Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God?One reasonable possibility is that He doesn't exist.
I'm at a crossroad. Help me through logical answers.This is a bit more specific than the general question, but you could have a look at:
First, determine what you mean by God. Then decide what you would consider proof of existence. Now look for that proof. Or, if you want to be scientific, look for disproof.
So far, I haven't come across anyone whose definition and chosen proof have stood up to scrutiny.
God the creator has similarities with Big BangAnd one noteworthy difference.
I would define god as being the universeOK,
God the creator has similarities with Big BangAnd one noteworthy difference.
The big bang has evidence.I would define god as being the universeOK,
If we can redefine words in order to make things the way we want them, I propose to redefine "God" too.
God is a pair of whole numbers A and B with no common factor such that A^2 divided by B^2 is exactly two.
The nice thing about this definition is that it allows me to prove that God does not exist
For example
https://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/proof_square_root_2_irrational.php
The problem is it's obviously a laughable definition, but... that doesn't seem to be a problem here
Yes, the big bang claims to have evidence,No, it actually has evidence.
but it does not constitute incontrovertible proofHow fortunate, then, that nobody said it was.
The creation of all the matter in the universe in fractions of a second in some hot big bang, is less plausible than Hoyles ideas happening more slowly over an eternity, with no beginning of time.No.
The genesis jackanory creation story taking 7 days could equally cite as evidence, the universe as it stands todayNot really.
The universe exists, therefore Pantheist god exists.Least useful tautology since "brexit means brexit".
proving the existence of god depends on the definition.And redefining it as a means to answer the question is pointless.
proving the existence of god depends on the definition.And redefining it as a means to answer the question is pointless.
If I choose a definition that makes God exist then He exists.
If I choose a definition that makes Him not exist, then He doesn't exist.
So what?
Neither option actually tells us anything.
One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.No.
One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.
Please define your understanding of god, that enables you to answer No.One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.No.
Does the Roman empire still exert an influence today via its religion?Philistines, Romans, the Inquisition, Communism, Fascism, even the British Empire....all came and went. We're still here. And, if modern-day antisemites are to be believed, we're still in charge of everything. The answer seems to be in having a faith that doesn't seek to convert or conquer others, or even argue very loudly for our precepts. It would be nice to be ignored for a few thousand years, but as Topol pointed out "If you look at a map, Israel is about the size of Yorkshire. If you look at a newspaper, it's bigger than Russia."
The only real miracle is that we haven't destroyed ourselves yet.
When we think the way the Universe works; the fundamental constants; the way Science works. There must be a God.
God might be defined as the quantum vacuum perhaps from which via baryogenesis everything in the universe may have appeared.Or God might be defined as a cucumber.
God might be defined as the quantum vacuum perhaps from which via baryogenesis everything in the universe may have appeared.Or God might be defined as a cucumber.
But that too, would be silly.
When we think the way the Universe works; the fundamental constants; the way Science works. There must be a God.
There is a number of mysterious things in our life such as life itself, if these things are unknown, why do we refer them to myths?
Why not God prove his existence and save our efforts if he is merciful?
Why is life the only singularity ever detected?Life is not a singularity, so your question makes no sense.
There is a number of mysterious things in our life such as life itself, if these things are unknown, why do we refer them to myths?yes i think so
Why not God prove his existence and save our efforts if he is merciful?
And something has gone wrongHow could anything go wrong in the creation of an omnipotent, omniscient being who set the specification in the first place, and has the unmitigated power to put it right?
When we think the way the Universe works; the fundamental constants; the way Science works. There must be a God.
After the people had dominion things went wrong.The real problem is that God saw fit to put the serpent in the garden.
You are implying the laws of Physics, which is how God makes things work, whether it be an electron orbiting the nuclues of an atom or the roots taking up mineral ions.When we think the way the Universe works; the fundamental constants; the way Science works. There must be a God.
Why? We ask why is that constant just so and this constant just so in order for us to exist? Why shouldn't it be just so? The sky looks blue. Why is the atmosphere constituted from molecules that scatter light in such a way that the sky looks blue? If it wasn't just so the sky may be red. So what? Such arguments are nonsense and show the immaturity of our species.
.why would you think that they could concept God?"concept" is not a verb.
God created apes and manDo you understand that man is an ape?
to gain the ability to always free willing choose... and in English?
The Spirit entity in the serpent was self employedDo you work for ATOS?
An agreement was probablyThere's nothing which inspires confidence like a "God" that "probably" does something.
The Spirit entity in the serpent was self employed and not placed there.I challenge you to demonstrate that your assertion can be parsed in English.
Adam could have taken authority and gained a nature of obedience and reverence with it's endearing.Ditto.
He would have had dominion over the whole planet.If the fairy tale is right, he had already been granted that.
I just checked and see you are correct.God created apes and manDo you understand that man is an ape?
The first humans had to use free will. They had to be exposed to evil, while free willing, to free willingly choose obedience and stay in the light of life. Rather than be forced or protected from the knowledge of it. Over time, human nature would have become resistant to making evil choices.to gain the ability to always free willing choose... and in English?
Satan opposes God and does not ever work for Him only against Him. He also hates men and women made in his image and likeness.The Spirit entity in the serpent was self employedDo you work for ATOS?
Satan opposes God and does not ever work for Him only against Him. He also hates men and women made in his image and likeness.Then why did God create Satan?
I would say God knew there would eventually be a rebellion. So he chose from the options one that would be finite, least successful and final. Finally finished. Satan was created as a servant, to serve God in the light, but he changed his mind, the angel led a rebellion seeking to have God's throne and power rather than worshipping him. They were expelled and became the angels of death.Satan opposes God and does not ever work for Him only against Him. He also hates men and women made in his image and likeness.Then why did God create Satan?
I would say God knew there would eventually be a rebellion.In the absence of any evil, what could provoke a rebellion?
Satan was created as a servant, to serve God in the light, but he changed his mind,Didn't God see that coming?
The angel was extremely intelligent, and proud. He went from worshipping God for his greatness to wanting to have it. Immense pride, jealousy, ambition, something like adultery, taking the worship of the rebellious angels... God saw it coming and chose the best of the options.I would say God knew there would eventually be a rebellion.In the absence of any evil, what could provoke a rebellion?Satan was created as a servant, to serve God in the light, but he changed his mind,Didn't God see that coming?
Did He choose to do nothing to stop it, and thus create all that is bad in the world?
It seems that Satan is more powerful than God.
Perhaps I should worship him.
Do you believe that only christian god exists? What do you think about gods of other religions? Can they coexist?The angel was extremely intelligent, and proud. He went from worshipping God for his greatness to wanting to have it. Immense pride, jealousy, ambition, something like adultery, taking the worship of the rebellious angels... God saw it coming and chose the best of the options.I would say God knew there would eventually be a rebellion.In the absence of any evil, what could provoke a rebellion?Satan was created as a servant, to serve God in the light, but he changed his mind,Didn't God see that coming?
Did He choose to do nothing to stop it, and thus create all that is bad in the world?
It seems that Satan is more powerful than God.
Perhaps I should worship him.
Satan and his cohorts were expelled, much weaker than God. Not as intelligent and weak at creativity, the angel of death imitates God or remembers works of old.
Some people worship money, some pleasure... but whatever it is, it is what seems to be worth the most to you that you see and feel is the source of good in your life.
Other Christians hold that God has a hidden purpose for evil.
To me the latter are half truths.How do you determine which part is true, while the other is false?
The parts that resemble the faith checked by Moses in God's presence. The parts that do not give powers to define to the angels of death.To me the latter are half truths.How do you determine which part is true, while the other is false?
The parts that resemble the faith checked by Moses in God's presence. The parts that do not give powers to define to the angels of death.How do you know moses?
The parts that resemble the faith checked by Moses in God's presence. The parts that do not give powers to define to the angels of death.How do you know moses?
How do you know that the stories about him are true?
Moses is impressed in historyReally?
I had a vision of Moses.Your hallucinations don't constitute evidence.
I have not studied archaeology to site names of hand, but at first I think of Simcha Jacobovici and I doubt the Hebrew University would say he was not real. From what I have heard the debate against Moses and the Exodus is not the greater one.Moses is impressed in historyReally?
Can you show me a contemporary independent reference to show that he even existed?I had a vision of Moses.Your hallucinations don't constitute evidence.
Have you spoken to your doctor about them?
Doctors would mostly ignore these things.It is often wise to take your doctor's advice.
Britain's legal system was influenced by Moses over the centuries,Via time travel?
It is hard to believe in the pillar of fire, the mighty victories,I don't...
The vision I had was an operating table vision just coming out of, Gamazel anesthetic.So, your response to my reminder that hallucinations are not evidence is to say that it was a drug induced hallucination.
Moses in wikipedia is said to possible have existed as more than a mythical figure. It elaborates and speculates. And though it does not mention English law, it does mention that of the old USA at foundational times. And mentions Swedish historian Hugo Valentin as considering Moses the first to establish the rights of man.Doctors would mostly ignore these things.It is often wise to take your doctor's advice.Britain's legal system was influenced by Moses over the centuries,Via time travel?
Moses was said to have lived long before the Romans came to these islands (bringing their legal system with them).
At the time, there was no formal legal system in Britain.
So, even if Moses ever lived he was a long time dead before anyone could influence the british legal system.It is hard to believe in the pillar of fire, the mighty victories,I don't...
"The modern scholarly consensus is that the figure of Moses is a mythical figure"
from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Historicity
Do you understand that a man who did not exist can not have influenced anything?I am sure I cannot persuade you to change your mind, and you cannot change mine. We are set in past decisions. For me, I am sure the Bible is evidence he existed, and that it is not a book of legends. Scientists here seem to believe God exists only one in five, from a past poll. You would be an atheist then. Others but which are scholars with biases I mentioned would be the Hebrew University and another article I found was a Jew who graduated from Harvard and disagrees with the trends in amongst those scholars.
People who thought he existed may well have had an influence, but that is not evidence that he was actually real.
I am sure I cannot persuade you to change your mind, and you cannot change mine.I will change my mind if you provide evidence. You refuse to do so.
Is it fun to make kids cry in order to make em grow up?If people didn't tell lies about Sant and the Tooth fairy, they would save the kids from the tears when they find out
Why? How? When? Do you believe science can find the answers? What about death? We know that death is not necessary for to multiply life, so why is there death?I think that death is/was necessary to remind us that our current system is not perfect (yet), hence need to change and restart to make progress. It's necessary due to finite available resources. This should be obvious if we learned about genetic algorithm.
You say " obviously Moses was the authority"Moses' works of literature and military tactics were intellectual and from an educated man, poetry, mighty victories. He left a succession, and records of events that many modern people won't believe because of the supernatural content. He lived so long ago, in primitive times that records of history were not well done as later with King David and later still with the 5th century bc Greeks.
Why can't you understand that a myth of Moses would do that just as well as a real one?
It can't be "obvious" because it isn't true.
It can't be true because Moses isn't real.I am sure I cannot persuade you to change your mind, and you cannot change mine.I will change my mind if you provide evidence. You refuse to do so.
So the real question is "What are you doing on a science web page?"
You clearly are not interested in science.
If I were to look for evidence in the natural, it would be examples Hebrews DNA testing. Are they a distinct race?Race isn't a well defined concept in science.
I tend to take Exodus as a real account.That's your opinion; had you somehow mistaken it for evidence?
It takes the same amount of faith, either way.Not really.
And I am open minded to think Moses and Bible accounts are real.You are not open minded at all.
There is actual evidence for the big bang and (whether you like this or not) there is none for God.The matter of probability does not apply to some matters. Probability cannot apply to the question of God's existence. Probability is for maths and to some extent physics. It is not transcendent. It is a subject within the universe, to things in the universe. A parallel universe could be quite different and without logic, from the same God.
Also, you seem to brush aside the fact that, no matter how complex (and thus improbable) the universe is, God must be more complex and- by the same argument- more improbable.And I am open minded to think Moses and Bible accounts are real.You are not open minded at all.
You refuse to consider the evidence which shows that they are substantially made up.
We know who rewrote them, where and when.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
https://www.coursera.org/huji"The Hebrew University was founded in 1918 "
The Hebrews had always maintained their language in Israel. Their own TANACH. The Jews mixed in Europe always had their own distinct from Trinitarian school of thought, theology and have their own contributions to archaeology.https://www.coursera.org/huji"The Hebrew University was founded in 1918 "
Come on...
So why post a link to a university that's younger than my granny?The Hebrews had always maintained their language in Israel. Their own TANACH. The Jews mixed in Europe always had their own distinct from Trinitarian school of thought, theology and have their own contributions to archaeology.https://www.coursera.org/huji"The Hebrew University was founded in 1918 "
Come on...
The Hebrews had always maintained their language in Israel. Their own TANACH.It's a book.
The Hebrews had always maintained their language in Israel. Their own TANACH.It's a book.
So is Lord of the rings.
It's still a book.The TANACH is non fiction. People lived by it, wrote it, fulfilled it... It has a consistency, such as a lead up to a Messiah figure, that the Jews don't accept. We have to agree to disagree, because the writings of the Bible are about a God, you don't believe exists but some other scientists do and a lot of other people, like Lawyers and accountants...
It's still a book.The TANACH is non fiction. People lived by it, wrote it, fulfilled it... It has a consistency, such as a lead up to a Messiah figure, that the Jews don't accept. We have to agree to disagree, because the writings of the Bible are about a God, you don't believe exists but some other scientists do and a lot of other people, like Lawyers and accountants...
It's still a book.
Do you realise that I don't care very much about the church- Catholic or otherwise.What about such things as dates in King David's life and works as compared with archaeology that matches. Say Kings and tablet records in surrounding lands sites?
So it doesn't matter to me that one old book is different from another old book.
Neither of them is evidence- for the same reason that the Lord of the rings is not evidence of hobbits and elves.
If one postulates that the Prime Cause is an intelligent entity then that explains the drive of evolution towards intelligence.And, since almost all life is not on an evolutionary path to intelligence, we can reject the postulate.
If one postulates that the Prime Cause is an intelligent entity then that explains the drive of evolution towards intelligence.And, since almost all life is not on an evolutionary path to intelligence, we can reject the postulate.
You can apply the scientific method easily to the question.I don't think God will give us a portion of his presence to test. Knowing and trusting are alternate to each other. Imagine a baby who will not trust dad, learn from dad, infer from dad unless it is proven under tests. Fast paced love and friendship cannot take place. You can't be filled with all knowledge if you do not trust the holy one when you recognize him. All the info is not trusted as well. All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.
Suggest one unique, predictive, testable property or function of your god. Then test it.
What about Schrodingers cat in the box?It's irrelevant.
The motor for the flagellum on certain bacteria. ... the various cells must replicate and divide in a startling path in order to arrive at the end result.Bacteria are single cells; The flagellum is part of, and produced by, each bacterium. It is not produced by cell division.
First, your definition of "intelligence".If you think the word is badly defined, you shouldn't have used it.
And define "almost all".OK, Most of the world's species are things like bacteria, plants, nematodes etc whose lifestyle is such that using resources on any sensible form of intelligence would be counter-productive.
Not "WE can reject" but "I [you] can reject". You are an opinion of one. You bring a blunderbuss to a debate of the highest order.
You can apply the scientific method easily to the question.I don't think God will give us a portion of his presence to test. Knowing and trusting are alternate to each other. Imagine a baby who will not trust dad, learn from dad, infer from dad unless it is proven under tests. Fast paced love and friendship cannot take place. You can't be filled with all knowledge if you do not trust the holy one when you recognize him. All the info is not trusted as well. All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.
Suggest one unique, predictive, testable property or function of your god. Then test it.
You can have evidence in prophecy, and you can experience God's presence, drink it in, but that is after trusting usually. After an near death experience, many people return to life knowing there is an afterlife and spirit and soul and other entities like God, angels and demons. But they can't prove it to anyone else.
I began living in a farm cottage which I realized had a bad spirit causing daily problems.
All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.Perhaps I'll ask about some unsolved problems in mathematics and get 1 million dollar of easy money.
All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.Perhaps I'll ask about some unsolved problems in mathematics and get 1 million dollar of easy money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems
What if I pledge to donate all of that money to charities to save starving children in developing countries?All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.Perhaps I'll ask about some unsolved problems in mathematics and get 1 million dollar of easy money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems
God and the psychic world operate according to a set of rules. Much like the real world does. Getting rich is selfish and your request will not be granted. A prayer group for a deserving person is much more likely to succeed in modest ways.
There are huge numbers of frauds who operate using people's greed. It is one way to tell who they are. Another example is tales of direct conversations and visits to God such as told by Wendy Alec. It just does not happen although people really want to believe it does. People want to hear stories confirming the supernatural and they lose their skepticism.
I had no control over the psychic events that happened to me. They were few and random but after a long time (when I was in my sixties) I could see a pattern of learning. That is the science part. Observing and making deductions that are not contradictory or illogical.
What if I pledge to donate all of that money to charities to save starving children in developing countries?All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.Perhaps I'll ask about some unsolved problems in mathematics and get 1 million dollar of easy money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems
God and the psychic world operate according to a set of rules. Much like the real world does. Getting rich is selfish and your request will not be granted. A prayer group for a deserving person is much more likely to succeed in modest ways.
There are huge numbers of frauds who operate using people's greed. It is one way to tell who they are. Another example is tales of direct conversations and visits to God such as told by Wendy Alec. It just does not happen although people really want to believe it does. People want to hear stories confirming the supernatural and they lose their skepticism.
I had no control over the psychic events that happened to me. They were few and random but after a long time (when I was in my sixties) I could see a pattern of learning. That is the science part. Observing and making deductions that are not contradictory or illogical.
Isn't that the sort of thing Carl Jung experienced before he devised modern psychology? Paranormal psychology.I began living in a farm cottage which I realized had a bad spirit causing daily problems.
On a science site?
Really?
It seems the people who have positive NDEs want to be closer to people than money and spend it on them and work closely with needy people.All knowledge and wisdom and prophecy is invalid and even if you see an angel you don't know what to make of it.Perhaps I'll ask about some unsolved problems in mathematics and get 1 million dollar of easy money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems
Isn't that the sort of thing Carl Jung experienced before he devised modern psychology? Paranormal psychology.I began living in a farm cottage which I realized had a bad spirit causing daily problems.
On a science site?
Really?
A prayer group for a deserving person is much more likely to succeed in modest ways.
It comes down to your motivation. If you are trying to test the existence of God, that is not allowed. If you want to get fame and recognition, that again is a selfish act. God wants people to strive to do good - not fill out an application form. God only intervenes for small personal requests that are easy to do and difficult to prove his/her existence, or the intervention is to guide the destiny of humankind.You can start a new religion since your doctrines are significantly different than any religion that I know.
These last interventions can different forms. One is that he can do nothing to prevent a pandemic like the Black Plague. Another is that he can stop a pandemic from spreading at a time it would direct humankind in the wrong direction. He is going to do nothing to stop the pending die-off which has already started but people are ignoring it and will ignore it until too late.
Most big interventions look natural. The extinction of the dinosaurs is an example.
Note that my hypothesis of God being part of the virtual reality means that God has limitations as does Satan. The Infinite Intelligence can allow God to do just about anything, and know just about anything, so my hypothesis does not interfere with how religions view God. It does explain the limitations of God despite his enormous ability to be powerful and all knowing. It explains why evil exists in the form of Satan.
I experienced the Infinite Intelligence when I was in my twenties. My studies of various religions recently made me aware of the Hindu concept of Brahman which is similar.
I also experienced being judged after death. I learned there is no argument. All is known. Once I was sent back because I was lacking achievement (either good or bad). The other time I was terminated permanently (but woke the next morning because it was a lesson). The lesson here is that souls are not necessarily eternal. Having experienced death twice in my dreams (painful sword in the neck and sword in the gut), I guess that re-incarnation of souls is possible. Re-incarnation makes sense. Souls evolve as species evolve. Otherwise there would be enormous number of souls just hanging around. Even with reincarnation, people should follow the teachings of Jesus and not look down upon a suffering person as one being taught Karma.
The souls direct the growing spirit to guide the growing physical. One does not come back in a lesser form. This is needed for the formation of the brain which cannot follow genetic code to form the structures needed. Simply too complex. The soul does the fine tuning and detail, and does some subtle influence throughout life. That quiet voice or that intuition at times.
Suffering is thus temporary. Even the death of children or babies means the soul gets another chance.
[snip]
You can start a new religion since your doctrines are significantly different than any religion that I know.
That's also true for currently existing religions. They picked parts of older religion's believes and their contemporary cultures and then combined to form new belief systems.[snip]
You can start a new religion since your doctrines are significantly different than any religion that I know.
Nothing that I have said has not been said by others at some time or another. I said that all religions have some truth. They should be more tolerant of each other.
That's also true for currently existing religions. They picked parts of older religion's believes and their contemporary cultures and then combined to form new belief systems.[snip]
You can start a new religion since your doctrines are significantly different than any religion that I know.
Nothing that I have said has not been said by others at some time or another. I said that all religions have some truth. They should be more tolerant of each other.
Hi there. Very interesting question. I would like to have some proof of God existing. But be careful with such questions. Some god believers can be angry )
The problem with proof, is conviction. What would you do if you found proof or was given proof?
What would you think of yourself? Would you change and Worship? Would all your family and friends? What if you were aware of the truth and still envied this world? Many have.
What if you showed this proof to the world? How would the world react? Proof and truth are denied all the time, it's a human only character. How many would ignore the spirit of the truth and become fanatical of obeying it.....their version of the truth. Knowing humans.....there will be versions of this proof.
When the PROOF comes, a sword comes with it.
The problem with proof, is conviction. What would you do if you found proof or was given proof?God is transcendent to the universe. His presences fills and surpasses the universe and multiverse. Black holes do not drag or crush him, stars do not burn him, foul things do not stain him... he is, they are inert.
What would you think of yourself? Would you change and Worship? Would all your family and friends? What if you were aware of the truth and still envied this world? Many have.
What if you showed this proof to the world? How would the world react? Proof and truth are denied all the time, it's a human only character. How many would ignore the spirit of the truth and become fanatical of obeying it.....their version of the truth. Knowing humans.....there will be versions of this proof.
When the PROOF comes, a sword comes with it.
There is nothing in science that denies the existence of God. What denies the existence of God is the philosophical idea that things happen by chance.
The laws of Newton would be broken every time god acted.
I reckon God is allowing a slow thinning of the population to give humankind time to adjust to a new reality. The slow thinning is cell phone radiation degrading immune systems, increasing infertility and leading to a lower life expectancy.Except that phones don't cause those things.
I reckon God is allowing a slow thinning of the population to give humankind time to adjust to a new reality. The slow thinning is cell phone radiation degrading immune systems, increasing infertility and leading to a lower life expectancy.Except that phones don't cause those things.
Can science prove God exists?No. Something that is important to understand is that science is not about proving things. Science has never actually proved any theory in fact. It's just not geared to do anything like that. Science is about observing nature and coming up with theories that can be used to make predictions about the phenomena it was designed to observe, i.e. to "explain." Religion is much worse at this, infinitely worse in fact. No religion on Earlh can prove God exists. All religions postulate that God exists and not one of them have a good reason for doing so. Does God exist? Maybe. Keep seeking - That's the best thing to do.
Quite right about observations and theory. Wrong about religion. Religions that have endured and matured are the ones that have theories based on the observations of prophets. The bad theories such as the Roman and Norse good failed. My observations are spiritual in nature. You cannot use machines and devices to get repeatable observations of a communication from God. When enough people have experiences with a common thread it filters out the noise of mistake and fraud. My observations explain the Prime Cause, the apparent Intelligent Design, and the mysterious happenings involving psychic events. Try to find a contradiction in my theory. Science has no answer at all and simply says it does not know. People trash religions because of the problems in the rituals and because they need to be updated. That does not mean that the basic tenets of an Intelligent and Good powerful Spirit known as Good is false. Most religions accept the concept of a soul, and of Spirits with power such as Jesus or the Hindu gods. Unbreakable laws of physics cannot explain my experiences.Can science prove God exists?No. Something that is important to understand is that science is not about proving things. Science has never actually proved any theory in fact. It's just not geared to do anything like that. Science is about observing nature and coming up with theories that can be used to make predictions about the phenomena it was designed to observe, i.e. to "explain." Religion is much worse at this, infinitely worse in fact. No religion on Earlh can prove God exists. All religions postulate that God exists and not one of them have a good reason for doing so. Does God exist? Maybe. Keep seeking - That's the best thing to do.
In order for the thinning to take place, people must not realize the danger. So Bored Chemist is helping God by telling others that cell phones are quite safe and that those who claim otherwise are nutters. Good job - keep going.I'm quoting the evidence. The evidence says that phones don't do what you bear false witness about.
You cannot use machines and devices to get repeatable observations of a communication from God.You rather miss the vital point; you can't use anything else to do that either.
The smartest (those who realize the dangers)I look forward to a plot of "some measure of smart" vs " belief that phones are causing significant harm".
My observations explain the Prime Cause, the apparent Intelligent Design, and the mysterious happenings involving psychic events.No, they don't.
Try to find a contradiction in my theory.You don't have a theory- look up the meaning of teh word.
Most religions accept the concept of a soul,Most of them tell you that the local equivalent of "a man in a frock should tell you what to do with your willy".
Unbreakable laws of physics cannot explain my experiences.Maybe they can. but you wouldn't know that, because you don't understand the laws (and you refuse to learn).
Trying to use my cell phone. Good should be God in two places. I see that the auto edit changed it here as well.Anyone would think that God's not on your side.
Clive - I disagree strongly. But I don't wish to discuss religion. I just wanted to respond to the question posed and put my two cents in. I never would have done so had I not had a strong grasp of world religions. I studied them throughout my lifetime. Especially in college and my won self study. Read the Bible twice cover to cover very carefully. Will repeat a few more times.
That's all I have to say on your response.
At some point in the far distant past the earth did not exist. That means that the bible, or for that matter any other religious text, did not exist.
For millions of years humans did not exist. Many other species did. Language as we know it took an awfully long time to develop. It preceded a written version of language by quite a long time.
So which religious text is the 'right' one? It would be arrogant of Christians to think it is theirs. Or even hebrews.
The affairs of man started with many gods. Usually based upon constellations. The unknown in other words. Mankind has a huge imagination with tiny insight.
And here we are. Debating with our tiny insight.
Can science prove the existence of God? (If one does an analysis of data to sort out noise similar to the analyzing of data from radio telescopes then science can pronounce that there is a decent possibility of a God).So, the Word of God is only available to those with money and technology.
Can science prove the existence of God? (If one does an analysis of data to sort out noise similar to the analyzing of data from radio telescopes then science can pronounce that there is a decent possibility of a God).So, the Word of God is only available to those with money and technology.
That's a pretty sh**y way for Him to behave, isn't it?
No fear of the afterlife, eh?With thousands of sects to choose from, it's odds on that any given religion is the wrong one.
Take it from someone with experience. Although I experienced the nice section of the afterlife, IThere are lots of words for people who make claims like that.
Many of the poor and the dispossessed benefit most from the words of God.Wouldn't it make more sense for God to simply ensure that they were not "the poor and the dispossessed".
Your illogical comments never cease to amaze me.My posting was logical.
Can science prove the existence of God? (If one does an analysis of data to sort out noise similar to the analyzing of data from radio telescopes then science can pronounce that there is a decent possibility of a God).What kind of data can increase the possibility of gods? What kind of data can decrease the possibility of gods?
Can science prove the existence of God? (If one does an analysis of data to sort out noise similar to the analyzing of data from radio telescopes then science can pronounce that there is a decent possibility of a God).What kind of data can increase the possibility of gods? What kind of data can decrease the possibility of gods?
Do they tend to guess an answer if they are unsure?LOL.
Do they tend to guess an answer if they are unsure?LOL.
On last week's podcast, Chris mentioned a sibling show, Naked Reflections.
Each week, it takes a science story from Naked Scientists, and has a look at the implications for society.
They try to look at the topic from a variety of viewpoints (including religious viewpoints).
If anything, it might help us see things from another person's viewpoint.
See: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/podcasts/naked-reflections
OK, and you guessed about how we might look for evidence of a God.Do they tend to guess an answer if they are unsure?LOL.
Clearly you have not experienced different cultures. Until fairly recently, tribal mores in South Africa dictated that one could not say "No" to a superior. Asked if he could drive a bulldozer a man replied "Yes" - you can imagine the damage he caused before the supervisor found out the man had not a clue and never even sat in one.
Which is why I stress "intelligent design" of the filters.
BTW - In my opinion, you would never get past the first pass of screening out those who shoot from the lip before engaging the brain. Not being nasty - just my assessment to give you an example you might relate to.
Clearly you have not experienced different cultures.That's another example of you getting it wrong because you are one of those who " guess an answer if they are unsure".
People want to hear stories confirming the supernatural and they lose their skepticism.And that breaks the irony meter.
When one has a filtered list then one needs to explain how such events can be "manufactured" by the brain. I do not believe that under normal everyday circumstances that a spontaneous hallucination occurs. What science is looking for is "glitches" in the fabric of reality.IMO, the purpose of science is to build a model of objective reality as accurate and precise as possible. It will help us (conscious agents) to make plans and decisions to effectively and efficiently achieve our ultimate/terminal goal and setting up iinstrumental goals.
The problem is having the study done properly and scientifically in a way that does not presuppose an outcome. Far too many scientific studies do this. It is easy to see the ones that are just done to get the grant money where students take supposedly random polls with so much irrelevant data.Do you have reference to that assertion? It hink it's related to a problem called Goodhart's Curse which I mentioned here. https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=75380.msg590937#msg590937
One can do a scientific analysis of various aspects of the supernatural and check for inconsistencies and contradictions. One God or multiple Gods? One God with helper Gods/spirits? Good versus evil - is it evolution or damaged personalities or can people respond impulsively to a demonic suggestion? Reincarnation - logical when compared to billions of souls existing in a do-nothing state?I'll add which God question there.
And so on.
Clearly you have not experienced different cultures.That's another example of you getting it wrong because you are one of those who " guess an answer if they are unsure".People want to hear stories confirming the supernatural and they lose their skepticism.And that breaks the irony meter.
When one has a filtered list then one needs to explain how such events can be "manufactured" by the brain. I do not believe that under normal everyday circumstances that a spontaneous hallucination occurs. What science is looking for is "glitches" in the fabric of reality.IMO, the purpose of science is to build a model of objective reality as accurate and precise as possible. It will help us (conscious agents) to make plans and decisions to effectively and efficiently achieve our ultimate/terminal goal and setting up iinstrumental goals.
The problem is having the study done properly and scientifically in a way that does not presuppose an outcome. Far too many scientific studies do this. It is easy to see the ones that are just done to get the grant money where students take supposedly random polls with so much irrelevant data.Do you have reference to that assertion? It hink it's related to a problem called Goodhart's Curse which I mentioned here. https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=75380.msg590937#msg590937
One can do a scientific analysis of various aspects of the supernatural and check for inconsistencies and contradictions. One God or multiple Gods? One God with helper Gods/spirits? Good versus evil - is it evolution or damaged personalities or can people respond impulsively to a demonic suggestion? Reincarnation - logical when compared to billions of souls existing in a do-nothing state?I'll add which God question there.
And so on.
Regarding the reincarnation, does it count other life forms lurking in other planets in other galaxies?
People want to hear stories confirming the supernatural and they lose their skepticism.
Irony? Why?Because you don't recognise yourself.
One prays and the one true God (or the helper spirits) respond.
People want to hear stories confirming the supernatural and they lose their skepticism.Irony? Why?Because you don't recognise yourself.
You want a supernatural belief- hence your references to God etc.
And you lost your skepticism- hence you believe the hogwash about "phones cause cancer".
But you say it as it fit only happens to other people.One prays and the one true God (or the helper spirits) respond.
And that's why hurricanes never hit populated areas.
IIRC Satan was originally God's favorite, hence his alias as Lucifer, but he had ideas above his station and was deposed.
Beats me why anyone bothers with this bullshit, when it is obvious that the universe was created by Zeus raping a swan, which doesn't explain the turtles but clearly makes more sense than any Triune Mystery.
As many theists have suggested that the existence of gods is necessary for us to have morality, how can believing in gods help us making moral decisions such us in trolley problem and its variations? These problems are getting more concerns in the increasing usage of artificial intelligence such as in self driving cars. Can those cars make correct moral decisions without believing in gods?
Those who strongly believe there is a spiritual consequence are strongly disinclined to do evil.Unless, of course, that consequence is just telling your story to a man in a little box and being told that his invisible friend forgives you.
The argument that there are people who do not need religion to act morally is arguing exceptions to the basic principle.We are hardly an " exception".
Those who strongly believe there is a spiritual consequence are strongly disinclined to do evil. A logical fact that I have experienced over and over.So your huge experience of ISIS rapes, beatings and beheadings has been positive? ***** for Trip Adviser, even though the menu lacked pork and beer?
Those who strongly believe there is a spiritual consequence are strongly disinclined to do evil. A logical fact that I have experienced over and over.So your huge experience of ISIS rapes, beatings and beheadings has been positive? ***** for Trip Adviser, even though the menu lacked pork and beer?
Those who strongly believe there is a spiritual consequence are strongly disinclined to do evil.Unless, of course, that consequence is just telling your story to a man in a little box and being told that his invisible friend forgives you.
Apparently, a murderer who went to the confessional will get into heaven, but I won't because I act in the way He designed me to, but which He disapproves of.
Seems a strange way to run a Universe.The argument that there are people who do not need religion to act morally is arguing exceptions to the basic principle.We are hardly an " exception".
In some countries atheism is the majority.
In the UK atheists are a majority in some age groups.
You seem to be trying to say that only religion gets it right.
The evidence shows otherwise.
When I hear of exceptional people doing exceptional good I can almost rely on them being faithful believers.
A homeless woman here had a 26 kg tumor.
Another area in which I am of the opinion that studies tend to prove the desired outcome with questions and polls that are badly set up and badly interpreted.
Will this comment be removed by the moderators also?I doubt it.
Cause and effect? Or just coincidence?Or conspiracy theory.
Will this comment be removed by the moderators also?I doubt it.Cause and effect? Or just coincidence?Or conspiracy theory.
Remember my prediction. I said God told me that the overpopulation would be solved with a massive die-off.And, in fact, He hasn't.
I said God told me that the overpopulation would be solved with a massive die-off.How else?
I am somewhat precognitive and clairprescient which means I know things that I can only know with the help of spirit.How do we distinguish this from "somewhat delusional", given the lack of any objective evidence?
On 2 April 2016 I posted on a forum.Where?
Yes. He will do the right things. The outcome for the country will be very good.LOL
Science can approve the contrary, hah.
Remember my prediction. I said God told me that the overpopulation would be solved with a massive die-off.And, in fact, He hasn't.
So the evidence shows a zero success rate for your prediction so far.I said God told me that the overpopulation would be solved with a massive die-off.How else?
The alternative is essentially that we stop having sex.
That's... not very likely so, congratulations! You have predicted something that's damned near inevitable.I am somewhat precognitive and clairprescient which means I know things that I can only know with the help of spirit.How do we distinguish this from "somewhat delusional", given the lack of any objective evidence?On 2 April 2016 I posted on a forum.Where?
It hardly matters.
Do you know about this well documented scam?
Imagine I find 1024 fora that will let you post pretty much anything.
That's not hard.
Imagine I post on half of them that the stock market will go up, and on the other half I "predict" that it will go down over the course of a week.
I'm going to be right for half of them.
I forget about the ones where I'm wrong and concentrate on the 512 where I got it right. I post on half the ones that are left that I predict that the stock market will go up and on the other half that it will go down.
Now I have 256 sites where I got it right two times out of two.
I can carry on doing this a few times.
256 sites where I got it right 3 times in a row (odds about 1 in 8)
128 where I scored 4 out of 4 (16: 1 odds)
64 where I got 5 (32:1)
32 with 6 out of 6 (at odds of 64:1)
16 where I got 7 predictions right out of 7- That's pretty impressive.
The odds are better than 100:1
And now I advertise that anyone can have my prediction for next week- for a fee.
And the people who see my advert can check that I really did get all 7 predictions right.
Well, you just claim to have predicted 1 50:50 shot. Trump won,
Do you want a medal?Yes. He will do the right things. The outcome for the country will be very good.LOL
https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx
So my question to you is: If, as I claim, I posted one and only one prediction about Trump how amazing is the accuracy?It's a roughly 50:50 split. He would win, or Hillary would.
The only other public prediction is the coming die-off.Which didn't happen.
Is he responsible for the political divide,He is doing his best to stoke it.
You seem to clam that the pundits were saying it was impossible for Trump to win.
That's absurd.So my question to you is: If, as I claim, I posted one and only one prediction about Trump how amazing is the accuracy?It's a roughly 50:50 split. He would win, or Hillary would.The only other public prediction is the coming die-off.Which didn't happen.
So, your success rate's pretty poor.
If I was that bad at predicting stuff, I'd keep quiet about it.
What is it about the future that you do not understand? I say it will rain next week and you say I am wrong because "it did not happen"
50:50 odds??? How on earth do you arrive at that?You seem to have missed the fact that it was so close that she got more votes.
Try estimating the odds of a random layout doing that!!! And getting it right!OK,
Not at all.You seem to clam that the pundits were saying it was impossible for Trump to win.
That's absurd.So my question to you is: If, as I claim, I posted one and only one prediction about Trump how amazing is the accuracy?It's a roughly 50:50 split. He would win, or Hillary would.The only other public prediction is the coming die-off.Which didn't happen.
So, your success rate's pretty poor.
If I was that bad at predicting stuff, I'd keep quiet about it.
Here we go again. Your lack of any grasp of facts and science continues to amaze me.
50:50 odds??? How on earth do you arrive at that? Why did the bookmakers and the pundits rate his chances at less than 1:100?
One book maker was so sure that Hillary would win they preemptively paid out - only to lose even more when Trump won.
What is it about the future that you do not understand? I say it will rain next week and you say I am wrong because "it did not happen"???
Sigh. Either you did not follow the US election of 2016, or your memory is atrocious. My prediction was detailed and accurate and what you fail to understand is that the Tarot cards were laying out on 5 tries to confirm over and over the outline of what would happen. Try estimating the odds of a random layout doing that!!! And getting it right!
Denial, denial, denial. How frightened are you that there just MIGHT be a God and the supernatural?
Try estimating the odds of a random layout doing that!!! And getting it right!OK,
The odds of 5 hits from 5 on reading tarot cards is about 50:50 in this case.
Since you can interpret the cards to mean exactly what you want, it doesn't actually matter what card you draw.
So, you start by picking a position (Trump wins- that's about 50:50) and then you restate it 5 times.
Repeatedly restating the same thing doesn't change the odds.Not at all.You seem to clam that the pundits were saying it was impossible for Trump to win.
That's absurd.So my question to you is: If, as I claim, I posted one and only one prediction about Trump how amazing is the accuracy?It's a roughly 50:50 split. He would win, or Hillary would.The only other public prediction is the coming die-off.Which didn't happen.
So, your success rate's pretty poor.
If I was that bad at predicting stuff, I'd keep quiet about it.
Here we go again. Your lack of any grasp of facts and science continues to amaze me.
50:50 odds??? How on earth do you arrive at that? Why did the bookmakers and the pundits rate his chances at less than 1:100?
One book maker was so sure that Hillary would win they preemptively paid out - only to lose even more when Trump won.
