go to bed?

P-lease!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 08:54:10
There are written about low level of oceans during glaciations everywhere. I could not drink that!
For last millenniums the level was almost stable. That was connected to the stable temperature changes in the water basins.
Last two glaciations were started after global geo-catastrophes 25000± and 12,500± years ago.
The greatest and thickest sheets could create rapid evaporation from seas and oceans only. Rapid evaporation is reason of intensive snowfalls within polar zones and rainfalls in other zones.

It means something changes balance after the global geo-catastrophes. Clue is surrounded territories of the mid–ocean ridges and their reversal magnetism. Each huge long reversal zone along the ridges is connected to the different huge outflow during the events.
http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/dynamic/developing.html
You can see that huge magma outflow lines are above the plates.
Reversal of the global magnetic field is rapid event (Few days maximum) on the geological timescale and closely connected to the global geo-catastrophes.
P.S. For logical framework and knowledge historical source is important. There is hidden greatest secret as well. For 3 days EB geo-transfer had created not only huge outflow-zones along the ridges.  EB geo-transfer created circulation into outer nucleus. Circulation of huge igneous liquid masses within E geo-sphere had created independent rotation of huge inner metallic and magnetic nucleus for (3) days. 
Unfortunately the ATLANTIS situated along the temporary  uplifted ridge approximately 25,000 years ago!
I'm very sorry!

[ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LoneStar77 on 30/01/2009 09:39:56
Wow! I see the discussion has become downright spicy. [:-[]

How about a different take on the subject? I've studied the subject for fifty years and it keeps getting better.

I certainly wish K.Margiani had greater command of English, but I can understand. My wife uses English as a second language, and well... sometimes I have to get her to tell me several times and in different ways before I understand her point. Whew! K.Margiani's arguments are, by and large, not well-founded in demonstrable fact. And I agree with the earlier comment about the map. An interesting piece of art without evidence to back it up.

Atlantis! Certainly we don't have direct proof of it, yet. But consider this indirect evidence that suggests its possible past existence:


Each of these may be related to Plato's story. Naturally, each has many possible interpretations and there needs to be corroborative evidence to back up a link to the mythical island empire. The 2-meter drop in sea level worldwide is particularly interesting, but not a proven proxy for an actual event. It sorely needs corroboration from other sources. See http://www.ancientsuns.com/ancient-earth/atlantis.php (http://www.ancientsuns.com/ancient-earth/atlantis.php) for more information. What makes it particularly interesting is the fact that two meters is consistent with the 3000-meter tectonic collapse of a Texas-size plot of land somewhere in the oceans of Earth. North Atlantic? There's the rub. We need more evidence.

Carl Martin
www.MissionAtlantis.com (http://www.MissionAtlantis.com)
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 11:13:18
The Swedes reported in New Scientist 6/1/1972, p.7, that "a reversal of the Earth's magnetic field had occurred 12, 400 years ago" which gives 10,428 BC. ± (±75 years is acceptable) Plato’s date is near to the truth!

The ruins of temples dated at 12,000 years old have been found near Bimini, Bahamas. Megalithic structures are not supposed to be in the Bahamas.
http://www.lost-civilizations.net/possible-physical-evidence-atlantis-page-2.html
Preliminary analysis has revealed that the original structures, although smaller in size than the Great Pyramid of Giza, appear to have been more advanced.
Casing stones have been measured which are of the same unique angle as those at the Great Pyramid.
The ruins are megalithic and bear a remarkable resemblance to ancient sites in Egypt. So called "quarry marks" found in the Aswan quarries and also on the Great Pyramid, itself, appear to be identical matches with those found on the Bimini temple stones.
One major difference, however, between the Egyptian sites and these stones is that on The Bimini stones you find a great number of sky maps which have recorded the paths of various heavenly bodies. The major concern of the mysterious ancient civilization that produced these heavenly maps seems to have been Saturn and Jupiter - with the oldest records reflecting an emphasis in Saturn.
Some of the stones are under water and some of them are under the sand under water. They are not in their original formation.

My comment:
 1. Looks like a king’s holiday place at the last boundary. King of marine power had journey place at the Bimini: Now is sunken and have been found near Bimini, Bahamas. There should be other remains of pre-flood constructions of the marine kingdom as well.
 2. This is proof: these islands were much wider at the boundary.

I will publish other evidences for my friends! 
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 12:00:12
My main proof is Athanasius Kircher’s map.
 http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--14434030/sp--A/igid--1738590/Map_of_Atlantis_Showing_Position_Relative_to_Europe_Africa_and_America.htm?sOrig=CAT&sOrigID=0&ui=BCBBEC4A6C754B47B915A5497E9F818D

Athanasius Kircher’s map 1669. Kircher was a Jesuit German priest, who lived between 1602-1680. He published “Mundus Subterraneus”, a book containing a map of Atlantis according to ancient Egyptian maps.  The original map was taken from Egypt by the Romans, probably around 30 AD.
 Ancient Egyptian source describes all details of my map! Mountains, valleys, two small and seven smaller islands, exactly coordinates two main volcanoes, Six main rivers, Path between two islands (trident of Poseidia) from Gibraltar  two the capital of Atlantis!

I respect your knowledge my opponents. My knowledge has another level and sources. You did not respect it!

I’m spending almost whole my life and money for mankind.
I want to say that soon 50% (as a minimum) of the mankind will die immediately. When will happen That?... Maybe tomorrow… or after 100 years… I don’t know… sorry… Geological evolution has own laws!

P.S. To study that in the Cambridge or Oxford impossible!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 12:23:58
Carl Martin Now you have Exclusive right to publish my Atlantis map in your site!

Please explain for your readers all my proofs and evidences; by modern English of course! [:-\]

I'll continue publication other evidences!

