Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: alimac on 13/10/2021 20:21:33

Title: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: alimac on 13/10/2021 20:21:33
Hi,
 I posted years ago (without any reaction) that I believe it is more logical (given the various quantum paradoxes) that rather than a particle taking every possible path through the universe it is more logical that every possible part of the universe comes toward the particle.

 Apparent wave / particle duality in double slit experiments may be caused by the  space time of the detector moving through two slits causing interference.  Movement may be a biocentric illusion because we see the start and end positions and assume what occurred in between. 

If space time were volatile at sub-microscopic levels beyond our perception then it would be just as feasible that  the detector moved rather than the particle moving.  The warping of space time at the macro level may be the aggregate of many smaller micro effects on space time.

(I posted this years ago  https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=69798.0)

An experiment that would go some way to exploring this would be a Wheeler's gate but using rows of semi permeable detectors where x% of the particles passed through the detector. 

If a slit (B) was closed at the time the particles reached the first detector it would show particle on one slit (A). 
If both slits were open at the time the particles reached the second detector would it show wave ?
If a slit (A) was closed at the time the particles reached the third detector would it revert to particle on one slit (B)?
(There are many variations of the above using more rows of detectors)

Has anyone ever done this ? Can anyone predict what would actually happen ?

Hope it's intelligible.
Ali
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: Kryptid on 13/10/2021 20:52:31
it is more logical that every possible part of the universe comes toward the particle.

It think we would notice that. The space where I'm at right now would move towards the particle, thus carrying me with it.
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: alimac on 13/10/2021 22:14:02
"It think we would notice that. The space where I'm at right now would move towards the particle, thus carrying me with it."

 Space time not space : so no you wouldn't. 

To anything outside the particle and detector any mechanism of identifying this would follow the altered space time without any noticeable consequence (something like gravitational lensing would require macro scale disturbances of space time).
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: Kryptid on 14/10/2021 05:59:21
To anything outside the particle and detector any mechanism of identifying this would follow the altered space time without any noticeable consequence (something like gravitational lensing would require macro scale disturbances of space time).

Alterations to space-time are detectable (i.e LIGO and VIRGO).
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: alimac on 14/10/2021 06:17:23
Alterations to space-time are detectable (i.e LIGO and VIRGO).
At the level of a single particle double slit experiment ,,,, really ?
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: Origin on 14/10/2021 16:06:58
I posted years ago (without any reaction) that I believe it is more logical (given the various quantum paradoxes) that rather than a particle taking every possible path through the universe it is more logical that every possible part of the universe comes toward the particle.
It looks like you read something you didn't understand and then based on that proposed a process that doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: alimac on 14/10/2021 16:30:10
It looks like you read something you didn't understand and then based on that proposed a process that doesn't make sense.
It's utterly counter intuitive but almost nothing at a quantum level makes sense.  (I've read enough to understand nobody understands)
Does a particle really take every possible route through the universe ? Does double slit wave / particle duality make sense ?  Or entanglement ? Or tunneling ?
Why would space time be  malleable at a macro level and show no volatility at a micro level ?
It's about 100 years of thinking in the same way with no progress :it's just a theory but at least it's coherent with what is observed.
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: BilboGrabbins on 14/10/2021 16:52:41
It looks like you read something you didn't understand and then based on that proposed a process that doesn't make sense.
It's utterly counter intuitive but almost nothing at a quantum level makes sense.  (I've read enough to understand nobody understands)
Does a particle really take every possible route through the universe ? Does double slit wave / particle duality make sense ?  Or entanglement ? Or tunneling ?
Why would space time be  malleable at a macro level and show no volatility at a micro level ?
It's about 100 years of thinking in the same way with no progress :it's just a theory but at least it's coherent with what is observed.

Yes a particle will take all paths. We've been able to functionally prove this. The best experiment I can think of is Wheelers delayed choice.
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: Kryptid on 14/10/2021 17:05:11
At the level of a single particle double slit experiment ,,,, really ?

So how much movement are you talking about here?
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: alimac on 14/10/2021 18:42:17
It looks like you read something you didn't understand and then based on that proposed a process that doesn't make sense.
It's utterly counter intuitive but almost nothing at a quantum level makes sense.  (I've read enough to understand nobody understands)
Does a particle really take every possible route through the universe ? Does double slit wave / particle duality make sense ?  Or entanglement ? Or tunneling ?
Why would space time be  malleable at a macro level and show no volatility at a micro level ?
It's about 100 years of thinking in the same way with no progress :it's just a theory but at least it's coherent with what is observed.

 
Yes a particle will take all paths. We've been able to functionally prove this. The best experiment I can think of is Wheelers delayed choice.
.  As far as I can see it has never been claimed that this experiment proves particles take all paths.  It relates to retrospective actions effecting superposition, interference and wave particle duality. (Experimental versions using two paths which are modified after the path has been initiated)
Title: Re: Variant of Wheeler's Gate to test if Movement is a Biocentric Ilusion
Post by: alimac on 14/10/2021 18:44:12
At the level of a single particle double slit experiment ,,,, really ?

So how much movement are you talking about here?
Somewhere between the size of the particle to the size of the detector