What is it about the future that you do not understand? I say it will rain next week and you say I am wrong because "it did not happen"???
Sigh. Either you did not follow the US election of 2016, or your memory is atrocious. My prediction was detailed and accurate and what you fail to understand is that the Tarot cards were laying out on 5 tries to confirm over and over the outline of what would happen. Try estimating the odds of a random layout doing that!!! And getting it right!
Denial, denial, denial. How frightened are you that there just MIGHT be a God and the supernatural?
For the same reason I'm not frightened of unicorns.
There's no evidence for them.
I asked if a worker was stealing from us because of his behavior.So, there was reasonable grounds to suspect he was a thief.
I then discovered that things were missing in rooms only he had been given unsupervised access to.And you found that he stole stuff.
Page of Pentacles (reversed) - This indicates rebelliousness and being surrounded by people in opposition to his ideas.So, every single politician then.
The episode mentions that real estate mogul and millionaire Donald Trump became president, and caused a budget crisis that Lisa inherits.It was in any case blindingly obvious in 2006 because the Democrats didn't have a slogan ("I'm a Woman" sold quite a few copies for Peggy Lee but doesn't stand out as an economic or social policy objective). Come to think of it, they still don't, just like the Labour Party.
1. Will Trump win the nomination?
Eight of Cups (reversed) – groper of many breasts, but they will come back to haunt him.
Ace of Wands – belief in magic, not science.
Four of Swords (reversed) – This is a card of conflict. It appears after the ace, and indicate what might follow. The most applicable one is social unrest. Agreed. Pity the rest of the world had no vote.
2. Will Trump become President?
The Hierophant - means being ruled by the conventional. To be accepted by one’s peers (yes - but what disgusting peers) and socially acceptable (no). Always wash your hands after meeting him. And count your fingers, too.
Ace of Cups - groper.
Ace of Wands (reversed) - Setbacks and delays. The interpretation is that Trump has to win the acceptance of the majority of voters. He didn't. Hillary had a clear majority of the popular vote.
Will the current outbreak in China become a deadly global outbreak:1. Ace of swords up - Yes. With global discord and panic2. Ace of cups down - This is saying that the virus will be beaten and die down.3. Ace of pentacles up - This saying it will mutate and come back for another round.
2. Ace of cups down - This is saying that the virus will be beaten and die down.That's not a prediction; it's an observation.
The claim of psychic gifts can only get great financial benefit to fraudsters and charlatans. Those who truly have a gift cannot and do not except to a modest income for support.
In other words, you can't provide numerical evidence in support of a "gift", and the only people who can make money out of it are those who don't actually possess it.
(snip)
(snip)
Furthermore you are claiming that Tarot cards shuffled at random have the capacity to predict. If the prediction depends on your interpretation, any set of random numbers would do because it is actually your gift that is doing the job, since the person who shuffles them (the "mug") clearly doesn't have the gift, or he wouldn't be as asking for your help.
I think you are skating on logically thin ice here.
(snip)
(snip)
I have no interest in horse racing but once visited Epsom out of curiosity. I had no money with which to bet, but I predicted the winner of 7 successive races. Scary. I've never been back.
Could you accurately predict the sequence of ten die rolls?
By the rules of spirit. They will not cooperate with test.So we agree that prayer is a waste of time. Almost a denial of your fundamental belief of non-cooperation.
What, if anything, is the difference between
"Any attempt to prove that I can do this will fail"
and
" I can't do this (but suffer from the delusion that I can)"?
By the rules of spirit. They will not cooperate with test.So we agree that prayer is a waste of time. Almost a denial of your fundamental belief of non-cooperation.
But you said "they" never reveal the rules, for fear of their existence being proven - or was it disproven?\
Anyway, to return the the question. Science is about investigating the disprovable. So if you want science to test the existence of something, you have to state a testable quality of that something, and how you would know if it had failed that test.
So the simple answer is no, science isn't about proof, only disproof. And the other simple answer is yes, if you write down all the testable properties of your god, we can test them until you are satisfied that there is a single entity that possesses them - but it will take a very long time to do so!
On the other hand we can turn to pure mathematical logic to demonstrate that there cannot be a functional omnipotent and omniscient deity that created the universe. There being no other reason to suspect the existence of a god, Occam says we should dismiss the possibility.
You miss entirely the premise that unprovable prayer works.And you have missed the premise that that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
To make a long story short, there are perfectly good classical physical explanations for our experimental results.OK, show me the classical explanation of this (and the more recent, better precision versions)
You miss entirely the premise that unprovable prayer works.And you have missed the premise that that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
The difference is that the premise about dismissal of unevenced stuff is actually true.
This "rule" is not mine. It has been known for centuries.Somebody made up that rule to take advantage from the gullibles.
By admitting that it is unprovable, you have admitted that you don't know if it really works. Not knowing how it works does not invalidate it, but knowing that it doesn't make a difference is an evidence that it's useless.By the rules of spirit. They will not cooperate with test.So we agree that prayer is a waste of time. Almost a denial of your fundamental belief of non-cooperation.
You miss entirely the premise that unprovable prayer works. Just because one does not know how it works does not invalidate it. A hundred years ago many things were mysterious because one did not know how they worked. They still worked.
The difference between your evidence and my evidence is that yours is mechanical and limited and mine is personal and experienced by individuals.Do you understand what
Your state as a confirmed absolute that I have no evidence simply because you reject my evidence.You have not put forward any evidence for me to reject.
You insist that the physical universe IS absolutely physical and that there is not possibility of it being a virtual reality.
By admitting that it is unprovable, you have admitted that you don't know if it really works. Not knowing how it works does not invalidate it, but knowing that it doesn't make a difference is an evidence that it's useless.By the rules of spirit. They will not cooperate with test.So we agree that prayer is a waste of time. Almost a denial of your fundamental belief of non-cooperation.
You miss entirely the premise that unprovable prayer works. Just because one does not know how it works does not invalidate it. A hundred years ago many things were mysterious because one did not know how they worked. They still worked.
I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.
The difference between your evidence and my evidence is that yours is mechanical and limited and mine is personal and experienced by individuals.Do you understand what
Anecdote <> evidence
means?Your state as a confirmed absolute that I have no evidence simply because you reject my evidence.You have not put forward any evidence for me to reject.
You have told me stories.
Do you understand the difference?You insist that the physical universe IS absolutely physical and that there is not possibility of it being a virtual reality.
If you think that's true then show me where I said it.
(spoiler alert; I didn't)
Is psychology a science or not?Well, you refuse to accept that the cause of your problem is psychological.
Do you know of a meter that can measure thoughts and feelings tSeveral
s to the extent they can pick up where an intuition is coming from.You made that condition up, and it makes no sense.
You are so locked onto anecdote, anecdote, anecdoteI'm not the one whose whole "point" depends on pretending that an anecdote is proof.
Then only swayed to serious consideration that there was a God when I was 60.
This "rule" is not mine. It has been known for centuries.Somebody made up that rule to take advantage from the gullibles.
The interesting part is that I always believed in ghosts, mental telepathy and predicting the future. That belief never wavered because I had so much personal evidence from the time I was a small child.I think the relevant passage is 1 Corinthians 13:11
Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed.
I always believed in ghosts, mental telepathy and predicting the future.
I had to point out to a Christian that the Bible says that communication with God is very difficult and indirect.
They all know they cannot be tested because they all try testing themselves. I did.So, did you pass or fail?
Once more. The huge number of fakes discourages people who are natural skeptics but it does not disprove the truth of the rule.The whole point of "the rule" is that it makes it impossible to prove it either way.
The interesting part is that I always believed in ghosts, mental telepathy and predicting the future. That belief never wavered because I had so much personal evidence from the time I was a small child.I think the relevant passage is 1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(snip)They all know they cannot be tested because they all try testing themselves. I did.So, did you pass or fail?
Once more. The huge number of fakes discourages people who are natural skeptics but it does not disprove the truth of the rule.The whole point of "the rule" is that it makes it impossible to prove it either way.
A damned good rhetorical device, but bugger all actual use.
I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.
The rule is very very useful. It allows those who know the rules to immediately dismiss claims by the charlatans.It also allows me to dismiss claims by you- since you are making those claims to bolster your own personal standing.
I failed because of the rule.So, you tried to predict things, and you failed.
I am surprized you even ask.I guess you now see why I asked.
You dismiss the events as told to you because you start by assuming they have no factual basis.No, (for the millionth time f telling you), I dismiss them because there is no supporting evidence.
These observations deal with the hard problem of consciousness and just how faulty a human brain can be.It's good to see we agree on something.
I am constantly amazed that more cars do not hit trees that jump in front of them.
And yet you have no problem pointing to "glitches" I have which only apparently occur with regard to the supernatural.No
I knew immediately it was a fake.So do I- and I don't feel the need to pretend I can read tarot cards...
Did you study the BibleI never studied it but it is daft to think that anyone who grows up in the UK doesn't have an idea what it says about stuff. And, from there's it's a quick Google job to find the actual quote.
You refuse to concede even one minor point for fear your whole hypothesisDo you remember that I pointed out that you were lying about that?
You insist that the physical universe IS absolutely physical and that there is not possibility of it being a virtual reality.
If you think that's true then show me where I said it.
(spoiler alert; I didn't)
Spirit and religion are probably among the most abused areas of humankind. And that rule is tailor made as a Get out of Jail Card. Uri Geller - total fake. Made so much money that he could keep his detractors quiet with law suits. Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed. Preacher who sits in God's lap and has fireside chats. Total fake who has fooled many and become rich. I had to point out to a Christian that the Bible says that communication with God is very difficult and indirect.How do you distinguish between the fake from the real ones?
No. The rule is made up by those who have gifts. They all know they cannot be tested because they all try testing themselves. I did. I have spoken to a number of people I believe to have a gift. They all had stories of testing themselves. The charlatans abuse the rules. Do you think they have a great afterlife? No. They do not believe in spirit or they would not abuse it.
Once more. The huge number of fakes discourages people who are natural skeptics but it does not disprove the truth of the rule.
I had another thought. We keep thinking God is in total control and omni-all. As part of the game he has an adversary - namely Satan or the Devil. So while God gets to grant a few prayers, so does the Devil. In this case, there may have been a balancing of wishes where God granted the pray but Satan got to bomb a Cathedral.Does your God have a name? How do you know it?
I visited a psychic and asked her if she knows whether she gets informed by the good spirits or the bad spirits. She said she had never thought about it. She just gave answers that came to her. An evil person may get information from an evil spirit.
When Trump prays for a success in a military attack, and the target is praying for American disaster, who gets their prayers answered? The Devil wants as much conflict and destruction as possible (Shiva the God of Destruction) and God tries to mitigate it and have people strive to better themselves. It is under strife and conflict that one see the good in people come to the fore. So to the evil in others.
I rather think that the good citizens of Coventry were simultaneously praying not to be bombed. But it seems your god works in mysterious ways, and not for the benefit of humanity. A proper god would not have created congenital syphilis, for example.I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.
Hmmm. Interesting. Seems there was a price to pay - or at least make the man think carefully about what he prays for.
They say be careful what you wish for - you may just get it.
Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed.So your god did not create the universe out of nothing. Or inseminate Mary, or resurrect his onlybegotten son. Nor, in his earthly form, turn water into wine. Or part the water for Moses.. Bummer.
Easy to spot because blatant breaking of the laws of physics is not allowed.So your god did not create the universe out of nothing. Or inseminate Mary, or resurrect his onlybegotten son. Nor, in his earthly form, turn water into wine. Or part the water for Moses.. Bummer.
(snip)
Does your God have a name? How do you know it?
Who gives the name of satan or devil? Did he choose his own names? Is he the same being as Shiva?
I rather think that the good citizens of Coventry were simultaneously praying not to be bombed. But it seems your god works in mysterious ways, and not for the benefit of humanity. A proper god would not have created congenital syphilis, for example.I do recall one anecdote of prayer working. A visiting preacher told the congregation (I used to sing in church choirs!) how he had prayed that his sick daughter could die in peace. His prayer was answered and just for one night no bombs fell on north London - the Luftwaffe destroyed Coventry Cathedral instead.
Hmmm. Interesting. Seems there was a price to pay - or at least make the man think carefully about what he prays for.
They say be careful what you wish for - you may just get it.
STDs keep people a little less promiscuous.So, you don't know what congenital means...
. It is reliable and predictable.If that was true, you could prove it.
STDs keep people a little less promiscuous.So, you don't know what congenital means.... It is reliable and predictable.If that was true, you could prove it.
(snip).. It is reliable and predictable.If that was true, you could prove it.
If the spirits are willing to predict the outcome of elections, that actually could be used to statistically determine its accuracy. Predict the outcomes of many elections over time then tally up the accuracy of the results. I doesn't have to just be presidents.
No doubt Satan willRather a lot of doubt really.
They will not be able to make definitive judgements that I am doing anything but telling the truth.That's just the sort of thing where using fallacies undermines you.
There are consequences to actions and consequences to sin. STDs are one consequence of promiscuity and sometimes the consequence can affect many people.Still missing the point of the word "congenital".
No doubt Satan willRather a lot of doubt really.
The logical fallacy you employed there is called "begging the question".
Do you understand that by saying things that are clearly illogical, you undermine any attempts you make to put your views across?They will not be able to make definitive judgements that I am doing anything but telling the truth.That's just the sort of thing where using fallacies undermines you.
You know that it's fundamentally dishonest to use lies to make a point, but you use them.
There are consequences to actions and consequences to sin. STDs are one consequence of promiscuity and sometimes the consequence can affect many people.Still missing the point of the word "congenital".
You are spending too much time on the "Logical Fallacy" site.Not, it seems as much time as you. You keep on digging them out and trying to use them.
Trotting out cliches does not stimulate debate.Especially when the cliches are fallacies.
There are times one has to avoid the blunt truth in order not to offend people and those are the times I have to be careful with my words so I do not deceive (a knowing falsehood or lie).And yet, unless you are too dim to recognise that's what you are doing, you keep on doing exactly that.
(snip)
And I see you are still missing the point, so I will try to spell it out for you.
IT'S NOT THE CHILD'S FAULT.
You have a God that punishes the child for something the child didn't do. That's a s***y way to behave.
Let's face it, given the circumstances, it's likely the father doesn't even know that the child exists. He's unlikely to be put off by the "risk" of suffering by someone he will never meet.
Water into wine. One could suppose that such a miracle was allowed. Although if a rich admirer anonymously donated a lot of wine and food, it could have been left for people to gossip about a miracle. Even if a fully true miracle - where is the proof that laws of physics were broken.No carbon atoms in water. You should have known that.
Water into wine. One could suppose that such a miracle was allowed. Although if a rich admirer anonymously donated a lot of wine and food, it could have been left for people to gossip about a miracle. Even if a fully true miracle - where is the proof that laws of physics were broken.No carbon atoms in water. You should have known that.
Congenital syphilis is not a punishment - a fetus can do no wrong so it can't be punished. It is a burden inflicted by god's living creation (a bacterium) on an innocent child. God is despicable, and drivelling on about the sins of the father being visited on the child just makes it more so - that's how filthy old perverts persuade teenagers to kill "unbelievers".
Please don't pretend to tell me what I think. Such arrogance is the mark of a Believer and is unbecoming to a gentleman.
Humans have evolved as particularly collaborative and social animals. You might "overcome your programming" and live a solitary, disconnected life, but for most of us, society is fun and collaboration is more effective than adiabatic self-sufficiency. Empathy drives the social lubricant.
As Dawkins pointed out, the only thing all religions have in common is that they teach you to despise all the others. And here we have the purest example: a theist having the unmitigated gall to tell another human what he thinks about his friends and family, simply because he doesn't share your bizarre superstition.
If you want to be taken seriously, acquire some intellectual humility and scepticism.
My God is not omni- all but is limitedSo, not actually God then.
Please don't pretend to tell me what I think. Such arrogance is the mark of a Believer and is unbecoming to a gentleman.
Humans have evolved as particularly collaborative and social animals. You might "overcome your programming" and live a solitary, disconnected life, but for most of us, society is fun and collaboration is more effective than adiabatic self-sufficiency. Empathy drives the social lubricant.
As Dawkins pointed out, the only thing all religions have in common is that they teach you to despise all the others. And here we have the purest example: a theist having the unmitigated gall to tell another human what he thinks about his friends and family, simply because he doesn't share your bizarre superstition.
If you want to be taken seriously, acquire some intellectual humility and scepticism.
My God is not omni- all but is limitedSo, not actually God then.
Why are you cluttering up someone else's thread about God with your personal nonsensical opinions?
Yes - God
But not the Ultimate Creator.Yeah, sure, OK.
Why get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling moleculesFeeling is an emergent property.
How does this assist in the international and religious cooperation that I have been saying is needed to reduce GLOBAL population without war?It is in the essential nature of nations and religions to despise each other!
And that is the weakness of atheism. It cannot explain the emergence of intelligence from nothing.Time was that it couldn't explain thunder, microbial disease, or why the earth isn't flat. But the atheist starting position has proved a lot more fruitful than "God did it for reasons we cannot understand, so we must sacrifice virgins to make the sun rise" or whatever anti-intellectual and dehumanising filth your local priest happened to be selling. So on the basis of proven performance to date, I suspect the atheist stance will get us a lot closer to understanding the origin of the universe than anything based on sky fairies. I don't have a problem with the principle of spontaneous ex nihilo creation but I'm not sure how to verify it.
No name I know of for any of the gods/devils or angels/demons. Just know that is it highly likely they exist and can be dealt with. It may be that a Hindu has a separate reality to a Christian but I doubt it. Some small aspects could differ but when compared there will be not differences.How do you determine that your god is the correct one?
If one prays for war and destruction then Satan by any name is similar to Shiva. No need for names except to direct a prayer or to discuss a common element. I prefer addressing God directly as "God". Not my lord or any other title. Hardly ever address Jesus directly but have on the odd occasion.
Some people who see spirit see different ones. Gabriel might be one. I do not see spirits (only one when I was a teenager but I accept I might have seen shadows in the middle of the night).
When I was a teenager a man got run over and killed at about midnight. His spirit came down the passage with heavy thumping feet and then heavy breathing into my bedroom. Excited at first, I chickened out and closed my eyes and stopped breathing while under the sheets. I had heard of a bloody apparition visiting my mother's sick friend.
Yes - GodBut not the Ultimate Creator.Yeah, sure, OK.Why get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling moleculesFeeling is an emergent property.
Your failure to understand that may, in part, explain why you spout so much nonsense.
No name I know of for any of the gods/devils or angels/demons. Just know that is it highly likely they exist and can be dealt with. It may be that a Hindu has a separate reality to a Christian but I doubt it. Some small aspects could differ but when compared there will be not differences.How do you determine that your god is the correct one?
If one prays for war and destruction then Satan by any name is similar to Shiva. No need for names except to direct a prayer or to discuss a common element. I prefer addressing God directly as "God". Not my lord or any other title. Hardly ever address Jesus directly but have on the odd occasion.
Some people who see spirit see different ones. Gabriel might be one. I do not see spirits (only one when I was a teenager but I accept I might have seen shadows in the middle of the night).
When I was a teenager a man got run over and killed at about midnight. His spirit came down the passage with heavy thumping feet and then heavy breathing into my bedroom. Excited at first, I chickened out and closed my eyes and stopped breathing while under the sheets. I had heard of a bloody apparition visiting my mother's sick friend.
How do you determine that many other gods are the wrong ones?
(snip)
It is in the essential nature of nations and religions to despise each other!
(snip)
One reason I enjoy science is that it transcends the boundaries erected by political and religious scum. The rainbow I see results from the same physics as the rainbow you see. But some old pervert tells me that the rainbow created by Allah is better than the one created by Jehova, so I have to kill you for believing otherwise and thus insulting Allah.
You are emoting based on false factsSays the man who posted this earlier
Why get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling molecules with no meaning to life
Tell me you can find the genetic sequence and alter it so that the deer runs into the tree because it thinks it is an escape route.
Why get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling molecules with no meaning to life because it is simply an accident, why get upset?
You are emoting based on false factsSays the man who posted this earlierWhy get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling molecules with no meaning to life
Why get upset about suffering of people and children? Surely, in your view, they and you are just a collection of unfeeling molecules with no meaning to life because it is simply an accident, why get upset?
This is a bizarre argument. Assuming that atheists are not p-zombies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie), they would be well aware that they have the capacity to suffer. As such, they should assume that other humans can suffer too. Even if individual molecules can't feel, human beings obviously can.
Tell me you can find the genetic sequence and alter it so that the deer runs into the tree because it thinks it is an escape route.
OK, how about altering the brain chemistry of mice so that they are no longer repelled by the smell of cat urine (which is normally an innate response)?
Is that close enough to the idea of getting deer to run into trees?
If not, please explain the essential difference.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130918181110.htm
cat's fear centerThat's essentially the same as a "don't run into trees" centre.
. I have lots of personal proofi.e. not "proof".
There is only one God who is good and does good. If one listens to the prophets and wise men whose teachings have endured you will find the common thread of Do Right and Do Good with the added Respect God. If you pray to any God (defined as a Higher Power) your prayer will get listened to. Whether it gets action is not predictable because we cannot know where the Game is taking us and are not privy to a full set of the rules.How do we know that when something good happens to an Indian citizen, it's the work of the same god as when something good happens to a Pakistani citizen?
Just how many Gods are there? Not many, once one eliminates the gods of mythology. The Hindu and Buddhist gods one sees in literature and the temple have attributes so praying to a God of Fertility is generally a good thing and it means that the One God will hear the prayer. A Hindu professor told me that Hinduism has One God only, and the various minor gods are just aspects of the One God. See how one can update a religion so as to be consistent with others?Many people think that Yahweh is a god of mythology.
If one prays to Jesus or a Saint they are intermediaries and ultimately the One God hears.Can't a real god listen to the prayer directly?
In a wild new experiment conducted on monkeys, scientists discovered that a tiny, but powerful area of the brain may enable consciousness: the central lateral thalamus. Activation of the central lateral thalamus and deep layers of the cerebral cortex drives pathways in the brain that carry information between the parietal and frontal lobe in the brain, the study suggests.https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/3d-brain-models-crucial-stage-of-human-development
This brain circuit works as a sort-of “engine for consciousness,” the researchers say, enabling conscious thought and feeling in primates.
To zero in on this brain circuit, a scientific team put macaque monkeys under anesthesia, then stimulated different parts of their brain with electrodes at a frequency of 50 Hertz. Essentially, they zapped different areas of the brain and observed how the monkeys responded. When the central lateral thalamus was stimulated, the monkeys woke up and their brain function resumed — even though they were STILL UNDER ANESTHESIA. Seconds after the scientists switched off the stimulation, the monkeys went right back to sleep.
This research was published Wednesday in the journal Neuron.
“Science doesn’t often leave opportunity for exhilaration, but that’s what that moment was like for those of us who were in the room,” co-author Michelle Redinbaugh, a researcher at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, tells Inverse.
This needs more time than I have at the moment to address. You are emoting based on false facts and fake news.Nothing fake about pogroms, jihad, inquisition, crusades, regular sectarian bloodshed east of Suez, the knuckledraggers in Northern Ireland who throw stones at children whose parents are assumed to worship the same god through a different rite, or those perverts who practice celibacy with choirboys.
And possibly fears introduced at childhood if you attended religious ceremonies in the Jewish faith - but you would have to give some personal information about this.Interestingly, Jewish ceremonies and calendar events are mostly about celebration and feasting, from weekly Shabbat to serious Pesach nosh-ups, with Purim and Chanukah particularly for the kids, and all accompanied by singing, music, and good wine (not asserted to be the blood of a dead rabbi). Yom Kippur is about personal and group atonement for things actually done, not fear of retribution for things not done. Self-flagellation and walking up steps on your knees for fear of spending eternity in Hell because you haven't attended enough Masses, are inflicted by the perverted on the gullible, not us.
cat's fear centerThat's essentially the same as a "don't run into trees" centre.
. I have lots of personal proofi.e. not "proof".
Scientists have continuously improved their understanding about consciousness. Here is one of newest results.QuoteIn a wild new experiment conducted on monkeys, scientists discovered that a tiny, but powerful area of the brain may enable consciousness: the central lateral thalamus. Activation of the central lateral thalamus and deep layers of the cerebral cortex drives pathways in the brain that carry information between the parietal and frontal lobe in the brain, the study suggests.https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/3d-brain-models-crucial-stage-of-human-development
This brain circuit works as a sort-of “engine for consciousness,” the researchers say, enabling conscious thought and feeling in primates.
To zero in on this brain circuit, a scientific team put macaque monkeys under anesthesia, then stimulated different parts of their brain with electrodes at a frequency of 50 Hertz. Essentially, they zapped different areas of the brain and observed how the monkeys responded. When the central lateral thalamus was stimulated, the monkeys woke up and their brain function resumed — even though they were STILL UNDER ANESTHESIA. Seconds after the scientists switched off the stimulation, the monkeys went right back to sleep.
This research was published Wednesday in the journal Neuron.
“Science doesn’t often leave opportunity for exhilaration, but that’s what that moment was like for those of us who were in the room,” co-author Michelle Redinbaugh, a researcher at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, tells Inverse.
https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(20)30005-2
No more exhibitionism from her from then on.What gave you the authority to spoil everyone else's harmless entertainment and shame a woman who was hurting nobody? Religious perversion, perhaps?
This needs more time than I have at the moment to address. You are emoting based on false facts and fake news.Nothing fake about pogroms, jihad, inquisition, crusades, regular sectarian bloodshed east of Suez, the knuckledraggers in Northern Ireland who throw stones at children whose parents are assumed to worship the same god through a different rite, or those perverts who practice celibacy with choirboys.QuoteAnd possibly fears introduced at childhood if you attended religious ceremonies in the Jewish faith - but you would have to give some personal information about this.Interestingly, Jewish ceremonies and calendar events are mostly about celebration and feasting, from weekly Shabbat to serious Pesach nosh-ups, with Purim and Chanukah particularly for the kids, and all accompanied by singing, music, and good wine (not asserted to be the blood of a dead rabbi). Yom Kippur is about personal and group atonement for things actually done, not fear of retribution for things not done. Self-flagellation and walking up steps on your knees for fear of spending eternity in Hell because you haven't attended enough Masses, are inflicted by the perverted on the gullible, not us.
But the moment I saw her, she suddenly stopped and looked out her window to the window I was at. I was in darkness and had moved the curtain ever so slightly so there was no way she could see me.Nice bit of self- delusion there.
No more exhibitionism from her from then on.What gave you the authority to spoil everyone else's harmless entertainment and shame a woman who was hurting nobody? Religious perversion, perhaps?
But the moment I saw her, she suddenly stopped and looked out her window to the window I was at. I was in darkness and had moved the curtain ever so slightly so there was no way she could see me.Nice bit of self- delusion there.
I was trying to show that a logical machine (which I once was) would view life as mechanical and therefore meaningless. If there is no meaning to life then killing it just switching off another machine. Which it how I viewed killing the cat when I was a teenager. I was still moral in that I did it to relieve the suffering. I could just as easily have let it die slowly on the basis that suffering is just electronic impulses. I am pointing out that if one takes atheism with a mechanical belief to its logical conclusion then morality and doing good are meaningless. If meaningless, why get emotional?
I was trying to show that a logical machine (which I once was) would view life as mechanical and therefore meaningless. If there is no meaning to life then killing it just switching off another machine. Which it how I viewed killing the cat when I was a teenager. I was still moral in that I did it to relieve the suffering. I could just as easily have let it die slowly on the basis that suffering is just electronic impulses. I am pointing out that if one takes atheism with a mechanical belief to its logical conclusion then morality and doing good are meaningless. If meaningless, why get emotional?
I have sometimes wondered if this could be a solution to the Fermi paradox. Maybe sufficiently-advanced civilizations come upon some slam-dunk evidence that either existence is meaningless, free will doesn't exist or some other profoundly sobering truth. The ensuing existential crisis prompts them to either commit mass suicide or simply refrain from reproducing until they become extinct. However, given that there are people who already believe those things but still seem to live a happy life, I'm guessing that hypothesis is unlikely to be true.
This needs more time than I have at the moment to address. You are emoting based on false facts and fake news.Nothing fake about pogroms, jihad, inquisition, crusades, regular sectarian bloodshed east of Suez, the knuckledraggers in Northern Ireland who throw stones at children whose parents are assumed to worship the same god through a different rite, or those perverts who practice celibacy with choirboys.QuoteAnd possibly fears introduced at childhood if you attended religious ceremonies in the Jewish faith - but you would have to give some personal information about this.Interestingly, Jewish ceremonies and calendar events are mostly about celebration and feasting, from weekly Shabbat to serious Pesach nosh-ups, with Purim and Chanukah particularly for the kids, and all accompanied by singing, music, and good wine (not asserted to be the blood of a dead rabbi). Yom Kippur is about personal and group atonement for things actually done, not fear of retribution for things not done. Self-flagellation and walking up steps on your knees for fear of spending eternity in Hell because you haven't attended enough Masses, are inflicted by the perverted on the gullible, not us.
She was in the middle of something that even a bombing by an air force would hardly result in a distraction.What you tacitly said was that she was in the middle of doing something she regarded as commonplace.
She was in the middle of something that even a bombing by an air force would hardly result in a distraction.What you tacitly said was that she was in the middle of doing something she regarded as commonplace.
Of course she would be distracted.
If as you imply, she was an exhibitionist then her goal was actually to be noticed. She would have kept a very close eye on peoples curtains to see if they twitched.
Are you writing from ignorance, which is lamentable, or prejudice, which is inexcusable, in a science forum?
Being a member of a race that has been attacked by Philistines, Romans, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Nazis, Communists (even though our brethren wrote their manifesto - talk about chutzpah!) and the Labour Party, can make you just a teeny bit cautious. "By their deeds shall ye know them", said one of our rabbis, and was crucified by the Romans to prove the point.
However, unlike all the foregoing (except for sexually inadequate Muslims, who apparently are commanded to exterminate unbelievers including each other, and the Labour Party, which is just beginning to flush itself down the toilet), we are still here and doing our thing, so there's still something to celebrate.
Or once more God wants me to respondConceited; much.
Perversion is not good.So, for example, voyeurism...?
you treat any criticism of the Jewish people as a tribal criticism and antisemitic.Obviously, if you criticise "the Jewish people" you are indeed criticising a tribe. The odd thing is that "semitic" includes a whole raft of tribes, most of whom speak Arabic and very few of whom are Jews.
I casually admired her from a distance but my mind was in "idle mode".Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So that's one more passenger for the hellfire train, eh? Voyeurism, adultery, blasphemy.....this thread is turning into a confessional.
Perversion is not good.So, for example, voyeurism...?
You realize that God, Satan and many spirits might be watching every sexual act that takes place?No, of course not, I'm an atheist.
(snip)
The Morgenthau Plan was about deindustrialisation of the Ruhr, not sterilisation of people - that was Nazi policy. But don't let the facts get in the way of whatever it is that you are arguing about.
(snip)
I am criticising a religion that does not preach universal values of brotherly love and forgiveness.So, that's all of them then, isn't it?
I am criticising a religion that does not preach universal values of brotherly love and forgiveness.So, that's all of them then, isn't it?
Did you somehow accidentally miss Christianity off that list?
Morganthau may have personally wanted sterilisation (as I stated) but it was not part his official policy.You may be a Martian invader bent on establishing the Fourth Reich under a Trump puppet (as I have just stated) but that's not part of your official policy. Farewell.
You need to appreciate the difference between the basic tenets of religionOK, You should have guessed I'd do this but...
Morganthau may have personally wanted sterilisation (as I stated) but it was not part his official policy.You may be a Martian invader bent on establishing the Fourth Reich under a Trump puppet (as I have just stated) but that's not part of your official policy. Farewell.
You need to appreciate the difference between the basic tenets of religionOK, You should have guessed I'd do this but...
It's the gospel truth. Here's what John says to the Jews.
John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Where is the relevance?It's what Christ said of the Jews.
the basic tenets of religionDid you not know that the Bible preaches hate?
Where is the relevance?It's what Christ said of the Jews.
It's part ofthe basic tenets of religionDid you not know that the Bible preaches hate?
Having now read the passage carefully it seem to be a reference to Jews who reject himThe Jews who didn't reject him are called Christians so...
They were among the world's first terrorists because they were fighting an asymmetrical war.LOL
Having now read the passage carefully it seem to be a reference to Jews who reject himThe Jews who didn't reject him are called Christians so...They were among the world's first terrorists because they were fighting an asymmetrical war.LOL
Some may be interested in reading some detail about two key psychic experiences I had.Do you really not recognise that this is irrelevant?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZVj_GTKmA2qS7sxyO5el8w0C08de3XeR
If I am allowed to do more and if there is interest then I will.
. In other words, the Jewish plotters who succeeded in having Jesus crucified.Through many a dark hour
Some may be interested in reading some detail about two key psychic experiences I had.Do you really not recognise that this is irrelevant?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZVj_GTKmA2qS7sxyO5el8w0C08de3XeR
If I am allowed to do more and if there is interest then I will.
And to end the song of Bob Dylan:. In other words, the Jewish plotters who succeeded in having Jesus crucified.Through many a dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ was
Betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.
It may be irrelevant to you because you have your mind firmly made up.No, it is irrelevant to everyone because it's an anecdote, not evidence.
It may be irrelevant to you because you have your mind firmly made up.No, it is irrelevant to everyone because it's an anecdote, not evidence.
So the answer to my question was yes. You really don't understand what evidence is.
No wonder you make so many mistakes.
You choose to exclude the evidence of the mind and the conscious despite knowing that it is poorly understood.It's not just me.
nor any substitute for the good that religion doesI am still waiting for evidence of good done by religion that couldn't be done without religion (and thus without the risk of the fraudsters you mention).
Remember when most people rejected global warming and climate change?No, but that's beside the point
you can use a bit of common-sense.From the man who is trying to tell me I should take his ghost stories as scientific evidence.
The thread is about proof but also about the hints and messages that God, if he exists, seems to be leaving for us. Today, while working in the garage I thought about the justification the Israelis give for the establishment of the State of Israel. It is simple "God gave it to them".What makes you think that God is a male? What is the defining characteristics that makes him male instead of female of gender neutral? Can he change his own gender at will? Does he got female partners?
The thread is about proof but also about the hints and messages that God, if he exists, seems to be leaving for us. Today, while working in the garage I thought about the justification the Israelis give for the establishment of the State of Israel. It is simple "God gave it to them".What makes you think that God is a male? What is the defining characteristics that makes him male instead of female of gender neutral? Can he change his own gender at will? Does he got female partners?
you can use a bit of common-sense.From the man who is trying to tell me I should take his ghost stories as scientific evidence.
I think this thread has run it's course.It ran its course the first time you decided that evidence didn't matter.
I think this thread has run it's course.It ran its course the first time you decided that evidence didn't matter.
Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality.Your dreams are not empirically verifiable reality.
The motivations and causes of denialism include religion, self-interest (economic, political, or financial), and defence mechanisms meant to protect the psyche of the denialist against mentally disturbing facts and ideas.Perhaps God wanted you to post that so I could tell you to get a mirror, in order that you may see your own failing.
Denialism is an essentially irrational action that withholds the validation of a historical experience or event, when a person refuses to accept an empirically verifiable reality.Your dreams are not empirically verifiable reality.
I have been pointing this out all along.
You are in denial about it.The motivations and causes of denialism include religion, self-interest (economic, political, or financial), and defence mechanisms meant to protect the psyche of the denialist against mentally disturbing facts and ideas.Perhaps God wanted you to post that so I could tell you to get a mirror, in order that you may see your own failing.
You pretend to yourself that your dreams are empirically verifiable in order to protect yourself from the disturbing reality that you are just making stuff up.
See what I mean about being in denial.See what I mean about a mirror?
Now what about the rest? The mental telepathy, the Tarot cards, the seeing a future events, communicating with a ghost, getting prayers answered? Your avoidance of these strong experiencesI didn't "avoid" them, did I?
You cannot prove me wrong.
Now what about the rest? The mental telepathy, the Tarot cards, the seeing a future events, communicating with a ghost, getting prayers answered? Your avoidance of these strong experiences
What I have said is things like you are looking at the placebo effect, but not recognising it or you are a victim of confirmation bias.
Pascal's Wager. The odds of belief are better than the odds of disbelief.The odds are that you pick the wrong religion and are held to account for worshipping a false idol (like Christ, or Mary).
You cannot prove me wrong. Admit it. You cannot deny this simple truth.I just did.
You cannot prove me wrong.Now what about the rest? The mental telepathy, the Tarot cards, the seeing a future events, communicating with a ghost, getting prayers answered? Your avoidance of these strong experiences
I did not avoid them.What I have said is things like you are looking at the placebo effect, but not recognising it or you are a victim of confirmation bias.
So it'snot a matter of "Did!
Did not!
Did too!
Did not, did not!
Did, did, did..."
It's a matter of "I did.Here is the quote that proves it."
So, let's not "move on" , let's just stop and wait for you to accept reality.
I did address those things, didn'tI?Pascal's Wager. The odds of belief are better than the odds of disbelief.The odds are that you pick the wrong religion and are held to account for worshipping a false idol (like Christ, or Mary).
Pascal's wager only works if there is only one religion.You cannot prove me wrong. Admit it. You cannot deny this simple truth.I just did.
I predict that you will deny it.
And then you will call me a denialist.
So let me see what we have here.
I say you cannot prove me wrong that God exists. You have not said you can prove me wrong.
Your avoidance of these strong experiences (and also the experiences of prophets such as Jesus and Muhammad) is a feature of denialism.I pointed out that it was wrong.
Did!
Did not!
Did too!
Did not, did not!
Did, did, did...
The Jews do not believe in an afterlifeAll of us? Really? It's mentioned in the Talmud. Get your facts straight, if you want to be taken seriously..
You simply say "Gee. God does not want scientific absolute proof of his existence, but is he is prepared to tell people how the spirit world works,God is part of the "spirit world".
The Jews do not believe in an afterlifeAll of us? Really? It's mentioned in the Talmud. Get your facts straight, if you want to be taken seriously..
You simply say "Gee. God does not want scientific absolute proof of his existence, but is he is prepared to tell people how the spirit world works,God is part of the "spirit world".
If the "spirit world" worked then it would prove His existence.
So, you have contradicted yourself there.
I suggest you stop trying.
Do you not see that your best explanation for some of the events I have experienced is that you do not believe me in the slightest?No
if God did not exist, then there are a few logical problems. Humankind's propensity for mystic events, and a need to explain the emergence of intelligence as well as the emergence of the laws of physics that are truly remarkable in their beauty and simplicity.OK, lets have another look at those.
God controls the spirit world. He does not want absolute proof of its existence. So everything is decided by an intelligence as to whether it will be allowed or not. Proof = not allowed. Hints = we can allow those. I think the contradiction is in your reasoning and not what I have been stating over and over againAnd enough hints would (at any given level of significance) be interpreted as proof. So, if there was really proof of spirits it would be proof of God which you say is forbidden.
The problem I have is trying to get the basics of Judaism straight.It's none of your business, unless you were born into it. We don't evangelise or accept converts easily, so why bother?
Do you not see that your best explanation for some of the events I have experienced is that you do not believe me in the slightest?No
It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I believe you are mistaken.
So, what you write off as a weak explanation is just a straw man you made up.