Thank you!
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 14:42:23
Can you see huge streaked terrain along the mid ocean ridge above thin lithosphere plates, after huge fissure-outflows at the boundaries?
Clue for huge violent evaporation and global changing the water levels.
A lot of arcs along the streaked terrain are greatest proof of the fissure-outflows! 
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 15:53:02
We have greatest proof now! The Bahamas islands were much wider at the boundary and were important part of the marine power ATLANTIS!
1975; Twenty researchers, including archaeologists, a marine biologist, geologist,
and cartographer dove onto ruins on the sea floor off Bimini in 1975 and
brought back artifacts from which they concluded that the walls and roads
were made of materials not found in that part of the world.
1977; report of a huge pyramid found off Cay Sal in the Bahamas, photographed
by Ari Marshall's expedition, about 150 feet underwater. The pyramid was
about 650 feet high. Mysteriously, the surrounding water was lit by
sparkling white water flowing out of the openings in the pyramid and
surrounded by green water, instead of the black water everywhere else at
that depth.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LoneStar77 on 30/01/2009 15:53:54
Quote
Carl Martin Now you have Exclusive right to publish my Atlantis map in your site!

Okay, I thank you for the honor, but I'm afraid I'll have to decline. The proof of which you speak may be clear to you in Georgian, and I have great respect for that, but it is losing almost everything in translation to English.  Even I do not understand most of what you said. The little I do understand does not sound like proof and I demand much more of myself on such things. I don't think our fellow posters are disrespecting your knowledge. Perhaps it is better to say that they demand a higher level of proof, as do I. Each point you make should be made clearly and thoroughly, citing references for each claim. This could help your presentation to others. I looked over your website and found it largely unintelligible. That may hurt, but if you seek truth, you have to be self aware and know when you need to improve something. Take it from a professional writer, award-winning essayist and scientist -- it needs a great deal of improvement. Look over a site like Wikipedia. There you have anyone and everyone contributing, but the rules require references, proper citations and the like. Some articles are better than others, but those that are found lacking are flagged as such.

Your map appears to be a copy of Kircher's. I'm not certain I feel comfortable accepting it as a real map of Atlantis, if the place really existed.

Geologically, the map doesn't fit the tectonics of the region -- the plate boundaries, the current movements of the plates and my interpretation of what those movements might have been prior to such a formation. I'm not saying that Kircher's drawing is a fake or a fiction. I will say that it is a vast stretch to accept it as valid.

On the subject of your native land, I think Georgia is equally fascinating. In my own research, I have found that it may be related to the children of Atlantis. The myth of Jason and the Argonauts and Princess Medea have captivated my imagination and curiosity. The myth talks of a dragon protecting the golden fleece. What if dragons were not real, living and breathing flying snakes, but mechanical flying craft? Sounds pretty far-fetched, I know. But examine the legends of dragons, especially the Greek and Egyptian. Also the story of the founding of Athens by Cecrops who was supposed to be half man, half snake is a possible clue. Could Cecrops merely have been the captain of the airship poking his head out of the top hatch to address his men? Could the warriors who sprang from the ground when Cadmus sowed the teeth of the golden dragon have been passengers of the dragon ship? When the golden dragon then floated silently away into the air, that makes me think it was either lighter-than-air craft or some kind of anti-gravity or warp drive. Consider the story of Medea after she was forced to leave her second husband, the king of Athens. She apparently flew away on a golden dragon. Was this the same dragon that was guarding the golden fleece? Could it be that Medea gained entre into the royal court of Athens because she flew into town in the dragon ship? Okay, far fetched, yes!

On the subject of myth, one researcher (on an A&E video on Atlantis) has said that Plato's story was clearly a fiction because there were no other versions of the Atlantis myth as there were for the other pantheon myths of Greece. There are two fallacies here. One is the researcher's assumption that the Atlantis story was like other Greek myths. The story of Atlantis had not been around like the other myths. It had only been a local dinner tale to the family, friends and descendants of Solon (the Greek statesman who heard the tale in Egypt c.600 BCE). Of course there weren't other versions... or were there? The other fallacy, is that another version of the story has to mention Atlantis by name and include all of Solon's details.

Consider this comparison:

and:


Could the titan, Metis, be matriarchal Atlantis in its final days. Could Athena be the matriarchal refugees who fled the capital (head) city with the full maturity of a civilized people, unlike the primitive hunter-gatherers who were their neighbors in Eurasia?

While far from proof of anything, the comparison is more than a little interesting.

The Basques, the Georgians, some, if not all, Native Americans, the Suomi (Finns), the Hungarians, Etruscans, Sumerians, Dravidians, Mon-Khmer and the Turks all speak agglutinative languages. That, by itself, doesn't mean much. But comparing what may be the most sentimentally favorite words from each language does raise some interesting suspicions of a linguistic connection of some kind. What are these sentimental favorites? Mother and father, of course. The Basque and Etruscan words for mother and father are a near perfect match, except that the gender is reversed. Basque for mother is a lot like Etruscan for father, and vice-versa. Could it be that children of matriarchal Atlantis eventually switched to a patriarchal or more egalitarian form of society?

The Greeks and Romans despised the Etruscans because they gave their women so much power. What arrogance! Could it just as easily have been that the women gave the men power? If we look into the Etruscan pantheon, we find that there are a god and goddess that have names that are near equivalent to the Basque words for mother and father -- not gender swapped! Could it be that in ancient times, between the time of the god and goddess and historical Etruscans, the word for "mother" stayed with the task rather than the gender? Then men would have become the new "mothers," or "rulers." If my transliteration of Georgian is at all accurate, it appears that the Georgian word for father is "mama," while the Georgian word for mother is "deda."

While far from proof of a link to Atlantis, this, plus the mythical elements from Colchis (ancient Georgia), and other biological evidence, tend to suggest a possible link.

A little more of my thoughts on these subjects might be found at http://blog.AncientSuns.com (http://blog.AncientSuns.com) and http://www.EdgeOfRemembrance.com (http://www.EdgeOfRemembrance.com).

I suggest, my Georgian friend, that you temper your enthusiasm for your subjects with restraint. Your proof may be strong in your own mind, but it remains very weak in translation. You really need to work on that part before others can give you the acknowledgment you seek. That's a lot of work, I know, but that is the mountain in your path. Hope this helps.

Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 30/01/2009 17:25:03
Thank you Carl Martin. Please use that Titans in the myths mean people from ATLANTIS. Very many gods were grew up there (among TITANS)!
I have written that first stage during the modern mankind evolution had only ATLANTIS!
Proof:
Modern Azores Islands were peaks of the  mountain ridges in the center of Atlantis kingdom! At the Azores Islands A huge pyramid, in 10,000 feet of Atlantic water, was reported to have been found with a pulsating crystal on top of it, by Tony Benik's expedition. The group also found an opaque crystal tablet there, and reported that when a light was beamed through it, mysterious inscriptions (Hieroglyphs of Atlantis K.M.) became visible.

My comment: Everything was discovered within pre-flood terrain of main island (Poseidia) shown on the decoded map. Azores Islands are in the center of the decoded map!

I’m very tired and  have to cease my publication temporary!
If someone will publish interesting article for me I will answer by E-mail. kmargini@yahoo.com

ATLANTIS is DECODED!!!
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: lyner on 30/01/2009 19:42:35
What a load of ......



Is this supposed to be a Science forum?

Tolkein does this sort of thing so much better.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: JimBob on 30/01/2009 23:48:23
I agree. Getting people who know nothing about geology, let alone people who disregard the scientific process - observe, experiment, verify THEN hypothesize - belong in a forum for people who would rather decline the scientific community. They are certainly NOT going to convert any scientifically-minded people.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LoneStar77 on 31/01/2009 05:03:27
Quote from: sophiecentaur on 30/01/2009 19:42:35
What a load of ......
Is this supposed to be a Science forum?
Tolkein does this sort of thing so much better.

Ad hominem is not very scientific. Your blanket statement is also very non-specific. If you're referring to K.Margiani, I have to say he has a long way to go with his scientific acumen. His use of generalities and absolutes is also non-scientific, like yours. Is your statement from frustration or impatience with his poor scientific acumen? I don't blame you. But perhaps a generous spirit would help. If he's lacking something, help him find it. He does have a touch of arrogance that blocks his acceptance of criticism. I hope he gets over it, otherwise he won't learn.

If you're referring to my input as well, I would ask for at least one specific.

One thing that is not stated in the "manual on being a scientist" (if such a thing existed) is that there are two types of skepticism. The restraint-based type is constructive. It helps to keep a scientist from jumping to a conclusion too early. K.Margiani needs a great deal of work on this. The self-indulgent kind of skepticism has a lot in common with the illogics -- ad hominem, non-sequitur, and the like. They are a lazy attitude and frequently not at all constructive.

Quote from: JimBob on 30/01/2009 23:48:23
I agree. Getting people who know nothing about geology, let alone people who disregard the scientific process - observe, experiment, verify THEN hypothesize - belong in a forum for people who would rather decline the scientific community. They are certainly NOT going to convert any scientifically-minded people.

I love science, too, JimBob. But your statement is equally non-specific. Who are "people?" And you're taking a great leap by stating that those people "know nothing about geology." Such an absolute is not at all logical and not based on observable fact. Anyone who knows the difference between a rock and a tree, or between a mountain and a valley, knows at least something about geology. And who knows, "people" may know a little more than that.

I applaud DoctorBeaver's attempts to engage K.Margiani in conversation about his theories. He was demanding and patient with our Georgian friend, attempting to elicit some degree of logic. Your statement about him being "gullible" was not at all scientific and an inaccurate generality in light of some of the things DoctorBeaver said. Scientists can also be compassionate humans with respect for one another and respect for non-scientists, as well.

Sometimes scientists can learn something from an "outsider." For more on this subject of "outsiderness," check out my award-winning essay, "Outsiderness in the Scientific Community," at http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/rcm/other_writing.html (http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/rcm/other_writing.html). I once heard a story from an artist who once worked for NASA about one such incident. Scientists had been working on a solution for a universal docking mechanism. One of the scientists told his son about his work, and his young son asked, "Can't they use a funnel?" Bingo! Also, scientists can be surprisingly ignorant at times. The mini-series on Oppenheimer shows one such incident where scientists are debating ardently about the friction inside their device. After some time, they realize with much chagrin that their arguments were wasted. Wear and tear from friction is meaningless inside a nuclear bomb.

Okay, let's get down to science. If you're interested, let's talk about the merits or demerits of my observations from the literature -- scientific and otherwise. Perhaps Atlantis never existed. That's certainly possible, but some of the evidence I've gathered seems highly suggestive of its possible existence ... at least to me.

Carl Martin
www.AncientSuns.com (http://www.AncientSuns.com)
www.SpaceSoftware.net (http://www.SpaceSoftware.net)

Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 31/01/2009 14:55:13
I asked Mr Margiani to produce an example of a trident in Etruscan scripts, which he claims exists. In all my years studying ancient languages I have never seen such an example. If he can produce an example then I shall give at least that part of his theory more credence.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 31/01/2009 16:08:28
Here's another interesting point. During the era in which Atlantis was supposed to have existed it is estimated that you could feed 1.4 people per hectare of farmland. Multiplying that by the alleged 64 million inhabitants of Atlantis means you would need an area of farmland 8 times the size of France (roughly half the size of the U.S.A.). Judging by the map Mr Margiani has posted, Atlantis was nowhere near that size.

JimBob has already pointed out the geological inconsistencies and I can see other areas where Mr Margiani's claims do not fit with known facts.

I do not dismiss the possibility that Plato's Atlantis story is loosely based on fact; but I stress the word "loosely". One theory put forward is that all of Plato's figures should be divided by 10 - thus making Thera a good candidate. As Plato was writing about events that occured many centuries previous (and which had been recounted only orally) the possibility of exaggeration in the continual re-telling of the myth cannot be discounted.

