Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: seeker3 on 29/03/2019 03:56:17
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Science told you gravity speed is light speed, 3 x 10^8 m/s.
Which is mistake.
Gravity is attraction force between matters. Gravity never stop pulling matters together. Gravity is coexisting with matters, always there and already there, therefore instantaneous.
If you can't understand the simple logic, you need to think it through.
Newton thought gravity is instantaneous, with other great thinkers in the past.
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Feel free to present actual evidence this time...
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Force has direction, attitude and force source/carrier.
Force has no speed. Force already conquered the distance between matters.
Only matter at motion has speed.
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Realized gravity is instantaneous, wondering how can LIGO detected gravity from 1.3 billion years away/ago?
Wondering how come LIGO cannot detect CME or earth quake?
Good, start thinking, after truth, seek and you will find.
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Force has no speed.
The carrier of the force has speed.
Realized gravity is instantaneous, wondering how can LIGO detected gravity from 1.3 billion years away/ago?
Because it isn't instantaneous. LIGO has two different detectors that are widely separated from each other. By measuring the difference in the times that the gravitational waves were detected, they were able to confirm that gravitational waves travel at the speed of light.
Wondering how come LIGO cannot detect CME or earth quake?
I don't know what CME means, but it can and does detect earthquakes. That has to be filtered out of the data.
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CME is imaginary.
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CME is imaginary.
What is it an acronym for?
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Science told you gravity speed is light speed, 3 x 10^8 m/s.Which is mistake.Gravity is attraction force between matters. Gravity never stop pulling matters together. Gravity is coexisting with matters, always there and already there, therefore instantaneous.If you can't understand the simple logic, you need to think it through.Newton thought gravity is instantaneous, with other great thinkers in the past.
If u search van flandern in New Theories there is mention that van flandern & others reckoned that gravity has a speed of at least 20 billion c.
A speed of c kmps for gravity is nonsense.
Instantaneous action at a distance is nonsense.
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CME is volcano eruption on the Sun. It can produce gravity wave on planets. Similar to vibrating plasma/electrons on the Sun can produce light wave on planets.
Both gravity and light waves are teleport from matter to matter, space has no resistance to energy, distance has no resistance to energy.
Any pair of charged particles at distance R, are connected by Coulomb's force F=Ke x pq/R^2. Therefore they are quantum entangled. Spooky action at a distance is a fact.
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Force has no speed.
Just repeating it does not make it true.
wondering how can LIGO detected gravity from 1.3 billion years away/ago?
Because that's what it was made for,- by people who actually understand gravity.
Wondering how come LIGO cannot detect CME or earth quake?
Because earthquakes and coronal mass ejections don't involve accelerating much mass they don't generate waves strong enough to detect.
They do shake the equipment and can cause interference that has to be filtered out. But that's carried by sound waves not gravity waves.
CME is imaginary.
No, they are real.
CME is volcano eruption on the Sun.
No, it's not.
It can produce gravity wave on planets.
A fly farting generates gravity waves; but not strong enough ones to detect.
Spooky action at a distance is a fact.
And again, just repeating it doesn't make it true.
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Gravity is inherited force between masses, it is co-existed, indestructible, immortal, always there. Therefore gravity is instantaneous, it has infinite speed.
Gravity is like invisible, mass less invisible real connection between masses.
If the Sun has a quake, all planets will instantly sense the gravity wave..
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Pull a spring with your hands, feel the force pulling your hands together?
That force is similar to gravity pulling matters together. what is its speed?
Force is always there, therefore instantaneous, no speed, infinite speed.
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Wondering how come LIGO cannot detect CME or earth quake?
Is CME "Coronal Mass Ejection?
If so, the mass in a CME at around a billion tons is far too low to generate significant gravitational waves.
The Earth (at 1021 tons) only generates about 200 Watts of gravitational waves, nothing compared to the several solar masses of gravitational wave energy released in a merger of 2 black holes of 30 solar masses each.
If the Sun has a quake, all planets will instantly sense the gravity wave..
A CME does represent a Sunquake. But it typically takes about 3 days for the effects to be felt on Earth (faster CMEs have arrived in just 13 hours).
Hardly instantaneous...
Coulomb's force F=Ke x pq/R^2. Therefore they are quantum entangled
Coulomb's force persists for seconds (or even minutes) at room temperature.
This is well beyond the microsecond or so that quantum entanglement lasts at the temperature of liquid helium.
They are radically different phenomena.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
I fear you have your physics tangled...
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Coulomb's force persists for seconds (or even minutes) at room temperature.
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Coulomb's force last forever.
What is the speed of gravity in your opinion?
What is the mechanism of CME? Does the mass fall back to the Sun? Why CMEs have different speed?