Stop doing that. It makes you look silly.if God did not exist, then there are a few logical problems. Humankind's propensity for mystic events, and a need to explain the emergence of intelligence as well as the emergence of the laws of physics that are truly remarkable in their beauty and simplicity.OK, lets have another look at those.
Taking the third point last
It's much easier to get a few simple laws to arise spontaneously than to have anything as complicated as a God.
The emergence of intelligence is entirely consistent with evolution.
We even have an indication of what the intermediate steps are like. Man is brighter than the other apes.
They are generally brighter than, for example, dogs and they, in turn, are brighter than worms. The worms are cleverer than plants, and so on.
So there's no mystery there- just you refusing to understand.
And it's true that people experience mystical things.
We can reproduce that in the lab
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
And our research shows that it is more common in people with a known brain malfunction.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/temporal-lobe-epilepsy-religious-experiences.html
So, the actual evidence suggests that "mysticism" is just another of those interesting features we have found in the brain like confirmation bias and the placebo effect.
So, there are no actual problems there; once again, it's just you not accepting the evidence.God controls the spirit world. He does not want absolute proof of its existence. So everything is decided by an intelligence as to whether it will be allowed or not. Proof = not allowed. Hints = we can allow those. I think the contradiction is in your reasoning and not what I have been stating over and over againAnd enough hints would (at any given level of significance) be interpreted as proof. So, if there was really proof of spirits it would be proof of God which you say is forbidden.
What you state " over and over again" misses this.
If you are right about proving that there are spirits then you have proved there's a God.
But you can't.
And, of course, you haven't.
The problem I have is trying to get the basics of Judaism straight.It's none of your business, unless you were born into it. We don't evangelise or accept converts easily, so why bother?
The strength of the family is a "pick and mix" tradition. Two Jews = three opinions, but still two Jews. Belief is stultifying - argument is stimulating.
Mistaken? I get a shock, not a "feeling" that the biker going past me in an ordinary way on an ordinary day will die just ahead. I slow down so as to not ride over him. He dies, and not because of an accident. How on earth can I be mistaken?You are mistaken in thinking that it is anything but coincidence.
The exhibitionist who got upset with me. How on earth (or in hell) did that happen?I already answered that.
I fully accept confirmation bias and placebo effects in people. But because I am aware of them, I know when to discount them.You plainly do not.
Jesus foretold his own deathIt's a miracle!
What is the difference between random radio signals from space and communication by alien life? Seems you would not know the answer so I will tell you. It is the "intelligence" contained in the information.How can you possibly think I don't know that?
Mistaken? I get a shock, not a "feeling" that the biker going past me in an ordinary way on an ordinary day will die just ahead. I slow down so as to not ride over him. He dies, and not because of an accident. How on earth can I be mistaken?You are mistaken in thinking that it is anything but coincidence.The exhibitionist who got upset with me. How on earth (or in hell) did that happen?I already answered that.
Have you forgotten?
and so on.I fully accept confirmation bias and placebo effects in people. But because I am aware of them, I know when to discount them.You plainly do not.Jesus foretold his own deathIt's a miracle!
A man who protested against the Romans and their rules foretold his own death (alongside presumably all the others who protested).
And yet you think that's some sort of proof of divinity when it's just a statement of the obvious.
What is the difference between random radio signals from space and communication by alien life? Seems you would not know the answer so I will tell you. It is the "intelligence" contained in the information.How can you possibly think I don't know that?
On the other hand, without the mechanism to decode it, it may (like spread signal communication) be indistinguishable from noise.
That's the point.
I was blessed with a fully functional high performing brain, although it took a while to learn to be able to use it properly.Or you are deluded.
Added to that was a need for secrecySecrecy? There are plenty of books on Judaism, about half written by people who knew what they were talking about.
[But there is a price to pay - paranoia.We do indeed suffer from the paranoia that demagogues induce in others, but the most balanced and rational people I have met were survivors of Nazi and Communist antisemitism.
I was blessed with a fully functional high performing brain, although it took a while to learn to be able to use it properly.Or you are deluded.
And your problem is that, from everyone else's point of view, it looks like the latter.
Here is a definition.Yes, but it's not a definition of the right word.
https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/delusional-disorder#1
They are also rational in that they offer personal proof of a Prime Cause.That's not even true in the context of your beliefs.
Here is a definition.Yes, but it's not a definition of the right word.
https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/delusional-disorder#1
This is
deluded
/dɪˈluːdɪd/
adjective
believing something that is not true.
"the poor deluded creature"
And yet, you thought it was.
So you believed something that isn't true.
You poor deluded creature.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 09:08:46
They are also rational in that they offer personal proof of a Prime Cause.
That's not even true in the context of your beliefs.
How can you be sure that it's the same "God"?
The one that made the Universe might have died a million years ago and we are now under the supervision of His dimwitted Son.
Added to that was a need for secrecySecrecy? There are plenty of books on Judaism, about half written by people who knew what they were talking about.Quote[But there is a price to pay - paranoia.We do indeed suffer from the paranoia that demagogues induce in others, but the most balanced and rational people I have met were survivors of Nazi and Communist antisemitism.
To have a son, the God would have to have a wife and be capable of procreation, not to mention dying thereafter.And, for all you actually know, He does.
Here is one example of a possible "sixth sense". You could say I am unusually observant - which would also boost my credentials. Note that I accept that I could somehow have seen the hidden watch.Luck.
On a hike our group were camped by a field. I noticed a group of about ten hikers searching in the field as a distressed woman guided them. After about 45 minutes, they gave up one by one. The woman was left crying with her husband. I walked up and said I have a talent for finding missing things and have done so a number of times. I asked her what she lost and where she thinks she lost it. It was the center of the search area. I walked around for a couple of minutes and then bent down and moved a clump of grass to the side. There was the missing watch - an expensive heirloom. She ran at me and jumped onto me to hug me. I thought I was being grabbed by an octopus she held so tight.
So when I claim to be able to do something I can often deliver.
The secrecy was in place until very recently.No, not for a thousand years or so.
Another example of a "sixth sense".Or the ability to use (but not to spell) a Megger.
I tested a large smelting transformer and told them that the meggar test failed.
Another example of a "sixth sense".Or the ability to use (but not to spell) a Megger.I tested a large smelting transformer and told them that the meggar test failed.
The secrecy was in place until very recently.No, not for a thousand years or so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_ibn_Abitur
Do you think it disqualifies my statement about secrecy?The definition of the word disqualifies your statement.
How about this scenario.It's bad sci fi.
Do you think it disqualifies my statement about secrecy?The definition of the word disqualifies your statement.
It's not as if that 1000 year old version is the only translation.
How about this scenario.It's bad sci fi.
So you think the general populace and the rulers of countries up until 1900
The secrecy was in place until very recently.
So you think the general populace and the rulers of countries up until 1900The secrecy was in place until very recently.
Nice attempt there, but put the goalpost back where it was.
However, the answer to your question is demonstrably yes
"The unofficial visit of Prince George and his brothers to Jerusalem, including their participation at the Passover Seder held at the home of the the Chief Rabbi Raphael Meir Panigel, is also documented in the Hebrew booklet “The Visit of the Princes of England in Jerusalem” written by the famous writer and researcher Pinchas Graiewski (1873-1941) together with Baruch Priver."
from
https://blog.nli.org.il/en/king_george_v_pessach_1882/
And before that too
http://strangeside.com/adler-rabbi-nathan-and-queen-victoria/
One is the Red Cross (Christian)The Red Cross isn't Christian.
One word answer - propaganda.And that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed the same way.
One is the Red Cross (Christian)The Red Cross isn't Christian.
One word answer - propaganda.And that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed the same way.
LOLOne is the Red Cross (Christian)The Red Cross isn't Christian.
Oh! Really!
https://christianheritagefellowship.com/the-christian-origin-of-the-red-cross
Like so many institutions, organizations, and benevolent agencies, the Red Cross had its origin in the Christian Faith. As noted below in the brief thumbnail sketch, the Christian faith of banker and businessman, Henry Dunant, was the impetus behind the compassion that has been and continues to be extended to millions around the world.
One word answer - propaganda.
So, you accept tat I'm right and there's no reason to suppose that it is proaganda?One word answer - propaganda.And that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed the same way.
Not worth further debate, even to respond to this.
And the virus spreading in people without symptomsDo you think that's unusual, or are you aware that some people don't get every cold that does the rounds?
mutant enhancing properties of cell microwaveIs that the plot of some sci fi film?
Is my sci-fi so irrational and unbelievable?Yes, because it lacks a plausible mechanism
Meanwhile, the team realizes that the alien microbe would thrive on the energy of a nuclear explosion and would consequently be transformed into a supercolony that could destroy all life on Earth.You have mistaken a nuclear bomb for a mobile phone.
God may have permitted that by limiting natural disastersOf course! The Ice Age, the Black Death, and the destruction of Pompeii, were all due to Man's disobedience in erecting microwave towers, not by God's faulty construction of the universe.
And the virus spreading in people without symptomsDo you think that's unusual, or are you aware that some people don't get every cold that does the rounds?mutant enhancing properties of cell microwaveIs that the plot of some sci fi film?
Viruses don't need help to mutate.Is my sci-fi so irrational and unbelievable?Yes, because it lacks a plausible mechanism
God may have permitted that by limiting natural disastersOf course! The Ice Age, the Black Death, and the destruction of Pompeii, were all due to Man's disobedience in erecting microwave towers, not by God's faulty construction of the universe.
The idea that homo sapiens "flourished" for 10,000 years doesn't quite gel with the population statistics.
Now how do I know that cell microwave causes problems in people who have an underlying condition? Because of first hand experience over the last 18 months. Headaches, stomach upsets, knee pain - all were made worse by exposure to high levels (by natural standards and not legal standards) of cell radiation.
I am writing from memory so I stand to be corrected on some details
And all the time the cell-radiation is assisting in causing mutations in the virus.
Viruses don't need help to mutate.
I am writing from memory so I stand to be corrected on some detailsAnd all the time the cell-radiation is assisting in causing mutations in the virus.Viruses don't need help to mutate.
Your memory is frighteningly poor.
I suggest you seek urgent medical help.
Now how do I know that cell microwave causes problems in people who have an underlying condition? Because of first hand experience over the last 18 months. Headaches, stomach upsets, knee pain - all were made worse by exposure to high levels (by natural standards and not legal standards) of cell radiation.
Is there a name for this specific mental health problem?
The one where you can function as a normal human being, read, write, hold down a job etc.
But still not be able to understand that an anecdote is not the same as proof.
Remember what I said about a poster using insults instead of debating the issues?Pointing out that you had forgotten what I told you about 12 hours earlier is not an insult, it's advice; go and seek medical help.
Note two points in the first. Calcium and pH. The cell microwave interferes with both. Your turn BC.No
The cell microwave interferes with both.
The stressors on human evolution do something similar.An omniscient, omnipotent being would not mess about with evolution - he would go straight to the ultimate product. Thus your god is either not omnipotent and omniscient, in which case he is not worth inventing, let alone worshipping, or he is reprehensible.
So you think the general populace and the rulers of countries up until 1900 were aware of what the Jewish teachings were and what the rituals were all about?Your ignorance is not evidence of my secrecy. My neighbour is a Hindu. I can't read his sacred texts nor do I know what he does about them, and it's none of my damn business anyway.
The stressors on human evolution do something similar.An omniscient, omnipotent being would not mess about with evolution - he would go straight to the ultimate product. Thus your god is either not omnipotent and omniscient, in which case he is not worth inventing, let alone worshipping, or he is reprehensible.
If you were given the choice of doing a painting/sculpture/work of art or just snapping your fingers and getting instant results - which choice would you make if you were an artist?Who cares what choice I would make?
So you think the general populace and the rulers of countries up until 1900 were aware of what the Jewish teachings were and what the rituals were all about?Your ignorance is not evidence of my secrecy. My neighbour is a Hindu. I can't read his sacred texts nor do I know what he does about them, and it's none of my damn business anyway.
If you were given the choice of doing a painting/sculpture/work of art or just snapping your fingers and getting instant results - which choice would you make if you were an artist?Who cares what choice I would make?
I'm not an all powerful, everlasting God.
Things like boredom only apply to mortals.
(snip)
So where's the proof of this claim?The cell microwave interferes with both.
The hidden side of Judaism is that the Jewish beliefs see the world as Jew and non-Jew.Nonstandard meaning of "hidden", I think. It's as overt as Christian and heathen, or muslim and infidel. Or Arsenal (red shirts) and visitors.
The hidden side of Judaism is that the Jewish beliefs see the world as Jew and non-Jew.Nonstandard meaning of "hidden", I think. It's as overt as Christian and heathen, or muslim and infidel. Or Arsenal (red shirts) and visitors.
The outstanding aspect of Judaism is that it does not seek to convert or exterminate people of other faiths. "By their deeds shall ye know them" was said by the most famous Jew of all time.
You can probably trace your family back a few generations. Whilst many of the paper records have been destroyed, my maternal DNA irrevocably links me with (almost*) every other Jew that ever lived, regardless of his belief or none, so scientifically speaking you are either in or out of the tribe.
*The few genuine converts include Sammy Davis Jr and Nelson Mandela, neither of whom was under any pressure to join but both were welcomed.
I was in the mind of the Ultimate IntelligenceAnd that's the point where common sense stops.
Secretive banking! How dare they?
The first question I ask any prospective banker is "Please make sure that my financial affairs are public knowledge", so I can be assured that my businesses will fail in the true spirit of Christian humility.
Your anti-Semitic advisors (and you seem to be extensively, if not well, informed) will probably have pointed out the extreme bias of the Nobel committees in favour of British Jews from Trinity College, Cambridge. Obvious conspiracy, and so secretive that it makes the headlines every year.
(snip)
So where's the proof of this claim?The cell microwave interferes with both.
Tomorrow. It is late and past my bedtime.
You can reread my posts in the topic about cell towers and health problems in the "That CAN'T be true" section.What would be the point?
Bottom line is "time will tell".It already did.
I wondered since 2009 whether the die-off would be fast and hard or slow and long-lasting. I think it is the latter. God seems to want to give humankind a chance to adjust.If God created a virus that leaves well over 90% of the population alive, and which essentially only kills significant numbers among people who are well over reproductive age then, whatever His plan may be, it's not population control.
I was seriously worried in case of an economic collapse. So I got two prayers answered.So you could sell the house before the price collapses. I wonder what the buyer is praying for?
He's presumably praying that he gets a cheap house.I was seriously worried in case of an economic collapse. So I got two prayers answered.So you could sell the house before the price collapses. I wonder what the buyer is praying for?
religion being applied to business ethics."Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - a famous saying by the most famous rabbi of all.
This morning I did two layouts of the cards and told my wife that although there was some relation to home and money there was definitely no answer.
My wife said to me "You cannot always rely on your luck". Not luck I said. It is reliable and predictable. Many many times.
religion being applied to business ethics."Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - a famous saying by the most famous rabbi of all.
Like your man said, business is business, that is, it has nothing to do with religion.
My secretary came into the office one Monday morning and announced that she had just agreed her church wedding date. The vicar had been very diffident, pointing out that she was not a regular attender and her fiancé wasn't even a confirmed Christian.
"How did you get round that?"
"I took a leaf from your book. I said 'Second Saturday in November, 2 pm, seventy-five quid. Do you want the gig or not?' "
Star pupil.
This morning I did two layouts of the cards and told my wife that although there was some relation to home and money there was definitely no answer.My wife said to me "You cannot always rely on your luck". Not luck I said. It is reliable and predictable. Many many times.
I was seriously worried in case of an economic collapse. So I got two prayers answered.So you could sell the house before the price collapses. I wonder what the buyer is praying for?
It really isn't convoluted.This morning I did two layouts of the cards and told my wife that although there was some relation to home and money there was definitely no answer.My wife said to me "You cannot always rely on your luck". Not luck I said. It is reliable and predictable. Many many times.
Explain please. Or am I supposed to be a mind reader to your convoluted mental processes?
It really isn't convoluted.This morning I did two layouts of the cards and told my wife that although there was some relation to home and money there was definitely no answer.My wife said to me "You cannot always rely on your luck". Not luck I said. It is reliable and predictable. Many many times.
Explain please. Or am I supposed to be a mind reader to your convoluted mental processes?
You say it always works.
And you say it doesn't always work.
Giving no answer is not working.It really isn't convoluted.This morning I did two layouts of the cards and told my wife that although there was some relation to home and money there was definitely no answer.My wife said to me "You cannot always rely on your luck". Not luck I said. It is reliable and predictable. Many many times.
Explain please. Or am I supposed to be a mind reader to your convoluted mental processes?
You say it always works.
And you say it doesn't always work.
Yes it works. I said that there are times the answer is "No Answer". It is not a wrong answer.
Giving no answer is not working.It really isn't convoluted.This morning I did two layouts of the cards and told my wife that although there was some relation to home and money there was definitely no answer.My wife said to me "You cannot always rely on your luck". Not luck I said. It is reliable and predictable. Many many times.
Explain please. Or am I supposed to be a mind reader to your convoluted mental processes?
You say it always works.
And you say it doesn't always work.
Yes it works. I said that there are times the answer is "No Answer". It is not a wrong answer.
BTW - The realtor was quite worried about the effect of the corona virus on house sales. He hoped it would be short-lived - 3 months or less.Really? Or was he worried about the effect of falling rates of house sale, or falling prices, on his commission?
BTW - The realtor was quite worried about the effect of the corona virus on house sales. He hoped it would be short-lived - 3 months or less.Really? Or was he worried about the effect of falling rates of house sale, or falling prices, on his commission?
In almost every survey of public trust in professionals, realtors score just above politicians and below journalists.
If spirit communication happens then God exists.And, because God refuses to prove that He exists, or to allow any such proof- it follows that spirit communication doesn't happen.
If spirit communication happens then God exists.Non sequitur.
If spirit communication happens then God exists.And, because God refuses to prove that He exists, or to allow any such proof- it follows that spirit communication doesn't happen.
I already pointed that out.
If spirit communication happens then God exists.Non sequitur.
The Tarot cards tell me that the agents are pressuring both parties in order to get the sale.Since that is their job, the cards are only telling you what everyone knows. Or did you hire an agent for some other purpose?
The Tarot cards tell me that the agents are pressuring both parties in order to get the sale.Since that is their job, the cards are only telling you what everyone knows. Or did you hire an agent for some other purpose?
Finally. You agree that God refuses to prove that he exists. We are making progress.Finally you notice that I already said that.
But with spirit communication being mostly anecdotal then the rule is not brokenEither it is or it isn't.
Eventually I figure out that something was affecting the nerve. My hypothesis was that the elastic band on my underwear was pressing on a soft piece of leg tissue. I changed things and the burning has disappeared except when I visit the house. So here we have two pieces of information.How would you distinguish that from a psychosomatic effect?
Eventually I figure out that something was affecting the nerve. My hypothesis was that the elastic band on my underwear was pressing on a soft piece of leg tissue. I changed things and the burning has disappeared except when I visit the house. So here we have two pieces of information.How would you distinguish that from a psychosomatic effect?
A psychosomatic effect is usually accompanied by an expectation.Well, yes, obviously and once again, it's time for you to look in the mirror.
except when I visit the house.
A psychosomatic effect is usually accompanied by an expectation. "Here take this pill. We expect you may feel better."Or "wear this tinfoil hat; we expect you to feel better"
Disturbed sleep (waking up tired and dreams were hazy and erratic - stopped immediately when I started wearing aluminium headgear.Oh look! it worked.
Hey BC. I see you also post comments on Fox News. Or are there more like you?That's got nothing to do with me or with psychosomatic illness.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/air-pollution-causing-pandemic-shaving-nearly-three-years-from-peoples-lives
OK,
Given that, in fact (it has been measured) tin foil hats increase the microwave dose in your head, do you accept that it must be the placebo effect?
https://www.howtogeek.com/114037/researchers-prove-tin-foil-hats-boost-receptivity-to-government-signals/
They include signals emanating FROM the cranium. I do not have any electronics in my head. Do you?Yes (assuming that you consider anything which produces a signal as "electronics")
And you believe such garbage as opposed to what I tell you?Are you sure you really want to ask that?
The bottom line is that signals do not get through the foil hatNobody said they did. Nobody said they needed to
Must be paid cell industry trolls - aiming to discredit any credible evidence.You are claiming that your unsupported observation and guesswork are more credible than MIT's PHD researchers.
I should try this experiment with my meter. Take half a water melon with the inner stuff removed. Put my meter into it with the small non-directional aerial. Put a foil cap on. How much are you willing to bet that there is significant attenuation?Well, obviously it depends on a whole lot of things.
Yet these corona viruses were the most obvious threat.Not really.
After all, here I am, giving you some information and people do not change or think about the implications.That's because your "information" is wrong, and this is a science site.
Are you sure you really want to ask that?
Do I believe the outcome of a study by researchers at MIT or a man who believes in tarot cards?
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 13:46:14
Must be paid cell industry trolls - aiming to discredit any credible evidence.
You are claiming that your unsupported observation and guesswork are more credible than MIT's PHD researchers.
Do you have any idea how funny that is?
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 13:46:14
I should try this experiment with my meter. Take half a water melon with the inner stuff removed. Put my meter into it with the small non-directional aerial. Put a foil cap on. How much are you willing to bet that there is significant attenuation?
Well, obviously it depends on a whole lot of things.
But you are making the tacit claim that it can never be amplified.
Are you sure about that?
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 13:54:29
After all, here I am, giving you some information and people do not change or think about the implications.
That's because your "information" is wrong, and this is a science site.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 13:54:29
Yet these corona viruses were the most obvious threat.
Not really.
Until last December coronavirus was pretty much restricted to some (about 17%) common colds and SARS and MERS- which are betacoronoviridae and had died out.
On the other hand, influenza- which is not a coronavirus but a orthomyxovirus- kills thousands every year (in spite of mass vaccination).
What you are saying is that it was obvious that we should focus our limited resources on the viruses that had died out, rather than the one that was killing people.
Where are the peer-reviewed publications?What, the ones about tarot cards?
Resonance does not take place if there is a lossy medium absorbing the signal - in this case a head and brainis irrelevant.
I notice you are not prepared to donate a large sum of money to charity should my test prove me right.I don't recall being asked.
One of your tactics is avoidance of facts you do not like.Like what?
Avoidance is the cousin of denial (not deniece of denephew).When push comes to shove; they measured a real effect.
Do you accept that in the last decade the scientific community was saying that a pandemic was overdue and was not a case of "if" but "when".Yes.
Yet these corona viruses were the most obvious threat.
Look at the impact. Not just of lives but of economic disruption. One needs to read about the towns in the USA impacted by the Spanish Flu. Only one third of people in some cases died of the disease. Others died of lack of food and a collapse of infrastructure like fire and ambulance services.At the time of the Spanish flu epidemic, nobody even knew what a virus was.
At the time of the Spanish flu epidemic, nobody even knew what a virus was.But they knew what it did! And wasn't it a corona virus? Nasty little buggers, created by a just and merciful god to punish the innocent.
And wasn't it a corona virus?No.
Do you accept that in the last decade the scientific community was saying that a pandemic was overdue and was not a case of "if" but "when".Yes.
But people were, understandably focussing on the bugs that were actually killing people (and mutating rapidly- as they do).
Yet you tried to claim this.Yet these corona viruses were the most obvious threat.
At the time of the Spanish flu epidemic, nobody even knew what a virus was.But they knew what it did! And wasn't it a corona virus? Nasty little buggers, created by a just and merciful god to punish the innocent.
God watched as he let man's freedom to kill himself do just that.And then God decided to kill even more.
I am on oxygen anyway so if things get tough I do not need to go to hospital.True.
Silver is used in the expensive dressings as a germicide.And the important distinction is that the dressings go OUTSIDE the patient.
Silver is used in the expensive dressings as a germicide.And the important distinction is that the dressings go OUTSIDE the patient.
With the development of modern antibiotics in the 1940s, the use of silver as an antimicrobial agent diminished.There's a reason for that; it's not as good.
sometimes internally for diseases such as tropical sprue, epilepsy,Their use for epilepsy (which is not an infection) shows that they didn't really know what they were doing.
God watched as he let man's freedom to kill himself do just that.And then God decided to kill even more.
Nice guy, isn't He?I am on oxygen anyway so if things get tough I do not need to go to hospital.True.
I'm in reasonably good heath- luck me.
If I'm taken ill in such a way that my lungs are unable to extract enough oxygen from air then (with luck) I will get taken to hospital and supplied with pure oxygen.
That gives me roughly 5 fold more "leeway" on oxygen capacity.
If you are already on oxygen and you get the same level of lung damage, you will die.
So, yes, you will need to go to hospital- specifically the morgue.
Being on oxygen already is not a benefit in this case.
sometimes internally for diseases such as tropical sprue, epilepsy,Their use for epilepsy (which is not an infection) shows that they didn't really know what they were doing.
The demographic of the victims of spanish flu, on one hand and corvid 19 , on the other is instructive.
One killed mainly the "fit young adults" the other mainly the elderly.
Which shows that they are rather different conditions (albeit with some similarity).
That's supported by the fact that they are different families of viruses.
So why do you keep trying to conflate them?With the development of modern antibiotics in the 1940s, the use of silver as an antimicrobial agent diminished.There's a reason for that; it's not as good.
Have you considered that without God the world could be far worse off?Have you considered that , if He cared about us it would, necessarily be be better off, but it isn't.
We can blame Satan,But, as in the crusades or ISIS or the Nazi persecution of Jews, it's generally more sensible to either blame God, or leave Him out of it.
Rather than try to find contradiction and tear down institutions whose overall impact has been beneficial, why not be more tolerant and accept the benefits?And... once again... get yourself a mirror and stop trying to undermine science.
As antibiotics become less effective and silver has not lost any effectivenessGot evidence?
You do know that the immune system is reduced when treating a virus with an antibioticNobody with appropriate education treats viral infections with antibiotics.
You may be right. It was hit and miss. Perhaps it had a small effect by altering the ionic balance in the neurons slightlyOr, like yout silver hat, it was a really good placebo (placebos work better if they are something exotic)
You do know that the immune system is reduced when treating a virus with an antibioticNobody with appropriate education treats viral infections with antibiotics.
I did not say that I agreed.You do know that the immune system is reduced when treating a virus with an antibioticNobody with appropriate education treats viral infections with antibiotics.
Go to your local GP and complain about a chest infection and see if you first get tested before you get your antibiotic. Does the doctor even ask the questions to differentiate the bacterial from viral?
However, the bottom line is that you agree.
Go to your local GP and complain about a chest infection and see if you first get tested before you get your antibiotic.I get told it's probably viral.
Have you considered that without God the world could be far worse off?Have you considered that , if He cared about us it would, necessarily be be better off, but it isn't.We can blame Satan,But, as in the crusades or ISIS or the Nazi persecution of Jews, it's generally more sensible to either blame God, or leave Him out of it.Rather than try to find contradiction and tear down institutions whose overall impact has been beneficial, why not be more tolerant and accept the benefits?And... once again... get yourself a mirror and stop trying to undermine science.
Then have a look at which side of history religion has been on.
By telling Christians that they are in God's image, it promoted racism.
By publicising Leviticus, it encouraged encourages homophobia.
And by telling people where to get their slaves it set back the anti slavery movement.
And by proclaiming stupid nonsense about witches (among other things) it set back the sex equality movement.
So, yes, sure; look to "institutions whose overall impact has been beneficial,".
You will not find the churches there.
Go to your local GP and complain about a chest infection and see if you first get tested before you get your antibiotic.I get told it's probably viral.
I might get offered antibiotics to prevent secondary (bacterial) infection.
Did you not understand why antibiotics are sometimes prescribed in those circumstances?
The same point I made about masks. Choose your source and use common sense.That rather misses the point.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/07/is-coronavirus-mutating-into-a-more-deadly-strain-face-masks-covid-19-myths-busted
Claim: ‘Face masks don’t work’
Wearing a face mask is certainly not an iron-clad guarantee that you won’t get sick – viruses can also transmit through the eyes and tiny viral particles, known as aerosols, can penetrate masks. However, masks are effective at capturing droplets, which is a main transmission route of coronavirus, and some studies have estimated a roughly fivefold protection versus no barrier alone (although others have found lower levels of effectiveness).
If you are likely to be in close contact with someone infected, a mask cuts the chance of the disease being passed on. If you’re showing symptoms of coronavirus, or have been diagnosed, wearing a mask can also protect others. So masks are crucial for health and social care workers looking after patients and are also recommended for family members who need to care for someone who is ill – ideally both the patient and carer should have a mask.
I educate myself ....Badly, judging by what you have posted.
The current popular history of the Churches emphasizes the faults and diminishes the benefits. The global rise of anti-Christians in the media adds greatly to the distortions.And, when you have finished wittering meaninglessly, it will still be the case that the churches encouraged or supported racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery and so on.
And a biased emotive mind just makes the overall picture worse. Either you educate yourself in a objective way, or you keep spouting the same anti-religious (mostly anti-Christian) rhetoric.
The current popular history of the Churches emphasizes the faults and diminishes the benefits. The global rise of anti-Christians in the media adds greatly to the distortions.And, when you have finished wittering meaninglessly, it will still be the case that the churches encouraged or supported racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery and so on.
And a biased emotive mind just makes the overall picture worse. Either you educate yourself in a objective way, or you keep spouting the same anti-religious (mostly anti-Christian) rhetoric.
There is no evidence that the churches per se did much good.
There is plenty that they did harm.
The same point I made about masks. Choose your source and use common sense.That rather misses the point.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/07/is-coronavirus-mutating-into-a-more-deadly-strain-face-masks-covid-19-myths-busted
Claim: ‘Face masks don’t work’
Wearing a face mask is certainly not an iron-clad guarantee that you won’t get sick – viruses can also transmit through the eyes and tiny viral particles, known as aerosols, can penetrate masks. However, masks are effective at capturing droplets, which is a main transmission route of coronavirus, and some studies have estimated a roughly fivefold protection versus no barrier alone (although others have found lower levels of effectiveness).
If you are likely to be in close contact with someone infected, a mask cuts the chance of the disease being passed on. If you’re showing symptoms of coronavirus, or have been diagnosed, wearing a mask can also protect others. So masks are crucial for health and social care workers looking after patients and are also recommended for family members who need to care for someone who is ill – ideally both the patient and carer should have a mask.
Yes, a mask is a good idea if you are with someone who is infected.
But virtually nobody is actually infected.
South Africa currently has 3 reported cases (if I read the news correctly) in a population of 60 million.
Once more - the motivation is to prevent an excessive demand on masks. Do what China did and set up a factory to churn them out.The media created the excessive demand for masks (and other goods that are now in short supply).
Once more you set up a straw-man of expecting perfection"Perfection" is an interesting description for having the basic human decency to not actively support slavery, sexism, homophobia and racism.
You do it with God and you do it with the Christian and Muslim religions.The Jews are pretty much in the same boat. The Old Testament is essentially the same in all 3 major Abrahamic religions.
Is it just possible that the whole of society around the world supported racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery and other norms now considered immoral?Yes, and when the rest of the world tried to shake off those abhorrent traits, the Churches told them that they needed to continue them- because the scriptures say so.
Was secular and atheist society any better?The people (in the West) saying " We should not keep slaves" did so in direct contradiction of the scriptures.
What are your solutions to get humankind to work cooperatively?If the book doesn't agree with the observation one of two things happens.
I can tell you that in my research on various religionsGiven that your research didn't even let you know that Judaism and Islam also rely on the Old Testament, your research is pretty poor, isn't it?
I said that my personal feeling (not backed by Tarot) was that Amy Klobuchar might have a shot at the presidency. When she failed so badly I thought that was the end of that thought. But if she becomes Biden's running mate and he gets ill at a critical stage then she might just end up as the Democratic contender. Is it possible? Life is strange. I like her as a good middle of the road contender.That may be many things, but it is not scientific proof of the existence of God.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:55:50
What are your solutions to get humankind to work cooperatively?
If the book doesn't agree with the observation one of two things happens.
Religion rejects the observations and keeps the book.
Science keeps the observations and updates the book.
Don't you understand how, even if there was a God, the people would be better off following facts than old myths?
If you want people to cooperate the thing you need to avoid doing is splitting them into groups by race, sex, religion sexuality or anything else.
So, do you see how ditching a book that divides them on all those categories would be a good thing?
I said that my personal feeling (not backed by Tarot) was that Amy Klobuchar might have a shot at the presidency. When she failed so badly I thought that was the end of that thought. But if she becomes Biden's running mate and he gets ill at a critical stage then she might just end up as the Democratic contender. Is it possible? Life is strange. I like her as a good middle of the road contender.That may be many things, but it is not scientific proof of the existence of God.
Why did you post it?
Let's get specific. Are the ten commandments good? Should we keep them? If you want to modify them, which ones and why?Let's get more specific. What makes something considered as good? What is the most reliable method/criteria to determine that something is good?
The Ten Commandments
T R LXX P L S A C Main article Exodus 20:1-17 Deuteronomy 5:4-21
1 (1) — — — — — 1 I am the Lord thy God 2[28] 6[28]
2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Thou shalt have no other gods before me 3[29] 7[29]
2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image 4–6[30] 8–10[30]
3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain 7[31] 11[31]
4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy 8–11[32] 12–15[33]
5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 Honour thy father and thy mother 12[34] 16[35]
6 6 6 7 5 5 5 5 Thou shalt not murder 13[36] 17[36]
7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 Thou shalt not commit adultery 14[37] 18[38]
8 8 8 8 7 7 7 7 Thou shalt not steal 15[39] 19[40]
9 9 9 9 8 8 8 8 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour 16[41] 20[42]
10 10 10 10 9 9 10 10 Thou shalt not covet (neighbour's house) 17a[43] 21b[44]
10 10 10 10 10 9 9 9 Thou shalt not covet (neighbour's wife) 17b[45] 21a[46]
10 10 10 10 10 9 10 10 Thou shalt not covet (neighbour's slaves, animals, or anything else) 17c[47] 21c[48]
— — — — — 10 — — You shall set up these stones, which I command you today, on Mount Gerizim. 14c[49][50] 18c[49][51]
All scripture quotes above are from the King James Version unless otherwise stated.
I am the Lord thy God.Is this a command at all?
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Many societies have/had different gods without much problems. This one is dispensable.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven imageThis one is dispensable for the same reason.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vainThis one is dispensable for the same reason.
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holyThis one is dispensable for the same reason. To apply this commandment to firefighters and other public servants is detrimental to the society.
Let's get specific. Are the ten commandments good? Should we keep them? If you want to modify them, which ones and why?There are many more than ten, but these are considered by most faiths to be the most important.
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 05:13:39
Let's get specific. Are the ten commandments good? Should we keep them? If you want to modify them, which ones and why?
Let's get more specific. What makes something considered as good? What is the most reliable method/criteria to determine that something is good?
Here is how one defines good. Take a group of older wise people and ask them to give examples of what is good. Their experience of the human condition and their common sense and an innate sense of right and wrong.Hence pogroms, the Inquisition, the Crusades, forcible "conversion" by the Conquistadores, prohibition of contraception, covering up child sex abuse, and every fatwah and jihad ordained by other old perverts.
Combat teaches a nation to treat an enemy as verminSo does religion; that's the problem.
He really wanted interdependence.It is nonsense to say "God wanted X". The omniscient, omnipotent creator of everything, creates exactly what he wants.
Combat teaches a nation to treat an enemy as verminSo does religion; that's the problem.
And it explicitly requires the murder of some groups
whether that's stoning homosexuals or not "suffering witches to live"
Here is how one defines good. Take a group of older wise people and ask them to give examples of what is good. Their experience of the human condition and their common sense and an innate sense of right and wrong.Hence pogroms, the Inquisition, the Crusades, forcible "conversion" by the Conquistadores, prohibition of contraception, covering up child sex abuse, and every fatwah and jihad ordained by other old perverts.
With free will at work, and Satan deceiving, God does not get what he wants every time. God has to use what he did not choose.He really wanted interdependence.It is nonsense to say "God wanted X". The omniscient, omnipotent creator of everything, creates exactly what he wants.
The death penalty has been used until very recently for many crimes. Society decides on the crimes and the punishments.
The death penalty has been used until very recently for many crimes. Society decides on the crimes and the punishments.
And they make that decision which says the Bible is wrong.
Humanity does a better job of being good then the Book does.
why can't you accept that?
The conversion of Spanish Jews was in lieu of a pogrom - and it worked. A number of Jews were assimilated….and a greater number were tortured to death and/or had their assets seized. Interesting definition of "worked", worthy of Goebbels himself.
I notice that once more you assail the Bible and not the Torahanyone who knew anything about the Bible would know that the Torah constitutes the first five books thereof.
The conversion of Spanish Jews was in lieu of a pogrom - and it worked. A number of Jews were assimilated….and a greater number were tortured to death and/or had their assets seized. Interesting definition of "worked", worthy of Goebbels himself.
If God wants all religions to update and improve then Judaism is not an exception.Please get this straight. There is no evidence for a god that wants anything, or even exists. Religion is an excuse for doing things that would otherwise be considered pointless or positively evil.
If God wants all religions to update and improve then Judaism is not an exception.Please get this straight. There is no evidence for a god that wants anything, or even exists. Religion is an excuse for doing things that would otherwise be considered pointless or positively evil.
He really wanted interdependence.It is nonsense to say "God wanted X". The omniscient, omnipotent creator of everything, creates exactly what he wants.
The Muslims wash themselves and are cleaner than if they used toilet paper.I am always impressed by the breadth and depth of specialist knowledge in this forum. Comparative theoproctological hygeine! Whatever next?
The Muslims wash themselves and are cleaner than if they used toilet paper.I am always impressed by the breadth and depth of specialist knowledge in this forum. Comparative theoproctological hygeine! Whatever next?
But seriously. My muslim friends buy toilet paper. Are they building some fiendish weapon with it, or just destabilising western society by causing panic?
Well, so far my prayers are being answered. The corona virus is not yet collapsing the SA market and we have a buyer for the house we left. The problem my wife faces is how to invest the money. In what? So far she has a balanced portfolio in anticipation - unlike some who promote one strategy or the other.Have you prayed for the virus to be eradicated altogether? Or at least, the vaccine to be successfully developed and tested?
The Hindu's first god still worshiped by 20,000,000 people is Purusha, the Cosmic man. A lot like Elohim. But it is taught there that other gods came out of him. With truths for Christians like the feminine principle and threeness. It is not pantheism.He really wanted interdependence.It is nonsense to say "God wanted X". The omniscient, omnipotent creator of everything, creates exactly what he wants.
Are you sure ? :)
I would have to take the Pantheist view of god, a god which is an automaton. The universe is the way it is because that is how it responds. Any other definition of a god is a fraction of the universe, ie a demi god, or an attempt to explain aspects of the universe in terms a peasant can understand. Hinduisms supreme deity if you read up about it, is pantheist. All the little gods like shiva etc are attempts to explain to peasants different aspects of the supreme deity.
I would also raise the question of where do people think their consciousness/soul resides. ?
Well, so far my prayers are being answered. The corona virus is not yet collapsing the SA market and we have a buyer for the house we left. The problem my wife faces is how to invest the money. In what? So far she has a balanced portfolio in anticipation - unlike some who promote one strategy or the other.Have you prayed for the virus to be eradicated altogether? Or at least, the vaccine to be successfully developed and tested?