You see, I like to work with facts or, at least, theories with a high degree of scientific validity. I have seen neither in any of Mr Margiani's post so far.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: lyner on 31/01/2009 19:20:17
LoneStar77
My "load of" reference was to the original premise, not your post(s). No offence intended, in fact. Yes it is frustrating to read arrogant statements which pose as containing some serious ideas. When I made my reply I was about to launch into a detailed riposte but realised it would be a waste of time.
I am not always such a grumpy old sod.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: lyner on 31/01/2009 19:35:34
Quote
Sometimes scientists can learn something from an "outsider." For more on this subject of "outsiderness," check out my award-winning essay, "Outsiderness in the Scientific Community," at http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/rcm/other_writing.html. I once heard a story from an artist who once worked for NASA about one such incident. Scientists had been working on a solution for a universal docking mechanism. One of the scientists told his son about his work, and his young son asked, "Can't they use a funnel?" Bingo! Also, scientists can be surprisingly ignorant at times. The mini-series on Oppenheimer shows one such incident where scientists are debating ardently about the friction inside their device. After some time, they realize with much chagrin that their arguments were wasted. Wear and tear from friction is meaningless inside a nuclear bomb.
I think there may be some confusion  in this paragraph between the words Scientist and Engineer. The man's son came up with an engineering solution, not a scientific truth.
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 01/02/2009 06:18:25
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 31/01/2009 16:08:28
Here's another interesting point. During the era in which Atlantis was supposed to have existed it is estimated that you could feed 1.4 people per hectare of farmland. Multiplying that by the alleged 64 million inhabitants of Atlantis means you would need an area of farmland 8 times the size of France (roughly half the size of the U.S.A.). Judging by the map Mr Margiani has posted, Atlantis was nowhere near that size.

Yes… this is impossible to study in the Oxford and Cambridge. Only my University has enough level to explain that!

In the middle of the last inter-flood period (16000 bp) the area in which Atlantis was existed became small for feeding and started process of agriculture-missions. Your claiming is very interesting to explain the three agriculture-missions in Egypt, Mesopotamia and India. 
Title: Re: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/02/2009 10:26:29
If there were any credibility left in this topic then I think that saying
"Yes… this is impossible to study in the Oxford and Cambridge. Only my University has enough level to explain that!"
lost it.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 01/02/2009 13:47:01
Quote
Yes… this is impossible to study in the Oxford and Cambridge

Who said anything about Oxford & Cambridge? 1.4 people per hectare is the figure accepted throughout the archaeological community after years of study by experts from around the world (experts are people who actually know what they are talking about). I just did some simple maths.

I think you need to look at your theories critically & check your "facts" against expert knowledge & opinion. You seem to be relying on conjecture and ideas that have very little basis in reality. Much of what you claim is either wrong or impossible. As things stand, you are just making yourself look silly and ill-informed.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 01/02/2009 14:40:15
1. I only said my university is good as well!
2. Without the agriculture-colonies from 16,000 B.C. the atlantian population could not be increased about 64,000,000 at the boundary 10,500 B.P.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LoneStar77 on 01/02/2009 15:01:21
Quote from: sophiecentaur on 31/01/2009 19:20:17
I am not always such a grumpy old sod.

SophieCentaur, I wouldn't know anything about being grumpy, but don't tell my wife; she'd say I'm a liar.  [;)]

Quote from: sophiecentaur on 31/01/2009 19:35:34
I think there may be some confusion  in this paragraph between the words Scientist and Engineer. The man's son came up with an engineering solution, not a scientific truth.

No confusion, just sloppiness on my part. The story about Oppenheimer was also an engineering concern. Thanks!  [:I]

Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 31/01/2009 16:08:28
One theory put forward is that all of Plato's figures should be divided by 10 - thus making Thera a good candidate. As Plato was writing about events that occured many centuries previous (and which had been recounted only orally) the possibility of exaggeration in the continual re-telling of the myth cannot be discounted.

You see, I like to work with facts or, at least, theories with a high degree of scientific validity. I have seen neither in any of Mr Margiani's post so far.

I agree on both counts.

About Atlantis, not only the factor of ten for size, but also for years (900 instead of 9000). I seem to remember another researcher pointing out that the word for "larger than" is very similar to "midway between" in Greek -- making Plato's Timaeus read "midway between" Libya (Africa) and Asia (Asia Minor), which would likewise place Atlantis in the vicinity of Thera.

That's a pretty clever piece of work, but for me it falls a bit short. If Plato had not mentioned southwestern Spain as being near Atlantis, Thera would likely have won the argument (whether or not it was indeed the real Atlantis [as always, if Atlantis really ever existed]). The reference to Gadira or Gadirus is pretty damning to the Thera angle, despite its cleverness. How much of Plato do we throw out and how much do we keep? That's a tough question, but the puzzle is not going to die easily.

When I first read Timaeus and Critias, I was turned off by the idea of a "mud filled ocean." That seemed pretty unreal. But then I got to thinking about what would result if a Texas-sized plot of land were to subside within hours, perhaps in fits and starts. At least one and perhaps several mega-tsunamis might have occurred ... any one of which might have been a kilometer or more high at landfall. Imagine the amount of topsoil stirred up by such an event. Mud filled ocean? Maybe not the thick, mucky kind I'm used to calling "mud," but perhaps watered down muddy ocean liquid.

Three events from science coincide with Plato's approximate date (~600 BCE for Solon + 9000 years = 9600 BCE). That's not saying much, but the types of events raised goosebumps on me.

The abrupt end to the Younger Dryas is not clearly understood, yet. Scientists have a pretty good idea what might have caused its equally abrupt start -- a freshwater glacial spill from the North American ice cap. This put a stopper in the Atlantic's thermohaline cycle -- Earth's temperature regulator. Earth was in another mini-Ice Age for 1300 years. Imagine one or more mega-tsunamis stirring up the water in the North Atlantic, perhaps breaking through the thermohaline cap. So, Atlantis is a possible explanation for the end to the Younger Dryas. And, again, the years are a veritable match -- 9620 BCE (plus or minus some error factor -- I think around 50 years or so).

Maybe we don't need the plus or minus. In the Greenland ice cores (GISP2) is a moderately large volcanic trace at about 9620 BCE (11,569.77 BP). Of course, that could have been a volcano any place on planet Earth, unless there was some kind of chemical signature that can be traced to a specific region. Still, the possibility exists that Plato's infamous lost island empire could be the culprit.  After all, the dates match, and such an event would seem to be consistent with a large-scale tectonic event such as a Texas-sized collapse.

