Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Cells, Microbes & Viruses => Topic started by: stewgreen on 08/12/2008 13:13:12
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Shouldn't we be drinking dirty water ?
- Here's a question for NS Team or Dr Karl - I know you covered the 10 second rule and said it is bad to eat something that has been dropped on the floor cos it will covered in bacteria, but this is contradicted by a revolutionary lecture I went to at UCL by Professor Graham Rook (UCL Centre for Infectious Diseases & International Health) www.ucl.ac.uk/lhl
Basically his premise was that for 100s of 1000s of years man has evolved to drink dirty water and bacteria forming a large part of the human body, by drinking clean water over the last 2000 years we have not enough bacteria and parasites so people get more inflammation diseases like MS and even some cancers.. ?
- often it's the bodies T cells trying to fight infection and damaging the body in the process.
- Our body are mostly bacteria - so it's important not to react against them. Most are old friends : "helmiths" - if we do react against them we get elephantitis etc.
He said that in a way people with worms and gut infections are more healthy. (It's established that there are more bowel cancers in populations with less worms).
- I meant to ask him - why people is developing countries are supposed to get sick through dirty water ?
Maybe someone could get to the bottom of this.
more blurb from the lecture below
- Tues 28th October 2008 : Lecture : Darwin, Microbes and the Increasing Incidence of Chronic Inflammatory Diseases Professor Graham Rook (UCL Centre for Infectious Diseases & International Health) www.ucl.ac.uk/lhl
- humankind has moved rapidly from the hunter-gatherer environment to the living conditions of the rich industrialised countries. The resulting reduced exposure to certain micro-organisms has led to disordered regulation of the immune system, and contributes to rises in inflammatory diseases including cancers. This concept is an important aspect of darwinian medicine, which uses knowledge of evolution to cast light on human diseases and point to the potential exploitation of these organisms in novel treatments.
keep up the good work
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Basically his premise was that for 100s of 1000s of years man has evolved to drink dirty water and bacteria forming a large part of the human body, by drinking clean water over the last 2000 years we have not enough bacteria and parasites so people get more inflammation diseases like MS and even some cancers.. ?
Notice also that for hundreds of years the average lifespan has gone up dramatically? When mankind started treating water general health improved in leaps and bounds. Just because we may be more likely to develop a better immune response to something if we are constantly exposed to it, doesn't mean we should bombard ourselves with it to develop a resistance when we can just avoid it completely.
Someone who has to fight of 10 carnivorous beasts every day to survive will become excellent at warding them off, but one day they get mauled to death. Another person who sets up a protective measures, ie. fences, barriers etc. may not be as good as fighting the beasts, but will probably live longer.
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Although there is something to be said for microbes protecting us against certain diseases. I can't remember an example, but i remember something about people with worms having a reduced incidence of something or other. Will have to do some research on this one.
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Although there is something to be said for microbes protecting us against certain diseases. I can't remember an example, but i remember something about people with worms having a reduced incidence of something or other. Will have to do some research on this one.
I think it's autoimmune diseases and allergies that may be less prevalent in those with parasites. Can't remember which diseases or which parasites though - so don't rush off to get liver flukes to cure your hayfever!
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Yes, that rings a bell. Maybe I'm thinking of roundworm and asthma?
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Will Hamilton, who worked with the Naked Scientists on an internship while he was a medical student, wrote this series of articles that examine the hygiene hypothesis and the underpinning evidence:
1) What is the hygiene hypothesis, including a glossary of terms (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/features/hygiene-hypothesis-unraveled)
2) Human trials of helminth / worm therapy for the control of intestinal inflammatory disease (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/features/hygiene-hypothesis-part-2-will-whipworm-work)
3) Parasitic worms and effects on the immune system (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/features/hygiene-hypothesis-part-3-are-parasitic-worms-friend-or-foe)
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Last week, while vacationing on a tropical Pacific island, I drank some water that didn't come straight out of a bottle.
I regretted it for the next day or so...
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Last week, while vacationing on a tropical Pacific island, I drank some water that didn't come straight out of a bottle.
I regretted it for the next day or so...
Whoops - that's a no-no on small islands; sewage plants don't exist so what's on-land is frequently contaminated if the human occupancy is high...
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There's the rub. Cave dwellers and their modern nomadic equivalents lived far enough apart, and always close to fresh water, that they didn't have to drink each others' faeces, and by producing one or two offspring every year there was a fair chance that enough would survive to puberty to repopulate the tribe. Encounters with predators and rivals ensured that only the strongest males got to reproduice, and only the healthiest females survived childbirth. Nowadays everyone has a right to live, make babies, and sh1t in the river that everyone else drinks from.
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@alancalverd hit the nail on the head. As ever, it all comes down to the p word - population...
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Although there is something to be said for microbes protecting us against certain diseases. I can't remember an example, but i remember something about people with worms having a reduced incidence of something or other. Will have to do some research on this one.
It's tape worm. Apparently they protect their host from other threats.
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Nice said Madidus_Scientia. Human lifespan did increase by a lot compare to the past.
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In a way, yes, because your immune system gets stimulated - later on this could lead to fewer allergies.
However, the water is severely infected - you're going to get diarrhea and that is bad for your health.
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How dirty is the water supposed to mean? Some bacteria are better than others. It depends. If neutral/good bacteria only, we should drink that. Hygiene hypothesis. If bad bacteria are present, we shouldn't rather drink it. We drink water without bacteria, because we can't "magically" kill only the bad kind of bacteria.
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Call me old fashioned, but I like my water with no cholera or nematodes in it, and any evidence that my water should have that is not going to be believed.
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I think people who drink contaminated water don't get so many cancers is because they don't live so long.