Just started watching. I see they have episode 5 called "Prayers Might Work".We already have studies which show that placebo effect does work. We also know that people are susceptible to confirmation bias. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or strengthens one's prior personal beliefs or hypotheses.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply-entrenched beliefs.When prayer doesn't work, they tend to forget it. But when it does work, they strengthen their believe to the power of their prayer. Hence, no matter how low the probability of their prayer to work, they tend to strengthen their believe to the power of their prayer.
People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
A series of psychological experiments in the 1960s suggested that people are biased toward confirming their existing beliefs. Later work re-interpreted these results as a tendency to test ideas in a one-sided way, focusing on one possibility and ignoring alternatives. In certain situations, this tendency can bias people's conclusions. Explanations for the observed biases include wishful thinking and the limited human capacity to process information. Another explanation is that people show confirmation bias because they are weighing up the costs of being wrong, rather than investigating in a neutral, scientific way. However, even scientists and intelligent people can be prone to confirmation bias.[2]
Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Poor decisions due to these biases have been found in political, organizational and scientific contexts.[3][4]. For example, confirmation bias produces systematic errors in research based on inductive reasoning.
a recognition of the limitations of science.So far, science has been the only thing working in our favour. A medic diagnosed the disease and was promptly silenced by a government more interested in conformity than common sense - just like the Pope in former times.
Crisis requires people to examine even the most basic of daily routines. I was told that in the SA army in the bush war troops were given 1 sheet of toilet paper a day.They were not the only ones.
Just started watching. I see they have episode 5 called "Prayers Might Work".
When prayer doesn't work, they tend to forget it. But when it does work, they strengthen their believe to the power of their prayer. Hence, no matter how low the probability of their prayer to work, they tend to strengthen their believe to the power of their prayer.
Have a nice day.
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.Post a diary.
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.
It struck me that the Alcoholics Anonymous requirement for faith in a Higher Power is one example of the statistical method to prove God exists.Then you need to re-read the stuff about confirmation bias.
Dogbert is right. Without the social upheavals of the past, the rich get richer for a number of reasons.One such social upheaval is is the reduction of the influence of the churches.
They also need to limit pollution, climate change and over-population. They cannot do this in good times. Hopefully they have the leadership to do it in bad times.You have that the wrong way round.
While on the topic of what is the best type of government, my research into religion also took me into research on types of government.And there goes any remaining credibility you may have had.
Interestingly, one really good one is Fascism.
Quotefrom: CliveG on Today at 07:52:53
It struck me that the Alcoholics Anonymous requirement for faith in a Higher Power is one example of the statistical method to prove God exists.
Then you need to re-read the stuff about confirmation bias.
ou are saying that any statistically proven evidence of God HAS to be confirmation bias (or another brain malfunction) BECAUSE science has proven that there is no GodNo.
Am I correct that you are saying that science has proven there is no God?No you are , as usual, wrong..
You keep using that in your logic.No
You are so convinced that there is no God that you put all your faith in logical fallacies such as confirmation bias, faulty memories, pareidolia, hallucination and plain human imagination. What do you call your absolute faith in these explanations that leave not the slightest possibility for God or spirit as a possible explanation?No.
Maybe some-one could reduce your argument to a series of logical statements and see if I am correct that you incorporate the non-existence of God into your logic to arrive at the conclusions you do?No, they could not.
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 08:08:14
Dogbert is right. Without the social upheavals of the past, the rich get richer for a number of reasons.
One such social upheaval is is the reduction of the influence of the churches.
If their scriptures still held sway, we would still have slaves and witch burning.
You seem to forget that (at least on a science web page) the burden of proof is on you.
And I gave you a statistical scientific study that appears to prove that faith in God works.remind me- where did you think you had done that?
Many of these "laws" are acknowledged as out dated.Christ didn't.
People have believed in evil forces and people who do evil long before organized religion. In Zimbabwe, only a few decades ago the tribes would put a group of people (men, woman and children) into a hut and burn it down in order to remove the evil that was causing their crops to fail.You seem not to realise that those beliefs- that burning the people in the hut will help - are religion.
You do it with God and you do it with the Christian and Muslim religions. The others you give a pass for various reasons.
The burden of proof is now on you to prove that the study is in someway flawed - and the faith element is NOT due to the existence of God. All you have done is suggest another mechanism. Prove it is the only mechanism - and not God.That's absurd.
Many of these "laws" are acknowledged as out dated.Christ didn't.
He said they were here until the end of time.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-18.htm
People have believed in evil forces and people who do evil long before organized religion. In Zimbabwe, only a few decades ago the tribes would put a group of people (men, woman and children) into a hut and burn it down in order to remove the evil that was causing their crops to fail.You seem not to realise that those beliefs- that burning the people in the hut will help - are religion.
It's especially ironic given thisYou do it with God and you do it with the Christian and Muslim religions. The others you give a pass for various reasons.
Well that's exactly my point.
I treat all the religions the same.
You pretend that some are "good" and others aren't " organized religion".
The burden of proof is now on you to prove that the study is in someway flawed - and the faith element is NOT due to the existence of God. All you have done is suggest another mechanism. Prove it is the only mechanism - and not God.That's absurd.
If I said " Pixies did it - prove I'm wrong" you would recognise that it's not your job to explain away my fantastic idea.
Just why do you keep equating God to a mythical creatureBecause He is.
a mythical creature clearly invented to entertain childrenThe Pixies were not invented to entertain children.
I can tell you that in my research on various religions I also took another look at Christianity.
The tribes is South Africa and Zimbabwe had no Gods that I am aware of. The witchdoctor was all-powerfulAll powerful- so... a God then?
I suspect that many people who commit suicide or do something really strange may have been commanded to do so by demons.I'm now trying to work out if that's a bigger confession than
my research into religion also took me into research on types of government.
Interestingly, one really good one is Fascism.
And I gave you a statistical scientific study that appears to prove that faith in God works.remind me- where did you think you had done that?
Just why do you keep equating God to a mythical creatureBecause He is.
The evidence in support of Him could equally well be used to support the existence of pixies.
It's not an "atheist tactic".
It's a logical equivalence that you can't seem to grasp.a mythical creature clearly invented to entertain childrenThe Pixies were not invented to entertain children.
They were part of an established religion.
So, once again we find ourselves wondering how bad your research must have been.I can tell you that in my research on various religions I also took another look at Christianity.The tribes is South Africa and Zimbabwe had no Gods that I am aware of. The witchdoctor was all-powerfulAll powerful- so... a God then?
Did they have a creation myth?
I suspect that many people who commit suicide or do something really strange may have been commanded to do so by demons.I'm now trying to work out if that's a bigger confession thanmy research into religion also took me into research on types of government.
Interestingly, one really good one is Fascism.
Do you advocate drilling holes in the head to let the demons out?
Are demons somehow allergic to antipsychotic drugs or something?
If I said that Bored Chemist is a viral artificial internet demon would that be considered a valid logical equivalence?No.
Pixies part of a religion! Which one would that be then?Celtic paganism.
It seems you operate on the basis of "If I have not experienced such things then they do not exist."It seems that way to you.
Apparently the medical knowledge gained from Nazi concentration camps is considered valuable researchApparent to whom? Can you cite one such fact that was previously unknown, published between 1936 and 1945, verified, and of future value to medical practice? Or does this just consist with your earlier assertion that fascism is a good form of government?
Apparent to whom? Can you cite one such fact that was previously unknown, published between 1936 and 1945, verified, and of future value to medical practice? Or does this just consist with your earlier assertion that fascism is a good form of government?There might be some such data.
Do you advocate drilling holes in the head to let the demons out?
Finally, the world is coming to realize what a pandemic might do.The world knew.
I am quite convinced it will happen.The current death rate is about 1%
So what one should be asking is how credible my message is.It is laughable.
Do you advocate drilling holes in the head to let the demons out?
So, for the third time of asking
Quote from: Bored chemist on 15/03/2020 09:40:15
Do you advocate drilling holes in the head to let the demons out?
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 06:57:02
So what one should be asking is how credible my message is.
It is laughable.
The current death rate is about 1%
Fox News had nothing but corona stories.Citing faux news does not improve your credibility.
1%. Can you back that with statistics? A link perhaps. Why is the medical profession the most worried?It's an order of magnitude estimate. Yes I have stats.
Why is the medical profession the most worried?Because 1% of people dying is a bad thing.
if the message I got is correct, the die-off has started. The world needs a die-off in the billions to stop global warming and not just a few thousand.
has been hit harder than any other countrySo, you deliberately pick the hardest hit case and resent it as if it's some sort of "typical" figure.
Still in denial. I take it you are not in a "hot" zone.So, remind me, what have I "denied"?
It is interesting that gold is not rising.Err. yes... if you like...
Max Keiser did an interview of John Rubino (DollarCollapes.com).It's a bit like worship; you can post about God or Mammon, but not both.
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/483230-vaccine-covid-19-pandemic/
at 22 minutes:
John says that there are two scenarios to fix a broken financial system. The 1930s deflationary depression where all the debt gets wiped off through default, or a Wiemar Germany hyperinflation where one attempts to wipe out the debt by inflating it away. Both are extremely painful. No other way to normality. But BC will come to the rescue - we hope.
Before 2008, the Fed said it knew how to break the cycle of boom and bust. Alan Greenspan was revered as such a guru and financial expert, but he was trying to flout the basics of economics - as if the second law of thermodynamics could be ignored and entropy reversed. They are still trying to keep a zombie economy afloat.
My wife and I do not know how or where to invest at a time like this. We have just not put all our eggs in one basket, and are hoping that diversification will help. The long lines at the supermarkets are quite clear in Joburg. Traffic in the streets is down. How does one quarantine a squatter camp? How do people who live from day to day stay in a 2 x 2 meter tin shack for 30 to 60 days?
But why are such people not among the explosion of cases as they normally are? They are the drivers, the porters, the cleaners and so on.
While I agree with Max on many things, cryptocurrency is not one of them. It is interesting that gold is not rising. For two reasons - those who have bought in 2008 and are holding on, and those who need to sell to pay their margin calls.
Why is the medical profession the most worried?Professionally, because an epidemic is reputationally harmful.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:04:54
It is interesting that gold is not rising.
Err. yes... if you like...
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 07:56:28
Fox News had nothing but corona stories.
Citing faux news does not improve your credibility.
It's a bit like worship; you can post about God or Mammon, but not both.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 07:56:28
Still in denial. I take it you are not in a "hot" zone.
So, remind me, what have I "denied"?
It's not clear how "hot" this zone (The UK) is. I have been sent home from work.
Huh? God does not like the worship of money. I am pointing that out.So, nothing to do with the topic then.
Just as the afterlife judgement will surely come to passNo it won't.
In one week, all news outlets are solid corona related. In one week, the enormity of what we face has hit home.It has been on the news here for months.
Praying that God helps.Come off it, Clive. God created COVID inter alia to put your wife's employees on the breadline (not that there's any bread). An omniscient being has no defence of "unintended consequences" - this is deliberate impoverishment and murder on a global scale. Why on earth should he change his mind in response to your petty grumbling?
Huh? God does not like the worship of money. I am pointing that out.So, nothing to do with the topic then.
Why did you preach it at us?
Don't bother to answer that, just try to stick to the point in future. This thread's long enough.
Just as the afterlife judgement will surely come to passNo it won't.
Stop begging the question
In one week, all news outlets are solid corona related. In one week, the enormity of what we face has hit home.It has been on the news here for months.
However, if you look at the video here, you can see that Fox started off by belittling the threat, and only recently caught up with the rest of the world.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/media/fox-news-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/media/fox-news-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html
Praying that God helps.Come off it, Clive. God created COVID inter alia to put your wife's employees on the breadline (not that there's any bread). An omniscient being has no defence of "unintended consequences" - this is deliberate impoverishment and murder on a global scale. Why on earth should he change his mind in response to your petty grumbling?
humankind can learn from its mistakes.Garbage. Eating bats may well be a mistake, but visiting Singapore on business and going skiing with friends without knowing you are infected, isn't. The mistake that "humankind" is making seems to be trying to treat people with infectious disease and thereby getting infected. I don't recall a majority vote of all humans to silence the doctor who first identified the disease. Humankind is suffering from the mistakes and dogmatic idiocy of a few, not the entire species.
My wife has earned her place in heaven, but I can see how blessed she is on this earth. Just another bit of evidence that there is a good probability that God exists.Non sequitur. Evidence of a benign human capitalist, yes. And clearly one fighting against the disaster your god has wrought upon the innocent.
So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.Worse than that, Clive's God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
You seem to hold to finding much fault with the Father of Jesus Bored Chemist, what is the root of your disagreement and why do you hold fast?So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.Worse than that, Clive's God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
To top it off, he then convinced the people that it was their fault.
Nasty piece of work.
So Clive's god doesn't actually create or ordain anything, but is a spectator. Hardly worth a mention, let alone a crusade.Worse than that, Clive's God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
To top it off, he then convinced the people that it was their fault.
Nasty piece of work.
Alan and BC are conflating all these Gods in order to discredit the CG God.It is implausible that the OP and the first 90 replies in this thread referred to your own personal guess about God.
God can listen to every prayer and grant even some small ones.He knew what prayer would be spoken, and He knew what answer He would give. The concept of an all knowing God is inconsistent with prayer actually working.
what is the root of your disagreementWell, I thought it was obvious but, for the hard of thinking.
God put the serpent in the garden of Eden (knowing full well what the consequences would be), then blamed humanity for the consequences of His own act.
To top it off, he then convinced the people that it was their fault.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 13/03/2020 17:40:24
Quote from: CliveG on 13/03/2020 17:15:34
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.
Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.
I had to double check who the poster was. Such a logical common sense post.
Getting angry about mass murder and global suffering misses the point.In a rational world, this would go down as the most ridiculous statement ever made. It encapsulates everything that is morally, intellectually and practically disgraceful about religion.
Getting angry about mass murder and global suffering misses the point.In a rational world, this would go down as the most ridiculous statement ever made. It encapsulates everything that is morally, intellectually and practically disgraceful about religion.
You said:
An omniscient being has no defence of "unintended consequences" - this is deliberate impoverishment and murder on a global scale. Why on earth should he change his mind in response to your petty grumbling?
I responded:
Getting angry about mass murder and global suffering misses the point. Yes, the trajectory is known by God who chooses to let a mass Die-Off happen. He helps some and not others. In most cases, it does not affect the grand plan but if there is someone who is destined to be a great leader they will be protected.
Personally, I blame the internet, digital television, electric cars, and salted caramel. All the work of Satan. When I was a lad, we had to make do with diphtheria, scarlet fever, and two postal deliveries a day. Five Woodbines and a pint of jellied eels at Christmas. None of your fancy electrosmog - we had the real thing, powered by coal and inducing proper British bronchitis, not your mass-produced Chinese stuff. We were poor but we were happy.
There is nothing to indicate that I may be wrong that cell phone radiation either 1) stimulates corona virus, 2) decreases immune systems or 3) aggravates existing conditions - or all of the above.... apart from science.
Remember how I complain about stomach pains and diarrhea when exposed to to radiation next to the tower for more than a few hours?So, are you now saying you were wrong; it wasn't the cell phone mast, but coronavirus or something?
https://www.foxnews.com/health/early-symptom-coronavirus-might-be-digestive-issues-study
Could diarrhea and other gastrointestinal issues be the first signs of the novel coronavirus, also known as COVID-19? Yes, at least according to one study published Thursday in The American Journal of Gastroenterology.
The CG God allows free will and accepts suffering as part of the plan of the Ultimate Intelligence.You are saying that your so called God, does what this "Ultimate Intelligence" tells it to.
My proposal is that the Prime Cause is an Ultimate Intelligence that simply exists and has always existed.So, by any conventional definition that Prime Cause, is God.
The CG God allows free will and accepts suffering as part of the plan of the Ultimate Intelligence.So the hallmark of ultimate intelligence is to do bugger-all. That's morally bankrupt.
I am reminded of working alone next to townships while rioting was taking place in SA in the 1970s. I had a loaded gun with a round in the chamber and the safety off. On the table or walking to my car I had a 17 round magazine and another 17 round magazine. People said you will not stop a rampaging mob. I replied that I understood that, but would take many with me. The principle in all mass charges is that when the others next to a person dies, each person simply takes it as affirmation that they will not die and can continue the charge. Until the mob is down to just a couple.Forgive me if I'm mistaken. I assume you are white skinned.
I am reminded of working alone next to townships while rioting was taking place in SA in the 1970s. I had a loaded gun with a round in the chamber and the safety off. On the table or walking to my car I had a 17 round magazine and another 17 round magazine. People said you will not stop a rampaging mob. I replied that I understood that, but would take many with me. The principle in all mass charges is that when the others next to a person dies, each person simply takes it as affirmation that they will not die and can continue the charge. Until the mob is down to just a couple.Forgive me if I'm mistaken. I assume you are white skinned.
How did it all work out for you?
While I do not "tempt fate" or do anything stupid
Once, I took a black worker home in 1976 - the height of the riots in Soweto.
While I do not "tempt fate" or do anything stupidOnce, I took a black worker home in 1976 - the height of the riots in Soweto.
Out of context.OK.
While I do not "tempt fate" or do anything stupid I have always know when I will be safe. Once, I took a black worker home in 1976 - the height of the riots in Soweto.
The CG God allows free will and accepts suffering as part of the plan of the Ultimate Intelligence.So the hallmark of ultimate intelligence is to do bugger-all. That's morally bankrupt.
So here I am giving you God's message from all my learningExcept, as I have pointed out, your learning is rather thin, and biassed.
I experienced the Ultimate IntelligenceNone of us did.
They want me to do a miracle to first provide proof.I asked you to posta diary. That's hardly the same thing.
Out of context.OK.
Here it is in contextWhile I do not "tempt fate" or do anything stupid I have always know when I will be safe. Once, I took a black worker home in 1976 - the height of the riots in Soweto.
So here I am giving you God's message from all my learningExcept, as I have pointed out, your learning is rather thin, and biassed.I experienced the Ultimate IntelligenceNone of us did.
Possibly nobody else did.
And yet you refuse to consider the most likely reason; it's not real, justa dream.They want me to do a miracle to first provide proof.I asked you to posta diary. That's hardly the same thing.
I "knew" I could drive through and not have a problem. It was deserted because of the warnings. But the area was also empty of people. Was this taking a stupid risk or tempting fate?No, it's making a deduction, based on evidence.
And why do you refuse to consider the possibility I might be the real deal?I told you that already.
And why do you refuse to consider the possibility I might be the real deal?I told you that already.
Occam's razor.
Why don't you
listen?
Are you suggesting that the Almighty should change his mind? Or that the laws of physics, which underpins chemistry, which determines biology, should be suspended for the convenience of one species over another?
Chutzpah! Homo sapiens is being punished for eating God's chosen species. We should have learned our place in Creation when the Lord protected gorillas by infecting them with ebola, but apparently He needed to protect bats too.
The infection rates are soaring and so are some death tolls.Pedant speaking. Why do journalists tell us that "the death toll has increased"? It cannot decrease!!! The only credible and newsworthy headline would be "no further deaths".
Is there anyone who now doubts this is serious - and not equivalent to the flu?The President of the United States, and all True Believers therein. It is a communist plot, from which America will rise all the greater, as long as folk continue to buy coal, guns and toilet paper. Socialised medicine and public health laboratories are the tools of Satan. Heil to the Fuhrer.
what is your problem with my hypothesis?It lacks evidence, explains nothing, and is not predictive.
I say up - you say down.No
I say white - you say black.
I say right - you say either wrong or left.
Are you suggesting that the Almighty should change his mind?They call that prayer.
he only "simple" explanation is the existence of God.That's just wrong on the facts.
Yesterday my wife spoke to an older German lady. She that the governments are talking about being at war. She said it is an awfully quiet conflict. She remembers the sound of planes roaring overhead in Germany and the terrifying sound of bombs dropping.
She said she feels that this is a result of humans disrespecting the Earth and nature. She hopes it will cause people to "wake up". "Woke" is now not only relevant to racial and social justice but to respect for our one and only Planet.
The infection rates are soaring and so are some death tolls. When one hears of doctors and nurses dying the virulence strikes home. Four people in one family in one week dying and other family members hospitalized. The USA has been slow to respond, especially with test kits. Check the news media for January and February. The lack of concern amazed me (BC - give me percentage coverage for each outlet for each week if you wish to be contrary). There was little or no preparation.
Is there anyone who now doubts this is serious - and not equivalent to the flu?
The infection rates are soaring and so are some death tolls.Pedant speaking. Why do journalists tell us that "the death toll has increased"? It cannot decrease!!! The only credible and newsworthy headline would be "no further deaths".
Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #102 on: 30/09/2019 11:13:36 »
It comes down to your motivation. If you are trying to test the existence of God, that is not allowed. If you want to get fame and recognition, that again is a selfish act. God wants people to strive to do good - not fill out an application form. God only intervenes for small personal requests that are easy to do and difficult to prove his/her existence, or the intervention is to guide the destiny of humankind.
These last interventions can different forms. One is that he can do nothing to prevent a pandemic like the Black Plague. Another is that he can stop a pandemic from spreading at a time it would direct humankind in the wrong direction. He is going to do nothing to stop the pending die-off which has already started but people are ignoring it and will ignore it until too late.
I say up - you say down.No
I say white - you say black.
I say right - you say either wrong or left.
Here's the corrected version
I say up - you "where's the evidence?".
I say white - you say "where's the evidence?".
I say right - you say "where's the evidence?".
And until you recognise that evidence doesn't mean one person's experience, you're not going to understand why we are not making progress here.
Please try to give the idea some thought.
I give a message and information and no-one wants to believe. They want me to do a miracle to first provide proof. I am giving my credentials by way of a logical hypothesis and a long list of personal experiences. Of course, believers are not open to new ideas. They do not want to change. They fear that Satan might be influencing me. They too want a miracle - a big one.
I blame the cell tower once more for starting it.You live in South Africa.
Evidence? See my last post. Or is my prediction of an imminent pandemic not Good enough for you? Lucky guess? Yeah right.OK, a few other people not only preempted a pandemic, but wrote films about it.
Please try to give the concept some thought.
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 06:41:06
I blame the cell tower once more for starting it.
You live in South Africa.
It's Sunny.
Timing, dear BC, timing.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
Are you saying all these people are psychic, or just that a pandemic is inevitable.
People have been writing about (and predicting) plagues since biblical times at least.
Why do you think you are special, just because you predicted something inevitable?
Timing, dear BC, timing.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc
The joke's pushing it but ... it illustrates a point.
For years, people have known out that exposure to german measles causes a red rash all over and that exposure to the Sun causes melanoma.
You seem to be taking the view that the German officer should blame his walkie talkie for the rash.
Do you not see why that's absurd?
The question is "Was there a trigger?". If so, what could it be? When one looks at all the scientific studies about cell tower radiation there is a very high probability that the cell tower was the trigger.No, for two reasons.
You look for the tiniest of excuses to avoid the obvious.And again; get yourself a mirror.
Wiki, for example, is utterly clear on the issue.
"Melanomas are usually caused by DNA damage resulting from exposure to ultraviolet light from the sun."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma#Cause
The first is that the evidence of cell towers causing cancer is- to be polite- sketchy.
Cell company propaganda.Show us the evidence.
Do you still use your radium dial watch,No, but I'd not worry if I did.
And do you still drive your leaded gasoline car because for eleven years the industry scientists were saying that the environmental lead being found had always been there?No
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 10:44:05Wiki, for example, is utterly clear on the issue."Melanomas are usually caused by DNA damage resulting from exposure to ultraviolet light from the sun."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma#CauseNote the qualification ("usually") in your statement We have been through this.And as with any cancer, there's strong genetic element in the statistics, with red-haired "Celtic" ancestry very significant, whilst "Scandinavian" blondes (who tend to bronze rather than burn in the sun) are less prone to melanoma. Check your wife's family tree!
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 11:12:41Do you still use your radium dial watch,No, but I'd not worry if I did.It's an alpha emitter in an enclosed space. The external dose is pretty small.
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 10:44:05Wiki, for example, is utterly clear on the issue."Melanomas are usually caused by DNA damage resulting from exposure to ultraviolet light from the sun."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanoma#CauseNote the qualification ("usually") in your statement We have been through this.And as with any cancer, there's strong genetic element in the statistics, with red-haired "Celtic" ancestry very significant, whilst "Scandinavian" blondes (who tend to bronze rather than burn in the sun) are less prone to melanoma. Check your wife's family tree!
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 11:12:41Do you still use your radium dial watch,No, but I'd not worry if I did.It's an alpha emitter in an enclosed space. The external dose is pretty small.
Though enough to reliably print the numbers on a nurse's film badge (she was wearing her mother's watch over the badge) and scare the willies out of a chiropractic client who kept his grandad's old aviator watch in the same drawer as his TLD badge.
Though enough to reliably print the numbers on a nurse's film badge (she was wearing her mother's watch over the badge)That's hardly credible.
And as with any cancer, there's strong genetic elementYes; she's white, and fair.
BC, what evidence are you using to get less that 1%.Wrong tense, but here's the data I was using
I said to my wife that the virus is targeting the older people,Like practically every other virus, and indeed, illness known.
I am sure they are helpful enough to perhaps survive.
I say there is sufficient evidence to include cell tower radiation.
That's hardly credible.Scattering and distance would mean they were blurred out of existence..I saw the film. A ring of black blobs around two faint grey circles. There's very little scatter of radium gamma radiation (100 - 600 keV) in glass, or even metals - it's been used for industrial radiography in the past. Sadly, I've lost the old pocket watch I used to use for assessing lead protection in x-ray rooms, and now have to lug a veterinary x-ray machine around. Had an interesting callout a year ago when a couple of ex-US Navy aviation sextants set off the alarms at Heathrow, and I remember some years back when we cleared out a cupboard at the National Physical Laboratory to discover the source of anomalous readings was a textbook that had been the personal property of Marie Curie, now in a lead box in the museum!
reliably print the numbers
A ring of black blobs
That's hardly credible.Scattering and distance would mean they were blurred out of existence..I saw the film. A ring of black blobs around two faint grey circles. There's very little scatter of radium gamma radiation (100 - 600 keV) in glass, or even metals - it's been used for industrial radiography in the past. Sadly, I've lost the old pocket watch I used to use for assessing lead protection in x-ray rooms, and now have to lug a veterinary x-ray machine around. Had an interesting callout a year ago when a couple of ex-US Navy aviation sextants set off the alarms at Heathrow, and I remember some years back when we cleared out a cupboard at the National Physical Laboratory to discover the source of anomalous readings was a textbook that had been the personal property of Marie Curie, now in a lead box in the museum!
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 14:53:36
BC, what evidence are you using to get less that 1%.
Wrong tense, but here's the data I was using
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
For anyone under 50 (and that's most people) it's below 1%
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
Happy?
"So if left unchecked a third of the USA will be infected. 5 million will die."
So that's 5 million dead out of about 300 million people. About 1.7%.
It's not as if our estimates are that different.
I keep saying your reading comprehension and your math needs some work.
The mortality rate is the number of deaths per infections, not total population.
Wireless radiation is one of the many types of environmental pollution that can damage the immune system.
I keep saying your reading comprehension and your math needs some work.The mortality rate is the number of deaths per infections, not total population.
The thing that matters is how many people die, not how many get infected.
The death rate will be about 1 or 2%.
However, you seem to be grasping very tightly to the straw that 1% isn't the same as 2 or even 4, while ignoring the actual point.
(You can tell it's the point, because it's actually on topic)
Even a 5% death rate does not reduce reduce the population much, of for long.
So, if it's God's solution to overpopulation, it's incompetent.
Why do you praise such a rubbishy God?
Wireless radiation is one of the many types of environmental pollution that can damage the immune system.
Just to remind you. We will dismiss that claim without evidence.
Ebola and MERS are not worth worrying about according to you.Nonsense.
The Die-Off is not an end to itself.No need for God to invoke one then (because He could do much better) and, thus, no need for further discussion of it in this thread.
It is not that there is no evidence,Looking through this thread, there has been no evidence.
Here is a message entitled Corona has its AdvantagesIn the form of people fighting in a supermarket over a few rolls of toilet paper- in a world where many people have no toilet.
- It has brought back humanity
- Brought people back to their Creator and their moralsNo, it just hasn't. Unless yo think that fighting over bog roll is what the Creator wants.
- It has closed down bars, night clubs, brothel and casinosAnd recreated speakeasys where crime can thrive becaus eteh whole enterprise id illegal.
- It has brought back humanity-in the form of panic buying and violence in supermarkets, and black market prices for essentials.
Brought people back to their Creator and their morals-=evidence of a sudden upsurge in morality> Not seen.
It has closed down bars, night clubs, brothel and casinos-so regulated, social eating and drinking has been replaced by solitary home consumption of (cheaper) alcohol, and musicians are out of work. Not sure about brothels.
It has brought down interest ratesfrom 0.5% to 0.25% is hardly a big deal for borrowers (if the factory is shut, there's no point in buying stock or plant) , and a death blow for investors.
Brought families togethercrammed, not brought, for the vast majority. And separated the elderly from their grandchildren.
Stopped people eating dead and forbidden animalsAFAIK the only animals regularly eaten live are oysters, and much of that trade has been stopped by an outbreak of norovirus in France. Pork and bacon are still flying off the shelves - the ultimate comfort food.
Moved one third of military expenditure to health careexcept in war zones.
Arab countries have banned shishajust catching up with the civilised world, which would happen eventually anyway
It is pushing people to prayersan activity within Einstein's definition of insanity, or worse - defiance of the expressed wish of the Almighty!
It undermines dictators and their powersTrump, Putin, Al-Assad, Ali Khamenei, all seem to be running their offensive domains much as before
Humans are now worshiping God rather than progress and technology -So we are praying for ventilation, not making ventilators, eh?
It is forcing authorities to look at their prisons and prisonersindeed, with the police in many countries now arresting people for shopping, not shoplifiting.
It has taught humans how to sneeze, yawn and coughall of which are classified as autonomic reflexes in all mammals.
It is making us stay at home and live simple livesand why is that a Good Thing? I would rather be out doing complicated things with medical x-rays.
It is from an ex_MPa professional purveyor of bullshit. That explains a lot.
- Stopped people eating dead and forbidden animals
The SA government has imposed a 21 day shut-down and lock-down starting Thursday mid-night.Perhaps they should just keep going with what they were doing, but pray a bit.
The army has been called out.
No domestic worker will be able to go to work. Our factory will have no workers. Not much government assistance. No compulsory 10-20% contribution from over-paid government officials toward relieving hardship for the poor. Two businessmen gave R1 billion each to the Solidarity Fund (who gets and why is not specified).
My wife and I are in shock.
The government has recognized that SA has one of the highest AID infections in the world and also highest TB rates. They know this country could implode. The ministers will no doubt still have banquets and live high on the hog. Zimbabwe is an example. But a revolution of desperate people could overthrow regimes.
Interesting times. Testing times. I could home sitting here on my computer. Hardware stores closed so projects stop.
- Stopped people eating dead and forbidden animals
Forbidden?
But a revolution of desperate people could overthrow regimes.It took 100 years to do so in SA, and there's no evidence that the current regime is any less able to suppress common sense and decency.
I am making a long list of things to buy and get done before the shut-down bites. There are so many "essential" services that the lock-down is unlikely to work. No one is wearing masks. People are in dense crowds. This is a recipe for disaster as our economy will collapse. My wife's factory will close without any orders going out. She will have to pay the workers the four weeks pay without them doing any work.Don't you think that all of those are part of God's plans?
The "shake-out" of the world's excesses may be here with a vengeance.
For some, the end is nigh.
I am making a long list of things to buy and get done before the shut-down bites. There are so many "essential" services that the lock-down is unlikely to work. No one is wearing masks. People are in dense crowds. This is a recipe for disaster as our economy will collapse. My wife's factory will close without any orders going out. She will have to pay the workers the four weeks pay without them doing any work.Don't you think that all of those are part of God's plans?
The "shake-out" of the world's excesses may be here with a vengeance.
For some, the end is nigh.
I have a problem with calling a disaster a plan by God. If there was no God (and some say there is not), then this would have probably have happened anyway because of man's inability to control the greed and the lack of compassion for others by those in power.And, therefore, it happening is not evidence of the existence of God.
Most rational people and many scientists and economists could see it coming.So, it's not evidence of some mystical power that you saw it coming (as did the people who wrote those films).
This was put into place by the Ultimate Intelligence who is dreaming.Just how many entities are you going o invoke to make life "simple"?
SA and Thailand have a lack of sexual restraint that is causing high infection rates.Always good to throw a bit of victim blaming into teh mix.
The corona virus is something that seems designed because of its currently known properties.No.
One presumes God will help people who deserve to get through this to get through this.I can pretty much guarantee that your earlier assertion was more nearly right.
The ministers will no doubt still have banquets and live high on the hog..
It has been timedNo it hasn't.
just when the world economy is shakyIt always is.
It seems viral with a touch of bacteria.That's meaningless.
I presume it is a cold. Guest bedroom with a heater on for me tonight. Spraying with colloidal silver.It's a viral infection , so you plan to use an antibacterial.
Which, by the way, is one attribute that people overlook about God. I think he has a sense of humor and appreciates a good jokeIt's hard to see how you think that's not well known.
I presume it is a cold. Guest bedroom with a heater on for me tonight. Spraying with colloidal silver.It's a viral infection , so you plan to use an antibacterial.
Do you even science?Which, by the way, is one attribute that people overlook about God. I think he has a sense of humor and appreciates a good jokeIt's hard to see how you think that's not well known.
"I don't want to start
Any blasphemous rumors
But I think that God's
Got a sick sense of humor
And when I die
I expect to find Him laughing"
If you start ascribing evil to God then you need to check your logic and your assumptions.He created all evil on Earth by deciding to put the serpent in the garden.
Perhaps Trump should hire me as a "psychic advisor"Srsly?
If you start ascribing evil to God then you need to check your logic and your assumptions.He created all evil on Earth by deciding to put the serpent in the garden.
Perhaps Trump should hire me as a "psychic advisor"Srsly?
It depends.Perhaps Trump should hire me as a "psychic advisor"Srsly?
No. Did I need to put a (tongue in cheek) after the comment.
The problem s that the topic is God, and you keep going on about your personal "version" that'sIf you start ascribing evil to God then you need to check your logic and your assumptions.He created all evil on Earth by deciding to put the serpent in the garden.
Yes - according to OT God, NT God, AT God but not CG God. (see earlier post of mine).
Why do you think I keep stating that my hypothesis, borne out by personal experience, is likely correct? No contradictions!
Please show us ANY testable evidence:https://twitter.com/Ah_Science/status/1242134336880750593?s=03
1 A god exists
2 That god is yours
3 You are correctly interpreting its rules
Look up definitions of testable and evidence first.
Not even one whose wife said the only book she'd ever seen him read was Mein Kampf? Who holds rallies of his supporters and encourages them to beat up hecklers wherever he goes? Who sacks any expert who disagrees with his propaganda? Who transports families into separate camps if they don't have the correct documents? Who blames everyone else for his own failings? A germophobe with a very restricted diet.... oh, one could go on, but he doesn't have a moustache, and, being a draft dodger, never rose to the rank of Corporal.
It depends.Perhaps Trump should hire me as a "psychic advisor"Srsly?
No. Did I need to put a (tongue in cheek) after the comment.
Are you serious about believing that you can ever predict the future better than guessing?
The Afrikaans side of my family would say the British who invented the first concentration camps in the worldDo the non-Afrikaans side get it wrong?
Using the word Fuhrer puts blame on all Germans rather than just Hitler.He was democratically elected more than once, adopted the title Fuhrer in place of Kanzler in 1934, and had no problem raising an army who proudly documented their butchery of noncombatants. The behavior of subsequent generations has however been admirable, and it is notable that no subsequent head of state has used the term. Fact is that as soon as I used the word in the context of Trump, everyone understood the allusion and nobody has argued with my analysis of his methods.
British concentration camps refers to camps operated by the British in South Africa during the Second Anglo-Boer War from 1900–1902. The term concentration camp grew in prominence during that period. The camps had originally been set up by the British Army as refugee camps to provide refuge for civilian families who had been forced to abandon their homes for whatever reason related to the war.It turned into a shambles due to overcrowding and disease, but their use for slave labor and industrialised slaughter of civilians was an entirely German innovation. So far, there is no evidence that Trump's camps have produced anything more than misery, but he has yet to be re-elected.
The problem s that the topic is God, and you keep going on about your personal "version" that'sIf you start ascribing evil to God then you need to check your logic and your assumptions.He created all evil on Earth by deciding to put the serpent in the garden.
Yes - according to OT God, NT God, AT God but not CG God. (see earlier post of mine).
Why do you think I keep stating that my hypothesis, borne out by personal experience, is likely correct? No contradictions!
1 Not The Creator.
2 Not the one people worship
and so on
Yes, the British did indeed invent concentration camps.
Quote
British concentration camps refers to camps operated by the British in South Africa during the Second Anglo-Boer War from 1900–1902. The term concentration camp grew in prominence during that period. The camps had originally been set up by the British Army as refugee camps to provide refuge for civilian families who had been forced to abandon their homes for whatever reason related to the war.
It turned into a shambles due to overcrowding and disease, but their use for slave labor and industrialised slaughter of civilians was an entirely German innovation. So far, there is no evidence that Trump's camps have produced anything more than misery, but he has yet to be re-elected.
And God said "Let there not be coronavirus." And there was still coronavirus. "Oh sh1t!", said god, "I don't exist."
Which brings me back to Tarot. The Simpsons correctly predicted Trump's presidency 17 years ago. What odds do the cards give on (a) his re-election (b) a deferred election (c) a constitutional amendment allowing more than two terms or (d) a grateful Senate conferring life presidency over the smoking ruins of civilisation?
How far into the future can you make a prediction?
"Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates."
The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009)So you predicted a pandemic in 2009
Quote from: Bored chemist on 13/03/2020 17:40:24
Quote from: CliveG on 13/03/2020 17:15:34
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.
Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.
I had to double check who the poster was. Such a logical common sense post.
Such logical common sense... that you haven't done it.
You daren't.
The biker was only a matter of 5 minutes. My first four failed marriages were about 4 years each (the cards told me they would be disasters and I ignored them). The hypnotized teenager was only a matter of a couple of hours. My predictions on stock and property markets were only a matter of a month or two. Generally when I use Tarot cards, I do not look further than 6 months when people ask me to look at their future. Trump was about 5 years.
The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009) it would happen but that I had to refine the message because humankind had to learn the lesson of why it was happening. I have vaguely understood the time frame and the plan as it stretched out but I am not privy to the details.
Boers would take their rifles and kill off the English by sighting along the barrelThe fiends! It's utterly unBritish to point the barrel of a rifle at your intended victim. A gentleman would aim upwards and hope that the bullet might eventually fall on the target. This is surely the origin of the term "boorish behaviour." Before you know it, they will be bowling bouncers and lifting in the lineout.
Boers would take their rifles and kill off the English by sighting along the barrelThe fiends! It's utterly unBritish to point the barrel of a rifle at your intended victim. A gentleman would aim upwards and hope that the bullet might eventually fall on the target. This is surely the origin of the term "boorish behaviour." Before you know it, they will be bowling bouncers and lifting in the lineout.
The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009)So you predicted a pandemic in 2009
So, like...
when..
there was...
a pandemic...