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Science told you gravity speed is light speed, 3 x 10^8 m/s.
Which is mistake.
Gravity is attraction force between matters. Gravity never stop pulling matters together. Gravity is coexisting with matters, always there and already there, therefore instantaneous.
If you can't understand the simple logic, you need to think it through.
Newton thought gravity is instantaneous, with other great thinkers in the past.
Gravity does not have a speed , an object affected by gravity that is in freefall towards another body has a speed which is ~9.81m/s2 if my mind serves me correctly .
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Science told you gravity speed is light speed, 3 x 10^8 m/s.
Which is mistake.
Gravity is attraction force between matters. Gravity never stop pulling matters together. Gravity is coexisting with matters, always there and already there, therefore instantaneous.
If you can't understand the simple logic, you need to think it through.
Newton thought gravity is instantaneous, with other great thinkers in the past.
Speed doesn't exceed c for an object whether the kinetic energy is as a result of gravity force or any other force.It doesn't matter gravity is just a force .
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Pull a spring with your hands, feel the force pulling your hands together?
That force is similar to gravity pulling matters together. what is its speed?
Force is always there, therefore instantaneous, no speed, infinite speed.
It travels at the speed of sound through the spring, much lower than the speed of light even.
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Gravity has no speed, Thebox got it correct.
9.8 m/c^2 is acceleration, not speed. Speed is acceleration times time, v=at.
Gravity is like perfect spring pulling matters together, mass less, invisible force.
f=ma, m=0, a=infinite. That is gravity acceleration..
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Once you understood gravity is instantaneous, you know LIGO mistaken detected black holes merged 1.3 billion years ago.
Or LIGO lied for more funding?
Why cares? Not my money.
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Once you understood gravity is instantaneous, you know LIGO mistaken detected black holes merged 1.3 billion years ago.
You have it backwards. The detection of gravitational waves by LIGO confirming that they travel at the speed of light falsifies your assertion that they travel at infinite speed.
Or LIGO lied for more funding?
Not unless you can come up with some very good evidence that such a conspiracy exists. By the way, the VIRGO detector in Europe also found gravitational waves. So you are talking about an international conspiracy. Again. Are you serious?
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Science told you gravity speed is light speed, 3 x 10^8 m/s.
Which is mistake.
Gravity is attraction force between matters. Gravity never stop pulling matters together. Gravity is coexisting with matters, always there and already there, therefore instantaneous.
If you can't understand the simple logic, you need to think it through.
Newton thought gravity is instantaneous, with other great thinkers in the past.
If the universe has walls and is not infinite then gravity's final resting point would be a 3d pull on those walls. In fact the fact that gravitational pull isn't diminishing as we move forward in time might be evidence that the universe does have walls.
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Thebox got it correct.
That would be unusual.Gravity is like perfect spring pulling matters together
No
A spring pulls back harder when you stretch it more.
Gravity pulls back less when you stretch it more.
That's a seriously important difference.
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Force is always there, therefore instantaneous, no speed
No, it's not infinitely fast.
It's slow enough that you can watch it, but it's easier in slow motion
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Put 1 electron and 1 proton at R distance, the attraction force is F=Ke x pq/R^2.
That force has no speed, that force is always there. Force don't travel, don't move from matter to matter.
Electron and proton don't emit forcetrons to each other to attract each other.
Just like gravity is always attracting Sun and earth, they don't emit gravitons to each other.
Get it now?
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Put 1 electron and 1 proton at R distance, the attraction force is F=Ke x pq/R^2.
That force has no speed, that force is always there. Force don't travel, don't move from matter to matter.
Are you hoping that this will become true if you say it often enough?
Electron and proton don't emit forcetrons to each other to attract each other.
Nobody said that they emit "forcetrons".
Just like gravity is always attracting Sun and earth, they don't emit gravitons to each other.
So you've found an experiment that falsifies the existence of gravitons?
Get it now?
Yes, I get that you don't understand physics.
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Get it now?
Yes, we now understand that you have no idea about science and no intention to learn.
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No matter how far away, no matter how earth moves, the gravity between earth and Sun is always there, never stop.
How can gravity has speed? Why gravity propagate through space at light speed? What is traveling through space at light speed?
If you cannot 100% understand, tell me why. Open your mind, I am trying to help you.
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No matter how far away, no matter how earth moves, the gravity between earth and Sun is always there, never stop.
No matter how far away two ships are from each other, the waves on the ocean between those ships are always there. The waves never stop. And yet those waves still travel at a limited speed. So your analogy does not imply infinite travel speed.
How can gravity has speed?
It has a speed in the same way that waves on an ocean have a speed, except in this case the "ocean" is space-time.