Coinciding with these two events (and Plato's putative disaster) is a 2-meter drop in sea level worldwide (Nature, 7 Dec. 1989). Doesn't sound like much, but I did a little calculation based on surface area of oceans and major seas, and the possible sub-surface volume of Atlantis (using a body slightly larger than Texas). The result of such a subsidence would be about 2 meters in sea level drop worldwide. Very interesting, if I do say so myself.

So, my friends. We have proof, not of Atlantis, but that something very, very BIG happened the same year Atlantis was supposed to have gone under. Three points of evidence from different disciplines. I elaborate a bit more on these three data points in the background article for my most recent novel project, http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/eor/yd.html (http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/eor/yd.html).

Comments?  Criticisms?

And hey! I need some feedback on this stuff because I'm writing a book. Sometimes I'm full of it and need a reality check. So, have at it.

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
http://www.MissionAtlantis.com (http://www.MissionAtlantis.com)

Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 01/02/2009 15:13:35
Carl - you raise some interesting points. Unfortunately I know nothing about geology.

I shall digest the rest of what you wrote and regurgitate my musings on it later  [:D]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 01/02/2009 15:43:49
I could not be ever decoded Atlantis without knowledge of Geology. That was natural geological catastrophe and could be explained by geological laws only!
I’m going to write plausible book about the sunken kingdom!
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 01/02/2009 17:53:49
Quote from: K.Margiani on 01/02/2009 14:40:15
1. I only said my university is good as well!


Really? Let me remind you what you said earlier

Quote
Yes… this is impossible to study in the Oxford and Cambridge. Only my University has enough level to explain that!

Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/02/2009 19:12:07
Quote from: K.Margiani on 01/02/2009 15:43:49

I’m going to write plausible book about the sunken kingdom!
I suspect that many of us will not think it's plausible.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LeeE on 01/02/2009 19:26:41
Wow! four pages and this thread is still going - lol.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 01/02/2009 20:26:04
Quote from: LeeE on 01/02/2009 19:26:41
Wow! four pages and this thread is still going - lol.


If I were to address every fallacy that Mr Margiani has posted it would now be on page 8!
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: lyner on 01/02/2009 21:16:36
Do you think we'd get four pages out of Freddy Mercury ate my hamster?
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/02/2009 21:51:18
Shouldn't that be Freddy Star, or are you just banking on the fact that dead people can't sue for libel?
Freddy is (or at least claimed at the time to be) vegetarian.
It's not important; all the evidence says it's nonsense and there's practically nobody would ever have believed it.

The trouble is I'm not sure which story I'm describing; Atlantis or the Hamster.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: lyner on 01/02/2009 23:44:40
LOL
Never was good at names.
But either Freddy would serve.
Title: The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
Post by: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 12:58:20
The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
The Azores Triple Junction is a geologic triple junction where the boundaries of three tectonic plates intersect: the North American Plate, the Eurasian Plate and the African Plate. This triple junction is located along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge amidst the Azores islands, nearly due west of the Straits of Gibraltar. It is classed as a R-R-R triple junction, "T" type (for its shape), as it is an intersection of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge running north-south and the Terceira Rift which runs east-southeast.
The Azores-Gibraltar Transform Fault, also called the Azores-Gibraltar fault zone (AGFZ), is a major geologic fault which runs eastward from the eastern end of the Terceira Rift in the Azores, extending through the Strait of Gibraltar and into the Mediterranean Sea. It forms part of the tectonic boundary between the Eurasian Plate and the African Plate. The extension east of the Strait of Gibraltar is poorly understood and is currently regarded as a "diffuse" boundary. Somewhere in the vicinity of the Italian Peninsula, many geologists believe the fault connects with a subduction zone where the African Plate is slowly subducting beneath the Eurasian Plate.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]

The approximately coordinates of the central temple: Latitude: 37 N, Longitude: 24 W.
Title: The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
Post by: paul.fr on 09/02/2009 13:52:18
Is it possible to zoom in further, so we can see the cities?
Title: The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
Post by: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 14:13:50
Quote from: Paul. on 09/02/2009 13:52:18
Is it possible to zoom in further, so we can see the cities?
Through the Google; Latitude: 37:19 N, Longitude: 24:58 W.
If serious, there is treasure of the mankind!

I'm looking for that all my life!
Title: The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
Post by: dentstudent on 09/02/2009 14:17:48
Quote from: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 14:13:50
I'm looking for that all my life!

What a  waste!
Title: Photonic Gravity - Deleted by BenV at 2009-02-09 18:12:27
Post by: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 14:24:02
Hello Vern!
I discovered the Atlantis City! Sorry Vern only the graveyard! 3/4 of the Golden City is covered by thickest magma layers.
Through the Google; Latitude: 37:19 N, Longitude: 24:58 W.
If serious, there is covered treasure of the mankind!

I'm looking for that all my life!

 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: paul.fr on 09/02/2009 14:56:37
Quote from: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 14:13:50

If serious, there is treasure of the mankind!

Treasure! Do you mean Gold and Diamonds?
Are you happy to share the knowledge of this treasure with mankind?
Should you not be keeping the treasure so you can fund further research?
Title: Photonic Gravity - Deleted by BenV at 2009-02-09 18:12:46
Post by: Vern on 09/02/2009 15:42:59
How did you manage to discover it? Ok; I see; Google Earth. I'll take a look.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 09/02/2009 16:10:03
I went to the location with Google Earth, but couldn't make out any detail. It looked like open ocean; however the bottom floor map showed an elevation table that might be the size of a small continent.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 16:34:06
There is seen half circle only.Diameter of the Golden City was about 100km (5 stade = 92 km)
we can observe central point of the temple. Of course everything, by thick petrified magma and sedimentary layer is covered.

