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  4. What Property Cancels What Property?
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What Property Cancels What Property?

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Offline talanum1 (OP)

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What Property Cancels What Property?
« on: 12/02/2022 19:55:12 »
An Electron and Electron anti-neutrino combines to form a pi-minus. Antimatter cancel matter properties. Just what property of the anti-neutrino cancels what property of the electron that results in more mass than the electron has?
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #1 on: 12/02/2022 20:42:44 »
Quote from: talanum1 on 12/02/2022 19:55:12
Antimatter cancel matter properties.

Only if they are the corresponding antiparticles of each other (a positron and an electron "cancel", but a positron and neutron don't).

Quote from: talanum1 on 12/02/2022 19:55:12
Just what property of the anti-neutrino cancels what property of the electron that results in more mass than the electron has?

None. That would violate conservation of energy. The only way you can get a particle with a higher rest mass out of such a reaction is if the colliding particles have sufficient mass-energy due to moving at high velocity. It isn't going to happen spontaneously.
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Offline puppypower

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #2 on: 15/02/2022 14:37:22 »
Another  point that is often overlooked are the phase properties of matter. The exact same matter at different temperatures and pressures can exhibit entirely different properties. This is the rule for chemical matter. For example, metal alloys with a given composition and crystalline structure, often form at only very specific conditions. All conditions will not allow the same final optimized results. 

In particle accelerators, which is the source of most data connected to the substructures of matter, we cannot control pressure, as easy as temperature. The data we generate is more like an iso-bar over a wide range of temperatures. An isobar is not the full phase diagram of sub-particle matter. The full diagram should show zones at extreme pressure where unique things can occur among the same particles; sub-particle alloys like kryptonite.

For example, water at room temperature and pressure is a liquid with moderate electrical conduction properties. If we move elsewhere on the phase diagram of water, such as at the high temperature and pressure of the earth's core, water becomes a metal that is more that five times denser than liquid water, with excellent electrical conductivity. We would not know this from only the conditions where water is a liquid. Physics has the disadvantage of having to generate stable pressures using materials that cannot go that far for more than an impulse.

If we were in the center of a huge star, where temperature and pressure is extreme and kinetic energy is limited by extreme core density, we may not see any of the current collider data, since the above conditions restricts the same velocity, that particle accelerates depend on. One will not be able to depend on relativistic mass to add something extra. High pressure can also contain things that would otherwise wish or need more space at lower pressure; different phase.

If we look at gravity, which is the main source of universal pressure, some other considerations appears that allows us to learn more about the phase diagram of sub-particle matter. Gravity will cause space-time to contract via GR.  In the center of gravity of a star, distance contracts and time slows the most.

If we now look at the phases of matter, such as those in the core of a star, distances also contract; higher density due to higher pressure, but time goes the opposite way. Time speeds up in terms of what we see from all material/photon transitions. The fusion core will produce gamma rays, even though space-time slows time the most in the core.

There are two separate time vectors,from core to surface and surface to core, one for space-time, with time slowing in the direction of the core and other connected to phases where the transitional times speeds up as we approach the core. Adding two time vectors, via gravitational pressures, has an impact on allowable phases.

Particle collider data does not create these same conditions. It uses SR. However, SR does not cause pressure and phase changes like GR. If it did, the pressures within space-ships would begin to alter all the material phase properties and then collapse. This is not observed. SR uses velocity; d/t, which can impact space-time, while GR has the extra time vector of acceleration; d/t/t. This extra time vector is geared toward material phases. SR lacks the extra t, so it can only impact local space-time but not phases.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #3 on: 15/02/2022 16:42:01 »
Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
sub-particle alloys like kryptonite.

I'm sorry, what?

Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
time vectors

Why do you keep using this term? What does it even mean?
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Offline Origin

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #4 on: 15/02/2022 17:50:29 »
Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
Another  point that is often overlooked are the phase properties of matter.
Yeah, that's frequently overlooked, like when people try to ice skate on lakes in the summer.
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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #5 on: 16/02/2022 01:38:53 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 15/02/2022 16:42:01
Why do you keep using this term? What does it even mean?
Unfortunately pp won't usually engage in a discussion, he likes to use this forum as his own personal pseudoscience blog.  His whole post is just made up garbage, but pointing that out is just a waste of time since he won't actually discuss his goofy ideas.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #6 on: 16/02/2022 08:52:51 »
Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
In particle accelerators, which is the source of most data connected to the substructures of matter, we cannot control pressure, as easy as temperature.
Pressure is a measure of the number of particles in a given volume.
It is perfectly well defined and controllable in an accelerator.

As usual, PuppyPower is talking hogwash.
I can't understand why he hasn't been kicked out for trolling.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #7 on: 16/02/2022 08:54:43 »
Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
and kinetic energy is limited by extreme core density,
No, it's not.
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Offline puppypower

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #8 on: 25/02/2022 15:25:00 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 15/02/2022 16:42:01
Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
sub-particle alloys like kryptonite.

I'm sorry, what?

Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
time vectors

Why do you keep using this term? What does it even mean?

Time moves to the future, therefore the flow of time has a direction; vector to the future. One day or one second are scalars of time. The misunderstanding about the nature of time stems from measuring time with clocks. Clocks repeat; 12 midnight occurs each day. This practical tool sort of models time like they behave as waves and energy.