Why gravity propagate through space at light speed?
Because that is as fast something can move in space. Gravitons don't have an invariant mass/rest mass, so they don't slow down below the speed of light.
What is traveling through space at light speed?
Waves of space-time distortion.
If you cannot 100% understand, tell me why.
I do understand what you are saying, and it's wrong.
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No matter how far away two ships are from each other, the waves on the ocean between those ships are always there. The waves never stop. And yet those waves still travel at a limited speed. So your analogy does not imply infinite travel speed.
Ships are float on the water, they don't attract each other with gravity.
Sun and earth are connected by gravity all the time. Gravity does not travel from Sun to earth.
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Once you understood why gravity is instantaneous. You can understand why light speed in vacuum is infinite.
The repulsion force between electrons on the surface of the Sun and electrons on earth outer atmosphere is 10^36 times stronger than gravity. The vibration force/energy they carried is teleport freely between them. Then it propagates in air at light speed.
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The nature is simple and beautiful.
Nature law is simple and beautiful.
Man made law is strange and ugly.
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Ships are float on the water, they don't attract each other with gravity.
So you don't know what a metaphor is?
Sun and earth are connected by gravity all the time. Gravity does not travel from Sun to earth.
Once you understood why gravity is instantaneous. You can understand why light speed in vacuum is infinite.
The repulsion force between electrons on the surface of the Sun and electrons on earth outer atmosphere is 10^36 times stronger than gravity. The vibration force/energy they carried is teleport freely between them. Then it propagates in air at light speed.
You keep saying this but you have yet to provide evidence for it.
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Water surface waves between two ships is not gravity wave.
Water is not gravity nor gravity wave.
Between the Sun and earth there is no water, only attraction force.
That force is gravity, it has no speed, it is always there.
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Water surface waves between two ships is not gravity wave.
Water is not gravity nor gravity wave.
Between the Sun and earth there is no water, only attraction force.
Nobody said there was, so that is irrelevant
That force is gravity, it has no speed, it is always there.
Just saying it again does not make it true.
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When are you going to give us some actual evidence?
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Who is us?
Only you don't get it and keep fooling around.
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Anyone says gravity is propagating in space at light speed is mistaken.
Gravity is inherited force, always existing force. It does not propagate.
Only waves can propagate, only matters can carry wave.
Space is just empty space. There is nothing waves in space.
There is no fabric of space, no ripples of space-time.
All word puzzle, made up to confuse you into a false theory.
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Relativity says matter tells space how to curve, space tells matter how to move.
It is word puzzle. What is the mechanism?
Only force can make matter move, only matter can carry force.
Space is empty space. Space has nothing to do with matter.
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Hi there,
New guy getting in first post.
Couple of things. Force can not be defined without speed/acceleration.
If there is one force then there must be another - if that Newton guy is to be trusted.
When we consider the gravitational interaction, we are looking at just two components, matter and space - or space-time. Might we say that matter is applying a force on space - to draw it in - and so space is applying a force on matter - to draw it out (expand)?
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Who is us?
Everyone here other than you.
Anyone says gravity is propagating in space at light speed is mistaken.
Gravity is inherited force, always existing force. It does not propagate.
Only waves can propagate, only matters can carry wave.
Space is just empty space. There is nothing waves in space.
There is no fabric of space, no ripples of space-time.
All word puzzle, made up to confuse you into a false theory.
When are you going to give us some actual evidence?
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It is well understood that the vacuum of space is not nothing. The string theories themselves are predicated on the vacuum being composed of quanta that are modelled with strings (DeSitter/Calabi-Yau spaces). To say that it is ignores not only some of the most prominent physicists about but also ignores the empirical evidence from accelerators upon which the string theories are based
If there is no fabric of space(time) , how is gravity able to change over distance from one point to another? Space is something and structure must be present at the quantum level through which gravitational force is relayed - at the speed of light.
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Word puzzle?
What is the content of fabric of space?
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Quantum anything is mislead.
What is quantum? The godfather of quanta, nobel winner of photoelectric effect theory said he knows not what are light quanta, everyone thinks he knows it is mistake.
So, what is quanta?
Faynman said scientists don't know what is energy, you know better?
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Do you think that "I don't know what it is" and "It doesn't exist" are synonymous statements?
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Thebox
"a body in freefall towards another body has a speed which is ~9.81m/s2 "
The acceleration that you quote only takes place over a very limited distance compared to the radius of the Earth, to calculate the acceleration of a body falling from a greater distance you have to take account of the fact that the gravitational attraction falls off as the square of the distance.
otherwise you would soon have bodies falling at light speed and acquiring infinite mass according to SR
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Energy coexists with matter, energy is the motive force carried with matter.