- In the capital of Atlantis there was a grove of Poseidon (Crit. 117b) and the temple of Poseidon consisted of gold, silver, ivory and orichalcum(processed copper’s surface with imitation of the gold). In the temple was monument sculpture Poseidon standing in a chariot drawn by six winged horses, surrounded by dolphins. Thus, if Atlantis City really ever existed, modern coordinates of the golden temple which lies beneath the ocean are that; Latitude: 37:19N, Longitude: 24:58W.
 
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: more atlantis stuff
Post by: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 16:51:59
There is seen half circle only.Diameter of the Golden City was about 100km (5 stade = 92 km)
we can observe central point of the temple. Of course everything, by thick petrified magma and sedimentary layer is covered.

- In the capital of Atlantis there was a grove of Poseidon (Crit. 117b) and the temple of Poseidon consisted of gold, silver, ivory and orichalcum(processed copper’s surface with imitation of the gold). In the temple was monument sculpture Poseidon standing in a chariot drawn by six winged horses, surrounded by dolphins. Thus, if Atlantis City really ever existed, modern coordinates of the golden temple which lies beneath the ocean are that; Latitude: 37:19N, Longitude: 24:58W.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: more atlantis stuff
Post by: Vern on 09/02/2009 16:58:50
Okay; that looks interesting. The sea-floor ridges resemble a giant caldera in that area.
Title: more atlantis stuff
Post by: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 17:05:56
There is survived quarter plane only. A Caldera has not similar plane as well as central strange point!
You can not ever find in a caldera something like this!
"This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north."
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: BenV on 09/02/2009 18:09:46
MOD - I have merged this with the other atlantis thread - please keep all discussion of your hypothesis to one thread, otherwise we'll have duplicated discussions going on all over the place. Any new threads on the same topic will be deleted.
Title: more atlantis stuff
Post by: Vern on 09/02/2009 18:11:47
I'll get Google Earth going and look around the area some more.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LoneStar77 on 10/02/2009 05:36:18
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 01/02/2009 15:13:35
Carl - you raise some interesting points. Unfortunately I know nothing about geology.

I shall digest the rest of what you wrote and regurgitate my musings on it later  [:D]

Well, DocBeaver. The three points of data really had nothing to do with geology, directly. Though they may have been caused by the subsidence of Atlantis, if such a place existed.

I offered PROOF that something BIG happened ~9600 BCE (the year Plato's legendary island empire sank), and these three points of evidence support that subsidence. And not one comment? Hmmm-m-m! Come on guys and gals! Proof! Doesn't that provoke something of the scientist in you?  [;)]

Two points of evidence were climatic (one with help from a geological event somewhere -- volcanic in nature), but from different disciplines. The third point was from oceanographic data, but biological in nature.

Scientists have puzzled about the abrupt ending to the Younger Dryas mini-Ice Age (1300 years of return to Ice Age conditions). A mega-tsunami from the tectonic collapse of a Texas-sized plot of land could have created  the necessary disturbance to the conditions that created the YD in the first place.

A moderately large volcanic trace in the Greenland ice cores shows that there was some volcanic activity at the time Atlantis supposedly sank. This wind-blown precipitation may have originated from a geological event, but the evidence is from climatic research. The volcanic activity apparently continued for roughly another two years or so. Could we expect the Azores region (volcanic for millions of years) to have erupted with the collapse of Atlantis (assuming that was the region where the island empire existed)?

A two-meter drop in sea level worldwide! Calculate the volume of ocean water displaced by a Texas-sized plot of land (I actually used 1.5 x Texas) and assume an average drop of 3000 meters. Now spread this over the connected oceans and seas of the world and you get roughly two meters. Two meters apparently were taken from all the oceans and seas to fill the void left by some tectonic collapse.

Atlantis? The dates match! For all four events.

These three data points from oceanographic and climatic data do not prove Atlantis. Heck, they could be three unrelated events. We don't yet have a corpus delicti, but we now seem to have a smoking gun. Interested?

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
http://www.AncientSuns.com (http://www.AncientSuns.com)
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: LoneStar77 on 10/02/2009 07:50:03
Quote from: K.Margiani on 09/02/2009 14:24:02
Hello Vern!
I discovered the Atlantis City! Sorry Vern only the graveyard! 3/4 of the Golden City is covered by thickest magma layers.
Through the Google; Latitude: 37:19 N, Longitude: 24:58 W.
If serious, there is covered treasure of the mankind!

I'm looking for that all my life!

Mr. Margiani, the map you use is originally from Kircher (1665).

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Please note that Kircher's map has North at the bottom.

Notice the arrow on Kircher's map. You include this on your original diagram and you'll notice that the orientation does not match that of Kircher. The arrow is a compass indicating "North." Also notice that the size of "Atlantis" on Kircher's original is larger than that in your drawing. Why the change in scale and orientation? Why use Kircher's at all?

What is the provenance of Kircher's map? Apparently he got it from Egypt, but from where did the Egyptian artist get their data? How faithfully did Kircher copy the map from Egypt? How faithfully did the Egyptian copy from their sources? If the 1665 map is any indication, I wouldn't trust the accuracy of the drawing of Atlantis. Notice the poorly drawn Iberian Peninsula and Northwest Africa. Notice the blob that is supposed to be America. And what are the two other, smaller islands? Also, Great Britain and Ireland are completely missing from Kircher's map.

Another observation: Plato supposedly has the fertile plain and capital city (your Atlantis City?) facing toward the South. You have this city facing Gibraltar (to the East).

At least with the Azores, the arc of islands (mountains?) embracing lower (now submerged?) land is facing South as Plato indicated. However, the scale is off by a factor of two for the fertile plain he indicated to exist there, but that could be the result of one of those handy-dandy mistranslations I abhor so much. Such a deus ex machina is distasteful, but try this one on for size. The Roman mile is based on 1000 paces, each of which is two steps. Perhaps the Egyptians had some similar measurement that used one step, but Solon (or someone else in the chain of custody of the data) assumed two steps. With that, the size of the plain in Plato's dialogues could fit the space held by the arc of the Azores islands.

What about the location you have chosen for the city makes you think the city was really there? If you base your theory on Plato and Kircher, why are you ignoring so much of each?

