Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: paul.fr on 11/09/2007 08:17:08
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feces have that reddy brown colour due to the breakdown products of red blood cells, so why is babies feces not the same colour?
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Meconium is the first stool of an infant, composed of materials ingested during the time the infant spends in the uterus: Intestinal epithelial cells, lanugo, mucus, amniotic fluid, bile, and water. Meconium is sterile, unlike later feces, is viscous and sticky like tar, and has no odor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meconium
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LOL..the above link leads to a rather lovely piccy too(hmm..I wonder if it's good at getting rid of CD scratches ?)
Having enjoyed dealing with four babies of my own during the entire night shift I concur that baby poo is indeed a joy to behold.
Of course for the initial period of babies life all they do is drink milk !!...this helps bring joy and luff to defecation wonderment.
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A friend of mine has a child who has since grown up, my how time drifts by. Anyway, his son was always poorly and the graph chart they give mums reflected his slow progress. Tilted his bed by 5 degrees so head end higher than foot end and his graph line crossed over and exceeded children of his own developing age. So when the next child was born, the same tilted bed was applied right from birth. So how does this fit with my post I hear you muttering ?
The parents reported firm stools, not sloppy stools indicating that the gut and intestines were processing the food better than when the baby was kept flat.
Fascinating subject
Andrew
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how old was the first baby when they started tilting him?
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A friend of mine has a child who has since grown up, my how time drifts by. Anyway, his son was always poorly and the graph chart they give mums reflected his slow progress. Tilted his bed by 5 degrees so head end higher than foot end and his graph line crossed over and exceeded children of his own developing age. So when the next child was born, the same tilted bed was applied right from birth. So how does this fit with my post I hear you muttering ?
The parents reported firm stools, not sloppy stools indicating that the gut and intestines were processing the food better than when the baby was kept flat.
Fascinating subject
Andrew
I was under the impression babies (newborns stools) were supposed to be softer in order for their little bodies to be better able to make their daily deposits with their small less then strong muscles!
Newborn babies that are breast fed have seedy looking yellowish stools that are not sticky but more just softer.
The Meconnium stools are usually black and only last one or two days after birth. This has been My experience with all of my breastfed children. I nursed them all for 6 months.
They all stayed odor less until the introduction of solids as Neil said they all drink milk. Mine nursed so it was different. My friends baby was on formula and her stools were slightly different then breast fed stools.
My second child was two months late and in trouble I had been induced twice with him, They did not want to operate because of my heart, so when he got here he was very sick he had had many stools before he was delivered and his lungs had Meconium in them he spent six month in and out of the hospital because they did not diagnose him until later. Chronic infections in lungs and in his ears, they finally took some kind of sample and found out what it was . everything was changed and medication given for all the infection, He finally got over it , he wheezed forever and had to be rushed to hospital on several occasions as he became syanotic. Was very scary but he is healthy big strapping young man, not tall but built like a big football player! LOL
Meconium is nasty sticky stuff if it comes after birth, before birth can cause trouble!
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A friend of mine has a child who has since grown up, my how time drifts by. Anyway, his son was always poorly and the graph chart they give mums reflected his slow progress. Tilted his bed by 5 degrees so head end higher than foot end and his graph line crossed over and exceeded children of his own developing age. So when the next child was born, the same tilted bed was applied right from birth. So how does this fit with my post I hear you muttering ?
The parents reported firm stools, not sloppy stools indicating that the gut and intestines were processing the food better than when the baby was kept flat.
Fascinating subject
Andrew
I wonder if this would help adults with issues with their stools?
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I think the colour aspect is driven by food ...
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I think the colour aspect is driven by food ...
In children and adults, yes. Foods such as beetroot and even food colourings used in baking can alter the colour. But i don't know about babies.
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From memory I seem to recall around 2 months, because they were concerned about his poor progress with the corresponding graphs of children around the same age.
how old was the first baby when they started tilting him?
