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  1. Naked Science Forum
  2. On the Lighter Side
  3. Complementary Medicine
  4. Can We Trust Homeopathy?
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Can We Trust Homeopathy?

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Offline Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)

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Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« on: 19/12/2014 02:29:53 »
Rarely, if ever, do companies that manufacture vitamin and supplements allow their claims to be scientifically tested in a controlled setting (i.e. clinical trials). A lot of these manufacturers make billions due to our tendency to be susceptible of magical thinking and reluctance to follow data.

Below is a video I edited and posted on YouTube. In it we see something that only rarely happens: the man who invented the "Dynactiv SR" homeopathic wristbands ACTUALLY ALLOWS his product to be tested in a controlled setting.  The inventor claims that his product unambiguously gives the wearer greater strength and improved balance via tiny (inactive) microchips that are embedded into the products. It is the opinion of the James Randi Educational Foundation and Australian Skeptics that Needle's claims violate scientific laws. They invite him to TAM 2012, offering him a million dollars if he can prove his claims in a controlled, mutually agreed upon setting.  This is a very short clip from Needle's hour long test.
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Offline RD

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #1 on: 19/12/2014 03:55:49 »
Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 19/12/2014 02:29:53
.... the man who invented the "Dynactiv SR" homeopathic wristbands ACTUALLY ALLOWS his product to be tested in a controlled setting.  The inventor claims that his product unambiguously gives the wearer greater strength and improved balance  ...

Evidently those type of wristbands don't remove wrinkles ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Balance

No-nonsense Aussies investigate these wristbands here ...
« Last Edit: 19/12/2014 04:04:33 by RD »
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Offline nitya sharma

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #2 on: 14/06/2017 12:31:22 »
Yes we can trust but the medication process is too slow as compare to alopathy
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #3 on: 14/06/2017 21:51:46 »
We can, it seems, trust homeopathy to provide us with the inspiration for jokes.
https://xkcd.com/765/

Bumper sticker "Homeopaths do it by banging it on a rubber block."  *
Did you hear about the homeopath who forgot to take his "remedy" and died of an overdose.
however it simply doesn't work as a form of medical treatment beyond the placebo effect.


*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Preparation
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #4 on: 20/06/2017 12:13:49 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 14/06/2017 21:51:46
We can, it seems, trust homeopathy to provide us with the inspiration for jokes.
https://xkcd.com/765/

Bumper sticker "Homeopaths do it by banging it on a rubber block."  *
Did you hear about the homeopath who forgot to take his "remedy" and died of an overdose.
however it simply doesn't work as a form of medical treatment beyond the placebo effect.


*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Preparation


The placebo affect is important when testing legitimate medicines via science based clinical studies. The fact that you need to include the placebo affect, this shows how the brain can be used to heal some conditions. This also tells me, that there might also be something, that one could call a placebo disease. A placebo disease would be one that is created by the mind, to mimic the latest fad disease, so one can move with the herd.

It might be a useful study to make up a placebo disease, using fake news, to see if we can get people to develop the symptoms.

Is it possible, that those cured or who show improvement using a placebo, begin with a placebo version of the disease or condition. Since it was created by the mind, it can be cured by the mind, if there is focus and hope. 

Homeopathic medicine, may not have valid scientific studies, however, if it might help some people develop placebo skills, which can help them avoid placebo disease, and/or maybe cure placebo disease. 

There is a logic for the placebo affect. Water defines the equilibrium shapes and activities of enzymes. The body is most water, with nervous tissue everywhere, which has access to ions, which can be sued to tweak the water, at any scale and therefore alter the equilibrium shapes and activities of protein. Medicines do the same thing but use organic attachments and addendum.  It may be possible to take a more holistic water approach to health thereby simplifying the development process.
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Offline RD

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #5 on: 20/06/2017 18:46:27 »
Quote from: puppypower on 20/06/2017 12:13:49
... there might also be something, that one could call a placebo disease. A placebo disease would be one that is created by the mind ...

"placebo disease" = psychogenic disease.


Quote from: puppypower on 20/06/2017 12:13:49
... the placebo affect, this shows how the brain can be used to heal some conditions.

In objectively-measurable organic-disease there is no placebo-effect.
« Last Edit: 20/06/2017 18:51:05 by RD »
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #6 on: 23/06/2017 13:35:54 »
Quote from: RD on 20/06/2017 18:46:27
Quote from: puppypower on 20/06/2017 12:13:49
... there might also be something, that one could call a placebo disease. A placebo disease would be one that is created by the mind ...