If we discuss the subject of Atlantis with any credibility at all (and already we're walking on thin ice as it is), we need to use some restraint in the sources we pick, but also in the interpretations we give the data we use. Wishful thinking or creative imagination are poor substitutes for observation and logical analysis.

Mr. Margiani, if you have some rationale for all of your leaps in logic, you need to fill them in with solid reasoning for anyone to take your theories seriously. You need to explain your choice of Kircher's map with something more than blind faith that Kircher was telling the truth, and that all Egyptians always had it right. You need to explain your deviation from Kircher's original (both scale and orientation). Without some semblance of this, your theory has no solid ground, or even thin ice underneath it. Right now, your theory is not even treading water -- sunk like the mythological island empire about which it purports to explain.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 11/02/2009 06:46:08
Sorry I was busy!

I don't forget. I will send the detail geological explanation for you.
You can understend news in my links about the Atlantis!

I’ve tried many maps but only Kircher’s map could explain many secrets.  Kircher was a Jesuit German priest, who lived between 1602-1680. He published “Mundus Subterraneus”, a book containing a map of Atlantis according to ancient Egyptian maps.  The original map was taken from Egypt by the Romans, probably around 30 AD. I want to say that the map maybe  during difficult millenniums is slowly stretched. There are many details that almost exactly connected to the sunken terrain. Of course the Kircher’s map as well as my map of Atlantis is near to the truth.  Outlines of main three islands on the map are approximately. All map show almost real territories of the sunken kingdom. Eastern part of North America  by the global interaction was uplifted. The pre-flood coastal zone by comparison to the modern maps was very different . The line to the mainland shows pre-flood coastal zone of the uplifted platform after global drift and huge interaction within pre-flood time. The Atlantis  by huge pressure of three surrounded thick platforms was formed. Atlantis was marine power and all pre-flood islands and continents had been captured by them. Easter Islands, Andes, Egypt, Mesopotamia, India and other places have the Atlantian-tracks. One scholar said that “there had been early developed mother culture which had contacts to the all other developing cultures all over the Earth.
The arrow at the corners shows direction of pre-flood and modern magnetic fields. Two mountains on the Kircher’s map are volcanoes. The arc-lines from the peaks of both mountains, on the Kircher’s map show simple volcanic activity. Both volcanoes (X) are on the Mid-Atlantic ridge. strange would be the fault zone without volcanoes. The uplifted ridge without volcanoes would be much more unbelievable. Huge outflows over the Mid Atlantic Ridge could change the volcano coordinates as well. The new fissure outflow zones at the boundary by pre-flood rivers are crossed. Some small lithosphere slabs at the fissure boundaries by ejected masses are broken out. directions of the rivers from mountains to the coastal zones are plausible. Exactly coordinates  where fourth river flowing to the pre-flood bay between two mountain chains  are that:Latitude: 33:31 N, Longitude: 28:42 W.
Modern coordinates of the "trident peaks" about 400 miles off Portugal at the half way from the Gibraltar to the Golden City:
1. Left peak – Latitude: 36:51 N,    Longitude: 14:26 W.
2. Middle peak – Latitude: 37 N,    Longitude: 14:10 W.
3. Right peak – Latitude: 37:02 N, Longitude: 13:52 W.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 21/02/2009 04:13:27
Quote
5 stade = 92 km

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Fnono%2F4.gif&hash=c716169a2ae16cb190152541daffcdc1) Oh dear, oh dear. Wrong yet again. Although the length of a stade has not been definitively proven (the estimates vary from 157 metres to 209 metres. Herodotus said it was 600 feet) it is most commonly accepted that 1 stade = 185 metres.

It is the root of the word "stadium" and was originally the length of ancient Greek running races which were measured as 600 paces. In 776BCE there was only 1 event at the Olympia (the 1st recognised Olympia); a race of 1 length of the stadium. Guess what... the race was recorded as being 1 stade in length (incidentally, it was won by Koroibos of Elias after whom the next Olympia was named). Stade was also used to refer to the actual track the athletes ran on. You appear to have stretched a stade's length roughly 10-fold.

I have asked you before, and I now ask you again, to please check your facts before you post. We on this forum are not gullible idiots. This is the 3rd time I have caught you out (actually more than 3 times but I haven't even bothered responding to the others) and the geological features you mentioned have been shown not to be what you claimed. The more of this rubbish you post, the sillier you make yourself look.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 21/02/2009 04:21:04
Carl - My apologies for not yet having addressed your post. Unfortunately I didn't have the internet in hospital.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: paul.fr on 21/02/2009 13:01:26

'Atlantis' was blip on Google Earth
Hopes that the lost city of Atlantis had been found on Google Earth have been shattered.


Keen observers had spotted what appeared to be the outline of a vast city - the size of Wales - on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean.

But the criss-crossing lines, located 600 miles west of the Canary Islands, were explained as an "artifact" of its map making process.

Details for the ocean maps on Google Earth come from sonar measurements of the sea floor recorded by boats - and the area around the Canaries was mapped by boats travelling in a series of straight lines.

A spokeswoman for Google said: "It's true that many amazing discoveries have been made in Google Earth including a pristine forest in Mozambique that is home to previously unknown species and the remains of an Ancient Roman villa.

"In this case, however, what users are seeing is an artefact of the data collection process.

"Sea floor terrain data is often collected from boats using sonar to take measurements of the sea floor.

"The lines reflect the path of the boat as it gathers the data.

"The fact that there are blank spots between each of these lines is a sign of how little we really know about the world's oceans."

The admission was a blow to Atlantis hunters who are convinced the city still lies undiscovered below the waves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4735793/Atlantis-was-blip-on-Google-Earth.html
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 21/02/2009 16:48:05
Paul - he won't believe that.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: paul.fr on 21/02/2009 16:59:56
I suppose not, afterall he did decode it himself! But I have patrick duffy in chains, so nobody can ever prove it!
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 21/02/2009 19:02:59
How are you DoctorBeaver.
There are few sources in the Internet about the 92km.