I'm rather interested in the paranormal and supernatural, so I'm trying to figure out a way to test this without breaking the rules that you have mentioned. As such, I don't expect you to give exact dates for predictions, but can you predict the year that something will happen? The decade? I'll make a few suggestions here and tell me if any of these are doable:
(1) Can you predict whether or not there is an undiscovered planet in the Solar System? Just to draw a line between what is and is not a planet (since there are no doubt plenty of Pluto-sized objects out there waiting to be discovered), I'll put a lower mass limit equal to Mars on that. I would use the current definition of a planet (orbits the Sun, is rounded by its own gravity and has cleared its orbit), but the last criterion might be tricky to satisfy for something out there in the Kuiper belt with all of those other objects floating around. If it does exist, can you predict the year it will be found? Or the decade?
(2) What about dark matter? Can you predict what it is and what year it will be detected?
(3) Can you give us a reasonably tight time frame for when the coronavirus vaccine will be developed and/or when it will be available to the public? Which country will be the one to develop it?
(4) Can you predict the year (or at least the decade) when the first humans will set foot on Mars? Or if that will happen at all?
If these are not satisfactory, I will attempt to think of others later.
"Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates."
Does that mean you plan to stop begging t the question and presenting anecdotes as if they were evidence?
I experienced the effects of the cell tower radiation.So, that's a no
Quote from: Bored chemist on 13/03/2020 17:40:24
Quote from: CliveG on 13/03/2020 17:15:34
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.
Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.
I had to double check who the poster was. Such a logical common sense post.
Such logical common sense... that you haven't done it.
You daren't.
People should have been ordered to cut a pillow cover and make a mask using an elastic band. I have made these years ago on the farm. The elastic band self ties onto the corners. The masks should be washed with soap everyday.
"The book Animal Farm teaches that some are more equal than others."And recent US history shows that lots of people believe what the pigs say. I'm surprised your countrymen are as gullible.
They work for me and my wife because they are regarded as "personal anecdotes" byskepticspeople who understand evidence.
And God said "Let there not be coronavirus." And there was still coronavirus. "Oh sh1t!", said god, "I don't exist."Lol!!
"The book Animal Farm teaches that some are more equal than others."And recent US history shows that lots of people believe what the pigs say. I'm surprised your countrymen are as gullible.
And God said "Let there not be coronavirus." And there was still coronavirus. "Oh sh1t!", said god, "I don't exist."Lol!!
CliveG I feel very bad for you. You have been dealt a bad hand in life by irrational beliefs. It isn't your fault that you cannot determine a rational explanation from a fictional one. However, it is on you to seek out the truth. Stop believing every thing any bad faith actor tells you. You are only deluding yourself.
And God said "I will allow Satan to create and spread corona virus". And it was so. And it was bad. And many skeptics cease to exist, along with many other people. And God was sad because it did not have to be so. Would humans learn the lesson?And in all His infinite wisdom, he couldn't do a better job of teaching than killing random people.
And God said "Let there not be coronavirus." And there was still coronavirus. "Oh sh1t!", said god, "I don't exist."Lol!!
And God said "I will allow Satan to create and spread corona virus". And it was so. And it was bad. And many skeptics cease to exist, along with many other people. And God was sad because it did not have to be so. Would humans learn the lesson?
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God? I was A2A on a question about turning into an atheist at 13 years of age. It bothered me deeply and I came to question my own beliefs. I'm at a crossroad. Help me through logical answers.Your first question, "Can science prove God exists?" indicates you don't know the answer or you are open to finding out. Your second question, "Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God?", answers your first question definitively.
Your first question, "Can science prove God exists?" indicates you don't know the answer or you are open to finding out. Your second question, "Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God?", answers your first question definitively.As far as I can tell, the second does not answer the first.
And God said "I will allow Satan to create and spread corona virus". And it was so. And it was bad. And many skeptics cease to exist, along with many other people. And God was sad because it did not have to be so. Would humans learn the lesson?And in all His infinite wisdom, he couldn't do a better job of teaching than killing random people.
That's a really rubbish God, isn't it?
Do you want a boring perfect world, or do you want some degree of freedom albeit vibrant and interesting.
Why blame GodBecause it's His fault.
Why do you not blame Satan?Well, if he exists, he's directly God's fault so...
You reject the Ultimate Truth, the Ultimate Reality because it does not suit you?No I reject it because it's a fairy tale you made up with no supporting evidence.
My wife's family and friends are committed Christians and they get rewarded. They have deathYes...
Were they ignored by scientistsNo
Could one dedicate a branch of science to looking ...No.
Why did the political, scientific and economic communities not see this coming?They did.
And God said "Let there not be coronavirus." And there was still coronavirus. "Oh sh1t!", said god, "I don't exist."Lol!!
And God said "I will allow Satan to create and spread corona virus". And it was so. And it was bad. And many skeptics cease to exist, along with many other people. And God was sad because it did not have to be so. Would humans learn the lesson?
Here we go! So your God wishes people dead. It wants another fictional character to kill them. AND YOU SUPPORT AND PROMOTE THAT! That makes you a terrible person. Just take 5 minutes to think that through. Ask yourself why you hate other people so much. You are happy for them to die. You glorify it. Aren't you just a tiny bit ashamed of yourself?
Duffyd: Nice to get back on topic. Please state the observables that can only be ascribed to your god. If your god is not the omnipotent, omniscient and anthropic creator of the universe (i.e. the familiar Judaeo-Christian-Islamic deity), please define its functionality.
One needs to know the attributes of God if we are to give a scientific probability as to his existence.And there's the problem. Every time a believer lists the attributes of his deity, some skeptic (call him a scientist) points out the contradictions and contradictory evidence.
I can't see it, because it's overcast.Duffyd: Nice to get back on topic. Please state the observables that can only be ascribed to your god. If your god is not the omnipotent, omniscient and anthropic creator of the universe (i.e. the familiar Judaeo-Christian-Islamic deity), please define its functionality.
Look to the sun.
How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that I am happy for people to die.Well, you don't seem at all upset about it.
In what way do I glorify it.I don't know. But my guess is that you get up on Sunday + go to church to worship the biggest mass murderer we have ever known.
When it is nighttime? During an eclipse? If it gets cold?I can't see it, because it's overcast.Duffyd: Nice to get back on topic. Please state the observables that can only be ascribed to your god. If your god is not the omnipotent, omniscient and anthropic creator of the universe (i.e. the familiar Judaeo-Christian-Islamic deity), please define its functionality.
Look to the sun.
Does that mean God ceased to be?
How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that I am happy for people to die.Well, you don't seem at all upset about it.In what way do I glorify it.I don't know. But my guess is that you get up on Sunday + go to church to worship the biggest mass murderer we have ever known.
At any rate, you don't say we should despise Him for His actions.
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God? I was A2A on a question about turning into an atheist at 13 years of age. It bothered me deeply and I came to question my own beliefs. I'm at a crossroad. Help me through logical answers.
One needs to know the attributes of God if we are to give a scientific probability as to his existence.And there's the problem. Every time a believer lists the attributes of his deity, some skeptic (call him a scientist) points out the contradictions and contradictory evidence.
Non sequitur.
The existence of the sun is not evidence of my existence, let alone that of an invisible fairy.
Can you cite examples when your god kills with malice aforethought?Not having a god, I can't answer directly, but it is inconceivable that any omniscient and/or omnipotent deity would kill without forethought. Malice is a human judgement, but the imposition of anything from Job's plague of boils to the slow strangulation of cystic fibrosis or motor neurone disease would count as malicious in a court of law.
Always a pleasure to cross swords with a fellow pedant! OK, the existence of the sun is not evidence for the existence of anything else.Non sequitur.
The existence of the sun is not evidence of my existence, let alone that of an invisible fairy.
It is relevant. I don't believe it is accurate to say it is non sequitur.
Absolutely. Never intended to use it as evidence for an invisible fairy.
Not at all. Just the opposite. "Malice" is a legal term and God is not guilty of murder based on its definition. Whether you acknowledge God is or isn't has nothing to do with His status as your God.Can you cite examples when your god kills with malice aforethought?Not having a god, I can't answer directly, but it is inconceivable that any omniscient and/or omnipotent deity would kill without forethought. Malice is a human judgement, but the imposition of anything from Job's plague of boils to the slow strangulation of cystic fibrosis or motor neurone disease would count as malicious in a court of law.
How on Earth do you come to the conclusion that I am happy for people to die.Well, you don't seem at all upset about it.In what way do I glorify it.I don't know. But my guess is that you get up on Sunday + go to church to worship the biggest mass murderer we have ever known.
At any rate, you don't say we should despise Him for His actions.
Science proves God exists to some people.Do you mean in the sense that science also documents the fact that some deluded people think they are Queen Victoria?
Evil is where people throughout history (the Holocaust is but one example) deliberately and with malice aforethought cause suffering and death,It it evil to cause that behaviour to happen?
"Malice" is a legal term and God is not guilty of murder based on its definition.
Malice is a legal term referring to a party's intention to do injury to another party.
Science proves God exists to some people.Do you mean in the sense that science also documents the fact that some deluded people think they are Queen Victoria?
It's true that the belief exists, but not true that they are a dead monarch.
Or are you trying to say that, to some people, science is proof of God?
Because that's just wrong.
Or are you trying to say that there is a group of people to whom science has proved the existence of God?
That's impossible.
Or, what scientific data do you rely upon that proves they are all deluded?That's not what I said.
"Malice" is a legal term and God is not guilty of murder based on its definition.QuoteMalice is a legal term referring to a party's intention to do injury to another party.
So inflicting the plague of boils on Job, destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, The Flood, and every other recorded Act of God including the 230,000 deaths in the 2004 Sumatra tsunami were unintended? If your god isn't guilty of murder, he'd certainly be convicted of manslaughter.
Sin is not just what is committed or omitted. It is inbred, a condition within each of usIt sounds like the God is a twit.
Well, that's good. We agree. Rational, perfectly sane, well adjusted people interpret and rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.Or, what scientific data do you rely upon that proves they are all deluded?That's not what I said.
Sin is not just what is committed or omitted. It is inbred, a condition within each of usIt sounds like the God is a twit.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
"Not guilty by reason of insanity" is another possibility."Malice" is a legal term and God is not guilty of murder based on its definition.QuoteMalice is a legal term referring to a party's intention to do injury to another party.
So inflicting the plague of boils on Job, destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, The Flood, and every other recorded Act of God including the 230,000 deaths in the 2004 Sumatra tsunami were unintended? If your god isn't guilty of murder, he'd certainly be convicted of manslaughter.
rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.No such facts exist.
He promised they would kill him long before they did. Why? He addressed that, too. Men love darkness, he said. He told the elite of his day that they were plotting to murder him because they were the children of satan. They got pissed, to put it mildly. He communicated like no one else in history. He spoke clearly as someone who was from another world.Sin is not just what is committed or omitted. It is inbred, a condition within each of usIt sounds like the God is a twit.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
Oh, He is pure evil to many millions. That surprises you? They hated his guts. Still do. Hate. Murderous hatred. A large, vehement crowd, including many of society's most favored, demanded his blood. And they got it. John, his cousin, lost his head for calling sin, sin.
Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
Men love darkness, he said.Why did He make these faulty men (in His own image)?
Have a look at the updated version.Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
No such facts exist.
He spoke clearly as someone who was from another world.
NoNo such facts exist.
Why do you make that claim? What facts prove you are right?
Have a look at the updated version.Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
The point s that if such proof actually existed, it would be known to all.
Why?Men love darkness, he said.Why did He make these faulty men (in His own image)?
He spoke clearly as someone who was from another world.
Do you want to think that simile through again a few times?
It's as clear as Martian!
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:38:54
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:37:47
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:31:59
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:21:30
rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.
No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.
Have a look at the updated version.
The point s that if such proof actually existed, it would be known to all.
How do you know that?
No
It's your job to provide the extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim>
However, I did explain why it's true.
If such facts existed, everybody would know about them by now.
Just post them on facebook, and wait.
NoNo such facts exist.
Why do you make that claim? What facts prove you are right?
It's your job to provide the extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim>
However, I did explain why it's true.
If such facts existed, everybody would know about them by now.
Just post them on facebook, and wait.
I can't convince you God is.You just acknowledged that you don't have proof.
You have made that claim without any foundation that I can see.There is none so blind as him who will not see.
You have made that claim without any foundation that I can see.There is none so blind as him who will not see.
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'The fact is most of his contemporaries rejected him even as he lived and worked and taught and healed the sick among them day in and day out as a member of the community. He knew that would happen, too. His own rejected him. His very own chosen people could not see what was taking place before their very eyes. "Evidence" is meaningless at times. They loved darkness.
Perhaps I should expand on that.
If you think there are such facts then cite them.
If you are right then, because they are (by definition) revelation of God, then not just I, but everybody will accept them.
But you sayQuote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:38:54
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:37:47
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:31:59
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:21:30
rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.
No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.
Have a look at the updated version.
The point s that if such proof actually existed, it would be known to all.
How do you know that?
And again...No
It's your job to provide the extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim>
However, I did explain why it's true.
If such facts existed, everybody would know about them by now.
Just post them on facebook, and wait.
You have made that claim without any foundation that I can see.
Phillip Zimbardo of Stanford conducted a small experiment with his students. Volunteers were chosen randomly to be fake prisoners or fake guards in a fake makeshift jail, that wasn't a jail at all. Everything was fake. It was an experiment to see how bright, ethical young men would respond as they played their roles.Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:38:54
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:37:47
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:31:59
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:21:30
rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.
No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.
Have a look at the updated version.
The point s that if such proof actually existed, it would be known to all.
How do you know that?
And again...No
It's your job to provide the extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim>
However, I did explain why it's true.
If such facts existed, everybody would know about them by now.
Just post them on facebook, and wait.
Phillip Zimbardo of Stanford conducted a small experiment with his students. Volunteers were chosen randomly to be fake prisoners or fake guards in a fake makeshift jail, that wasn't a jail at all. Everything was fake. It was an experiment to see how bright, ethical young men would respond as they played their roles.So, nothing relevant then?
Zimbardo played the prison superintendent.
In a few days the "evidence" that they were merely playing parts vanished and the situation escalated to an abusive, out of control, dangerous feeding frenzy and they had to shut it down.
Sin is not just what is committed or omitted. It is inbred, a condition within each of usIt sounds like the God is a twit.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
γSin is not just what is committed or omitted. It is inbred, a condition within each of usIt sounds like the God is a twit.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image,
"Their" image.
Jeffrey 20:33
So man created God in his own image.
Exactly what is considered to be evidence? Nothing, I'm afraid, to you.No
Phillip Zimbardo of Stanford conducted a small experiment with his students. Volunteers were chosen randomly to be fake prisoners or fake guards in a fake makeshift jail, that wasn't a jail at all. Everything was fake. It was an experiment to see how bright, ethical young men would respond as they played their roles.Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:38:54
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:37:47
Quote from: Bored chemist on Today at 18:31:59
Quote from: duffyd on Today at 18:21:30
rely upon scientific evidence and many other facts revealing God.
No such facts exist.
People may be mistaken about it.
Your opinion offered without substantive factual backing.
Have a look at the updated version.
The point s that if such proof actually existed, it would be known to all.
How do you know that?
And again...No
It's your job to provide the extraordinary evidence for your extraordinary claim>
However, I did explain why it's true.
If such facts existed, everybody would know about them by now.
Just post them on facebook, and wait.
Zimbardo played the prison superintendent.
In a few days the "evidence" that they were merely playing parts vanished and the situation escalated to an abusive, out of control, dangerous feeding frenzy and they had to shut it down.
Exactly what is considered to be evidence? Nothing, I'm afraid, to you.No
https://www.google.com/search?q=evidence&oq=evidence&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j46j0l4j69i60.2726j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
And, by the way
Exodus 20:16
Exactly what is considered to be evidence? Nothing, I'm afraid, to you.No
https://www.google.com/search?q=evidence&oq=evidence&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j46j0l4j69i60.2726j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
And, by the way
Exodus 20:16
Exactly what is considered to be evidence? Nothing, I'm afraid, to you.No
https://www.google.com/search?q=evidence&oq=evidence&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j46j0l4j69i60.2726j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
And, by the way
Exodus 20:16Exactly what is considered to be evidence? Nothing, I'm afraid, to you.No
https://www.google.com/search?q=evidence&oq=evidence&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j46j0l4j69i60.2726j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
And, by the way
Exodus 20:16
Say what you believe. Spell it out.
The fact is, they could no longer respond to the facts.That's not actually a fact.
Believe as you wishThat's silly.
The fact is, I'm going with the most beautiful woman who ever lived.Well, it's not important, but I didn't expect that. In my experience "duffy" is a female name.
You refer to the Bible when you believe it is true and when you find it to be a fairy tale.I think it's tosh, but I thought that you would accept it.
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God? I was A2A on a question about turning into an atheist at 13 years of age. It bothered me deeply and I came to question my own beliefs. I'm at a crossroad. Help me through logical answers.Read and listen to the testimonies of his disciples from across 2 millennia. They are unique yet they share wonderful truths about what God-Man has done in their lives. Old men and women, young people from every race and ethnic background, from PhDs to first graders, from the cultured, well-to-do to, rich upper crust to the drug addicted street prostitutes, all share profound gratitude for the life saving and life altering heart changes Jesus Christ, the risen Savior, made in them. Millions claim the same kinds of experiences.
You refer to the Bible when you believe it is true and when you find it to be a fairy tale.I think it's tosh, but I thought that you would accept it.
Do you understand the reference?
Exodus 20:16
Phillip Zimbardo of Stanford conducted a small experiment with his students. Volunteers were chosen randomly to be fake prisoners or fake guards in a fake makeshift jail, that wasn't a jail at all. Everything was fake. It was an experiment to see how bright, ethical young men would respond as they played their roles.So, nothing relevant then?
Zimbardo played the prison superintendent.
In a few days the "evidence" that they were merely playing parts vanished and the situation escalated to an abusive, out of control, dangerous feeding frenzy and they had to shut it down.
Or are you saying the priests are the counterpart to the prison guards?
Electrons, quarks, and sodium ion channels form the basis for human thought. That's all thoughts are: billions of microscopic, biochemical/electrical pulses bursting each moment within 3 lbs of a gel-like ball that is suspended in a calcium hardened cavity. It is fed through the blood brain barrier with an oxygen rich fluid.
With that soft, vulnerable, fleshy object, mankind designed and built and detonated a 50,000,000 ton fusion driven thermonuclear weapon and sent men and machines to the moon, landed and returned them to earth safely.
Dumb Particles or Intelligent God. You know my vote (the latter of those two - for those with too many dumb particles to figure it out).And again Clive,
Dumb Particles or Intelligent God. You know my vote (the latter of those two - for those with too many dumb particles to figure it out).And again Clive,
Get a mirror.
It takes fewer "bright" particles to understand a fairy tale thana physics book.
I understand why unbelievers refuse to identify the kinds of specific evidentiary material they would accept.Any. State the properties of your god, and the relevant physical evidence that uniquely derives from its existence. Your choice.
Maybe BC is right in that a dumb virus can have the emergent property of "intelligence"I never said that, did I.
Results The mean ventilation rate was high whatever the technique used (24 bpm). A weak relationship between manual ventilation performance and the type of interface used was observed (p=0.0484). The overall rate of adequate ventilation was low even if we noticed a slight improvement when ventilating through an ETT (13.21% vs 7.5% of adequate ventilation). However, the rate of hyperventilation did not differ between mask and tube (79% vs 77%). A significant relationship is observed between professional category, the size of the hand squeezing the bag and manual ventilation performance (p<0.05).You bolded the wrong bit.
Give me your proof of how and why the emergent property of intelligence comes from particles (dumb or bright). My dumb particles do not seem to grasp how your bright particles find this so simple.OK, to take the 2nd point first
It was not designed by humans but by Satan. He may be evil but he is not powerless and is not stupid. Do not underestimate the enemy.And God made him.
Yesterday late afternoon I had a "feeling". We are fighting on two fronts which may become three or more. The obvious front is the virus, the second front is the global economy. The third front may be civil unrest (rioting and looting as in Italy South), and the fourth front may be outright war.Those are all obvious possible outcomes.
The way in which the virus has spread is unusual.No.
I understand why unbelievers refuse to identify the kinds of specific evidentiary material they would accept. It is easier to reject whatever evidence others present than to acknowledge upfront what has value. It is too bad. It is an old game and it is ineffective.
Really?I understand why unbelievers refuse to identify the kinds of specific evidentiary material they would accept. It is easier to reject whatever evidence others present than to acknowledge upfront what has value. It is too bad. It is an old game and it is ineffective.
You haven't presented any evidence that supports your argument. You have presented evidence that you are gullible and the useful tool of sociopathic religious charlatans.
The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God...
... the handiwork of an Intelligent Source ...
YesReally?I understand why unbelievers refuse to identify the kinds of specific evidentiary material they would accept. It is easier to reject whatever evidence others present than to acknowledge upfront what has value. It is too bad. It is an old game and it is ineffective.
You haven't presented any evidence that supports your argument. You have presented evidence that you are gullible and the useful tool of sociopathic religious charlatans.
It is not as though He makes it difficult to find him.I suggest you argue that point with CliveG who thinks God definitely hides whenever you actually do and experiment that looks for Him. When you agree amongst yourselves, come back and talk to us.
The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God.No.
The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God.It is entirely credible (I see it every day) and no more complex than any other ape. If anything, wheat, with a much longer genome, is more complex. As, for that matter, is a gorilla with more chromosomes than homo sapiens. The human body is evidence for evolution.
That fact of consciousness,Please define consciousness and explain why, whatever your definition, it is not a consequence of evolution.
It is rational to believe Something, somewhere is responsibleNot rational, but a consequence of human vanity and a childish intellect. In the real world, sh1t happens and you can't blame anyone or anything for it - you just have to clear up the mess.
We don't snap our fingers and create anything from nothing.[ so why presume that any other entitity did so?
The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God.No.
It isn't.
There is a perfectly plausible mechanism to get this complexity without needing to invoke a God.
Even if there weren't you still haven't actually moved things forward because , however complex a human might be, a God is necessarily more complex.
If you don't want to think that complicated things "just happen", then you can't say that an even more complicated God "just happened".
Your argument contradicts itself.
IOW, often life itself will lead us to God.That's not "IOW"
He never happened.Quite.
It is tough for the temporal to grasp the eternal.And yet you claim to. Vanity or insanity?
Since God is interested in every aspect of our lives, I want to say to anyone who is interested, that this a great time to buy stock. The last best opportunity to buy was in 2008-09.That's a high risk strategy.
It is tough for the temporal to grasp the eternal.No.
Tough, not impossible.It is tough for the temporal to grasp the eternal.And yet you claim to. Vanity or insanity?
You agree. God is eternal. Matter is not. Your eternal God created matter which is temporal. It required a creator. No other scientific explanation works. The created require a creator. The creator is the only exception. God never began and he will never end, by definition. Good for you!It is tough for the temporal to grasp the eternal.No.
It's a perfectly simple idea.
We explain it to kids in Sunday school.
Extrapolating doppler shift of spectroscopic measurements to establish when the universe came into being is a bit more difficult.
Not usually primary school stuff.
Your emperor must be getting cold,
Aha! So all the ill that befalls the innocent today is the fault of the guilty who have gone before. Doesn't sound much like the creation of a just (Old Testament) or merciful (New Testament) god. So what sort of deity do you have in mind? And why does he punish the Japanese with a tsunami or the Chinese with COVID when they have never heard the Word? What dreadful corporate sin had the children of Aberfan committed?
Is it the consequence of a reasonable Creation or the work of a reasonable Creator that the species least likely to survive your cataclysm are other mammals, not the species that is responsible for it?
And what sin precipitated the extinction of the dinosaurs, or the Ice Ages?
Is death really that new, and limited to humans?
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God?One reasonable possibility is that He doesn't exist.
Also, because religion cheats.
https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/6-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/4-7.htm
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God?One reasonable possibility is that He doesn't exist.
Also, because religion cheats.
https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/6-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/4-7.htm
Mistakes cost lives.Don't you think that good people have to die before entering into heaven? Which makes it a good thing that they die?
Mistakes cost lives.Don't you think that good people have to die before entering into heaven? Which makes it a good thing that they die?
The way in which the virus has spread is unusual.No.
It's bog standard epidemiology.
It makes no sense at all to deny that God must have been involved in creating the universe. It didn't create itself.Proof by loud assertion is not going to work on a science site.
bog standard that the world was prepared for it?The science was there.
"Innocent"? You believe there are people who are completely innocent, including inbred sin?Your dogma is a disgusting excuse for bad behavior. Stew in it if you wish, but don't let me catch you spreading such filth.
The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God...
... the handiwork of an Intelligent Source ...
Nope ... https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity#How_.22Irreducibly_complex.22_structures_form
& nope ... https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-most-unfortunate-design-flaws-in-the-human-body-1518242787
It is not as though He makes it difficult to find him.I suggest you argue that point with CliveG who thinks God definitely hides whenever you actually do and experiment that looks for Him. When you agree amongst yourselves, come back and talk to us.
Certainly the experiments on proof of prayer didn't find Him.
I still maintain that the flagellum is irreducibly complex. There are steps missing.And, as usual, we await actual evidence.
Some scientists propose what sort of in between structures "could" have come about. But they are guessing.That's all they need to do.
God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?
The incredible complexity of the human body is more evidence of God.No.
It isn't.
There is a perfectly plausible mechanism to get this complexity without needing to invoke a God.
Even if there weren't you still haven't actually moved things forward because , however complex a human might be, a God is necessarily more complex.
If you don't want to think that complicated things "just happen", then you can't say that an even more complicated God "just happened".
Your argument contradicts itself.
QuoteWe don't snap our fingers and create anything from nothing.[ so why presume that any other entitity did so?
Don't tell me, let me guess,
...God is guiding the evolution of these bacteria
So your god did design congenital syphilis. Why?
So your idea of your God is that it is a narcissistic sociopath. Much like Donald Trump then. Why not cut out the middle man and just worship the Donald. He is tangible. We have evidence that he exists. Everything he does is PERFECT!, WONDERFUL!
There you go. Your problem is solved. Just don't expect him to care what happens to you.
God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?
Oce it is shown that it could happen without "God" there is no need to invoke the existence of a God to explain how it happened.
I design things. Software, hardware, mechanical and electrical ...
... Intelligent design is one of the more powerful arguments for the existence of God...
Start at the very beginning please.Put the goal post back.
and for all people on a grand scale.Current estimated death toll in the US (alone) for His recent intervention is about 150,000.
he intevernes in a positive wayThat's one viewpoint...
Pressing, pressing and pressing, desperately hurling wild, disconnected blobs of theories around to prove how you believe God doesn't exist, that He isn't necessary, that he's a myth loved only by deluded, right-wing, hypocritical Trump loving fools is downright funny at times. It just may be that your world will not collapse and swallow you slowly in quick sand if you are wrong. Lighten up.
God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?
There are people who "talk to aliens" too.God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?
I think about Christ all day. I have for many years. I talk to him, too. I mean, I have conversations with him. I talk. He listens. He talks. I try to listen. (I'm getting better at it. It is tough for me to get sufficiently still in my being to pick up his "signals".) The thing I want to point out is just how cool it is to know Him. He is a great guy, my best buddy, my constant companion. I am still a novice, a babe in Christ in many ways. But, I love the guy. He's been unbelievable. He's done so much in me and for me and for others through me that would not have happened without him. I do not leave a path of crazed destruction behind me anymore. I don't use people like I once did as the gnarling, filthy beast I was. My child does not live in fear of me. We are great friends, actually. I don't go out of my way looking to fight anyone, or to dominate others, to force my will on anybody. (I forget how much I've changed.) I am grateful I don't hate everyone anymore. I'm grateful to have love inside my heart and soul for people. Don't get me wrong. I still hate. I still want to smash in some dude's face once in a while, but it is nothing, nothing like it was. I go to him immediately and express my feelings to him, seeking his help to be like him at those times. It's best for me to be open, upfront with him. He knows anyway and he doesn't condemn me. He's the only reason I am a better person today than once upon a time---and I didn't make these changes. He did.
There are people who "talk to aliens" too.God hides in plain sight for those who believe and do not require scientific proof.That's no bloody use to anyone, is it?
I think about Christ all day. I have for many years. I talk to him, too. I mean, I have conversations with him. I talk. He listens. He talks. I try to listen. (I'm getting better at it. It is tough for me to get sufficiently still in my being to pick up his "signals".) The thing I want to point out is just how cool it is to know Him. He is a great guy, my best buddy, my constant companion. I am still a novice, a babe in Christ in many ways. But, I love the guy. He's been unbelievable. He's done so much in me and for me and for others through me that would not have happened without him. I do not leave a path of crazed destruction behind me anymore. I don't use people like I once did as the gnarling, filthy beast I was. My child does not live in fear of me. We are great friends, actually. I don't go out of my way looking to fight anyone, or to dominate others, to force my will on anybody. (I forget how much I've changed.) I am grateful I don't hate everyone anymore. I'm grateful to have love inside my heart and soul for people. Don't get me wrong. I still hate. I still want to smash in some dude's face once in a while, but it is nothing, nothing like it was. I go to him immediately and express my feelings to him, seeking his help to be like him at those times. It's best for me to be open, upfront with him. He knows anyway and he doesn't condemn me. He's the only reason I am a better person today than once upon a time---and I didn't make these changes. He did.
How can you prove that your circumstances differ?
It makes no sense at all to deny that God must have been involved in creating the universe. It didn't create itself.Proof by loud assertion is not going to work on a science site.
Try again.
See my other post just done. God is good. Satan is bad. Both have to work within the rules set out by the Ultimate Intelligence.Looks like God and Satan are Ultimate Intelligence's children. Did Satan create anything observable?
Just a word of advice to everyone. If you don't have one, investing in a generator at this time is probably a smart thing to do. You can pick up a really good, new 5,000 to 7,500 watt unit for $600 to a thousand bucks. They will run a frig, a well pump, an air conditioner, your computers, t.v.s and radios.
Hard to swallow? Truth is truth. He was born of a virgin for a reason. He was and is the unblemished Lamb of God, the once and for all perfect blood sacrifice for all mankind."Innocent"? You believe there are people who are completely innocent, including inbred sin?Your dogma is a disgusting excuse for bad behavior. Stew in it if you wish, but don't let me catch you spreading such filth.
See my other post just done. God is good. Satan is bad. Both have to work within the rules set out by the Ultimate Intelligence.Looks like God and Satan are Ultimate Intelligence's children. Did Satan create anything observable?
Ok, so now you have invented the ultimate intelligence out of thin air. Why? Was your argument crumbling? So if I have this right, god isn't all knowing, all powerful. God's just a servant of a figment of your imagination. Wow! It's a convincer. ;)
Just a word of advice to everyone. If you don't have one, investing in a generator at this time is probably a smart thing to do. You can pick up a really good, new 5,000 to 7,500 watt unit for $600 to a thousand bucks. They will run a frig, ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frig_(word)
Christ is an alien, too. This wasn't his home and it's not mine either, so I suppose I can't prove it.Deliberately missing the point does not mean you win the argument.
God is not all-powerful and all knowing.
duffyd and I do not disagree.
It is a fact! He was not from this world. He said so and so did the guys who hung out with him for years. He didn't act like he was an earthling, either, if you think about it. He was a preaching, teaching, healing machine. He never asked for a dime. He was poor, uneducated, single, not good looking, and people either hated his guts or were crazy in love with the guy. He could have stopped his execution, and he wanted to, but he died believing he was paying our debt to his old Man and he was certain he would rise again from the grave. He was not your normal dude by any stretch. He referred to events he witnessed in that other world, too. He said he watched satan get rocketed out of his home town. He knew Abe and Moe and those guys. No, he was a trip from a completely different world than the one we are from. He absolutely qualifies, he more than qualifies, as the real deal according to the standards and rules established by the World Federation of Alien Encounters and Other Unexplained Stuff, Inc.Christ is an alien, too. This wasn't his home and it's not mine either, so I suppose I can't prove it.Deliberately missing the point does not mean you win the argument.
It just means you look silly.
It is a fact!It's an unevinced claim.
but he died believing he was paying our debt to his old ManHe died believing that He had been forsaken.
Why so angry about God?My anger is about the stupidity of people who waste their lives in the pointless worship of something that cannot possibly exist, or if it did, could not be affected by worship. And also towards the disgusting behavior of people who use god as an excuse for their perversions. Good deeds do not need an excuse.
He was not from this world. He said soThere is no evidence for that statement. Indeed in Mark 8:31 and elsewhere he clearly stated that he was the Son of Man. So you either accept the word of Jesus Christ, or the bullshit put about by those who have cobbled together a spurious religion around his name. I always prefer the former, which, like most of what he said, is consistent with everyday observation and common sense.
in Mark 8:31 and elsewhere he clearly stated that he was the Son of Man
He was not from this world. He said soThere is no evidence for that statement. Indeed in Mark 8:31 and elsewhere he clearly stated that he was the Son of Man. So you either accept the word of Jesus Christ, or the bullshit put about by those who have cobbled together a spurious religion around his name. I always prefer the former, which, like most of what he said, is consistent with everyday observation and common sense.
He didn't claim to be God, but he did state that he was the son of man. ?RTFM.
He didn't claim to be God, but he did state that he was the son of man. ?RTFM.
And once more Clive is proven right in his predictions.No competent scientist (other than off the cuff) actually said masks don't work.
Face masks work - even cloth masks. Check the USA (and other countries) slowly coming to that realization.
Satan wins again - because of this ridiculous primary stance that masks do not work, and may even worsen infection.Spoiler: show
BC - how long can you scoff at the fact that I am right most of the time?In what sense?
And once more Clive is proven right in his predictions.No competent scientist (other than off the cuff) actually said masks don't work.
Face masks work - even cloth masks. Check the USA (and other countries) slowly coming to that realization.
Satan wins again - because of this ridiculous primary stance that masks do not work, and may even worsen infection.Spoiler: show
The only accurate answer to the question is "it depends".
You might want to try not bearing false witness against them.
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God? I was A2A on a question about turning into an atheist at 13 years of age. It bothered me deeply and I came to question my own beliefs. I'm at a crossroad. Help me through logical answers.The application of scientific principles confirms God is. The most pertinent question becomes, "what will you do now"?
And once more Clive is proven right in his predictions.No competent scientist (other than off the cuff) actually said masks don't work.
Face masks work - even cloth masks. Check the USA (and other countries) slowly coming to that realization.
Satan wins again - because of this ridiculous primary stance that masks do not work, and may even worsen infection.Spoiler: show
The only accurate answer to the question is "it depends".
You might want to try not bearing false witness against them.
We have a gentle rain. A good omen. It is completely silent. No traffic noise. No sounds from the neighbours. We are putting fertilizer on the grass. My wife is digging up weeds. She had been sorting out her years of paperwork and throwing away what is not needed. I am in the garage doing yet another sort of all my tools and bits and pieces. The calm before the storm.
duffyd said it was a good time to by stock. My opinion is that we have a long way to the bottom. I also think that the bottom will long and very slow climbing. Not even a dead cat bounce. In fact, the world as we know it might change substantially in the next few years.
The US is damned if it does and damned if it does not. Some companies will emerge but many will fall or be seriously devalued. My wife inherited a small amount of stock from her mother, but I have not gotten involved. Too much else going on. She says you only lose when you sell. Some went up high over the years. Some are in the process of dying due to corruption.
In the same way; I hereby predict that there will be another pandemic.
It will be a respiratory tract infection.
It will be viral
It will take governments by surprise and they won't be prepared.
It will emerge in a large country with relatively low levels of technology and infrastructure and where great social change is taking place. (So, China is a good bet but, bits of South America or africa are on the cards too)
And I can make those predictions because they are all more or less obvious.
And what about my prediction that it will be found that cell phone radiation will be found to be a factor? You are currently scoffing.Yes, I still say that's laughable.
They feel like a "tower headache" but the radiation readings are very low a
But they have also had a long time of exposure to radiation and their systems may be more sensitive to cell radiation.It's the funniest thing, but old people were often badly affected by disease before anyone invented any sort of phone.
Check out how biological enzymes work.I'm a chemist; I know how enzymes work, in my time I probably wrote essays about it.
They speed up cellular reactions as much as a million times.
drenaline can give almost instant energy for muscle activation.Wait a minute, you said you were talking about enzymes.
Now imagine that there are pulsed electrical fields that are interfering with all the chemical reactionsThe experiments have shown in tedious detail that the em fields associated with phones don't do that.
Give me some incredible odds and put up your money!Sadly forme the law bans bets on events where the outcome is already known. It's to stop people taking money for no good reason (I guess they think that's the government's job).
MORE EVIDENCE OF THE EFFICACY OF HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE AND AZITHROMYCIN
This could be extremely important: a renowned French doctor has reported the most extensive evidence so far that a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin can be an effective treatment for COVID-19:
MORE EVIDENCE OF THE EFFICACY OF HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE AND AZITHROMYCIN
This could be extremely important: a renowned French doctor has reported the most extensive evidence so far that a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin can be an effective treatment for COVID-19:
Can you provide a link?
Assuming that it does work, this is still far from the end of the pandemic. More vulnerable people are still going to need hospital stays in order to get the treatment and so the medical system can still be overwhelmed.I know, but what great news! Just when it seemed there wasn't any hope in the near term, researchers have identified some options that look promising. I believe the West can pool our resources and attack this monster with unprecedented resolve and everything necessary, the vents, the drugs, the beds, etc. to reign it in worldwide so that millions won't die. The Brits, the Americans, the French, Israelis, Germans, Japanese, Spaniards, etc. have the greatest medical minds in history and they can't be stopped.
Don't you agree that's just a bit disingenuous? You were presented with specific challenges to your proposal.He didn't claim to be God, but he did state that he was the son of man. ?RTFM.
Why so angry about God?My anger is about the stupidity of people who waste their lives in the pointless worship of something that cannot possibly exist, or if it did, could not be affected by worship. And also towards the disgusting behavior of people who use god as an excuse for their perversions. Good deeds do not need an excuse.
He was not from this world. He said soThere is no evidence for that statement. Indeed in Mark 8:31 and elsewhere he clearly stated that he was the Son of Man. So you either accept the word of Jesus Christ, or the bullshit put about by those who have cobbled together a spurious religion around his name. I always prefer the former, which, like most of what he said, is consistent with everyday observation and common sense.
It will emerge in a large country with relatively low levels of technology and infrastructure and where great social change is taking place. (So, China is a good bet but, bits of South America or africa are on the cards too)
We have a gentle rain. A good omen. It is completely silent. No traffic noise. No sounds from the neighbours. We are putting fertilizer on the grass. My wife is digging up weeds. She had been sorting out her years of paperwork and throwing away what is not needed. I am in the garage doing yet another sort of all my tools and bits and pieces. The calm before the storm.
duffyd said it was a good time to by stock. My opinion is that we have a long way to the bottom. I also think that the bottom will long and very slow climbing. Not even a dead cat bounce. In fact, the world as we know it might change substantially in the next few years.
The US is damned if it does and damned if it does not. Some companies will emerge but many will fall or be seriously devalued. My wife inherited a small amount of stock from her mother, but I have not gotten involved. Too much else going on. She says you only lose when you sell. Some went up high over the years. Some are in the process of dying due to corruption.
Dollar-Cost Averaging (DCA)
It is always a good time to buy stock, particularly when the bottom falls out.
Give me some incredible odds and put up your money!