Time has more in common with entropy. The second law states that the entropy of the universe has to increase; entropy moves in one direction; more and more entropy, and does not cycle like energy; conservation of energy. The same is true of the flow of time; future direction. I cannot cycle my time on earth and become a baby again like a clock at midnight. This is prevented by the second law and the vector of time to the future. Clocks are a human construct that do not reflect the true nature of time. It is more designed to optimize the flow of scalar time, as the vector of time  moves to the future, since time is money.

If you look at the force of gravity; F=ma, where a = acceleration= d/t/t. Force due to gravity is one part mass, one part distance and two parts time. The force of gravity can contract space-time, with the greatest contraction in the core or the center of gravity. 

If we now we look at impact of the force of gravity on matter and energy, the core of a star, for example, will be the zone where we see the fastest time expressions or the highest frequencies; fusion and gamma rays. These two measured expressions of time, go in the opposite directions; slower and faster. This is where the concept of a time vector is useful.  Within the larger flow of time to the future, we also have two smaller time vectors that can tweak that flow. GR can slow the flow of time to the future, but it cannot reverse the larger vector.

Special relativity, on the other hand, is based on velocity which is d/t. Here we only have one time vector, with space-time contraction a function of velocity. There is no second time vector like we see with the force of gravity and acceleration. The net affect is there is no direct impact on material and energy phases and frequencies. Space-ship materials do not form new phases of matter, like we see in the core of any large mass body. It has no second time vector so the flow of time is only based on relativity and changes in space-time.

With SR we do get relativistic mass. However this is not the same as rest mass, since it does not create pressure. It is a single time vector version of mass. If it was the same as rest mass; two time vectors, it would cause gravity to appear and space-ships would collapse and their material will phase change.

As far as the science fiction of kryptonite, gravitational pressures; 2nd time vector, can cause new phases of matter to appear. With enough gravitational pressure, sub particle alloys can form, which  can be frozen in place, like we do with metals and ceramics. For example, a neutron star cannot support the quark phases we call protons, electrons and neutrons in the same proportions we see at low earth pressures. The sub-particles tend to align primarily as neutrons in neutron stars. To get kryptonite, we need even more pressure, followed by a quick cold pressure quench, to lock it into place.

Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/02/2022 08:52:51
Quote from: puppypower on 15/02/2022 14:37:22
In particle accelerators, which is the source of most data connected to the substructures of matter, we cannot control pressure, as easy as temperature.
Pressure is a measure of the number of particles in a given volume.
It is perfectly well defined and controllable in an accelerator.

As usual, PuppyPower is talking hogwash.
I can't understand why he hasn't been kicked out for trolling.

I was talking about gravitational pressures, which require mass. Pressure generated by alternate means; explosion/collision/mechanical, all lack the first time vector connected to gravity and  modeled via GR. Applied pressure will contain the second time vector, where frequencies of the contained materials will increase. However, without the two time vectors, of gravity, the process will have different amounts of time potential. The phases will be different.

An impulse of extreme pressure, such as generated by particle accelerators, will not allow sufficient time for things to align where they need to be, to create in a new stable phase. We will not get complete phase changes, but rather we will get transitional phases, with energy built into them, due to lack of time to optimize the phase. If we hammer steel, we can alter the crystal structure, locally, but not in a way that is optimized. Instead we will add stored energy to the steel. Hammers spots will rust first, unless we heat treat the metal.

With gravity, its first time vector, by slowing core time, while materials are speeding up frequency, allows more time to adjust relative to surface references. I used to be a materials specialists, way back when. Time dependency was very important to materials and their properties. 

For example, silly putty is like a moldable claylike substance. However, if a tension force is imposed too fast, the clay will not stretch but will behave like a solid, that will shear along a single plane perpendicular to the force vector.  If we go slow, the molecules have time to slide and move past each other to get a clay like behavior. But if we go too fast the tension propagates faster than the molecules can slide past each other; shear plane.

Silly putty, although feeling like soft putty in your fingers, will bounce like a Superball; extreme bounce. In this case, the pressure impulse is faster than the molecules can slide past each other to behave like a putty phase. Instead the molecules remain in place, causing the action and reaction of the applied force, to reflect the force almost perfectly; extreme bounce. Not all pressure is created equal. The star applies pressure over time to get putty phases, while particle accelerators get the shear and bounce; Super ball phases.

Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing the lack of a full phase diagram for sub particle matter. This is easy to do in theory, but it is very difficult to do in practice, since it needs extreme gravity for the extra time vector found in nature.


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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #9 on: 25/02/2022 17:58:35 »
Quote from: puppypower on 25/02/2022 15:25:00
Time moves to the future, therefore the flow of time has a direction; vector to the future.
No matter how many times you make this idiotic statement it will still be false.  Time is not a vector.  The future is not a direction.
Won't bother reading the rest of your post; the first line is garbage so why waste the time?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What Property Cancels What Property?
« Reply #10 on: 25/02/2022 18:24:12 »
Quote from: puppypower on 25/02/2022 15:25:00
time vector
Time isn't a vector.
Nor is gravity.
Quote from: puppypower on 25/02/2022 15:25:00
With gravity, its first time vector, by slowing core time, while materials are speeding up frequency,
What are you on?
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