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Hi Karen
Just found this thread again and realised I had to reply to you and everyone else.
The sloppy stool issue, may be little more than a poor understanding of the reason that fluids are passing through the bowels rather than through the intestine and gut into the bloodstream and out into the urine.
I also believe that excessive water in the stools of baby's may not be as normal as we all think.
As for the infections in the lungs, could this have been due to poor drainage relating to horizontal rest, which we impose on our offspring without considering whether it is correct or not. Certainly one of the very best methods of assisting respiratory problems is to tilt the mattress affording head up inclined position, ironically the favoured position of a developing baby in the womb. You may have noticed while taking care of your babies that they cried when put flat at times and stopped when you picked them up. This is viewed as baby relaxing next to mother. I suspect that it is more related to the inclined posture while cradled in Mothers arms. In fact, it has been observed that baby relaxes when cradled in another persons arms, negating the previous claim.
You mentioned your heart also? It may interest you to know that the inclined five degree head up tilt lowers the heart rate by ten to 12 beats pre minute and the respiration by four to five breaths per minute and addresses irregular heart beat and fibrillation in addition to a serious reduction in respiratory infections.
Andrew
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Now you are begining to investigate the posiblities the answer is most definately yes!
I wonder if this would help adults with issues with their stools?
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Thanks Andrew that is interesting information!
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Hi Karen
My wife and I conducted some very interesting experiments in bed, sorry not referring to those experiments. One of which was to sleep head up (Inclined bed therapy) and the other was to sleep head down by 5 degrees to the horizontal for several days. I slept upside down for longer, possibly a week can't remember but Jude gave up earlier.
Anyways, we noticed a significant amount of weight loss, which was weird as we had not changed our eating habits.
We also noticed that we both developed diarrhoea. Could have been a tummy bug but Jude recovered and my diarrhoea continued, which also could have been a coincidence, except I did some research and found the late actor Marlon Brando who became morbidly obese was advised to sleep head down in order to speed up his weight loss.
Which brings us back to baby posture.
I suspect that the uptake of fluids from the gut into the bloodstream is gravity dependent and that the renal filtering of solutes to the bladder is also gravity dependent given that urine density diminished on a head down incline also. We both measured urine density in the head down tilt position, flat bed rest and inclined bed rest finding that head down bed rest produced a near water density urine, while head up bedrest produced a significantly higher density urine output. Which with a little help from the medical profession who could easily confirm or disprove this discovery would help to maintain the lives of millions of people who face renal failure while in hospital. I witnessed my own father recover renal function 4 times, each time his kidneys failed he was sleeping flat and each time they recovered he was sleeping on a five degree incline. The incline also brought him out of a coma 3 times but only after a heated battle with nursing staff and doctors, who put my father back flat as soon as my back was turned! When dad was flat, his legs ballooned to massive proportions, the swelling was so bad his pyjama legs were cut right up to the groin. When they eventually acted upon my firm advice his legs went back to normal size indicating that the pressure inside his veins had become less than the pressure in the surrounding tissue sucking the fluids back into the main circulation and out into the bladder. His urine went from thick brown tar to clear yellow urine, clearly seen in the catheter bag.
How many lives are ended by ignorance in hospitals?
Andrew K Fletcher
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This is interesting. I would try the head down position except I can't breath worth a darn with my head down and I wake with a terrible migrain if I have come off my pillow or my body is flat!
So about how high in inches would one raise the feet or the head end if the bed to achieve these positions. I will try the decline with my machine hooked op and see if I am able to breath well during sleep in the position. Problem being my sleep is about 3 to 4 hours which is great compared to a couple months ago!
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Karen sleeping head down with a heart condition is not advisable Head up incline is however and the bed should be elevated at the head end by 6 inches on a 6 feet 3 inch bed or 6.5 inches on a slightly longer bed as I believe American beds are 6 feet 6 inches long.
