[acsinuk (OP)]

Normal people have the right to treatment of their illnesses and once the patient understands their medical condition; are able to agree to start the cure process prescribed by their doctors.
Now If they refuse treatment then the NHS will need to send them home or they will be bed blocking.

What happens if an Octogenarian who is no longer working or actively supporting the nation economy falls and breaks a hip with no-one at home and decides to refuse treatment?
Investigation reveals that their partner died recently and all their friends are dead; and confirms that they live alone with no home help or carer meaning returning them home is impractical..
So can that Octogenarian demand the right to end their life now or within a week and die with dignity either at home with a 3 weeks sleeping pills or in a hospice?
How can the NHS assist Octogenarian to die with dignity without appearing to be biased in any legal way??

[alancalverd]

Assisted dignified voluntary suicide is illegal.
Undignified murder via the Liverpool Pathway is legal.
Ask your local religious parasite (almost any denomination will do) and Member of Parliament why.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Thanks Alan,
Terminally ill can ask to Die with Dignity here which is accepted but still debatable as shown in attached link https://euthanasiadebate.org.nz/
Summed up quickly; what is required is that the hospital legal admin need to take the Octogenarian [Octys] request seriously and discuss the request with the Octys normal GP and closest family members.
If all theses persons agree that the Die with Dignity request be granted then a label should be attached to the Octys bed  DWD agreed Expiry date [ 7 days later] with any other signs like DNR etc
The Octys can at any time change their mind and be treated or sent home with 20 pills, a gallon of water and some nappies.
Most Octys will be thankful for opportunity to die with dignity and swallow the sleeping draught thus releasing the blocked bed for other patients.
A happy ending to their life without having to go through the pain/suffering of stiff aching bones, wet beds and lonely misery.   

[alancalverd]

What business is it of the family members? If I want to kill myself, I don't need anyone's agreement or permission as long as I am physically capable of doing it. Why does society only discriminate against the disabled?

[vhfpmr]

Assisted dignified voluntary suicide is illegal.
Undignified murder via the Liverpool Pathway is legal.
Ask your local religious parasite (almost any denomination will do) and Member of Parliament why.

In the case of MPs, because they fear there won't be enough volunteers.

It used to make me really angry that assisted suicide is illegal, but having discovered the hard way that the NHS are not the heroes they're made out to be, I'm a lot more ambivolent, and tend to lean the other way. It's not in the NHS's job description to clean up society, and yet if Prof. Pullicino's estimates are anything like accurate, they're disposing of two or three times as many as Aktion T4.

[acsinuk (OP)]

Alan, I entirely agree it is not for the family to interfere but the hospital legal team will need to inform the nearest relative or next of kin.
Come to think of it, if the GP or NHS have a copy of last will and testament of the Octy they may even find a codicil to the effect.
If I reach the age of 80 and suffer a fall or stroke which seriously incapacitates me to the extent that I cannot look after myself at home then I would request the option to be allowed to Die with Dignity within 7 days rather than being forced to suffer further humiliations.
In that the will has been witnessed by two independent neighbours or friends would certainly allay any fears of fowl play by the NHS or GP.

[alancalverd]

the hospital legal team will need to inform the nearest relative or next of kin.

No. Only if asked to, and after the act. It helps keep costs down if they can persuade the next of kin to remove the body but if not, and if the deceased has made no other arrangements,  it becomes the liability of the local authority - more paperwork.

[acsinuk (OP)]

A tricky situation.  If the hospital keeping the bed blocking patient in their ward it might make sense to check with the Octy whether he would still prefer to Die with Dignity as declared in the Will codicil.  If this is confirmed then it would be in the NHS interest to give the final medication to the Octy for self administration when the 7 days are up.  But what is going to be entered on the Death Certificate.  I would suggest "Died with Dignity of Old Age"..

[alancalverd]

Asking could be construed as coercion, even with a legal representative present. Fortunately the law isn't usually subject to sudden change, so the relevant Act of Parliament can be hedged about with a 6-month lead-in time, allowing almost everyone the option to sign up for assisted suicide whilst reasonably healthy, and possibly a minimum of a further 6 months between signing and the earliest permissible active intervention.  Once that is settled, no problem recording that the NHS has done what the patient wanted, not what some disgusting parliamentary parasite gained perverted pleasure by inflicting on him.

The life insurance industry will want a say in the legislation. Their profits come from gambling, not certainty, but life assurance profits won't be much affected and if the policy is investment-linked, manner of death is less important than the state of the stock market at the time of death. Annuity providers would be delighted.

[Bored chemist]

murder via the Liverpool Pathway is legal.

If you don't know what a word means, in general, you shouldn't use it.
So, the way you should have used the word "murder" is something like this.
What does "murder" mean?
And then we could have told you that it's about illegally killing someone.
And then you would have seen that if the Liverpool pathway is legal (which it was) then it can't be murder.
So you would have been able to avoid saying something which is obviously wrong.

The thing about saying stuff that's wrong while trying to support a claim is that it makes it look like you couldn't support the point honestly.

Whatever the pros and cons of the pathway, it is no longer in use.
Why mention it?

[alancalverd]

I don't think there is a process for legally killing anyone in the UK except when commanded as an act of war or proven selfdefence. All other deliberate killing must therefore be illegal, and at present that includes assisting in a suicide.

[vhfpmr]

[LCP] is no longer in use.

Whether it is or not is beside the point, the NHS murder patients just for being 'difficult' if it suits them. Kane Gorny at Tooting was one, and nurse Pauline Spilka gave evidence of another at the Gosport Inquiry.

[Bored chemist]

the NHS murder patients just for being 'difficult'

Do you have evidence of that?
Not a story from 30 years ago or an observation of incompetence, but actual murder happening today?

[acsinuk (OP)]

Octogenarians, who are sure to die sometime are not being murdered but simply asking for a choice to end their life with dignity at home rather than suffering imprisonment in a council run care home at huge expense to both rate and tax payers..