Sadly for me the law bans bets on events where the outcome is already known. It's to stop people taking money for no good reason (I guess they think that's the government's job).
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 16:59:07
Now imagine that there are pulsed electrical fields that are interfering with all the chemical reactions
The experiments have shown in tedious detail that the em fields associated with phones don't do that.
I hear ya. Don't blame ya. In the great recession the DJIA declined 53.7% from 10/9/2007 to 3/9/2009, and I prepared to jump--out of the basement. Glad I didn't sell. Wifey wishes I had jumped. The market rebounded 4 fold. Wished I'd bought more!We have a gentle rain. A good omen. It is completely silent. No traffic noise. No sounds from the neighbours. We are putting fertilizer on the grass. My wife is digging up weeds. She had been sorting out her years of paperwork and throwing away what is not needed. I am in the garage doing yet another sort of all my tools and bits and pieces. The calm before the storm.
duffyd said it was a good time to by stock. My opinion is that we have a long way to the bottom. I also think that the bottom will long and very slow climbing. Not even a dead cat bounce. In fact, the world as we know it might change substantially in the next few years.
The US is damned if it does and damned if it does not. Some companies will emerge but many will fall or be seriously devalued. My wife inherited a small amount of stock from her mother, but I have not gotten involved. Too much else going on. She says you only lose when you sell. Some went up high over the years. Some are in the process of dying due to corruption.
Dollar-Cost Averaging (DCA)
It is always a good time to buy stock, particularly when the bottom falls out.
Under "normal" situations I would agree with you. Especially on DCA. Today I will be analyzing my wife's share portfolio to advise her which shares to sell. My logic is that the stock market has fallen about 20% from an artificial high. It can still fall another 30% and stay there for 4 years and only reach the present price 10 to 20 years from now.. Some stocks will disappear as the companies go out of business. I am of the opinion my wife should sell those now because 10% of their highs is better than 1% or 0% of the highs. In addition to analysis (which I am good at) I may also confirm with Tarot cards.
As all too often happens, I read one of your posts, and I'm looking for evidence. There isn't any.Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 16:59:07
Now imagine that there are pulsed electrical fields that are interfering with all the chemical reactions
The experiments have shown in tedious detail that the em fields associated with phones don't do that.
Now you are the one putting out false information. There are thousands of tests that do show that.
Nice out for you. Saving face while not putting up the money. Besides, the telcos will probable hide the fact that they are responsible.Those telcos are now saturating the airwaves with more signals then they ever have before.
Saving face while not putting up the money.
China now outstrips the world in terms of number of patent.Yes.
You sound like you need a mirror.Why so angry about God?My anger is about the stupidity of people who waste their lives in the pointless worship of something that cannot possibly exist, or if it did, could not be affected by worship. And also towards the disgusting behavior of people who use god as an excuse for their perversions. Good deeds do not need an excuse.
You sound like an uneducated, biased, hateful, religious fundamentalist zealot
And once more Clive is proven right in his predictions.No competent scientist (other than off the cuff) actually said masks don't work.
Face masks work - even cloth masks. Check the USA (and other countries) slowly coming to that realization.
Satan wins again - because of this ridiculous primary stance that masks do not work, and may even worsen infection.Spoiler: show
The only accurate answer to the question is "it depends".
You might want to try not bearing false witness against them.
I am dumbstruck by your post. Just how many people in the US are wearing any sort of mask protection - even DIY home-made cloth masks?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html
US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams not only wants people to stop buying facemasks to prevent the novel coronavirus, but warns that you actually might increase your risk of infection if facemasks are not worn properly.
"You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider," Adams said during an interview on Fox & Friends on Monday morning.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/who-should-wear-a-face-mask-30-march-who-briefing/
WHO officials do not recommend mask wearing for healthy members of the general population.
https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/coronavirus-wearing-protective-gear-inappropriately-puts-you-at-greater-risk-health-department-20200331
The department reminded the public not to wear protective gear if a person does not feel sick or when taking care of people, especially those with respiratory problems.
But the Chinese people don't get to use that tech, do they? It gets exported.Not sure about that. To some extent it depends on what you mean by "the people" but the extent of COVID tracking and dissemination of public information by mobile phone and facial recognition has been exceptional, as has the eventual ramping up of medical facilities. In some ways it seems that China has skipped a generation of technology, with people living in 1960s-style accommodation but with 2030s roads, railways, broadband…. and of course next year's diseases.
All the scientists you quote are saying what I said they did. They are all saying " it depends"
None of them is saying "masks don't work".
Every one of them is making the point I made.
Did you not realise that?
I hear ya. Don't blame ya. In the great recession the DJIA declined 53.7% from 10/9/2007 to 3/9/2009, and I prepared to jump--out of the basement. Glad I didn't sell. Wifey wishes I had jumped. The market rebounded 4 fold. Wished I'd bought more!
China now outstrips the world in terms of number of patent.Yes.
But the Chinese people don't get to use that tech, do they? It gets exported.
The point remains that their animal markets and healthcare system are pretty low tech and that's clearly what I was alluding to.
So, it's your ignorance that's showing.
China has surged in ways that would blow your mind.
n the 3 years, 2011, 2012 and 2013, China poured more concrete that the US has poured in its entire history.Thanks for illustrating my point about
where great social change is taking place
By many measures China is far ahead of the USA.Yes, but owning and using tech isn't one of them.
Be careful of judging others negatively because you perceive them to be "foreign".Be careful of jumping to unsupported conclusions.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:24:37
China has surged in ways that would blow your mind.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:24:37
n the 3 years, 2011, 2012 and 2013, China poured more concrete that the US has poured in its entire history.
Thanks for illustrating my point about
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/04/2020 11:59:05
where greatsocialtechnical and scientific change is taking place
Be careful of judging others negatively because you perceive them to be "foreign".Be careful of jumping to unsupported conclusions.
I'd manufacture lightweight, flexible, protective armor made of graphene for drivers and passengers in vehicles. Graphene stops bullets at 600 meters per second, and is 100 times stronger than steel. Let's cut way back on automobile accident fatalities.If the armor is flexible it won't alter the outcome of automobile accidents. Fatalities generally arise from the internal flexibility and mushiness of the human body coming into contact with rigid bits of the vehicle. Seatbelts and airbags reduce the deceleration. Padding would be better than graphene, then you can add the cooling system from your space suit..
I am supremely confident our economy is going to come back like a raging herd of angry bulls.
I'd wear an Apollo spacesuit if I had millions. I'd manufacture lightweight, flexible, protective armor made of graphene for drivers and passengers in vehicles. Graphene stops bullets at 600 meters per second, and is 100 times stronger than steel. Let's cut way back on automobile accident fatalities.
I'll take all the advice I can get. Saving lives is the important thing. I was thinking of graphene or a similar material formed into a braided like metal armor. It would be flexible to a point beyond which it would lock into place.I guess graphene cracks pretty easily, unfortunately. One thing's for sure. We can design and manufacture more and better protective equipment for people to use while they travel in cars.I'd manufacture lightweight, flexible, protective armor made of graphene for drivers and passengers in vehicles. Graphene stops bullets at 600 meters per second, and is 100 times stronger than steel. Let's cut way back on automobile accident fatalities.If the armor is flexible it won't alter the outcome of automobile accidents. Fatalities generally arise from the internal flexibility and mushiness of the human body coming into contact with rigid bits of the vehicle. Seatbelts and airbags reduce the deceleration. Padding would be better than graphene, then you can add the cooling system from your space suit..
Mom graduated summa cum laude Radcliffe majoring in economics and she frowned on America's symbiotic relationships with foreign countries.I am supremely confident our economy is going to come back like a raging herd of angry bulls.
I am not. There needs to be a phased end to lock-downs for a start. Which country are you in?
There are articles about "the end of capitalization" and "the end of globalization". For all the advantages there are some key weaknesses. It is the same weakness as one finds in mono-culture.
This was brought home when a key factory making memory chips burnt down and the whole world suffered a shortage. One of Trumps assessments was that the USA should do more local manufacture. This crisis has exposed the problems with a few individuals making money from manufacture in a distant country as opposed to local manufacture. "Just in time" has no "fat" or slack. It may be efficient in good times but a nightmare in bad times.
South Africa became a manufacturing powerhouse when under sanctions. It made its our own integrated circuits and even made six nuclear bombs. In 1994 the importation of cheap goods from China boosted the economy at first and then devastated local manufacturing. My wife is now considering whether to use her machines to do some local manufacture under the new regime, if it comes. We need the slogan "Gives the locals some of your business".
Countries should always ensure that at least 10% of imports are made locally and that such factories are centers of research as well so as to be able to innovate and have the local expertise to grow quickly in case of global disruptions. Imagine the Irish potato famine being global. If a plant fungus wipes out a section of agriculture then other sectors with similar plants but some diversity should be ready to take over. In economics one learns the need to diversify a portfolio. This is a good general strategy.
Humankind KNOWS this. But greedy businessmen and politicians paid by the greedy businessmen do not want change. Instead of being proactive, they are reactive. China does not have the lobbying the USA and many Western countries have. Survival of the fittest applies to nations as well.
In 1994 the importation of cheap goods from China boosted the economy at first and then devastated local manufacturing.
I am supremely confident our economy is going to come back like a raging herd of angry bulls.
Mom graduated summa cum laude Radcliffe majoring in economics and she frowned on America's symbiotic relationships with foreign countries.My mum taught one of the Spice Girls.
Are you trying to pretend that social change is not happening? Because that's pretty obviously a silly idea.Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:24:37
China has surged in ways that would blow your mind.
Quote from: CliveG on Yesterday at 12:24:37
n the 3 years, 2011, 2012 and 2013, China poured more concrete that the US has poured in its entire history.
Thanks for illustrating my point about
Quote from: Bored chemist on 02/04/2020 11:59:05
where greatsocialtechnical and scientific change is taking place
Fixed that for you. :)
Now, about God's lessons.The ones he "teaches" by randomly killing people?
And how about a suggestion for reducing global population without natural disasters - big and small?Abolish organisations that say we should "go forth and multiply".
Note the use of distancing.Stacked just about as close as they could be, given that you needed to be able to get a stretcher between the beds.
Countries should always ensure that at least 10% of imports are made locallyIs that a Yogi Berra quote?
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 09:35:41
Countries should always ensure that at least 10% of imports are made locally
Is that a Yogi Berra quote?
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 09:37:24
And how about a suggestion for reducing global population without natural disasters - big and small?
Abolish organisations that say we should "go forth and multiply".
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 08:33:04
Note the use of distancing.
Stacked just about as close as they could be, given that you needed to be able to get a stretcher between the beds.
Are you trying to pretend that social change is not happening? Because that's pretty obviously a silly idea.
Quote from: CliveG on Today at 08:33:04
Now, about God's lessons.
The ones he "teaches" by randomly killing people?
In 1994 the importation of cheap goods from China boosted the economy at first and then devastated local manufacturing.
That is in my next book.
BC seemed to be saying that the change was restricted and narrow.No, he didn't.
where great social change is taking place.
Good one. Finally.You decided to reply; finally.
And in all His infinite wisdom, he couldn't do a better job of teaching than killing random people.
That's a really rubbish God, isn't it?
I am supremely confident our economy is going to come back like a raging herd of angry bulls.
Just about everything you have posted here indicates that you have great faith in things for which there is no actual evidence.
when I was a teenager, I experienced "ball lightning". IThat's a novel euphemism.
Debate about the existence of ball lightning has raged for years.Not really.
when I was a teenager, I experienced "ball lightning". IThat's a novel euphemism.Debate about the existence of ball lightning has raged for years.Not really.
Essentially everyone believes it exists.
There's lots of debate about the cause and nature, but that's a different issue.
I've seen ball lightning, and once played in a band and flew in developing clouds (not at the same time) with a trombonist whose job at the UK meteorological office was to investigate rare phenomena - of which ball lightning was the most-reported and least-understood. We played some good balls but never managed to video ball lightning.
Originally we called it, "What Ho Murray?" We changed it to, "Hey! I Think There's Ladies Here" But it is better known for its subtitle, "Don't Run For A Bus, There'll Always Be Another"In 1994 the importation of cheap goods from China boosted the economy at first and then devastated local manufacturing.
That is in my next book.
And your first book is?
Is anyone familiar with a rationale, logical, documented theory that clearly refutes the existence of God? Again, I'm not asking for you to repeat an old theory, rather, if you care to offer conjecture, please include data that is verifiable, thorough and scientifically valid.
So far, I haven't seen a single argument that is sustainable, intelligent or persuasive, but I would love to see it.
Originally we called it, "What Ho Murray?" We changed it to, "Hey! I Think There's Ladies Here" But it is better known for its subtitle, "Don't Run For A Bus, There'll Always Be Another"
Oh, it's been banned in every country in the world. Many governments required mass burning enforcement. They said it was the sickest, most disgusting, inaccurate, devious, evil, raunchy, filthy, depraved piece of junk ever committed to paper. I say it was not inaccurate.Originally we called it, "What Ho Murray?" We changed it to, "Hey! I Think There's Ladies Here" But it is better known for its subtitle, "Don't Run For A Bus, There'll Always Be Another"
ISBN number? Or link?
My book on Smashwords is ISBN: 978-0-620-80927-6 (eBook). Read the Second half. Pseudonym Dan Seyr. It needs updating but still some things of interest. I will put a free pdf on Google drive with a link shortly. But I want to update it. Especially with the feedback I have from this site.
BTW, I want to repeat: Science provides overwhelming reasons why GOD must be. Even to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
Science is quite clear on certain matters. Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become. We know, based on science that the universe began at a point in the past. The only logical conclusion rational thinkers can come to is that a Force not only initiated the explosion which sparked the manifestation of all that is and that we can measure from earth as it scatters across space/time, but that this Force created the ingredients, the very material within that which exploded. That Force logically must be more powerful, intelligent, creative, magnificent, and spiritual than anything else other than that Force's Son.Is anyone familiar with a rationale, logical, documented theory that clearly refutes the existence of God? Again, I'm not asking for you to repeat an old theory, rather, if you care to offer conjecture, please include data that is verifiable, thorough and scientifically valid.
So far, I haven't seen a single argument that is sustainable, intelligent or persuasive, but I would love to.
So would I.
Sunday. The sun is out. I will enjoy the day and nature. Our garden is lovely. A slow day with nothing new to report. Hannity gave Cuomo a talking to about a 2015 report advising NY to buy ventilators - with an accurate report about a possible pandemic. Cuomo wasted money on pet projects.
BTW, I want to repeat: Science provides overwhelming reasons why GOD must be. Even to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.you show me yours and ill show you mine
Oh, it's been banned in every country in the world. Many governments required mass burning enforcement. They said it was the sickest, most disgusting, inaccurate, devious, evil, raunchy, filthy, depraved piece of junk ever committed to paper. I say it was not inaccurate.
It was about my feeding and bathroom habits since birth. It was actually very informative. But, they claimed they measured a major increase in severe agita, nervous indigestion, mass hysteria, suicidal and uncontrollable homicidal ideations, depression, lactation in adult males, tachycardia, hallucinations, strep throat, bed wetting, night terrors, and aneurysms directly attributable to reading the first paragraph. I thought it was pretty good. They allege millions became violently ill, so that ended that little project.
Science cannot explain why a mother loves her child. It cannot offer instructions to make compassion. It doesn't understand beauty.actually, it can
Science is quite clear on certain matters. Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become. We know, based on science that the universe began at a point in the past. The only logical conclusion rational thinkers can come to is that a Force not only initiated the explosion which sparked the manifestation of all that is and that we can measure from earth as it scatters across space/time, but that this Force created the ingredients, the very material within that which exploded. That Force logically must be more powerful, intelligent, creative, magnificent, and spiritual than anything else other than that Force's Son.
Science cannot explain why a mother loves her child. It cannot offer instructions to make compassion. It doesn't understand beauty.actually, it can
you are correct, science doesnt address issues like life after death and the souls, because as of our current technology they are still in the science fiction dept. but hey, we are learning all the time and someday we may shed light on those subjects.
science can however address the issues of people 'believing' in life after death and souls. believing in something is a completely different issue to it actually being real. and we have the whole 'psychology. of belief' thing explained pretty well.
Should atheists actually be agnostics if they really apply their minds?me personally. i think that the strong belief there there is no god is incorrect. this is the opposite spectrum to the belief in a god. which are both beliefs and by definition are not proven. i think the correct stance is 'we dont know so i will stay neutral until it is known'.
[quote author=j
Clive, Your answer is below or above as the case may be. That thing is so dangerous alerts stream across the world warning governments that someone mentioned it. You've got to be careful.
Science is quite clear on certain matters. Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become. We know, based on science that the universe began at a point in the past. The only logical conclusion rational thinkers can come to is that a Force not only initiated the explosion which sparked the manifestation of all that is and that we can measure from earth as it scatters across space/time, but that this Force created the ingredients, the very material within that which exploded. That Force logically must be more powerful, intelligent, creative, magnificent, and spiritual than anything else other than that Force's Son.
Not to far from my hypothesis. Worth repeating as I have done for you. :)
Ali Binazir did the calculations and decided that the chances of anyone existing are one in 10 to the 2,685,000th power.That's a remarkably wrong answer.
Ali Binazir, M.D., M.Phil. is a graduate of Harvard College, UC San Diego School of Medicine, and Cambridge University.
Should atheists actually be agnostics if they really apply their minds?me personally. i think that the strong belief there there is no god is incorrect. this is the opposite spectrum to the belief in a god. which are both beliefs and by definition are not proven. i think the correct stance is 'we dont know so i will stay neutral until it is known'.
there are numerous psychological studies showing that any stance but neutral is detrimental to our ability to determine the 'truth' if it does come along.
Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become.Neither statement is true. It's good enough for everyday practical chemistry and engineering but these phenomena are not prevented by any known physics. Indeed since the observable universe seems to have a finite age, physics actually demands ex nihilo creation of matter, by simple observation. We just don't fully understand the mechanism or have the ability to replicate it in the lab yet.
Ali Binazir did the calculations and decided that the chances of anyone existing are one in 10 to the 2,685,000th power.That's a remarkably wrong answer.
Ali Binazir, M.D., M.Phil. is a graduate of Harvard College, UC San Diego School of Medicine, and Cambridge University.
I exist.
The probability of anyone existing is 1.
So he's obviously made a mistake.
Again, the appeal to authority bit is a logical fallacy. Why include it?
Why pretend that "M.D., M.Phil. is a graduate of Harvard College, UC San Diego School of Medicine, and Cambridge" makes any difference to him being obviously wrong.
Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become.Neither statement is true. It's good enough for everyday practical chemistry and engineering but these phenomena are not prevented by any known physics. Indeed since the observable universe seems to have a finite age, physics actually demands ex nihilo creation of matter, by simple observation. We just don't fully understand the mechanism or have the ability to replicate it in the lab yet.
Before life existed, the probability is not 1.Before life existed, nor did Ali Binazir.
I was 45 when I first thought that there were some benefits to a belief in God. Such as assuring my 4-year old son that he could go to sleep after saying his prayers because God would look after him. No other assurance and logic was acceptable to him. He was too smart and could figure a way into the house by bad guys which his school-mates had told him about.
I was about 55 to 60 when events gave me more assurance that the probability of the existence of God was reasonably likely. I still retain some skepticism and accept I may be wrong. Can you explain how I was absolutely certain a biker would die on an open road in good weather with little traffic and there was no problem with the way he was driving? That to me was the one example that illustrates the existence of the supernatural.i dont know you personally or that exact circumstance but science has many explanations for this. 1 possibility from the top of my head is the same as when we know what song will come on the radio next or we know who the next person to call us is. it happens to everyone and is quite well understood by science. theres nothing supernatural there. its just our brain doing what it does.
You are at your computer reading this, and suddenly you get a shock (and I mean a shock as if it had happened) that a car is going to crash into the side of the house in 5 minutes and you leave the room. The crash happens. A mild sunny day with little traffic and no unusual sounds. The man just dies at the wheel of the car from a heart attack and does not take the corner. It happens to you and no-one believes you - but you know what happened.
Neither statement is true. It's good enough for everyday practical chemistry and engineering but these phenomena are not prevented by any known physics.
Don't forget. One hundred billion neurons sporting trillions of connections inside a skull is no big deal. Anybody can combine some protein and fat molecules in your average home blender and build a functioning brain. Some of my dearest friends have a small business producing replacement brains from a pre-dip batter.I was about 55 to 60 when events gave me more assurance that the probability of the existence of God was reasonably likely. I still retain some skepticism and accept I may be wrong. Can you explain how I was absolutely certain a biker would die on an open road in good weather with little traffic and there was no problem with the way he was driving? That to me was the one example that illustrates the existence of the supernatural.i dont know you personally or that exact circumstance but science has many explanations for this. 1 possibility from the top of my head is the same as when we know what song will come on the radio next or we know who the next person to call us is. it happens to everyone and is quite well understood by science. theres nothing supernatural there. its just our brain doing what it does.
You are at your computer reading this, and suddenly you get a shock (and I mean a shock as if it had happened) that a car is going to crash into the side of the house in 5 minutes and you leave the room. The crash happens. A mild sunny day with little traffic and no unusual sounds. The man just dies at the wheel of the car from a heart attack and does not take the corner. It happens to you and no-one believes you - but you know what happened.
a bit like when you dream about some stranger, and then the next day you meet that stranger for the first time. again, perfectly explainable by science. nothing supernatural.
so i used to get surprised by this stuff, thinking i was 'special'. until i learned more facts.
1 possibility from the top of my head is the same as when we know what song will come on the radio next or we know who the next person to call us is. it happens to everyone and is quite well understood by science. theres nothing supernatural there. its just our brain doing what it does.
a bit like when you dream about some stranger, and then the next day you meet that stranger for the first time. again, perfectly explainable by science. nothing supernatural.
BTW, I want to repeat: Science provides overwhelming reasons why GOD must be. Even to suggest otherwise is ludicrous.you show me yours and ill show you mine
actually, not really. science can not prove that there is no god. and it cant prove there is a god. there is evidence for both, but neither is provable. so the default position should be that until one is proven, both are possible. ever heard of Schrodingers cat. to accept one of those options as true is "lying to oneself" (there is a better phrase but cant think of it)
Indeed since the observable universe seems to have a finite age, physics actually demands ex nihilo creation of matter
How about the ex nihilo of the laws of physics?The laws of physics are man-made summaries of observation, nothing more. We observe a universe of finite age, therefore what exists now, once did not exist. Some folks wonder how it happened, some folks assert who did it. Being of an enquiring mind, I prefer the "how".
Can you prove that?No. I can't, but He can. Right now. Right here. He can and will convince you He is real and will utterly amaze, stun, surprise, you UTTERLY. HE's dying to, literally, He died a horrible death for YOU. So you and he can know each other as best friends.
Faith in ‘Creatio Ex Nihilo’ (CEN) theory is real faith.Wrong. Faith is acceptance of a hypothesis in the face of facts. It is distinct from belief (acceptance in the absence of facts) or science (investigation of a hypothesis by means of facts).
No. I can't, but He can. Right now. Right here. He can and will convince you He is real and will utterly amaze, stun, surprise, you UTTERLY. HE's dying to, literally, He died a horrible death for YOU. So you and he can know each other as best friends.Can you prove that? I'm not impressed by assertion without evidence.
Faith in ‘Creatio Ex Nihilo’ (CEN) theory is real faith.Wrong. Faith is acceptance of a hypothesis in the face of facts. It is distinct from belief (acceptance in the absence of facts) or science (investigation of a hypothesis by means of facts).
1 possibility from the top of my head is the same as when we know what song will come on the radio next or we know who the next person to call us is. it happens to everyone and is quite well understood by science. theres nothing supernatural there. its just our brain doing what it does.
a bit like when you dream about some stranger, and then the next day you meet that stranger for the first time. again, perfectly explainable by science. nothing supernatural.
I had not heard of a scientific explanation for this before. What is the mechanism?
Science clearly establishes that GOD is."is" what? real or imaginary? if science establishes that god is real, then you must have claimed the nobel prize for that find?
I had not heard of a scientific explanation for this before. What is the mechanism?about a year ago i went through a 'learn everything about brain function phase'. reading and watching everything i could about it.
Former “Cheers” TV star Woody Harrelson recently posted a report “about the negative effects of 5G” and its supposed role in the coronavirus pandemic to his more than 2 million Instagram followers.Thanks for the clarification.
.A century later, influenza continues to defeat every attempt to prevent or cure it,Apart from the vaccines, and treatment.
Something/Somebody had to kick this thing offWhy do you think so?
and Jesus Christ said He was His son.Not in any bible I have read. He wasn't that stupid. And even if he had, why would you believe him, let alone a third-hand edited translation of a book written 200 years after his death by somebody who wasn't there and didn't speak Aramaic?
For AlanI repeat: this is a science forum. Assertion is not proof. Show us the evidence. I agree with "Incredible".
"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made" I thought this verse might interest you. It is referring to Christ as the One through whom everything in the universe came in to existence. He was fully man and He was GOD. Incredible
Alex Filippenko in the science documentary "The Universe" from PBS said, referring to the double slit experiment, "... when my eyes are closed, it behaves like a wave. But then, at the last second, before it hits the screen I open my eyes and decide to observe it." And the narrator continues: "At that moment, the electrons in essence, become particles."Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become.Neither statement is true. It's good enough for everyday practical chemistry and engineering but these phenomena are not prevented by any known physics. Indeed since the observable universe seems to have a finite age, physics actually demands ex nihilo creation of matter, by simple observation. We just don't fully understand the mechanism or have the ability to replicate it in the lab yet.
alancalverd
Show us the evidence. I agree with "Incredible".
How about the ex nihilo of the laws of physics?The laws of physics are man-made summaries of observation, nothing more. We observe a universe of finite age, therefore what exists now, once did not exist. Some folks wonder how it happened, some folks assert who did it. Being of an enquiring mind, I prefer the "how".
.A century later, influenza continues to defeat every attempt to prevent or cure it,Apart from the vaccines, and treatment.
Why do you post something which is so obviously wrong?
Tell me why I am wrong.I don't know why you are wrong. I'm guessing at willful ignorance. It's not as if you haven't been told the real facts.
Did you not understand the bit about evidence?Show us the evidence. I agree with "Incredible".
I have been: Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Brian "Head" Welch, Drew Brees, Merle Haggard, the list including their testimonies goes on and on through the millions.
My hypothesis about cell radiation spreads. Of course, it it not just 5GThere is no reason to imagine that it is even slightly related to 5G.
Something/Somebody had to kick this thing offWhy do you think so?Quoteand Jesus Christ said He was His son.Not in any bible I have read. He wasn't that stupid. And even if he had, why would you believe him, let alone a third-hand edited translation of a book written 200 years after his death by somebody who wasn't there and didn't speak Aramaic?
Why do you think so?
God, who cannot lie, spoke ordering the universe into existence. The Old Testament makes that point emphatically.Do you know what begging the question means?
Prove it. No one penned it? So, it is a miraculous book.You just need to read the titles. It is based on the writings of at least eight different characters: Matthew, Mark, Luke, one or possibly two Johns, Paul. Peter, James and Jude, collated and edited over several centuries by umpteen scholars and enthusiasts. It isn't in the least miraculous, compared with say the Book of Mormon which was written by one author with an unknown ink on gold plates then buried in a hill and revealed to Joseph Smith 1400 years later. Now that's what I call a miracle.
You and I are responsible for His death.Not me, mate. I wasn't around at the time. By all means feel as guilty as makes you happy, or seek psychiatric help, but don't blame others for your personal problems: that reduces you to the moral level of a politician.
Former “Cheers” TV star Woody Harrelson recently posted a report “about the negative effects of 5G” and its supposed role in the coronavirus pandemic to his more than 2 million Instagram followers.Thanks for the clarification.
Your view agrees with that of a man paid to pretend about things, but not with that of a man paid to know about things.
Oddly, the evidence (From China etc) still shows you are wrong.
Tell me why I am wrong.I don't know why you are wrong. I'm guessing at willful ignorance. It's not as if you haven't been told the real facts.
Don't you understand that the vaccine prevents many thousands of cases each year (and reduces the impact of tens of thousands more)?
If you don't understand that, you should learn more before you post more.
If you do understand that many cases are prevented, you shouldn't say " influenza continues to defeat every attempt to prevent or cure it"
But, yet you do.
Why is that?
Why do you say stuff that you should know is nonsense?
My hypothesis about cell radiation spreads. Of course, it it not just 5GThere is no reason to imagine that it is even slightly related to 5G.
Just look at the spread through the world.
It is like the stock market. It never fails to amaze me with the ability of "professionals" to pump it up with hype. So what if companies are collapsing and unemployment is highI hear ya Clive. That's one reason I like DCA. I buy more shares when the markets drop, less when prices are high. Nothing compares to the return on investment as the Big Board, historically. It has weathered some nasty storms and continues barreling ahead. I think there's truth in what some folks say, that the markets reflect what they anticipate will happen in the future.
Evidence. Three types. Scientific, legal and anecdotal. Let us take hydroxyquinone against Covid-19
At the moment science says it does not know. Anecdotes say it seems to work.
There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.
Nothing compares to the return on investment as the Big Board,
You know what I meant. It is 2G, 3G, 4G as well as 5G and includes any form of pulsed microwave from any device at all.So, you mean all the forms of phone traffic that are going up where the virus is going down?
Sweden is not practicing distancing or masks. They have high EMF exposure. Are they going to take a very serious hit when it finally reaches the explosive number of cases?Yes, they are. Because not controlling a virus by the mechanisms that are known to work will lead to a rise in the number of cases.
So what if companies are collapsing and unemployment is high. It is a buying opportunity. Buy, buy, buy - and the sheeple follow.It certainly makes sense to buy low and sell high, so big dips are an opportunity to speculate on the medium term future. But "the professionals" get their commission whether you buy or sell, as long as you do something.
Plenty of it is comparable to double-blind controlled conditions.No.
Alex Filippenko in the science documentary "The Universe" from PBS said, referring to the double slit experiment, "... when my eyes are closed, it behaves like a wave. But then, at the last second, before it hits the screen I open my eyes and decide to observe it." And the narrator continues: "At that moment, the electrons in essence, become particles."
There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.Yes, he says that.
The "he" you refer to being the narrator- or their scriptwriter.Alex Filippenko in the science documentary "The Universe" from PBS said, referring to the double slit experiment, "... when my eyes are closed, it behaves like a wave. But then, at the last second, before it hits the screen I open my eyes and decide to observe it." And the narrator continues: "At that moment, the electrons in essence, become particles."
Thus proving that he doesn't understand the simplest concept in physics.
The one thing you can say with certainty is that half the people in a courtroom are lying. It is the job of the judge and jury to decide which. And a lot depends on presentation, not facts: "He who defends himself has a fool for a client".There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.Yes, he says that.
It may not be true, but he says it anyway.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html
There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible
Evidence. Three types. Scientific, legal and anecdotal. Let us take hydroxyquinone against Covid-19Bruce Metzger, considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th century said the most confirmed piece of ancient history is that the apostles were certain Christ rose from the dead.
At the moment science says it does not know. Anecdotes say it seems to work.
There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.
considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th centuryBy whom
confirmed piece of ancient history is that the apostles were certain Christ rose from the dead.That seems unlikely.
confirmed as the fact that Nero was an emperor?
The double-slit experiment. ... Most discussions of double-slit experiments with particles refer to Feynman's quote in his lectures: “We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics.Sep 1, 2002Nothing compares to the return on investment as the Big Board,
Over long periods of time, an S&P 500 index fund has historically produced total returns in the 9–10% range.
Meanwhile, real estate prices tend to outpace inflation, but not by much.
Rule of 72 means that at 10% you double your money in 7.2 years.
The one thing you can say with certainty is that half the people in a courtroom are lying. It is the job of the judge and jury to decide which. And a lot depends on presentation, not facts: "He who defends himself has a fool for a client".There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.Yes, he says that.
It may not be true, but he says it anyway.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html
Bruce Metzger, considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th century said the most confirmed piece of ancient history is that the apostles were certain Christ rose from the dead.Pity we don't have any first-hand accounts of their discovery, then.
God doesn't play dice.Nor do unicorns, and for the same reason.
God doesn't play dice.Nor do unicorns, and for the same reason.
Smoking and air pollution make people more susceptible to dying from Covid-19. Yet electrosmog is said be absolutely safe. Not according to myexperienceopinion.
Smoking and air pollution make people more susceptible to dying from Covid-19. Yet electrosmog is said be absolutely safe. Not according to my experience.Yes.
https://magdahavas.com/corona-virus-and-5g-is-there-a-connection/
...March 21, 2020. Several people have asked me the question that is circulating among EMF experts, “Is there a connection between the outbreak of the Covid-19 and deployment of 5G networks around the world?”
...The best scientific evidence we have is that exposure to electrosmog (non-ionizing radiation from power frequencies to microwaves) impairs the immune system. This is well documented in the scientific literature. If your immune system is compromised because of electrosmog or because of certain medications you are taking or because you are elderly or very young you are likely to have a more severe and/or prolonged response to CoVId-19.
...We have evidence that some people have an autonomic nervous system response to microwave radiation.
...We have evidence that some individuals develop rouleau of their red blood cells. In other words, their red blood cells instead of repelling each other begin to stick together making the blood more viscous. This could impede oxygen delivery to cells making breathing more laboured.
...Some claim that the CoVic-19 outbreak was more severe in areas that had deployed 5G millimetre waves early and that somehow this radiation is making the virus more infectious or that people are responding to the millimetre waves rather than the virus. This is a possibility but currently there is no evidence to support this assertion.
We have evidence that some infectious agents became more virulent following deployment of other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum and an excellent book on this is “The Invisible Rainbow” by Arthur Firstenberg
confirmed as the fact that Nero was an emperor?The double-slit experiment. ... Most discussions of double-slit experiments with particles refer to Feynman's quote in his lectures: “We choose to examine a phenomenon which is impossible, absolutely impossible, to explain in any classical way, and which has in it the heart of quantum mechanics.Sep 1, 2002Nothing compares to the return on investment as the Big Board,
Over long periods of time, an S&P 500 index fund has historically produced total returns in the 9–10% range.
Meanwhile, real estate prices tend to outpace inflation, but not by much.
Rule of 72 means that at 10% you double your money in 7.2 years.
God doesn't play dice.
Smoking and air pollution make people more susceptible to dying from Covid-19. Yet electrosmog is said be absolutely safe. Not according to my experience.Yes.
https://magdahavas.com/corona-virus-and-5g-is-there-a-connection/
...March 21, 2020. Several people have asked me the question that is circulating among EMF experts, “Is there a connection between the outbreak of the Covid-19 and deployment of 5G networks around the world?”
...The best scientific evidence we have is that exposure to electrosmog (non-ionizing radiation from power frequencies to microwaves) impairs the immune system. This is well documented in the scientific literature. If your immune system is compromised because of electrosmog or because of certain medications you are taking or because you are elderly or very young you are likely to have a more severe and/or prolonged response to CoVId-19.
...We have evidence that some people have an autonomic nervous system response to microwave radiation.
...We have evidence that some individuals develop rouleau of their red blood cells. In other words, their red blood cells instead of repelling each other begin to stick together making the blood more viscous. This could impede oxygen delivery to cells making breathing more laboured.
...Some claim that the CoVic-19 outbreak was more severe in areas that had deployed 5G millimetre waves early and that somehow this radiation is making the virus more infectious or that people are responding to the millimetre waves rather than the virus. This is a possibility but currently there is no evidence to support this assertion.
We have evidence that some infectious agents became more virulent following deployment of other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum and an excellent book on this is “The Invisible Rainbow” by Arthur Firstenberg
And the paper they cite says this (with my emphasis)
"In this review, the impacts of weak RF/MW fields, including cell phone radiation, on various immune functions, both in vitro and in vivo, are discussed. The bulk of available evidence clearly indicates that various shifts in the number and/or activity of immunocompetent cells are possible, however the results are inconsistent. For example, a number of lymphocyte functions have been found to be enhanced and weakened within single experiments based on exposure to similar intensities of MW radiation."
Do you understand what that's saying.
there is no consistent effect.
And that's the paper the people plugging the idea cite as "evidence".
What does that say about the rest of the research?
Tell me why I am wrong.I don't know why you are wrong. I'm guessing at willful ignorance. It's not as if you haven't been told the real facts.
Don't you understand that the vaccine prevents many thousands of cases each year (and reduces the impact of tens of thousands more)?
If you don't understand that, you should learn more before you post more.
If you do understand that many cases are prevented, you shouldn't say " influenza continues to defeat every attempt to prevent or cure it"
But, yet you do.
Why is that?
Why do you say stuff that you should know is nonsense?
You make me sigh a lot. Sigh. Why do you persist in trying to prove yourself right and prove others always wrong?
We have flu all the time. Some seasons are worse. The vaccines are only effective for a particular strain which often is not the latest. So what if you prevent some illnesses. The basic statement is that influenza continues to plague humankind in its various forms and science is has not won the battle as it has with other diseases. The age-old technique of isolation (voluntary or by die-off of pockets) is the only technique we have to resist the spread.
this user is currently not responding to messages from;BoredChemistBut you just did. Is this another manifestation of the Cretan Conundrum?
God doesn't play dice.Nor do unicorns, and for the same reason.
And you know because you go out and play with those unicorns. They simply refuse to gamble (they do gambol - right?). :)
this user is currently not responding to messages from;BoredChemistBut you just did. Is this another manifestation of the Cretan Conundrum?
A slow day. I was about to post that an absence of posts from CliveG does not mean an absence of CliveG. Although a sudden departure may mean exactly that.Jesus, help this doctor and her husband who are suffering. I pray they would look to you and find in you the glory and wonder of your love.
Just a small comment. My wife's daughter-in-law is a doctor who works at the large public hospitals in Joburg. Bugs seem to circulate a lot. She had been sick with a chest infection for a while and took sick leave three weeks ago to got rid of it. Her husband (my wife's son) now has the infection. Fever, headaches and chest pains. But they have been in lock-down and the family has not left the house for nearly two weeks. If he got it from her, it is a long incubation - typical of Covid. She was tested but it was negative. We wonder if the test was negative. We wonder if she had it and got over it just when she was tested. My wife and I also had fever, headache and tightness of our chests along with fatigue a week ago.
Would it be helpful to have testing that shows that shows one has had the virus and is now over it? Antigens, I think.
SA has about 1,700 cases and 13 deaths. New Zealand has about 1,000 cases and 1 death. These ratios are low. I wonder why.
It cannot be faith in God. SA is religious and NZ is not. 8)
"Inconsistent effects" is not "no effects"."inconsistent effects" is exactly what you get when there's no real effect.
It means there are multiple mechanism at play. After all, we are dealing with tiny effects in a human body.
It cannot be faith in God.Well spotted.
Evidence. Three types. Scientific, legal and anecdotal. Let us take hydroxyquinone against Covid-19
At the moment science says it does not know. Anecdotes say it seems to work.
There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.
Jesus, help this doctor and her husband who are suffering. I pray they would look to you and find in you the glory and wonder of your love.
Evidence. Three types. Scientific, legal and anecdotal. Let us take hydroxyquinone against Covid-19
At the moment science says it does not know. Anecdotes say it seems to work.
There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.
"duffyd You want everyone else to believe in something you were told was true. Without any evidence. Because the grown ups that taught you that were the ones you thought you could trust implicitly."
"Inconsistent effects" is not "no effects"."inconsistent effects" is exactly what you get when there's no real effect.