First two weeks are going to feel a bit strange, you may develop a stiff neck and muscular aches like you have been working out, but you should also develop a general feeling of well-being along with changes in sleep pattern and improvements in body temperature= no more cold hands and feet J
Important, take it easy as you begin to do more exercise, don’t run before you can walk.
As you are a budding scientist in the making it would be great if you could compare your urine before you tilt your bed and after you sleep inclined to determine differences in output. You may find this interesting also. If correct your urine should become clearer but stronger in both colour and odour indicating that more toxins are being filtered out by the kidneys.
If anyone here would also like to repeat this simple experiment we could prove something pretty amazing to the medical profession all that is required is a simple hydrometer from a homebrew shop used to determine the level of alcohol in wine and beer making. A tall glass so that it is deep enough to allow the hydrometer to float and of course some urine.
If say 10 people could do this comparison between flat bed rest and inclined bed rest and those of you who do not have any heart conditions who could test the head down theory on urine density we could collectively put forward a paper confirming the results and get it published. How does this sound to The Naked Scientist Community?
I am going to post this proposed experiment in it's own thread in the hope that it will stimulate some more interest.
Kind regards
Andrew
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Karen sleeping head down with a heart condition is not advisable Head up incline is however and the bed should be elevated at the head end by 6 inches on a 6 feet 3 inch bed or 6.5 inches on a slightly longer bed as I believe American beds are 6 feet 6 inches long.
First two weeks are going to feel a bit strange, you may develop a stiff neck and muscular aches like you have been working out, but you should also develop a general feeling of well-being along with changes in sleep pattern and improvements in body temperature= no more cold hands and feet J
Important, take it easy as you begin to do more exercise, don’t run before you can walk.
As you are a budding scientist in the making it would be great if you could compare your urine before you tilt your bed and after you sleep inclined to determine differences in output. You may find this interesting also. If correct your urine should become clearer but stronger in both colour and odour indicating that more toxins are being filtered out by the kidneys.
If anyone here would also like to repeat this simple experiment we could prove something pretty amazing to the medical profession all that is required is a simple hydrometer from a homebrew shop used to determine the level of alcohol in wine and beer making. A tall glass so that it is deep enough to allow the hydrometer to float and of course some urine.
If say 10 people could do this comparison between flat bed rest and inclined bed rest and those of you who do not have any heart conditions who could test the head down theory on urine density we could collectively put forward a paper confirming the results and get it published. How does this sound to The Naked Scientist Community?
I am going to post this proposed experiment in it's own thread in the hope that it will stimulate some more interest.
Kind regards
Andrew
Ok!! No head down. My bed is 7 and 1/2 feet by 7and 1/2 ft It is a
California King size bed! Are the Calculations different for incline?
As for exercise, I am restricted to some very specific exercises at the moment, until they determine the extent of my problem. I blew my shoulder out today in physical therapy and now have to go back to the bone man and make him do something else.. I have rotator cuff problems and impingement problems from some large arthritis thing grown over my shoulder joint! I am fixing to go have another MRI and I just had a second echo cardiogram and have had about 4 ultra sounds over the last 4 weeks. Actually I think the other day made five and I will meet with two specialists on the 1rst. So I will wait and see what the verdict is before I change my routine. I am having a serious problem with vomiting nausea and such after walking or exercise. Sometimes it's simply there when I breath.. Good thing is we think its a reaction to some medication . we will see. But thanks for the information anyway and I will try it shortly! Thanks Andrew!
So this changes the bowels normal routine on babies as well as adults!..
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Easy calculation then seven inch risers should do the trick. Expect to see improvements within the first 4 weeks of IBT
You are very welcome
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I mostly sleep in an armchair rather than a bed with my head about 80cm higher than my feet, I take Amlodipine to reduce my blood pressure that results in rather swollen legs but would rather have excess fluid in my legs than in my lungs .