Energy is not photon particle, not imaginary quanta blobs.
Einstein and Feynman thought so.
All word puzzles less than fact and logic.
All theories must have precise mechanism, without it, just word salad, monkey theory.
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Do you think that "I don't know what it is" and "It doesn't exist" are synonymous statements?
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Quantum is a smallest single piece of whatever - a quantum of solace for instance. Its a word not a concept. The fabric of space can be modelled with one dimensional 'matter' strings - Dirac called it a 'sea of electrons'. I am not aware of a single theory that considers space as nothing.
The best way I have found to picture energy is as volume. Chemically, all exothermic reactions result in lower volume states - as can be determined through the ideal gas equation. We could picture the volume given to the Universe in the inflationary epoch (Guth) as energy and its components as 'energised' with volume. Thereafter, for all fixed matter systems, reductions in volume lead to increases in density - the initial conditions of the Universe requires an 'infinitely' dense matter particle - a singularity - like the much smaller supernova and SMBH singularities. Everything can be seen as getting smaller and returning to its initial volume state. Energy may not be a 'thing' but a glimpse of the movement of volume as it leaves the system emitting it. We can then consider a volume interacting with matter as a transfer of energy. Heat something up and it expands, cool it and it contracts. I have never found an application of 'volume as energy' to produce an outcome that was inconsistent with the event it is modelling. Try it.
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Thermal energy is vibrating electrostatic force matter carried. Kinetic energy is motive force moving matter carried.
All energy came from atom formation. Opposite charges particles attract each other to form atom, portaincial energy becomes atom's thermal energy.
There is nothing quanta, no energy pocket, energy blob, energy particle.
Energy has no charge, no mass, no volume, no speed.
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Energy must coexist with matter.
Energy is not matter.
E=MC^2 is mistaken.
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If E=MC^2 is correct.
Take 1 kg any kind of matter, get top scientists, show us how to produce 1 kg C^2 energy?
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Energy must coexist with matter.
Energy is not matter.
E=MC^2 is mistaken.
The onus is on you to show evidence that this is the case. All you have done is posted page after page of semi-literate nonsense.
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Scientists think a matter carries more mass if it is hotter, because energy equals to mass.
Fact is, hotter atoms don't weight more, hotter atoms vibrate faster.
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Scientists think a matter carries more mass if it is hotter, because energy equals to mass.
Fact is, hotter atoms don't weight more, hotter atoms vibrate faster.
Evidence or STFU
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If E=MC^2 is fact, why we still using oil and coal?
We should be able to turn any matter into energy.
Why fusion still a dream after 80 years and trillion $? Even fusion succeed, it only convert 1% mass into energy. How can E=MC^2 is correct?
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If you have all the answers, where are your workings, where is your logic, where is your website with your theory. Instead of being an evangelist for a truth only you believe, make your complete truth known so that we can make a conclusive decision about it. But you can't do that. You have fragments of ideas that have no foundation. You are unashamedly spurious in what is understood in physics. You are not prepared to listen, only rant. I am a newbie to NS but not to physics and know that you would not get away with this on any other forum. The answer to your original post is that, the speed of light is a property of the structure of spacetime. Anything that moves through it is subject to the limitations of the structure - its ability to react to, and therefore communicate 'information' . Light and gravity are both subject to it. Its not difficult to understand.
:( Sad that no meaningful discussion can take place with you. SYLA.
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If E=MC^2 is fact, why we still using oil and coal?
Because 100% conversion of mass to energy requires very special circumstances (such as matter-antimatter annihilation). There is nowhere near enough antimatter on Earth for us to use it for power generation.
E=mc2 has been experimentally tested and found to be correct: https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2005/12/einstein-was-right-again-experiments-confirm-e-mc2
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What is the speed of gravity?
The speed of gravity is light speed.
Why?
Because all scientists say so. Textbooks say so. Everyone think so. Therefore gravity speed is 3 x 10^8 m/s.
Common mistake due to bad education.
The fact is gravity has no speed, gravity does not propagate from Sun to earth, gravity is constantly attracting the Sun and earth. Therefore gravity has no speed, it is instantaneous.
What is the speed of mass? What is the speed of charge? What is the speed of temperature?
Temperature, mass and charge just like gravity, coexisting with matter, inherited, indestructible and immortal. All instantaneous, have no speed.
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Even fusion succeed, it only convert 1% mass into energy. How can E=MC^2 is correct?
If that was true (it's not) then the answer would be because only 1% of the mass was destroyed so only 1% of the mas gets multiplied by C^2
If E=MC^2 is fact, why we still using oil and coal?
Some of us are using nuclear power- energy released by the destruction of mass.
Do you have some laughable explanation of how nuclear fission power works?