I discovered Plato's mix up about sizes.
five stadia 0,92km for the city kingdom is too small.
the Google vividly shows mysterious survived outer arc about 100km and inner arc about 10km.

It means some investigator decided  1stade (Atlantian,Egyptian)= 100 stadia
 10 km for inner city-citadel and 100 km for outer planes are plausible. The Google shows same.
First king of the island was Atlas. Do you believe that one kilometer plane was enough for the kingdom?


yellow and red arcs show survived margins of citadel and shore.
Quote from: Paul. on 21/02/2009 16:59:56
I suppose not, afterall he did decode it himself! But I have patrick duffy in chains, so nobody can ever prove it!
I have research which proves this is truth! result of investigation for 20 years! truth is victorious!


 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 21/02/2009 20:15:09
Quote from: K.Margiani on 21/02/2009 19:02:59
How are you DoctorBeaver.
There are few sources in the Internet about the 92km.

There are internet sources claiming that the Earth is flat and that little green men from Venus have been abducting cattle.

Quote
the Google vividly shows mysterious survived outer arc about 100km and inner arc about 10km.

I could see the outline of a pig.

Quote
It means some investigator decided  1stade (Atlantian,Egyptian)= 100 stadia

Says who? I've not seen that anywhere.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 21/02/2009 20:20:59
What? are you  farmer? where are a pig and cattle?
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 21/02/2009 20:32:41
Quote from: Paul. on 21/02/2009 13:01:26

But the criss-crossing lines, located 600 miles west of the Canary Islands, were explained as an "artifact" of its map making process.
You are right! There is not terrain of Atlantis. There are fissures only.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 21/02/2009 22:48:50
Quote from: K.Margiani on 21/02/2009 20:32:41
Quote from: Paul. on 21/02/2009 13:01:26

But the criss-crossing lines, located 600 miles west of the Canary Islands, were explained as an "artifact" of its map making process.
You are right! There is not terrain of Atlantis. There are fissures only.

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

There's the outline of a mouse near the bottom left corner
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 22/02/2009 04:04:31
It does look like there might be something there. I don't know if we should dismiss it so casually.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 22/02/2009 07:03:25
No Vern, no!
There are lots of criss-crossing lines over the sea-floors. I'm investigating long ago an "artifact". There is triply junction zone of three huge lithosphere plates. The criss-crossing lines are formed by periodic huge interaction between the plates (submarine earthquakes). These periodic events produce criss-crossing fissures. During global geo-catastrophe forms fissure-outflows.
The image indicates another fissure zone: 31W,19N.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 22/02/2009 09:48:20
Vern - read Paul's post further up the page. Those lines are the result of how the map was constructed and are not really there.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 22/02/2009 22:16:45
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 22/02/2009 09:48:20
Vern - read Paul's post further up the page. Those lines are the result of how the map was constructed and are not really there.
Yes; I was a little slow to catch on [:)] I saw it on the Fox channel last night and recognized the pattern from the above post. But I think the lines are in a different location than our subject kingdom.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 23/02/2009 01:35:19
Ah, it's the Atlantean monorail system!
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Vern on 23/02/2009 03:13:59
Yep; that must be it. I'm still looking for the runways of their airports [:)] But not to digress, I'm sure the subject is a serious one to anyone investigating it. [:)]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 23/02/2009 10:23:41
Quote from: DoctorBeaver on 22/02/2009 09:48:20
Vern - read Paul's post further up the page. Those lines are the result of how the map was constructed and are not really there.
Forgot someones fallacies about fissure lines. That has not any connection to the real terrain of the sunken pre-flood kingdom.
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 24/02/2009 12:25:48
Russian unvestigations show that the Atlantic basin is unstable. They took samples of the seabed suggesting that 10,000 years ago the mid-Atlantic ridge was above the surface of the Atlantic. Cores found at the12,000 feet level carry life forms usually seen in fresh-water lakes and sediment found in shallow water and upon dry land. Just as underwater debris can be raised to great heights above sea level to form mountain chains, the reverse is also true.
Prof. Hans Pettersson, leader of the Swedish Albatross expeditions, which extracted hundreds of samples from the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean throughout the 1930's, stated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge was mainly above water as recently as 15,000 years ago. A similar conclusion had been reached earlier by the German Gauss expedition, which sounded the Romanche Deep in 1901.
In 1936, Charles S. Piggot's famous U.S. Geological Survey of deep core soundings indicated that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge reached above the surface of the ocean 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. Different sediment deposits on each side of the Ridge showed that the Ridge once separated two currents moving in opposite directions. Heavy deposits of volcanic ash on both slopes were dated at 12,000 years ago. (Piggot, 1937)
Still another oceanographic expedition, Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition of 1947-1948, yielded core samples containing sand from the Romanche Deep along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Otto Mellis did not publish these findings until ten years later (Mellis, 1958). Other geologists have guardedly admitted that the Azore Islands (Central Atlantic) are composed chiefly of continental material, some even conceding that there might be enough continental material (sial) in the mid-Atlantic to make up a landmass the size of Spain (de Camp, 1970). This is not much smaller than the size I have been proposing for the island of Atlantis.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: Don_1 on 24/02/2009 12:52:04
Atlantis has been discovered soooo many times, and as Paul said this was just another Red Herring created by the mapping methods used which Google Earth utilised.

So far as I am concerned the only worthwhile discovery of Atlantis was by The Shadows in 1963. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VycZVyApqew&feature=PlayList&p=E12A87A8E932EDAF&index=0&playnext=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VycZVyApqew&feature=PlayList&p=E12A87A8E932EDAF&index=0&playnext=1)
Title: ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
Post by: K.Margiani on 25/02/2009 06:48:24
Quote from: Don_1 on 24/02/2009 12:52:04
Atlantis has been discovered soooo many times, and as Paul said this was just another Red Herring created by the mapping methods used which Google Earth utilised.

You and Poul have to forget "just another Red Herring created by the mapping methods used which Google Earth utilised".
There are enough explanations  about someones fallacies and fissure lines. The "Google's lines" Have not any connection to the real terrain of the sunken pre-flood kingdom.