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  4. Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
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Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?

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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« on: 22/12/2021 12:52:55 »
I worked out the Planck charge and found that any real value of the Planck constant exponent is consistent. Thus one Planck charge may be equal to any real number. I set:

εa0ħbccGd = 1 Coulomb

to get this result. Leaving out "G" leads to an inconsistency.

Therefore something other than the particle should determine its charge.
« Last Edit: 22/12/2021 12:58:58 by talanum1 »
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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #1 on: 22/12/2021 13:05:02 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 22/12/2021 12:52:55
Thus one Planck charge may be equal to any real number.
No, the Planck Charge is a constant,
 f0fdb5bc85833895077049120a024c78.gif C
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #2 on: 22/12/2021 13:51:03 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 22/12/2021 12:52:55
I worked out the Planck charge and found that any real value of the Planck constant exponent is consistent. Thus one Planck charge may be equal to any real number. I set:

εa0ħbccGd = 1 Coulomb

to get this result. Leaving out "G" leads to an inconsistency.

Therefore something other than the particle should determine its charge.
It looks like you don't understand dimensional analysis.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #3 on: 22/12/2021 15:27:40 »
Quote from: Origin on 22/12/2021 13:05:02
No, the Planck Charge is a constant

What calculation did you use?
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Offline evan_au

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #4 on: 22/12/2021 20:38:24 »
Charge was not one of Planck's original units, but some people have tried to extend his model.

There are a few slightly different definitions shown for the Planck charge.

One is qp = √e0ħc

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units#History_and_definition
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #5 on: 23/12/2021 12:21:53 »
Yes, I made an error for:

ε0ħc,

this does not suppose G = 1,

but if you add G:

ε0ħcG

you get infinitely many values.
« Last Edit: 23/12/2021 12:31:40 by talanum1 »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #6 on: 23/12/2021 13:23:23 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 22/12/2021 13:51:03
It looks like you don't understand dimensional analysis.
Still.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #7 on: 23/12/2021 14:04:01 »
You get a more "natural" number if you multiply by Ap.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #8 on: 24/12/2021 06:58:13 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 23/12/2021 14:04:01
You get a more "natural" number if you multiply by Ap.

What is Ap?
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #9 on: 26/12/2021 18:57:30 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2021 13:23:23
It looks like you don't understand dimensional analysis.
Still.

I know how to calculate it: set:

ε0aħbcdGe = x Coulomb.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #10 on: 26/12/2021 19:43:36 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 26/12/2021 18:57:30
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2021 13:23:23
It looks like you don't understand dimensional analysis.
Still.

I know how to calculate it: set:

ε0aħbcdGe = x Coulomb.
Thank for clarifying that you don't understand it.
Try doing the calculation for kinetic energy.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #11 on: 26/12/2021 23:26:22 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 26/12/2021 18:57:30
Quote from: Bored chemist on 23/12/2021 13:23:23
It looks like you don't understand dimensional analysis.
Still.

I know how to calculate it: set:

ε0aħbcdGe = x Coulomb.

Tell me what all of those symbols stand for (the exponents a, b, d, and e in particular). I would like to check your math.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #12 on: 28/12/2021 16:57:57 »
Set the constants as shown, then calculate a, b, d, e  by equating the exponents of the dimensions in the constant raised to the power a, b, d, e to the corresponding exponent of the dimension of the left side. Then you get 4 equations in 4 variables. a = 1/2 you get from ε0 which must have the exponent of it's C dimension = 2a = 1. Further you get:

(2) d+2b-3a+2e = 0
(3) -d-b+2a-e = 0
(4) b-a+e = 0

you get d = 1/2 and
b+e = 1/2. Just set b+e = 1/2 in (2) and (3). You get (2), (3) and (4) from a knowledge of what units the constants are made up of.