"placebo disease" = psychogenic disease.


Quote from: puppypower on 20/06/2017 12:13:49
... the placebo affect, this shows how the brain can be used to heal some conditions.

In objectively-measurable organic-disease there is no placebo-effect.


I like the term placebo disease, because it like a sugar pill placebo, it is fed to others. Placebo disease has a connection to the power of external suggestion, and is more than a personal psychological choice; psychogenic disease.

The medical industry is huge business not run by doctors. They make money off sick people, with the more sick people you have good for business. If you advertise the new cure for psoriasis, business can expand with a placebo virus; ad mantra.  This is different from those with a genuine physical condition that was there before the marketing campaign. Although some of that may be psychogenic.

A good example of all three together would alcoholism and drug addiction. There is some physical cause; biological,  there is some psychogenic; psychological, cause and there is social placebo disease; social norms, all mixed together. Holistic medicine is more geared to the last two. These have been defined as diseases; physical, with the other two possibilities hidden from view. 

Quitting cigarettes is an example of a placebo disease for profit. There is no reason one cannot quit without all types of free market prosthesis. However, one is convinced that quitting involved more than your head, so sales does not suffer and new industries can enter the market.
« Last Edit: 23/06/2017 13:46:32 by puppypower »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #7 on: 24/06/2017 12:44:43 »
There's also this sort of thing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosomatic_medicine#Denotations_of_the_term_.22psychosomatic_illness.22
 
but homeopathy is still nonsense.
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Offline Bill S

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #8 on: 30/09/2017 00:16:23 »
Michael Brooks has some interesting things to say about the placebo effect and homeopathy in "13 Things That Don't Make Sense"; including:  "It's patently absurd, so why won't it go away?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #9 on: 30/09/2017 18:24:59 »
Homeopathy meets the primary criterion of Hippocrates ἐπὶ δηλήσει δὲ καὶ ἀδικίῃ εἴρξειν (first, do no harm). Physic is defined as what we do to entertain the patient whilst nature takes its course. So it's as good as anything else, and no worse than some conventional treatments!
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Offline puppypower

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #10 on: 02/10/2017 12:04:20 »
We could test homeopathy by using fake news, to make up a trendy fake disease, to see how many people will develop the symptoms. I believe there will be a certain percent of the people who will develop the symptoms; power of suggestion leading to mind over matter.

Once we get a few hits, we feed into the experiment, using the media template of making one example appearing like the new trend. For example, one airline crash means all the planes will begin to fall from the sky, so we have to check them all. Some people need the herd to say it is OK to develop symptoms. 

The second part of the experiment, we will say scientists at the center for disease control have come up with a revolutionary drug, which will be a placebo, that the Government will distribute. This drug can be marketed as very expensive, which is why the government had to step in.  We then see how many people, with the placebo disease, can be cured with a trendy overpriced placebo drug. Prestige is important for placebo speed.

This would provide a baseline for the mind over matter affect, associated with homeopathy, which often spills into traditional medicine for a profit boost. Traditional medicine places homeopathy behind the curtain where it can pull levers for them.

A good example of the profit boost is the flu vaccine. I have never received a flu vaccine, yet I have never gotten the flu. Or if I did it get the flu, it was very mild. However, had I accepted the social premise and peer pressure for the flu vaccine, and had received the vaccine all these years, I would have been engaged in homeopathic medicine but never told that; behind the curtain. For me, the vaccine was not needed, but my mind would soon rationalize it and attributed my good health to a placebo for profit using hidden homeopathy. There is no baseline to filter this out, which is why such experiments, as above, are needed,

 

 
« Last Edit: 02/10/2017 12:08:53 by puppypower »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #11 on: 02/10/2017 20:59:31 »
Quote from: puppypower on 02/10/2017 12:04:20
We could test homeopathy by...
Why bother?
We know it doesn't work
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Offline Danne

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Re: Can We Trust Homeopathy?
« Reply #12 on: 04/10/2017 13:32:37 »
Homeopathy will never have any clinical studies which support its position.
It can only be helpful if it relieves the patients stress and anxiety regarding the disease.

It most certainly can have a "placebo" effect.
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