Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: drkev on 30/10/2003 14:14:34
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This post has gotten me into a whole lot of trouble so I have changed it while action is being taken. I have failed it all by myself and handed it in.
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Dear Kevin
Nice to hear from you again, but in future can you please avoid titles like "HELP" because they give no clue to the content of your post.
Good luck with identifying your molecules !
TNS
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I'm no chemist, so I have not a clue, but this looks like a test for a class. I think the usual objective is that you figure out the answers so that you gain the knowledge you'll need for later classes and life work. I know this sounds kind of pious, but a college education is less about learning everything than learning how to learn new things.
Good luck.
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John
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Ok I have worked it out except for the following:
What is the difference between an isomer and a conformer?
I have managed to answer questions 1-3 but I'm stuck on 4.
I don't want to cheat and I don't want the answers but just some help please
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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I have to agree with Tweener in that it's better to learn than to be told. And because I don't have the foggiest clue. I am impressed with your resourcefulness. Maybe you can teach me a way to get my bills paid. [:)]
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Ronnie, I can teach you that:
1. Write the cheques.
2. Put the cheques and invoices in appropriate return envelopes.
3. Seal and stamp envelopes.
4. Mail them.
[:D][:0][8D][;)]
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Well, herein lies the problem. I've got plenty of checks, but found out the hard way, that checks arent money. My ex payed all the bills and I made the money. (Seems very 1955) I'm having to learn all about money. I can make plenty, but I hate giving it up. I'm not a penny pincher, quite the opposite. I just hate paying bills. The electric company doesn't like rubber checks. And, you can only send the electric company your gas bill and vice versa so many times before they catch on. Ok, now I have to find an experienced nurse that is also good with money. Know anyone?
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And she has to wear scrubs!
I have most of my bills taken out by bank draft. Works pretty well for me. They send you a statement letting you know what they took out, so you can deduct it from your balance. You can do it for utilities, insurance premiums, telephone and cable bills. The rest all goes on my credit card, which I enter and deduct in my check register as I charge. When the bill comes in, I check it against the register to see if it's accurate (that's my chek on the Visa folks.) Since the money's already deducted, I write the check to pay the amount in full, thereby not paying the 18% interest. Also, I have an interest bearing checking account so I get the benefit of the interest for the month -- and they keep raising my credit limit and sending me all these platinum cards. It's a system that works for me.
Bezoar
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Let's please stick to the subject folks. I'm still stuck on question 4 and desperatly need some help.
Thanks
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Bezoar, that sounds very organized. I have to agree with Ronnie that I just hate paying the bills. I usually have enough money, it's just making myself sit down and do it. As for keeping track of individual charges and reconciling everything every month - arrrrggghhhh! I hate that!
I like the automatic debit, but have been too lazy to even set that up for several things.
As for the topic of this thread, I don't think any of us that are mouthing off have the answer to the test. Sorry Kevin.
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John
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Kevin
Cannabinoid who was posting on here recently knows a lot about chemistry. Get Cannabinoid's email address from the profile (see top right of the screen) and ask for help.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Yeah, go ahead and email me if you're still working on your project.
To answer your question as to the difference between an isomer and a conformer:
Two compounds that are isomers have the same chemical formula, ie the same number of atoms, but have different structure. For instance, pentane C5H12 and 2-methyl-butane, also C5H12 are isomers. More specifically, they are structural isomers. Think of it as having 2 houses, each built with the same number of bricks and boards, one is wide with 1 floor and one is thinner with 2 floors.
Conformational isomers are those that have the same chemical formula and same basic structure, but the molecules occupy different positions on that structure. For instance, picture 1-methyl-4-chloro-2-butene. The double bond is in the middle of the molecule, and the methyl and chloro groups can both be on the top/bottom of the double bond or on opposite sides. Respectively, they are called cis and trans conformations. Think of it as 2 identical houses, but on one there is a front door and side door on adjacent sides of the house and on the other, there is a front door and a back door on the opposite side of the house.
Hope that helps you out.
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quote:
Originally posted by cannabinoid
Conformational isomers are those that have the same chemical formula and same basic structure, but the molecules occupy different positions on that structure. For instance, picture 1-methyl-4-chloro-2-butene. The double bond is in the middle of the molecule, and the methyl and chloro groups can both be on the top/bottom of the double bond or on opposite sides. Respectively, they are called cis and trans conformations. Think of it as 2 identical houses, but on one there is a front door and side door on adjacent sides of the house and on the other, there is a front door and a back door on the opposite side of the house.