We have that b and e is left as b+e =1/2, so b and e can be chosen as any real numbers so long as their sum is 1/2.
« Last Edit: 28/12/2021 17:07:16 by talanum1 »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #13 on: 28/12/2021 17:23:39 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 28/12/2021 16:57:57
Set the constants as shown, then calculate a, b, d, e  by equating the exponents of the dimensions in the constant raised to the power a, b, d, e to the corresponding exponent of the dimension of the left side. Then you get 4 equations in 4 variables. a = 1/2 you get from ε0 which must have the exponent of it's C dimension = 2a = 1. Further you get:

(2) d+2b-3a+2e = 0
(3) -d-b+2a-e = 0
(4) b-a+e = 0

you get d = 1/2 and
b+e = 1/2. Just set b+e = 1/2 in (2) and (3). You get (2), (3) and (4) from a knowledge of what units the constants are made up of.

We have that b and e is left as b+e =1/2, so b and e can be chosen as any real numbers so long as their sum is 1/2.
As I said; please try doing that with the calculation of kinetic energy.
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #14 on: 28/12/2021 17:37:16 »
What do you set kgm2s-2 equal to?
« Last Edit: 28/12/2021 17:53:02 by talanum1 »
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #15 on: 28/12/2021 18:12:40 »
Setting it equal to  hacbGc leads to a contradiction:

You get:

(1) 2a+b+2c = 2 (m)
(2) -a-b-c = -2 (s)
(3) a+c = 1 (kg)

from (3): c = 1-a...(4)
(4),(1): 2a+b+2-2a = -2 -> b = -4 ... (5)
(2),(4),(5): -a+4-1+a = -2 which is a contradiction.

Please check my mathematics.
« Last Edit: 28/12/2021 18:46:57 by talanum1 »
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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #16 on: 28/12/2021 19:09:47 »
That calculation is wrong. You get:

(1) 2a+b+3c = 2 (m)
(2) -a-b-2c = -2 (s)
(3) a-c = 1.

(3): a = 1+c ... (4)
(4),(1): 2+2c+b+3c = 2 -> 5c+b = 0 ... (5)
(4),(5),(2): -1-c+5c-2c = -2 -> c = -1/2
b = 5/2
a = 1/2

so Ekp = √(c5h1G-1) ~ 108.5 J
« Last Edit: 28/12/2021 19:22:34 by talanum1 »
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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #17 on: 28/12/2021 19:14:50 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 28/12/2021 17:37:16
What do you set kgm2s-2 equal to?
How would you derive the formula for KE from mass and velocity?
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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #18 on: 28/12/2021 21:18:05 »
Quote from: talanum1
b and e can be chosen as any real numbers so long as their sum is 1/2
This is a familiar problem when solving simultaneous equations.

You started with 4 equations in 4 unknowns; this may possibly have a unique solution - but it's not guaranteed
- If some of the equations are linearly related to each other, they don't add any "extra" information
- So one of the equations is redundant
- And instead of a unique solution, you end up with a linear relationship between two variables (a line)
- Or even a linear relationship between 3 variables (a plane)
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Re: Does the Planck Charge have Infinitely Many Values?
« Reply #19 on: 28/12/2021 21:38:04 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 28/12/2021 16:57:57
Set the constants as shown, then calculate a, b, d, e  by equating the exponents of the dimensions in the constant raised to the power a, b, d, e to the corresponding exponent of the dimension of the left side. Then you get 4 equations in 4 variables. a = 1/2 you get from ε0 which must have the exponent of it's C dimension = 2a = 1. Further you get:

(2) d+2b-3a+2e = 0
(3) -d-b+2a-e = 0
(4) b-a+e = 0

you get d = 1/2 and
b+e = 1/2. Just set b+e = 1/2 in (2) and (3). You get (2), (3) and (4) from a knowledge of what units the constants are made up of.

We have that b and e is left as b+e =1/2, so b and e can be chosen as any real numbers so long as their sum is 1/2.

I have to admit that I don't understand what you're trying to say.
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