It means there are multiple mechanism at play. After all, we are dealing with tiny effects in a human body.
"After all, we are dealing with tiny effects "
Or none.It cannot be faith in God.Well spotted.
Bruce Metzger, considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th century said the most confirmed piece of ancient history is that the apostles were certain Christ rose from the dead.Pity we don't have any first-hand accounts of their discovery, then.
I always assumed that if you can roll a stone in front of a tomb, someone else can roll it away again. That's how we physicists work with engineers. And in the slightly weird world of medical physics, we are quite used to moving dead bodies from A to B, for all sorts of reasons.
Not that it matters much. J Arthur Findlay (The Rock of Truth) lists 13 other crucified saviour gods, born of virgins, who rose from the dead. I mentioned this to my excellent RE teacher, back in my schooldays. He replied "Indeed, but I'm only paid to teach you about one of them." Good bloke - used to conduct weddings on Saturday morning and referee rugby in the afternoon.
As I've mentioned before, I would love to debate these matters with those who want a true, honest, fair debate and not a bunch of B.S.A debate means you address people's points.
Metzger wrote in no uncertain terms, "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain than that the disciples believed that, after being crucified, dead, and buried, Christ rose again from the tomb on the third day, and that at intervals thereafter he met and conversed with them.”
considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th centuryBy whomconfirmed piece of ancient history is that the apostles were certain Christ rose from the dead.That seems unlikely.
Is it, for example, as well confirmed as the fact that Nero was an emperor?
To tick that box it would need to be stamped onto all the coins of the era.
Is the Apostles' opinion really that well confirmed?
Even if it was; so what?
The question isn't about their belief, but about the fact.
And even if (this is now piling three levels of "what if" on top of eachother) he lived on after the crucifixion, couldn't it just be that the Romans botched an execution?
But seriously, did you actually believe the bit about " the most confirmed piece of ancient history "?
Because if you did, it just shows a lack of clear thinking.
In Jewish law, it was punishable by death to get on somebody's nerves, correct?No. No occupying power has ever ceded the death sentence to its subjects. Crucifixion was a Roman execution - the only permitted biblical method is stoning. You should study the bible.
It took you long enough.In Jewish law, it was punishable by death to get on somebody's nerves, correct?No. No occupying power has ever ceded the death sentence to its subjects. Crucifixion was a Roman execution - the only permitted biblical method is stoning. You should study the bible.
Practically everything we need to know is wrapped up in this brilliant statement by Professor Metzger, Ehrman's reason for attending Princeton Theological Seminary. "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain than that the disciples believed that, after being crucified, dead, and buried, Christ rose again from the tomb on the third day, and that at intervals thereafter he met and conversed with them.”
A Harvard study links air pollution to bad covid-19 outcomes.
Guess what is also likely to coexist with air pollution?
Guess what is also likely to coexist with air pollution?poverty.
Nothing in history is more certain than that the disciples believed that, after being crucified, dead, and buried, Christ rose again from the tomb on the third day, and that at intervals thereafter he met and conversed with them.”Some things are much more certain. Various popes believed, and insisted against the evidence, that everyone else should believed the sun moves round the earth. If that is the required level of Christian certainty, it labels millions of people as fools. But that's hardly surprising when you watch them queueing to eat the body and blood of Christ once a week. Barbaric fools.
Disappointed. The Wire was all that. Maybe so, except for the writing, the acting, the plot, the direction, the filming, the botched accents of inner city thugs, the fake scenes of violence, the timing, the melodramatic overplayed attempts at criminal jive. Other than that, it was all that.The one thing you can say with certainty is that half the people in a courtroom are lying. It is the job of the judge and jury to decide which. And a lot depends on presentation, not facts: "He who defends himself has a fool for a client".There is a book called "The Case for Christ" by Lee Stroebel which deals with the evidence for Christ as if it were a legal matter to prove. He says legally anyone would win a legal case based on the evidence considered admissible.Yes, he says that.
It may not be true, but he says it anyway.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html
My experience is that judges want someone to write their order and their reasons for judgment and if a layman happens to have a lawyer who has connections inside the court (and especially outside the court), the judge does not do his job and dispense justice. And the appeal Courts do not want the status quo upset so they dismiss appeals with one sentence. I have seen many lawyers rip off their own clients. At least when I represented myself, I had an honest lawyer.
When a jury is involved, the selection of the jury and the manipulation of the jury (a la Simpson) can play a big part. As we see on many forums, a fact can be twisted and presented in such a way that it means the opposite of what it should. Most jurors are are emotional and not analytical. One sees that with the historical convictions of blacks in the South.
The only fair and just judgments happen in the afterlife.
2,000 years after they thought they were finished with him, they still can't stop him.Give it time.
His buddies also called him GODcitation needed, particularly as none of the current bible was written by anyone who knew him.
citation needed, particularly as none of the current bible was written by anyone who knew him.
If you believe the bible, you would believe his friends called him "rabbi". No rabbi was ever criticised for being mainstream. But it's pretty clear you haven't read the bible, so I can't criticise you for not understanding it.
Stay clear of religion and lead a good life, my friend. Farewell.
I disagree. Don't judge others. State your opinion and let others state theirs. Move on. Don't accuse those who disagree with you of lying. How immature. Additionally, I have asked you to leave me alone. I am not interested in your opinions.Practically everything we need to know is wrapped up in this brilliant statement by Professor Metzger, Ehrman's reason for attending Princeton Theological Seminary. "The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. Nothing in history is more certain than that the disciples believed that, after being crucified, dead, and buried, Christ rose again from the tomb on the third day, and that at intervals thereafter he met and conversed with them.”
You are right , but not for the reason you think.
It is very obvious that some things- such as the existence of the Emperor Nero are more certain.
So, it is very obvious that Professor Metzger, Ehrman is factually incorrect.
Any school-kid would understand why he's wrong- because each and every Roman coin with Nero's head stamped into it shows that Nero was "king". And, of course, there is a lot of lother evidence.
And yet, in spite of the clear evidence that the man is not telling the truth, people still cite him as some sort of authority.
Andy ou can't even claim that it's just that you hadn't noticed.
I have pointed it out a few times.
But you still won't accept that he's not telling the truth.
What did you come to this site for?
I disagree.There are many words for people who disagree with reality.
considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th centuryBy whomconfirmed piece of ancient history is that the apostles were certain Christ rose from the dead.That seems unlikely.
Is it, for example, as well confirmed as the fact that Nero was an emperor?
To tick that box it would need to be stamped onto all the coins of the era.
Is the Apostles' opinion really that well confirmed?
Even if it was; so what?
The question isn't about their belief, but about the fact.
And even if (this is now piling three levels of "what if" on top of eachother) he lived on after the crucifixion, couldn't it just be that the Romans botched an execution?
But seriously, did you actually believe the bit about " the most confirmed piece of ancient history "?
Because if you did, it just shows a lack of clear thinking.
considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th centuryBy whom
Look it up.
HE is the leading figure in history. More people are aware of who him than any other human being. He's changed more lives than all the people who were alive when Nero ruled temporarily.Not bad for a myth.
OK, so you need to find out how the quote function works, and you need to work out who has the burden of proof (Hint: it's you in this case)considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th centuryBy whom
Look it up.
HE is the leading figure in history. More people are aware of who he is than any other human being. He's changed more lives than all the people who were alive when Nero ruled temporarily.Not bad for a myth.
There's next to no actual physical or documentary evidence he existed.OK, so you need to find out how the quote function works, and you need to work out who has the burden of proof (Hint: it's you in this case)considered the greatest textual critic of the 20th centuryBy whom
Look it up.
You base your opinion on what? Nothing. You made the claim he is a myth without documentation or physical evidence. It's your wild conjecture based on nothing but whim.
You refuse to identify or define evidence. Evidence is identifiable and definable. You have no foundation to exclude anything.
No burden. You question it. Question it all you want.
I spoke to my daughter who is a veterinary doctor in Virginia USA. She started describing neurological symptoms to me that she is having.This thread has wandered way of topic, is promoting false news and turning into a slanging match.
I spoke to my daughter who is a veterinary doctor in Virginia USA. She started describing neurological symptoms to me that she is having.This thread has wandered way of topic, is promoting false news and turning into a slanging match.
Bring it back on topic.
Can science prove that God exists? She is a committed Christian who is very scientific but sees no contradiction in her belief in God and her love of science.The title of this thread is “Can science prove God exists?”.
Once more it is my belief that all this information, which came from just chatting to various people, is another way that God gives us information that cannot be found any other way.
I understand the pressure the forum may be getting from the Telco industry.This statement shows you don’t understand.
...tell me what restrictions I have to abide by, and I will do so. Apart from some humorous "give and take" I do not think I am "slanging anyone off".The comment on slagging off was a general observation on this thread, see a recent quote below. I appreciate feelings run high on areas of belief, but let’s keep this rational.
If you believe the bible, you would believe his friends called him "rabbi". No rabbi was ever criticised for being mainstream. But it's pretty clear you haven't read the bible, so I can't criticise you for not understanding it.
Stay clear of religion and lead a good life, my friend. Farewell.
You better split. You were having your fanny for lunch. Excellent time to take cover, just as you brush off your premise with more generalized bull.
Her husband was very ill recently and she told me that if she did not get involved with his care in hospital he would have died because of a lack of standards.So sorry Clive. Dear God, show your glory in this situation. Comfort the hurting
There are many others who recognise that the value of religion is found in its capacity to provide a sense of communityThe sense of community is seen within the same religion, but even in this narrow scope, we can still find communities divided by different sect/denomination within the same religion. The bridge between different religions is usually built from different ideologies, mostly politics, such as nationalism, globalism, humanism.
Proving the existence of any god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking any god.Receive the Holy Spirit in a charismatic church and see what happens.
Proving the existence of one particular god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon (or a series of phenomena) which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking that particular god. Logically, it will also reject the involvement of other gods in those phenomena.
Proving the existence of any god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking any god.
Proving the existence of one particular god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon (or a series of phenomena) which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking that particular god. Logically, it will also reject the involvement of other gods in those phenomena.
It means that your proof is not scientific.Proving the existence of any god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking any god.
Proving the existence of one particular god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon (or a series of phenomena) which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking that particular god. Logically, it will also reject the involvement of other gods in those phenomena.
Your post is quite logical and makes sense. But what happens if a God decides to involve a person in a phenomenon without being invoked? Like my knowing a biker would die about 5 minutes. I got the impression that God did that to demonstrate his existence to me. And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?
I suppose it means that you lack the proof that God involved.
Name one charismatic church. What makes you think that your particular church is charismatic, while many others are not?Proving the existence of any god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking any god.Receive the Holy Spirit in a charismatic church and see what happens.
Proving the existence of one particular god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon (or a series of phenomena) which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking that particular god. Logically, it will also reject the involvement of other gods in those phenomena.
It means that your proof is not scientific.Proving the existence of any god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking any god.
Proving the existence of one particular god scientifically should contain a demonstration of an objective phenomenon (or a series of phenomena) which is impossible to explain scientifically without invoking that particular god. Logically, it will also reject the involvement of other gods in those phenomena.
Your post is quite logical and makes sense. But what happens if a God decides to involve a person in a phenomenon without being invoked? Like my knowing a biker would die about 5 minutes. I got the impression that God did that to demonstrate his existence to me. And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?
I suppose it means that you lack the proof that God involved.
Her husband was very ill recently and she told me that if she did not get involved with his care in hospital he would have died because of a lack of standards.So sorry Clive. Dear God, show your glory in this situation. Comfort the hurting
Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.So, evil and exploitative then.
God did answer my daughter's prayers when he got lung cancer and they were told he had a less than 10% chance.Perhaps God enjoyed the prayers He received as a result of giving that innocent man cancer.
But when you go to a doctor and tell them you have neurological problems like pain and memory loss and tingling sensations, you do not expect them to tell you it should not be happening because all the current scientific tests do not indicate any known problem.Have you tried fMRI tests?
And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?You don't need a god to experience things you can't explain. Charlatans invoke a god to avoid having to explain things or deal with the inexplicable, but it's generally more useful, interesting and profitable (and fun) to investigate.
Alan insisted that the trash that we call the N.T, was not even written for 200 years after Christ was crucified and raised from the grave.No I didn't. I never suggested he was "raised from the grave", only that if a rock can be moved into place by humans, it can be moved away by the same agents. If God had done it, there would have been no need to move the stone. This the bible seems to contradict rather than support the idea of resurrection.
Your post is quite logical and makes sense. But what happens if a God decides to involve a person in a phenomenon without being invoked? Like my knowing a biker would die about 5 minutes. I got the impression that God did that to demonstrate his existence to me. And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?The situation is worse than just lacking proof - which is correct anyway.
I suppose it means that you lack the proof that God involved.
Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.So, evil and exploitative then.
Nice.
Your post is quite logical and makes sense. But what happens if a God decides to involve a person in a phenomenon without being invoked? Like my knowing a biker would die about 5 minutes. I got the impression that God did that to demonstrate his existence to me. And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?The situation is worse than just lacking proof - which is correct anyway.
I suppose it means that you lack the proof that God involved.
Christians, who incidentally believe in God, also believe that information derived from Tarot cards, spirits, psychic phenomena, etc originate from the devil. The idea is that he gives away true titbits of information to the gullible so that they will believe the big lie he gives it to them eg 5G + Covid19. So Christians would say you are an agent of the devil, and you have no proof that you are not.
And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?You don't need a god to experience things you can't explain. Charlatans invoke a god to avoid having to explain things or deal with the inexplicable, but it's generally more useful, interesting and profitable (and fun) to investigate.
But when you go to a doctor and tell them you have neurological problems like pain and memory loss and tingling sensations, you do not expect them to tell you it should not be happening because all the current scientific tests do not indicate any known problem.Have you tried fMRI tests?
God did answer my daughter's prayers when he got lung cancer and they were told he had a less than 10% chance.Perhaps God enjoyed the prayers He received as a result of giving that innocent man cancer.
There's certainly enough in your experience to warrant investigation, but none of it confirms the existence of an invisible third party.
Trust you not to recognise the similarity.Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.So, evil and exploitative then.
Nice.
Trust you to extend my analogy past the similarities.
Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.So, evil and exploitative then.
Nice.
Trust you to extend my analogy past the similarities.
Trust you not to recognise the similarity.
One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.
Define what your god is?
Then they have redefined the word god. Many cultures don't consider their gods as the most important things in their lives.One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.
Define what your god is?
Actually anything can become a God to a person. It's what they value most or consider most important what they worship in ignorance or awareness.
noun
1.
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
Alan insisted that the trash that we call the N.T, was not even written for 200 years after Christ was crucified and raised from the grave.No I didn't. I never suggested he was "raised from the grave", ***HOLD ON Dr. AL!, you most certainly did. You quoted numerous words from the N.T. proving HE was a Rabbi. Don't pick and choose. If you believe those words, you believe the words about the resurrection.*** only that if a rock can be moved into place by humans, it can be moved away by the same agents. If God had done it, there would have been no need to move the stone. This the bible seems to contradict rather than support the idea of resurrection.
***Who would roll it away, Al? The Romans stole it? The disciples who would use the corpse to prove HE rose from the dead?
Since the Acts of the Apostles and all the Epistles deal with what people did after Jesus died, they cannot possibly have been written when he was alive.
It's worth reading the NT before basing your philosophy on a misinterpretation of it, and always remember to engage brain before operating mouth.
There's certainly enough in your experience to warrant investigation, but none of it confirms the existence of an invisible third party.
I made a summary for my daughter:I sympathize, Clive. Same exact things happened to me the day I got married.
The bottom line is that cell towers are very bad, cell phone use should be minimized and WiFi should not be used unless necessary.
My symptoms. Which varied depending on exposure and time.
Typical radiation values (in peak uW/sqm) are: 3,000 in old house next to tower, 300 next to other towers, 30 when I screen our old house, 2 in suburbia away from a tower, 0.2 in our new house, 0.02 in the country-side and on holiday. The legal limit is 10,000,000 which uses heating as a criteria.
A sharp rise in tinnitus
Noticed that a drop in hearing which got worse with time
Disturbed sleep waking tired scrambled dreams
Memory loss and problems spelling.
Mental confusion.
Skin growths on my forehead.
Clumsiness and dyslexia loss of balance
Four episodes of brief full body convulsions
Hand tremors
Nausea
Headaches
Anxiety and irritability.
Irregular heatbeat at times.
Higher than usual blood pressure.
Peripheral neuropathy in feet and toes.
Frequent diarrhoea
Severe and sharp pain in my right eye socket near my nose
3 metal tooth fillings fractured and broke
Knee replacement healing reversed when exposed
Burning sensation in my right hip where a nerve was being compressed.
Sharp stabbing pain in my side where I have a neuroma and the nerves have no myelin sheath.
My wife had similar symptoms (excepting teeth and knee) but not as bad. However, she had had facial basal cell carcinoma and a melanoma on her chest. She said if her cell phone was next to her at night she would feel unwell.
Our dogs showed depression and hearing loss.
All signs of ageing. Pity, but that's how Duffy's god designed us.
All signs of ageing. Pity, but that's how Duffy's god designed us.
I made a summary for my daughter:I sympathize, Clive. Same exact things happened to me the day I got married.
The bottom line is that cell towers are very bad, cell phone use should be minimized and WiFi should not be used unless necessary.
My symptoms. Which varied depending on exposure and time.
Typical radiation values (in peak uW/sqm) are: 3,000 in old house next to tower, 300 next to other towers, 30 when I screen our old house, 2 in suburbia away from a tower, 0.2 in our new house, 0.02 in the country-side and on holiday. The legal limit is 10,000,000 which uses heating as a criteria.
A sharp rise in tinnitus
Noticed that a drop in hearing which got worse with time
Disturbed sleep waking tired scrambled dreams
Memory loss and problems spelling.
Mental confusion.
Skin growths on my forehead.
Clumsiness and dyslexia loss of balance
Four episodes of brief full body convulsions
Hand tremors
Nausea
Headaches
Anxiety and irritability.
Irregular heatbeat at times.
Higher than usual blood pressure.
Peripheral neuropathy in feet and toes.
Frequent diarrhoea
Severe and sharp pain in my right eye socket near my nose
3 metal tooth fillings fractured and broke
Knee replacement healing reversed when exposed
Burning sensation in my right hip where a nerve was being compressed.
Sharp stabbing pain in my side where I have a neuroma and the nerves have no myelin sheath.
My wife had similar symptoms (excepting teeth and knee) but not as bad. However, she had had facial basal cell carcinoma and a melanoma on her chest. She said if her cell phone was next to her at night she would feel unwell.
Our dogs showed depression and hearing loss.
Masks. Why does it take so long for old lessons to be re-learned? One reason is that God is taking advantage of arrogance and know-it-all attitudes to spread this virus.You forgot to include evidence that the masks worked.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/18/china/great-manchurian-plague-china-hnk-intl/index.html
Wu began post-mortem exams of victims and crucially established that the disease was pneumonic plague and not bubonic (the difference between the forms of plague is the location of infection; in pneumonic plague the infection is in the lungs, in bubonic plague, the lymph nodes). He also heavily recommended the wearing of face masks.
By early 1911, China had mobilized doctors and epidemiologists from across China to converge on Harbin. Wu knew there was a big deadline looming. Chinese New Year was officially January 30 and Wu knew that limiting travel would be almost impossible during the annual migration home for so many Chinese people.
If the infection rate wasn't brought down, then it risked becoming a nationwide epidemic.
The response was sometimes harsh -- any lodging house where an infection appeared was burnt to the ground. But overall Wu's anti-plague measures worked. So-called "sanitary zones," quarantines, lockdowns, isolation, travel restrictions and face masks were all implemented and appear to have brought the infection rate in Harbin down by the end of January.
That is the result of an overproduction of reactive oxygen species in all cells which is caused by cell phone microwaves disturbing the calcium ion channels in our cellular membranes.Then it has happened to all of us.
And when three six year old kids die in six months in one school - one cancer, one heart attack and one other old age disease - does that not ring alarm bells?No
That is the result of an overproduction of reactive oxygen species in all cells which is caused by cell phone microwaves disturbing the calcium ion channels in our cellular membranes.Then it has happened to all of us.
Except it hasn't.
So we know you are wrong.
Why post stuff that's clearly wrong?
Masks. Why does it take so long for old lessons to be re-learned? One reason is that God is taking advantage of arrogance and know-it-all attitudes to spread this virus.You forgot to include evidence that the masks worked.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/18/china/great-manchurian-plague-china-hnk-intl/index.html
Wu began post-mortem exams of victims and crucially established that the disease was pneumonic plague and not bubonic (the difference between the forms of plague is the location of infection; in pneumonic plague the infection is in the lungs, in bubonic plague, the lymph nodes). He also heavily recommended the wearing of face masks.
By early 1911, China had mobilized doctors and epidemiologists from across China to converge on Harbin. Wu knew there was a big deadline looming. Chinese New Year was officially January 30 and Wu knew that limiting travel would be almost impossible during the annual migration home for so many Chinese people.
If the infection rate wasn't brought down, then it risked becoming a nationwide epidemic.
The response was sometimes harsh -- any lodging house where an infection appeared was burnt to the ground. But overall Wu's anti-plague measures worked. So-called "sanitary zones," quarantines, lockdowns, isolation, travel restrictions and face masks were all implemented and appear to have brought the infection rate in Harbin down by the end of January.
You also forgot to include anything really related to the topic.
Show me the testing that has been performed by modern scientists.Was that intended to be some sort of difficult challenge?
Just as they threw out silver as an antimicrobial for so many years.During which years do you think silver was not used as an antimicrobial?
Show me the testing that has been performed by modern scientists.Was that intended to be some sort of difficult challenge?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr619.pdf
Or were you just to damned lazy to google it?
Why have no protection when some protection is better?Because it produces a false sense of security.
Live viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested.i.e. they don't really work.
Evidence for God (and Christ). If this is a forgery, it is remarkable.Radiocarbon dating in 1988 has shown that it is a forgery.
Did God have a hand in manipulating the forgery?If He din then it's another of His screwups.
The feeling back then was that it was a medieval forgery,"... yep, because it is.
It was unlikely, he thought, that a medieval forger would have such a command of human anatomy.It was not impossible that a medieval forger had seen an actual crucifixion.
the only thing it could have been was the resurrection."This sort of thing illustrates my point.
When it's all over (if ever) and we take stock, we will indeed have a better appreciation of God. He is the evil bastard who created humans as food for parasites. Which is why human parasites evangelise.
Big Al should know. He's the genius who said the N.T. was written 200 years later.How silly!
In a nutshell, surgical masks are intended to stop staff sneezing and spitting into open wounds. They do that very well. But operating theaters and clean wards have positive pressure filtered air, so in most cases it's reasonably safe to inhale, and the mask doesn't have to fit closely.Don't know about you boys, but I trust my very life to a guy who despises people who try to save his behind. In case you haven't noticed Big Al knows everything. He knows Christ was one heck of a nice fella. How he knows that is anyone's guess. O no! I forgot. He knows because 200 years after something (he won't say what) happened somebody wrote something about somebody called Jesus that suggested He was a good ol' boy, so Al believes. Now, that is science, baby.
Thus a surgical mask is a socially good thing to wear in public in the current circumstance, as you may be infectious without knowing it. But it is pretty useless for self protection in a crowd (like a tube train) or when handling a patient who is known to be infectious because it won't protect you against inhaled aerosols. A builder's dust mask is a better fit and is designed to prevent the inhalation of droplets and particles. A valve is useful in a high performance HEPA mask so you can exhale without steaming up your goggles!
I made a summary for my daughter:I sympathize, Clive. Same exact things happened to me the day I got married.
The bottom line is that cell towers are very bad, cell phone use should be minimized and WiFi should not be used unless necessary.
My symptoms. Which varied depending on exposure and time.
Typical radiation values (in peak uW/sqm) are: 3,000 in old house next to tower, 300 next to other towers, 30 when I screen our old house, 2 in suburbia away from a tower, 0.2 in our new house, 0.02 in the country-side and on holiday. The legal limit is 10,000,000 which uses heating as a criteria.
A sharp rise in tinnitus
Noticed that a drop in hearing which got worse with time
Disturbed sleep waking tired scrambled dreams
Memory loss and problems spelling.
Mental confusion.
Skin growths on my forehead.
Clumsiness and dyslexia loss of balance
Four episodes of brief full body convulsions
Hand tremors
Nausea
Headaches
Anxiety and irritability.
Irregular heatbeat at times.
Higher than usual blood pressure.
Peripheral neuropathy in feet and toes.
Frequent diarrhoea
Severe and sharp pain in my right eye socket near my nose
3 metal tooth fillings fractured and broke
Knee replacement healing reversed when exposed
Burning sensation in my right hip where a nerve was being compressed.
Sharp stabbing pain in my side where I have a neuroma and the nerves have no myelin sheath.
My wife had similar symptoms (excepting teeth and knee) but not as bad. However, she had had facial basal cell carcinoma and a melanoma on her chest. She said if her cell phone was next to her at night she would feel unwell.
Our dogs showed depression and hearing loss.
So it is my punishment for having been married seven times, is it? ;)
All signs of ageing. Pity, but that's how Duffy's god designed us.It breaks my heart to see Big Al wallow in so much misery every second of every day. He's had a terribly difficult life. He deserves more pity from us. Obviously, he can't generate enough on his own. I feel for you Al. I know how rough it's been for you. Tragic. Just so tragic. Everyone always singled you out. Poor, poor Al. Don't cry Al. It's going to be okay.
Duffy's going to ignore it and say something rude in an attempt to divert attention from his lack of credibility.I must be clairvoyant or something.
How do I know what I know? I sometimes read the bible when I'm waiting my call in an operating theater.
How do I know what I know? I sometimes read the bible when I'm waiting my call in an operating theater.
When a jet filled with passengers and crew suddenly plunges 35,000 feet without warning, "GOD help me" is the refrain repeated over and over no one is embarrassed to scream. That's scientifically proven. He always responds.At last, scientific proof of the beneficence of the almighty.
When a jet filled with passengers and crew suddenly plunges 35,000 feet without warning, "GOD help me" is the refrain repeated over and over no one is embarrassed to scream. That's scientifically proven. He always responds.At last, scientific proof of the beneficence of the almighty.
If we compare the outcomes of AA11 (11/9/2001), AF447 (1/6/2009) and BA09 (24/6/1982) the first conclusion is that Duffy's loathsome deity hates Americans (3000 dead) and Frenchmen (228 dead) but is, of course, on the side of the British (no casualties).
The odd thing is that the first two cases involved fully functioning aircraft, whereas BA09 had all four engines flamed out. So consider US1549 (15/1/2009) (low altitude, full of Americans, just like AA11) - no major injuries.
Ergo, Duffy's god prefers gliders. Which explains why glider pilots deserve the obeisance of mere mortals. We were put on this earth to save mankind.
When a jet filled with passengers and crew suddenly plunges 35,000 feet without warning, "GOD help me" is the refrain repeated over and over no one is embarrassed to scream. That's scientifically proven. He always responds.
Wormwood, a new recruit, is under the tutelage of senior commander Screwtape. He is green behind the ears and tends to think like his human patients do. Screwtape becomes impatient with his lack of progress tempting humans, constantly reminding him that the death of anyone on good terms with the Enemy is the loss of all they hold dear.
"The War is relevant, writes Screwtape, only in that it affects the Patient’s state of mind. The mere fact of air raids on the Patient’s town should be, for Wormwood, beside the point. Wormwood should be trying to keep the Patient alive. Young tempters are being swayed by Hell’s own propaganda, writes Screwtape. Hell has made humans think of death as evil, but, if their souls are prepared like the Patient’s is, death is a good thing. It brings them to the Enemy. Wormwood must remember that it is very difficult for humans to persevere. He should keep the Patient alive until middle age. Then, the Patient may become worldly and lower his guard. Even if the Patient is prosperous, Wormwood can use his good fortune to make him love the earth and not the Enemy. Young people even if they are not religious, are idealistic and detached from the world. It is easier to wean their souls off of eternal thoughts little by little over the course of many years."
A few Spark notes on letters18-21 of CS Lewis' work on training of junior devils in The Screwtape Letters.
Why have no protection when some protection is better?Because it produces a false sense of security.
From your quoteLive viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested.i.e. they don't really work.
I'm not against masks, I'm against bad masks.
So why do the news networks educate the public about how to wear a mask and take it off, rather than wear no masks.For the same reason they show pictures of young pretty women. It sells better.
Of course, you would rather die than wear a mask that was not 100% effective.No, I wouldn't .
God uses not only our arrogance but our ignorance against us.Perhaps you should be more careful.
When a jet filled with passengers and crew suddenly plunges 35,000 feet without warning, "GOD help me" is the refrain repeated over and over no one is embarrassed to scream.And the plane crashed because there's no God there to save it.
Why have no protection when some protection is better?Because it produces a false sense of security.
From your quoteLive viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested.i.e. they don't really work.
I'm not against masks, I'm against bad masks.
I have to quote your post once more.
In reply you said you said I was wrong that you would die than wear a surgical mask.
But here you say an ordinary surgical mask is not only a waste of time, but gives a false sense of security and therefore should not be worn. Yet your link showed a 6 fold reduction. To me that means you have improved your chances by at least 83 percent. It may even be that the lowered viral load gives a 95 to 99 percent protection against infection. If you get an infection by wearing no mask, you might die. You prefer to wear not mask, hence it is logical for me to state that your choice is a risk of dying rather than wearing a mask with a lower risk of dying. I can logically say you prefer to die rather than wear a surgical mask.
Oh course, I could also say you do not want to admit you have been wrong in you posts about masks. I could make further logical deductions about that but you seem to be rather touchy so I will leave it.
When it's all over (if ever) and we take stock, we will indeed have a better appreciation of God. He is the evil bastard who created humans as food for parasites. Which is why human parasites evangelise.
How do I know what I know? I sometimes read the bible when I'm waiting my call in an operating theater.
Postscript.
Whilst I have no doubt that Jonah Duffy has witnessed and faithfully recorded many uncontrolled descents, I have it on good authority from a forensic phonetician who has analysed dozens of cockpit voice recorders, that the last word on every tape is always "sh1t!". Interesting that, whatever their native language or religion, even in moments of extreme stress, pilots continue to speak English. That's professionalism.
Why have no protection when some protection is better?Because it produces a false sense of security.
From your quoteLive viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested.i.e. they don't really work.
I'm not against masks, I'm against bad masks.
I have to quote your post once more.
In reply you said you said I was wrong that you would die than wear a surgical mask.
But here you say an ordinary surgical mask is not only a waste of time, but gives a false sense of security and therefore should not be worn. Yet your link showed a 6 fold reduction. To me that means you have improved your chances by at least 83 percent. It may even be that the lowered viral load gives a 95 to 99 percent protection against infection. If you get an infection by wearing no mask, you might die. You prefer to wear not mask, hence it is logical for me to state that your choice is a risk of dying rather than wearing a mask with a lower risk of dying. I can logically say you prefer to die rather than wear a surgical mask.
Oh course, I could also say you do not want to admit you have been wrong in you posts about masks. I could make further logical deductions about that but you seem to be rather touchy so I will leave it.
Why have no protection when some protection is better?Because it produces a false sense of security.
From your quoteLive viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested.i.e. they don't really work.
I'm not against masks, I'm against bad masks.
I have to quote your post once more.
In reply you said you said I was wrong that you would die than wear a surgical mask.
But here you say an ordinary surgical mask is not only a waste of time, but gives a false sense of security and therefore should not be worn. Yet your link showed a 6 fold reduction. To me that means you have improved your chances by at least 83 percent. It may even be that the lowered viral load gives a 95 to 99 percent protection against infection. If you get an infection by wearing no mask, you might die. You prefer to wear not mask, hence it is logical for me to state that your choice is a risk of dying rather than wearing a mask with a lower risk of dying. I can logically say you prefer to die rather than wear a surgical mask.
Oh course, I could also say you do not want to admit you have been wrong in you posts about masks. I could make further logical deductions about that but you seem to be rather touchy so I will leave it.
Are you serious? If so, why do you read a book you are so opposed to?I'm not opposed to it, only to idiotic misinterpretations and cynical misrepresentations of it. The King James version contains some of the best English ever written. Just like Shakespeare, the historical sequence is believable if a bit "curated" (to be polite) but I wouldn't base my life on Revelations or a Midsummer Night's Dream, and it's full of useful quotations.
Scholars are open minded, hungry for more information without regard where it might lead. I love real scholarship not the type popularized today. This is a wonderful time to be viewed as an unbelieving scholar.
It is the rage to hate believers and the more justification one has for such bitterness, i.e., status as scholars, the greater and the more vociferous their fanbase becomes. They are on a roll. They are today a frenzied mob demanding in one united, blaspheming, cursing tirade that Christians and their GOD, Jesus Christ, are the true, guilty enemies of social justice, universal love and prosperity for all.
Christians deserve whatever violent, murderous justice that they impose upon us. GOD, JESUS and their devoted, mindless slaves are responsible for every evil visited upon mankind. GOD killed Sharon Tate. GOD starves children to death. (Never mind that an abundance of food rots in storage bins--that too is GOD's doing). Every jet crash is GOD's fault. Every injustice no matter how small is tied directly to GOD's character, HIS will, HIS evil ways. They've got us fixed and we are all going to pay, finally, for our collective treacherous, vile influence.
You nailed it Clive.He didn't even post it correctly.
He has been proven ...No, I have not.
Presenting temptation in the form of beautiful, scantily clad women in front of 16 year old males is an outstanding tool to lead them into all kinds of trouble.Does your mum know what you are doing right now? Don't worry. It isn't a sin*, won't make you go blind, and may even prevent prostate cancer when you grow up.
Whatever the perverts tell you,Which perverts?
Presenting temptation in the form of beautiful, scantily clad women in front of 16 year old males is an outstanding tool to lead them into all kinds of trouble.Does your mum know what you are doing right now? Don't worry. It isn't a sin*, won't make you go blind, and may even prevent prostate cancer when you grow up.
*Whatever the perverts tell you, Onan was punished for refusing to impregnate his sister in law, not for playing with himself. RTM.
I am so much smarter than you.Well, why do you pretend to be an idiot?
Presenting temptation in the form of beautiful, scantily clad women in front of 16 year old males is an outstanding tool to lead them into all kinds of trouble.Does your mum know what you are doing right now? Don't worry. It isn't a sin*, won't make you go blind, and may even prevent prostate cancer when you grow up.
*Whatever the perverts tell you, Onan was punished for refusing to impregnate his sister in law, not for playing with himself. RTM.
Davidman had become interested in C. S. Lewis while still in America. She first met him in August 1952, when she made a trip to the United Kingdom, after a two-year correspondence with him. She planned to finish her book on the Ten Commandments that she had been working on, and which showed influences of Lewis's style of apologetics. After several lunch meetings and walks accompanying Davidman and his brother, Warren Lewis wrote in his diary that "a rapid friendship" had developed between his younger brother and Davidman, whom he described as "a Christian convert of Jewish race, medium height, good figure, horn rimmed specs, quite extraordinarily uninhibited." She spent Christmas and a fortnight at The Kilns with the brothers. Though Davidman was deeply in love with Lewis, there was no reciprocation on his side.[20]
She returned home in January 1953, having received a letter from Gresham that he and her cousin were having an affair and he wanted a divorce. Her cousin Renée Rodriguez had moved into the Gresham home and was keeping house for the family while she was away. Davidman intended to try to save the marriage, but she agreed to a divorce after a violent encounter with Gresham, who had resumed drinking. He married Rodriguez when the divorce became final in August 1954.[20][21]
Confessing to be a "complete Anglomaniac", Davidman returned to England with her sons in November 1953.[22] Cynthia Haven speculates that the activities of HUAC might have been a factor in her decision to emigrate and not return, given her political affiliations in the past.[23] Davidman found a flat in London and enrolled David and Douglas at Dane Court Preparatory School,[24] but she soon ran into financial difficulties when Gresham quit sending money for support. Lewis paid the school fees and found Davidman and her sons a house in Oxford close to The Kilns.[25] Lewis originally regarded her only as an agreeable intellectual companion and personal friend. Warren Lewis wrote: "For Jack the attraction was at first undoubtedly intellectual. Joy was the only woman whom he had met... who had a brain which matched his own in suppleness, in width of interest, and in analytical grasp, and above all in humour and a sense of fun."[4]
Presenting temptation in the form of beautiful, scantily clad women in front of 16 year old males is an outstanding tool to lead them into all kinds of trouble.Does your mum know what you are doing right now? Don't worry. It isn't a sin*, won't make you go blind, and may even prevent prostate cancer when you grow up.
*Whatever the perverts tell you, Onan was punished for refusing to impregnate his sister in law, not for playing with himself. RTM.
Presenting temptation in the form of beautiful, scantily clad women in front of 16 year old males is an outstanding tool to lead them into all kinds of trouble.Does your mum know what you are doing right now? Don't worry. It isn't a sin*, won't make you go blind, and may even prevent prostate cancer when you grow up.
*Whatever the perverts tell you, Onan was punished for refusing to impregnate his sister in law, not for playing with himself. RTM.
She was my daughter and my mother, my pupil and my teacher, my subject and my sovereign; and always, holding all these in solution, my trusty comrade, friend, shipmate, fellow-soldier. My mistress; but at the same time all that any man friend (and I have good ones) has ever been to me. Perhaps more. – C. S. Lewis[26]
Lewis began to ask for Davidman's opinion and criticism when he was writing and she served as the inspiration for Orual, the central character in Till We Have Faces (1956).[27] Other works that she influenced or helped with include Reflections on the Psalms (1958) and The Four Loves (1960).[28] Davidman's book Smoke on the Mountain: An Interpretation of the Ten Commandments was published in 1955 in England with a preface by C. S. Lewis. It sold 3,000 copies, double that of US sales.[29]
In 1956, Davidman's visitor's visa was not renewed by the Home Office, requiring that she and her sons return to America. Lewis agreed to enter into a civil marriage contract with her so that she could continue to live in the UK, telling a friend that "the marriage was a pure matter of friendship and expediency". The civil marriage took place at the register office, 42 St Giles', Oxford, on 23 April 1956.
I am so much smarter than you.Citation needed. No evidence to date.
MOLLY 2004: So, do you believe in God?
RAY: Well, it's a three-letter word—and a powerful meme.
MOLLY 2004: I realize the word and the idea exist. But does it refer to anything that you believe in?
RAY: People mean lots of things by it.
MOLLY 2004: Do you believe in those things?
RAY: It's not possible to believe all these things: God is an all-powerful conscious person looking over us, making
deals, and getting angry quite a bit. Or He—It—is a pervasive life force underlying all beauty and creativity. Or
God created everything and then stepped back....
MOLLY 2004: I understand, but do you believe in any of them?
RAY: I believe that the universe exists.
MOLLY 2004: Now wait a minute, that's not a belief, that's a scientific fact.
RAY: Actually, I don't know for sure' that anything exists other than my own thoughts.
MOLLY 2004: Okay, I understand that this is the philosophy chapter, but you can read scientific papers—thousands of
them—that corroborate the existence of stars and galaxies. So, all those galaxies—we call that the universe.
RAY: Yes, I've heard of that, and I do recall reading some of these papers, but I don't know that those papers really
exist, or that the things they refer to really exist, other than in my thoughts.