We call this Geometric isomerism in the UK (or maybe it's just a term used in A-Level)
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
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That doesn't surprise me. Terminology in organic chemistry is widely disagreed upon. I've also heard stereoisomers called conformational isomers.
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Thanks Cannabinoid that helps. We were taught about cis and trans in the lectures but the lecturers assume that everyone has the same level of understanding so those of us that need extra help are left behind.
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Another possible definition of conformer they might be using, which occured to me today, is that of the difference in the orientation of the molecule in space. (Also called a rotamer)
For instance, staggered and gauche rotational conformations or chair vs. boat conformations of cyclohexane.
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There is also another isomerism called optical isomerism where molecules exist as mirror image of each other. An example is the famous thalidomide.
"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein
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Download freeware "chemsketch" from ACDLABS.COM, create any structure you like (you can't create wrong structure), then go to tools and klick "generate name from structure". You can also do many other operations.
You'll get fond of chemistry after that...
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Hi Kevin
what's up ? What's going on ?
chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Well my lecturer decided that by asking for help I was cheating. I was publicly given a good b*****king in front of the class. He deleted my name from the bottom of my post to keep me anonymous as he put it but left my user name on there. As I'm the only Kevin on the whole course everyone knows it's me and I've been branded as a cheater.
As far as I'm aware, I never attempted to cheat I was just asking for help on something I didn't understand.
I am curious as to how he found out I'm pretty sure someone told him as a student saw me place the post on here.
I now face a panel for "cheating"
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Bloody hell! Sorry to hear that Kevin.
I would've thought making use of the available resources was part of the learning process. The use of modern resources (like these forums and the net generally) will be available when you are using your degree in the workforce. What's wrong with using it now, while you are learning, and maybe increasing your base of available information.
In my role, I make use of the resources on the internet on a regular basis. Being an accountant, this forum is just learning new stuff. You guys have taught me things I never dreamed of knowing.
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I think the lecturer was more annoyed that I called him sadistic.
I tried to explain that it was nothing personal and was not meant to cause offence. I was just trying to get over how difficult I felt the coursework was.
Some little $hit has it in for me at uni because they complained that I posted on this forum.
It is one of three people I am going to find out who it was and get my mate on to it (He is one of the top barristers in the UK) I want a public apology for defemation of character and victimisation.
There have been many many complaints about me for the pettiest things and this really takes the pi$$.
I haven't even done anything wrong!
Is anyone on here willing and able to email me a reference to take to the head of school? No obligation and I know it's cheeky to ask but if someone can confirm that I wasn't cheating and include some of the replies I was getting it would really help my case and I may notget chucked off the course.
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Kevin, make sure NOT to edit your entry posted - 30 Oct 2003 : 17:20:13. You can't go in there without the edit comment showing up on the bottom, which proves that it is an original comment that states your intent. You can copy and print that comment, or the whole set of replies.
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You know, that sucks when you're just trying to be resourceful and you get branded as a cheater. I thought you made it quite clear that you weren't trying to cheat -- that you just needed clarification on one particular aspect of the problem. Instead of rewarding you for trying to find the answer, they punish you? Hmmm, no wonder the UK has trouble getting and keeping doctors. Seems like the abuse starts in school. I wonder if you had asked the same question to one of the other professors at school would it have been considered cheating?
Bezoar
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I have now printed all of the posts for the tribunal to read
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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I emailed the lecturer last night and He has just replied saying that I did cheat but it won't be taken any further.
I still can't see how I cheated
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Sounds like they are being a bit petty to me. If you were given explicit instructions that you must not seek any assistance with this piece of work, then fair enough. But if this is not the case then I think it is just a little unreasonable to penalise you for asking for help in the way that you did. It is not altogether different to going to the chemistry dept. at your college and finding a friend to help you.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Looks like they're teaching you more office politics than chemistry.
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RESULT!!!
The course leader has said that I wasn't cheating and that I was being resourceful and using initiative.
I knew I wasn't cheating
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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Did you get a public apology from the person who was so quick to accuse you? Of course s/he would have to address the apology to your user name.
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no apology because he insists i cheated but the course leader says that i haven't and that's what's important
Live long and Love life
Kevin Fisher
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That's a good thing, Kevin. I'm glad at least one of them exercised proper judgement.
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I'm glad to hear you're ok on this Kevin. I hope your instructor doesn't make the rest of the course difficult for you.
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John
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Good effort !
Nice when a plan comes together !
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Congrats!
I've been in your position before and completley undersand what you
have just been through. I am glad to have learned that you pulled through. Keep being resourceful as the previous posts have mentioned!
Take it easy and have a good day,
-Lee