MOLLY 2004: So you don't acknowledge the existence of the universe?
RAY: No, I just said that I do believe that it exists, but I'm pointing out that it's a belief That's my personal leap of faith.
MOLLY 2004: All right, but I asked whether you believed in God.
RAY: Again, "God" is a word by which people mean different things. For the sake of your question, we can consider
God to be the universe, and I said that I believe in the existence of the universe.
MOLLY 2004: God is just the universe?
RAY: Just? It's a pretty big thing to apply the word "just" to. If we are to believe what science tells us—and I said that
I do—it's about as big a phenomenon as we could imagine.
MOLLY 2004: Actually, many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes. But I meant that people usually mean something more by the word "God" than "just" the material
world. Some people do associate God with everything that exists, but they still consider God to be conscious. So
you believe in a God that's not conscious?
RAY: The universe is not conscious—yet. But it will be. Strictly speaking, we should say that very little of it is
conscious today. But that will change and soon. I expect that the universe will become sublimely intelligent and
will wake up in Epoch Six. The only belief I am positing here is that the universe exists. If we make that leap of
faith, the expectation that it will wake up is not so much a belief as an informed understanding, based on the
same science that says there is a universe.
MOLLY 2004: Interesting. You know, that's essentially the opposite of the view that there was a conscious creator who got everything started and then kind of bowed out. You're basically saying that a conscious universe will "bow
in" during Epoch Six.
RAY: Yes, that's the essence of Epoch Six.
a six-month stay in Hollywood writing movie scripts. She wrote at least four, but they were not used and she returned to New York City to work for The New Masses where she wrote a controversial movie column, reviewing Hollywood movies in a manner described as "merciless in her criticisms."Well, they say all the best critics are failed scriptwriters or actors.
the expectation that it will wake up is not so much a belief as an informed understanding, based on the same science that says there is a universe.What science is that? Many who are not scientists believe there is a universe. What does "wake up" mean?
I am so much smarter than you.
200 years after what, Al? Since you don't know and because you run away when asked, you really don't have any reason to expect I will interact with you.
Are you serious? If so, why do you read a book you are so opposed to?I'm not opposed to it, only to idiotic misinterpretations and cynical misrepresentations of it. The King James version contains some of the best English ever written. Just like Shakespeare, the historical sequence is believable if a bit "curated" (to be polite) but I wouldn't base my life on Revelations or a Midsummer Night's Dream, and it's full of useful quotations.
What does "wake up" mean?Gain, or regain consciousness.
Are you serious? If so, why do you read a book you are so opposed to?I'm not opposed to it, only to idiotic misinterpretations and cynical misrepresentations of it. The King James version contains some of the best English ever written. Just like Shakespeare, the historical sequence is believable if a bit "curated" (to be polite) but I wouldn't base my life on Revelations or a Midsummer Night's Dream, and it's full of useful quotations.
Okay. Now I am intrigued. Give me a few examples, including some useful quotations.
They don't know when the N.T. was writtenYes we do.
I am so much smarter than you.
To summarize, over the last little while, opponents of GOD have added nothing to prove their case.Nor, of course, have you. You have't even met the criteria for evidence., never mind proof.
Do you realise that your post is not actually, in any way, related to the text you quoted?Are you serious? If so, why do you read a book you are so opposed to?I'm not opposed to it, only to idiotic misinterpretations and cynical misrepresentations of it. The King James version contains some of the best English ever written. Just like Shakespeare, the historical sequence is believable if a bit "curated" (to be polite) but I wouldn't base my life on Revelations or a Midsummer Night's Dream, and it's full of useful quotations.
Okay. Now I am intrigued. Give me a few examples, including some useful quotations.
Have you seen Usain Bolt race? He can't compete with Sweet Old Al. No one in history can approach his escape velocity. Defies standard physics models.
That is 36 fold, is it? That equates to a 97 % effective single mask. Here is a reference.No.
Are you going to admit that both you (and the USA and UK) are wrong?So, what did I say about masks that was wrong?
Looking at John Hopkins site we have 2,499,000 cases and 171,000 which is 2.8 % for the world. The US is 788,000 cases and 42,000 deaths (nearest 1,000) which is 5.3 %. You were saying that the figure is less that 1%.42000 deaths out of 300,000,000 people
Okay. Now I am intrigued. Give me a few examples, including some useful quotations.The plots of Shakespeare's historical plays stick fairly close to the generally accepted lineage and accomplishments of kings and queens, and whilst Caesar's assassination and the battle of Agincourt were probably a lot messier and less theatrical, they certainly happened. You will probably have read or seen Romeo and Juliet more than once, and as my English teacher said "It's just a load of quotations" so I won't bother to repeat them here.
In other words, person A speaks and the viral load is reduced 6 fold. Person B breathes in and there is a further 6 fold reduction.Probably not. Almost any mask will reduce the velocity and hence spread of exhaled droplets, which is why we wear surgical masks in operating theaters, but you need a fully fitted HEPA filter to significantly reduce inhalation of aerosols. Even if your surgical or cloth mask is saturated, it slows down the exhalate, but a saturated cloth mask is a very efficient source of inhaled bugs, HEPA less so.
many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes.Really? The multiverse is surely a mathematical tool for prediction, not a physical entity.
many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes.Really? The multiverse is surely a mathematical tool for prediction, not a physical entity.
In other words, person A speaks and the viral load is reduced 6 fold. Person B breathes in and there is a further 6 fold reduction.Probably not. Almost any mask will reduce the velocity and hence spread of exhaled droplets, which is why we wear surgical masks in operating theaters, but you need a fully fitted HEPA filter to significantly reduce inhalation of aerosols. Even if your surgical or cloth mask is saturated, it slows down the exhalate, but a saturated cloth mask is a very efficient source of inhaled bugs, HEPA less so.
You will probably have read or seen Romeo and Juliet more than once, and as my English teacher said "It's just a load of quotations" so I won't bother to repeat them here.I thought the honour of being the play made entirely of quotes was Macbeth.
Art thou forger, knave or wit?Wit.
Art thou forger, knave or wit?Wit.
Wannabe Wit, methinks.You are on record as thinking a lot of things that are wrong.
The word many doesn't necessarily mean most. But based on the title of the video below, they do seem to believe that multiverse might be a physical entity, even though we don't have the evidence yet.many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes.Really? The multiverse is surely a mathematical tool for prediction, not a physical entity.
The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.Science has not been discredited.
So, what did I say about masks that was wrong?
(please remember that the world has moved on in the meantime)
The word many doesn't necessarily mean most. But based on the title of the video below, they do seem to believe that multiverse might be a physical entity, even though we don't have the evidence yet.many physicists now consider our universe to be just one bubble among a vast number of other universes.Really? The multiverse is surely a mathematical tool for prediction, not a physical entity.
(video)
The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.Science has not been discredited.
The power of prayer has.
Trials start today in the UK on a vaccine. The work was coordinated and assisted by the WHO.
Try being less obviously wrong.
And it seems you forgot to answer this.So, what did I say about masks that was wrong?
(please remember that the world has moved on in the meantime)
I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.Good idea, because you know you haven't got any actual examples.
Assume for 1 second that multiverses exist. What caused them to exist? Why the Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG of course.
There is one reason for wanting to believe (and I mean believe in every sense of the word) inmultiversesGod. It is to avoid having to deal with what causedthe Big BangGod. It is another turtle in the infinite stack of turtles that the universe sits on. It just pushes back having to deal with the Prime Cause of what caused EVERYTHING! So far back that people forget it requires an answer.
You seem not to have realised that you are argiung against yourself.Not sure what you expect from a self confessed disciple of the devil. Thing that surprises me is that @duffyd appears to see him as a fellow traveller.
Watch the documentary "Pandemic" which came out on Netflix on November 2019.Is it any good?
I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.
Science can't refute the claims Christ madeExactly hat claims did Christ make?
Science cringes before HIM.No.
It has no idea what to make of the things which HE saidVery few of the things He's meant to have said are anything to do with science.
No human being talked like HE did.Nobody actually knows how He talked.
He is totally original,No, as I said, others taught much the same things, but much earlier. He's almost entirely derivative.
There are no parallels.Apart from all the other "prophets" of the time.
No one has ever written any fiction that describes a Character like JESUS.Well, apart from all the other similar figures in many religions.
Except CS Lewis. He came closer than anyone to painting a picture of HIS true likeness than anyone. His Narnia series delighted children and adults alikeSo, the best representation of Christ is a kids story.
The profile of the Head Of Christ by Rembrandt ain't too shabby, 1655, eitherHow would you know?
Not yet, but he may face eternal torture for making false claims, and for divination.I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.
U R ON FIRE,
Way to go.You seem to think the "way to go" involves not actually paying attention to reality.
The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.
I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.
The Great CDC and the WHO have had their "science" and their "scientists" discredited.
I will let those who read the posts decide for themselves on this post of yours.
Gary R. HabermasMarch 31, 2013
“What? Are you serious? Who’d believe this in our modern world? You’d have to think the Gospels are inspired by God or something like that, and they’re a bunch of myths!”
To the contrary, I will assume nothing special about the New Testament writings whatsoever. I will use only the historical information that is accepted as historical by virtually all scholars who have studied this material today-no matter how skeptical or liberal they are. That means, for example, that I will only cite New Testament passages, ones that pass the customary skeptical standards and are recognized as such. Using only these “minimal facts,” I will still maintain that Jesus’ resurrection is the most likely explanation for what we know.
As a preface to this discussion, scholars very rarely question whether Jesus died due to the practice of crucifixion. In dozens of medical studies, the majority view is that asphyxiation plays the major role here. You don’t have to be a physician. Just know how to nail or tie someone to a structure, with their weight pulling down on their outstretched arms. Further, in ancient records, they broke ankles (to induce asphyxiation), crushed skulls, or stabbed chests simply in order to insure death. A person who was just crucified was hardly capable of convincing his witnesses that he was the risen Savior! In their wounded and sickly condition, they might be alive, but no one would declare them raised in a wonderful new body!
Smarter, better formed questions would challenge why people would doubt the N.T. Especially with all the credible information we have today that substantiates its many factual accounts.
Smarter, better formed questions would challenge why people would doubt the N.T. Especially with all the credible information we have today that substantiates its many factual accounts.
There's little point in doubting the historical aspects of the New Testament. Confused, but fairly consistent with what we know of the period from other sources. It's the latterday garbage that christians hang onto it that is so absurd, along with Revelations. And it is worth remembering that the Triune Deity was invented by the Council of Nicea in AD325 - a typical "committee horse" that looks like a deformed camel.
There's little point in doubting the historical aspects of the New Testament. Confused, but fairly consistent with what we know of the period from other sources. It's the latterday garbage that christians hang onto it that is so absurd, along with Revelations. And it is worth remembering that the Triune Deity was invented by the Council of Nicea in AD325 - a typical "committee horse" that looks like a deformed camel.
Al's humor is a little out there. The N.T. was written 200 years after when, Al? Note his urgency to imitate Usain Bolt.
Assume for 1 second that multiverses exist. What caused them to exist? Why the Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG of course.
Assume for 1 second thatmultiversesthe Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG exists. What caused them to exist?
Watch the documentary "Pandemic" which came out on Netflix on November 2019.Is it any good?
Science accepts the concept of a Prime Cause. An Infinite Intelligence as a Prime Cause is far more simple (hence Occam) than a sudden appearance of dumb matter and energy which has just the right properties for intelligence to emerge. You still have not addressed this issue.
It makes no sense scientifically to assume that GOD does not exist. WHEN WE LOOK FOR ANSWERS TO SERIOUS QUESTIONS that impact all of us, we don't chuck any reasonable hypothesis w/o strong, intelligent justification.Assume for 1 second that multiverses exist. What caused them to exist? Why the Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG of course.
Assume for 1 second thatmultiversesthe Infinite Intelligence hypothesized by CliveG exists. What caused them to exist?
Science accepts the concept of a Prime Cause. An Infinite Intelligence as a Prime Cause is far more simple (hence Occam) than a sudden appearance of dumb matter and energy which has just the right properties for intelligence to emerge. You still have not addressed this issue.
Science accepts the concept of a Prime Cause.Really? Where have you been for the last 100 years?
The N.T. was written 200 years after when, Al? Note his urgency to imitate Usain Bolt.
The N.T. was written 200 years after when, Al? Note his urgency to imitate Usain Bolt.
Sorry, the current content dates from 325 years AD, which as everyone in law and business knows is the system that assigns dates from the presumed conception of Jesus.
I'd be perfectly happy to imitate Mr Bolt, but anno domini has taken its toll of my knees. I'm flattered, nonetheless..
It is worth bearing in mind that I have been correct 100% of the time predicting Al would not respond to my questions challenging his assertions about the N.T.You asked a question, directed at Alan. I answered it.
we don't chuck any reasonable hypothesis w/o strong, intelligent justification.LOL
A person who was just crucified was hardly capable of convincing his witnesses that he was the risen Savior! In their wounded and sickly condition, they might be alive, but no one would declare them raised in a wonderful new body!They would see what they wanted to see.
No, not 200 years as you said or 300. Not even close, as you know.You really ought to study the history and authorship of the New Testament. It's interesting to those of serious mind. Drivel and bluster are the stock in trade of inept preachers. The minutes of the Council of Nicea and the King James committee are fact.
No, not 200 years as you said or 300. Not even close, as you know.You really ought to study the history and authorship of the New Testament. It's interesting to those of serious mind. Drivel and bluster are the stock in trade of inept preachers. The minutes of the Council of Nicea and the King James committee are fact.
There is a detail here that confuses me.A person who was just crucified was hardly capable of convincing his witnesses that he was the risen Savior! In their wounded and sickly condition, they might be alive, but no one would declare them raised in a wonderful new body!They would see what they wanted to see.
And, let's face it "alive" would be seen as a miracle. Who would have cared about details?
It's just Duffy ignoring even his own evidence, don't worry about it. facts are so passe in his world.There is a detail here that confuses me.A person who was just crucified was hardly capable of convincing his witnesses that he was the risen Savior! In their wounded and sickly condition, they might be alive, but no one would declare them raised in a wonderful new body!They would see what they wanted to see.
And, let's face it "alive" would be seen as a miracle. Who would have cared about details?
According to the bible there was no “wonderful new body”, if there was Thomas could not have been invited to place his hands in the wounds.
Not to change the subject, butThen don't.
Science accepts the concept of a Prime Cause.Really? Where have you been for the last 100 years?
This article has further shrunk scientific gaps for gods to hide in.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/lifes-first-molecule-was-protein-not-rna-new-model-suggests-20171102/
It reinforces the need for an Intelligent Designer.You can't "reinforce" something that's not there.
You may be right that science has changed its stance on this one, and now ignores the "need" for a Prime Cause.Not at all.
That avoids having to deal with it as a religious argument.
1225 was the time of the first proposal of a Big Bang. Do you see what insights religious people can have into the nature of the universe?Yes, just as soon as they stop searching in a dusty old book, and start doing science.
What gave the molecules their emergent property of being able to form such complex units?
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/6/1915
Electrohypersensitivity as a Newly Identified and Characterized Neurologic Pathological Disorder: How to Diagnose, Treat, and Prevent It
So, IARC can't prove a negative, and WHO have been asked [ by a bunch of nutters] to classify something.
Did you think you had a point?
What gave the molecules their emergent property of being able to form such complex units?Schrodinger.
1225 was the time of the first proposal of a Big Bang. Do you see what insights religious people can have into the nature of the universe?Yes indeed. Grosseteste described the geocentric universe that pretty well everyone else wrongly assumed. Religious folk burned Bruno and forced Galileo to recant for telling the truth. Insights my arse. More like a holy sigmascope.
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/6/1915
Electrohypersensitivity as a Newly Identified and Characterized Neurologic Pathological Disorder: How to Diagnose, Treat, and Prevent It
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI#Controversies
What gave the molecules their emergent property of being able to form such complex units?Schrodinger.
So, IARC can't prove a negative, and WHO have been asked to classify something.
Did you think you had a point?
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/21/6/1915
Electrohypersensitivity as a Newly Identified and Characterized Neurologic Pathological Disorder: How to Diagnose, Treat, and Prevent It
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI#Controversies
1225 was the time of the first proposal of a Big Bang. Do you see what insights religious people can have into the nature of the universe?Yes indeed. Grosseteste described the geocentric universe that pretty well everyone else wrongly assumed. Religious folk burned Bruno and forced Galileo to recant for telling the truth. Insights my arse. More like a holy sigmascope.
The term Big Bang was first proposed as an insult, by Fred Hoyle, one of the great atheists of the Sixties. Funny how it has been appropriated by the religiosi. I have no idea of the religious proclivities of Penzias and Wilson, but they didn't find evidence consistent with a Big Bang through prayer, more through persistent disbelief.
Please take issue with specifics in the articles.It does not matter what the specifics of the articles say.
It does indicate that I am not some lone wacko.It is true; we never have a wacko shortage.
Now, when was the N.T. written? No. It wasn't in the 200s or the 300s or the 900s or the 12 billions.Instead of messing about telling us when it wasn't written, why not nail your colours to the mast and tell us when you think it was written?
It is a jungle out there - and main stream media are clearly seen to have bias and opinion. Choose which one you want. CNN or Fox News for example. "......"...........Clive, this series of posts appear to be off topic, can we bring the thread back to the main question rather than running 2 threads.
tell us who JESUS CHRIST was/is--besides being a nice guy who got whacked by the Romans. Or, is that the best you've got?It's what your bible says, and I have no reason to doubt it. But this argument belongs in a different thread.
Then they have redefined the word god. Many cultures don't consider their gods as the most important things in their lives.One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.
Define what your god is?
Actually anything can become a God to a person. It's what they value most or consider most important what they worship in ignorance or awareness.Quotenoun
1.
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.
It is a jungle out there - and main stream media are clearly seen to have bias and opinion. Choose which one you want. CNN or Fox News for example. "......"...........Clive, this series of posts appear to be off topic, can we bring the thread back to the main question rather than running 2 threads.
Thanks
If I am right that God is giving me this information and it turns out to be accurate, then it is a boost towards "proving" (a higher probability) the existence of God.The problem is that it does not offer scientific proof. The only way you can do show accurate prior information is by being subject to rigorous double blind testing as explained previously. Even then it would not prove the source.
I appreciate being allowed to document on the site.You have consistently failed to do that when asked.
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.
To an extent we tried to do that hereIf I am right that God is giving me this information and it turns out to be accurate, then it is a boost towards "proving" (a higher probability) the existence of God.The problem is that it does not offer scientific proof. The only way you can do show accurate prior information is by being subject to rigorous double blind testing as explained previously. Even then it would not prove the source.
This is the whole problem with this thread, no one has approached the question of how you rigorously test and demonstrate the existence of God or any god. Using personal, after the fact, recollection is not a scientific method and offers no scientific credence to the experience which could be due to a number of causes including selective bias. This is also the problem with all personal testimonies.
Overall, I’m quite disappointed that this God sent opportunity has been studiously avoided. @hamdani yusuf did attempt to lay in some guidelines but it was ignored. The question remains, how would you go about it, what tests or experiments would offer incontrovertible proof? How would you falsify the theory of the existence of God?
Probably.What gave the molecules their emergent property of being able to form such complex units?Schrodinger.
Is he dead or alive?
There is no redefinition. From the day God gave Moses the 10 commandmentsWas it OK to have other Gods before Moses receive 10 commandments?
'You shall have no other Gods on my face".
Jews have always understood anything can become a God to a person.
So back to the question. All we need is a definition of God as the thing which uniquely and predictably does X when Y. Then we do Y and see if X happens.One thing which would spoil this would be if the definition of God included a clause which meant that any attempt to establish if X happens is forbidden by God.
That's science - or at least the beginning of science. We must continue by looking for instances of X occurring spontaneously or in response to Z, or not responding to Y. This will lead to either a redefinition of God as one possible explanation of X, or not being consistent with the definition.
It's the same logic that allows us to prove the existence of everything from a neutrino to an elephant.
So it's up to the proponents of the God hypothesis to specify X and Y.
Why hasn't science been able to prove the existence of God?One reasonable possibility is that He doesn't exist.
Also, because religion cheats.
https://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/6-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/4-7.htm
Which makes prayer inadmissible at worst, and irrelevant at best.It always was.
If I am right that God is giving me this information and it turns out to be accurate, then it is a boost towards "proving" (a higher probability) the existence of God.The problem is that it does not offer scientific proof. The only way you can do show accurate prior information is by being subject to rigorous double blind testing as explained previously. Even then it would not prove the source.
This is the whole problem with this thread, no one has approached the question of how you rigorously test and demonstrate the existence of God or any god. Using personal, after the fact, recollection is not a scientific method and offers no scientific credence to the experience which could be due to a number of causes including selective bias. This is also the problem with all personal testimonies.
Overall, I’m quite disappointed that this God sent opportunity has been studiously avoided. @hamdani yusuf did attempt to lay in some guidelines but it was ignored. The question remains, how would you go about it, what tests or experiments would offer incontrovertible proof? How would you falsify the theory of the existence of God?
Probably.What gave the molecules their emergent property of being able to form such complex units?Schrodinger.
Is he dead or alive?
So back to the question. All we need is a definition of God as the thing which uniquely and predictably does X when Y. Then we do Y and see if X happens.
That's science - or at least the beginning of science. We must continue by looking for instances of X occurring spontaneously or in response to Z, or not responding to Y. This will lead to either a redefinition of God as one possible explanation of X, or not being consistent with the definition.
It's the same logic that allows us to prove the existence of everything from a neutrino to an elephant.
So it's up to the proponents of the God hypothesis to specify X and Y.
I have no reason to doubt that he existed. As I said much earlier, he was a radical rabbi (addressed by his friends as such) who was killed for causing trouble. Nothing unusual about that, nor was the radical Judaism he preached beyond the very broad span of our ancient traditions.
Good football coaches teach something they refer to as "staying on your block" which simply means, keep driving your legs and keep jamming your body with full force into the defender until the Ref blows his whistle. The phrase is just a reminder, a term that stresses the importance to persist, to keep going all out, and not let anything, anything, no matter what, direct your efforts away from that single minded goal.
To wit, I have asked alan and his like-minded teammates to answer my questions which derive from the numerous and outrageous errors they make continuously. I am in no hurry. We have a long time before that whistle blows.
Be aware, and if you are intelligent and a good dude/dudess, you can't miss it: Our intellectual superheroes don't participate in these debates as though they have any confidence in the positions they hold.
Again, my friend, what do you mean he was a radical rabbi? Where did you get that idea? You say his buds said that about him. What did they say? specifically, do you really know? (I don't think you do.)
Where is this text from?QuoteAgain, what radical form of Judaism did Jesus preach?
Karaitism.Quote"Nothing unusual about that,
Maybe not to another karaite.
But to the rabbinical groups like the pharisees of the time it was extremely radical.Quotenor was the radical Judaism he preached beyond the very broad span of our ancient traditions."
Completely incorrect. Jesus in Mark 7 utterly spoke against the these traditions. These takanot.
Matthew 15.QuoteWhat are you saying? Give several examples from his preaching. I don't believe you know.
Just did.QuoteHe preached HE HIMSELF was GOD ALMIGHTY
Show one place Jesus ever said that?
Just one...
In a word, bullshit.QuoteWhen I was 16, I immersed myself in Jewish mysticism, called Kabbalah. That was where I first came across a religious text that justified my existence.In a 16th Century study of human souls called The Door of Reincarnation, I read: "At times, a male will reincarnate in the body of a female, and a female will be in a male body."It gave me hope that maybe I wasn't crazy.This is an example of what I just wrote about. How does science explain this?
Is an epidemiological study accepted as proof?No. It is evidence of correspondence but not necessarily proof of causation.
Why are you playing games?We aren.
What's the point? IAnswering questions.
If you have already decided GOD doesn't exist, why bother asking the same questions?There is nothing in the post you quoted which implies in any way that the poster has assumed that God does not exist.
why do you change the subject and return to past topicsBecause people drag things off topic.
to ask more questions that have already been answered?The question has not been answered.
But, if you don't want answers, why keep asking the same kinds of questions repeatedly?To get answers
But, if you don't want answers, why keep asking the same kinds of questions repeatedly?We do want answers.
You already have the answers.No we don't.
What is your point?Trying to get you to answer a question.
Control? I think so based on your documented history on this issue.There is no documentation of a control issue.
You bounce around, shifting from this to that to that and then this,Get a mirror.
asking more questions until you recognize the answers you've received are more than you can handle.Nobody has provided an answer of any sort.
Is there some satisfaction in "controlling" Christians you get?That's absurd.
You have said you despise us.That's just not true.
The evidence is abundant and crystal clear that you do.No. There really is no evidence for the idea.
That's fine. You should hate us.Hard luck; we don't.
It is fulfilment of HIS promise to us. A prophecy proven true over and over. (Science)It's not true.
If you have been seeking answers with an unfeigned spirit of genuine interest,We are.
You don't need any more information.Yes we do. Because you have not provided any relevant information.
. Based on that fact, it certainly appears you have other motivations for making observations and asking questions.It's not a fact that you have based it on; it's made up stuff.
But, the topic is, "can science prove GOD exists", not, "see if you humiliate people you despise by playing games with them."We know.
Bear in mind that you don't really know very much about this topic. You may think you do, but you don't, if we are to go by your statements.The topic is about scientific proof of God.
You've been shown many times to be incorrectWhere?
, but you flee that particular aspect of the topic and raise more questions, like it is a game, like it is fun.No.
It is all scientifically proven.No. It is not.
That will still not change my belief that the supernatural exists. I have had too many experiences indicating the existence of the supernatural.
Epidemiology shows that the people who have taken the most breaths are most likely to die, but it doesn't suggest that breathing is dangerous. big alPeople who have taken more breaths are more likely to die today or in the next week or in the next year, or whatever.
everyone who breathes is just as likely to die as everyone else
Why are you playing games?We aren.
We are trying to do science-- this is, after all, a science page.
If you don't like it, the door is over there.What's the point? IAnswering questions.
That's the point of science; finding stuff out.If you have already decided GOD doesn't exist, why bother asking the same questions?There is nothing in the post you quoted which implies in any way that the poster has assumed that God does not exist.
If anything, if you ascribe properties to a God, you tacitly imply that He alt least may exist.
Why pretend that it makes the assumption there's no God?why do you change the subject and return to past topicsBecause people drag things off topic.to ask more questions that have already been answered?The question has not been answered.
You have pretended that it has been- but that's because you either lie about it, or you don't know what proof is.But, if you don't want answers, why keep asking the same kinds of questions repeatedly?To get answersBut, if you don't want answers, why keep asking the same kinds of questions repeatedly?We do want answers.
Please provide some.You already have the answers.No we don't.
That's why we keep asking.
If you think we have the answer please point out where that answer is
What is the action X?What is your point?Trying to get you to answer a question.Control? I think so based on your documented history on this issue.There is no documentation of a control issue.
There is also no answer to the question.
Your statement makes no sense.You bounce around, shifting from this to that to that and then this,Get a mirror.
You are the one introducing new random attempts at distraction.asking more questions until you recognize the answers you've received are more than you can handle.Nobody has provided an answer of any sort.Is there some satisfaction in "controlling" Christians you get?That's absurd.
There's no suggestion of "control" here.
You are deluding yourself.
After all, we can't stop you simply walking away.
How could we be trying to control you?You have said you despise us.That's just not true.
I chalenge you to show where anyone said it.The evidence is abundant and crystal clear that you do.No. There really is no evidence for the idea.
Please show us what you think is evidence of that.That's fine. You should hate us.Hard luck; we don't.It is fulfilment of HIS promise to us. A prophecy proven true over and over. (Science)It's not true.
You seem to have put the word "science" in there randomly.If you have been seeking answers with an unfeigned spirit of genuine interest,We are.
Please let us know what the action X is.You don't need any more information.Yes we do. Because you have not provided any relevant information.. Based on that fact, it certainly appears you have other motivations for making observations and asking questions.It's not a fact that you have based it on; it's made up stuff.But, the topic is, "can science prove GOD exists", not, "see if you humiliate people you despise by playing games with them."We know.Bear in mind that you don't really know very much about this topic. You may think you do, but you don't, if we are to go by your statements.The topic is about scientific proof of God.
We know a lot about science, and you have provided none.
The evidence shows that it is you who knows little about the topic; not us.You've been shown many times to be incorrectWhere?
You keep saying that, I keep asking where.
You keep not answering., but you flee that particular aspect of the topic and raise more questions, like it is a game, like it is fun.No.
In the real world it is always you who refuses to answer questions and points.
Notably, you refuse to show where we were actually wrong- even though I have asked.
And I think it is fair to assume that you will ignore all the questions I have asked here.It is all scientifically proven.No. It is not.
If you disagree, just show us the proof.
everyone who breathes is just as likely to die as everyone elseAt last, a scientific fact. Keep up the good work, Duffy.
Let us see how bad this pandemic (and those that might follow) gets and whether society becomes much more spiritual and accepts the hypothesis I have put forward. A period of about five years should do it. It life does not change very much, then I guess I have to accept that I was mistaken about the information given to me.Why not let us try to minimize the damages caused by this pandemic?
That will still not change my belief that the supernatural exists. I have had too many experiences indicating the existence of the supernatural.What would it take to convince you that your experiences were actually natural phenomena which are explainable for those who have complete information related to them?
BTW, very, very few people believe this is it, that we don't live on past our death.Do you believe that you already lived before you were born?
Yep, he got something right.everyone who breathes is just as likely to die as everyone elseAt last, a scientific fact. Keep up the good work, Duffy.
GG: Naked 4.28.2020 6pm
Duffyd says:BTW, very, very few people believe this is it, that we don't live on past our death.
GG: There are quite a lot of people who do not believe we live on past our death. However the majority of people in the world today do believe such things. Christians have heaven and hell. So do the Moslem. Hindus believe in reincarnation. When we go back to ancient Egypt we have the sun God and the pharaohs had elaborate surroundings for themselves. Often they would seal living slaves in their tombs so they would have faithful servants in the world to come. The Jews though that God at the end of days would resurrect their bones. The Nazis made this difficult since all cremated bones were mixed together.
What value is there in living beyond the grave? Life is a mixture of positive and negative. It is mostly a net zero for most of us. For many it is definitely a negative. The concept of heaven and hell is horrible. Only a monster God would give eternal joy to some at the expense of eternal pain to many others.
Assuming we have a just God, then everyone would achieve the same thing. The worst of man would perish and the best of man would perish as well. So the self must be gone in either case. The worst of man perishes into nothingness while the best of man perishes into God. When an individual is absorbed by a just God along with millions of others, the net result is a collective consciousness with no memory of the individual. Thus in death we do live on for a few minutes and then are gone forever.
Let us see how bad this pandemic (and those that might follow) gets and whether society becomes much more spiritual and accepts the hypothesis I have put forward. A period of about five years should do it. It life does not change very much, then I guess I have to accept that I was mistaken about the information given to me.Why not let us try to minimize the damages caused by this pandemic?
Many countries have tried different methods to do so. We'll see which methods work best. As far as I know, no country exclusively relies on supernatural power to do the job.That will still not change my belief that the supernatural exists. I have had too many experiences indicating the existence of the supernatural.What would it take to convince you that your experiences were actually natural phenomena which are explainable for those who have complete information related to them?
Everything that happens is by definition natural, but some natural phenomena are not explained to our satisfaction.
It is a jungle out there - and main stream media are clearly seen to have bias and opinion. Choose which one you want. CNN or Fox News for example. "......"...........Clive, this series of posts appear to be off topic, can we bring the thread back to the main question rather than running 2 threads.
Thanks
I will take some care. Thanks for the civil prompt.
Why do we have a word such as "supernatural"?Like god, it's a catchall for anything you don't understand and can't be bothered to investigate. See also "consciousness".
Why do we have a word such as "supernatural"?Like god, it's a catchall for anything you don't understand and can't be bothered to investigate. See also "consciousness".
It is a jungle out there - and main stream media are clearly seen to have bias and opinion. Choose which one you want. CNN or Fox News for example. "......"...........Clive, this series of posts appear to be off topic, can we bring the thread back to the main question rather than running 2 threads.
Thanks
I will take some care. Thanks for the civil prompt.
I think you should be taking more care.
Incidentally, re
"Can one say that cell phone usage leads to higher corona virus deaths?"
No, of course not.
That's just silly.
That is a hope of some. Others hope for termination. I studied reincarnation and cosmic reincarnation for quite a long time. It is man’s dreams. Yet it is not God’s dreams.
You are redefining words to eliminate the possibility of God.How can one debate when the goalposts keep moving?I think you have neatly defined God as the ultimate moving goalpost!
That is a hope of some. Others hope for termination. I studied reincarnation and cosmic reincarnation for quite a long time. It is man’s dreams. Yet it is not God’s dreams.
For most of my life I have assumed that when I die I will cease to exist, except for a while in the memory of some. My experiences tell me that there is likely to be life after death and that we reincarnate. I did not get the belief out of hope that I will not cease to exist.
A lot of people fear death and also fear the nothingness that might come, and I accept that some might believe in a soul because it offers hope. I have lived with the belief of simple termination for so long that it does not bother me that I might be wrong..
A simple rational reason for reincarnation is that the afterlife would be so full of souls it could not cope. When one goes back to man's origin as a single cell then the number of single celled souls would be even more mind-boggling. If one argues that only modern man (after Neanderthal man) has a soul then one has to ask why? What was the defining point? You should also realize that the concept of life after death has been with humankind for a very long time - probably even with the Neanderthals.
A simple rational reason for reincarnation is that the afterlife would be so full of souls it could not cope. When one goes back to man's origin as a single cell then the number of single celled souls would be even more mind-boggling. If one argues that only modern man (after Neanderthal man) has a soul then one has to ask why?
I stand corrected. Since I do take care, I will take MORE care.That is not taking more care to stay on topic, is it?
Assuming the link between obesity and cell phone usage is true, explain why my reasoning is faulty as to the possibility.
"Can one say that cell phone usage leads to higher corona virus deaths?"And what you are now saying is
Obesity cannot occur without prosperity.A reasonably large fraction of the US population might be seen as counter- examples.
The soul is an image of this universe in the fifth dimension.This is a science site.
The quantum physicists have already measured interactions greater than 10,000CoTen thousand cobalt does not mean anything.
GG: The quantum physicists have already measured interactions greater than 10,000Co. Thus there is another dimension which operates at a speed much greater than our light speed. this is the fifth dimension.Please quote paper on this. I haven’t seen anything indicating the markers have been found.
There are very few obese people in East Africa. Prosperity means at least having enough food.Obesity cannot occur without prosperity.A reasonably large fraction of the US population might be seen as counter- examples.
It's still off topic.
You are redefining words to eliminate the possibility of God.How can one debate when the goalposts keep moving?I think you have neatly defined God as the ultimate moving goalpost!
Reincarnation theory is pure vanity. All we get is five minutes our time before we are collectivized. Then we are gone forever. Like it or not we serve God and not the other way around. All we offer God is our love and intelligence. God loves man and not the individual. God will protect those who serve God best.
Only God can magically move real goalposts in defiance to the laws of physics.Well, if He actually did that, we would have evidence of His existence.
Perhaps. Only God can magically move real goalposts in defiance to the laws of physics.This doesn't explain David Beckham's record of World Cup penalty shots. He's very devout, but the Lord seems not to respond. Jonny Wilkinson, on the other hand, seemed not to rely on his faith and simply kicked the ball in the direction anyone else would have chosen, and won. So I think we can dismiss the hypothesis.
Only God can magically move real goalposts in defiance to the laws of physics.Well, if He actually did that, we would have evidence of His existence.
But... He doesn't
God said “Put a heating pad on your chest”.No he didn't. God speaks Arabic, not English, and does not talk to infidels. Or maybe Latin, and only speaks to some Catholics.
Shades of 1918! And who saw this coming?Any competent epidemiologist- given that the governments refused to pay for sensible preparations.
God said “Put a heating pad on your chest”. There was one in the closet and I put it own. The heat reduced the intense pain. At the same time I felt the healing radiation from God. I fell asleep and awoke on the road to recovery.Bad news, I'm afraid.
When I had double pneumonia about 30 years ago I reached a point where the pain was so intense that I had to break my silence with God. My agreement was that I would do the work he demanded of me in 1981 and that he would no longer directly speak to me, touch me, or force me into obedience. I felt bad for my family although for myself I would prefer death. God said “Put a heating pad on your chest”. There was one in the closet and I put it own. The heat reduced the intense pain. At the same time I felt the healing radiation from God. I fell asleep and awoke on the road to recovery.
Although God has not given me direct advice, I have been guided to find cures for various ailments that work well.People find out what oks for them.
Essentially and adult can say this:Although God has not given me direct advice, I have been guided to find cures for various ailments that work well.People find out what oks for them.
It's not a theological matter.
Your dedication to the placebo effect, and to avoiding the topic, is noted.Essentially and adult can say this:Although God has not given me direct advice, I have been guided to find cures for various ailments that work well.People find out what oks for them.
It's not a theological matter.
Ordinarily I would agree with you. The cures I found were not main-stream and not even alternative medicine. Finding them was a matter of a series of coincidences, plus some "intuition" that they might work. I did do due diligence and ensure that the "cures" were safe.
Of course, one reason I find cures is that I am very persistent and do not give up easily. You many have noticed that. ;)
God said “Put a heating pad on your chest”.which is exactly what your mum would have said.
There was one in the closetDid God put it there, or your mum?
The spiritual world consists of God and the various Sons of God which exist within the father. The God of Hitler was the German Son of God collective. NO devil for sure but the collective spirit of the German people. The many Sons of God often oppose God but all they have is control over their own people. In the spiritual world they cannot fight among themselves. However they can cause the living people to kill each other. The German Son of God wanted the Jewish God dead and knew that killing all the Jews would destroy the Jewish God. However the Father God wanted the Jews dead as well since the spirit of Futureman consists of the spirits of the innocent dead. Thus the Father God benefited from the Holocaust.I’m not going to ask whether you are truly serious or one step from an asylum; but I will ask if you’ve read ‘American Gods’.
He came to die as part of a plan formed before the universe began. A plan that was a part of God forever. He always was. He always was for the single purpose of dying.So why did He ask why He had forsaken Himself?
It is fascinating to see all the various misinterpretations of his life. People try so hard to figure him out. They keep trying, missing the mark forever.
He didn't die disillusioned. He wasn't expecting God to save him and Israel at the last second, Bart. Before he took off he said the kingdom of heaven is in you. If you believe in me, I Myself through the Spirit will pour out of you. If you believe in me, you will never die.
He came to die as part of a plan formed before the universe began. A plan that was a part of God forever. He always was. He always was for the single purpose of dying.
When you are quite certain you see clearly, you can't see nothing. Blindness is a must if you really want to see. Cohen got it right: Only drowning men can see him. Dylan got it: Have they counted the cost it'll take to bring down all their earthly principles they're gonna have to abandon? That's why people freak when they find him. Can't believe he is what he is. Like waking up from a bad dream that won't end.
Can science prove God exists?
No. Science is about disproof.
Next question, please.
Can science prove God exists?You're wrong but most likely not just wild guessing. Remember, they didn't write the New Testament at the Council of Nicea
No. Science is about disproof.
Next question, please.
Remember, they didn't write the New Testament at the Council of NiceaWell, it exists, it didn't write itself, so someone must have written it.
Who do you think wrote the New Testament?According to this video, it's the same as those who wrote the Old Testament.