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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  4. Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
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Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.

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Offline GoC

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Re: Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
« Reply #20 on: 29/12/2016 14:10:57 »
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My concept says something else. Particles get elongated along the motion line, in the absolute space. The experiment that confirms that is the slowing down of light when using OAM. Light that has l > 0 can be thought as a new particle. If you accelerate it, l number reduces. If  l = 0 , the speed reaches c. However, electrons have a secondary helix and thus the wavefronts can have more values for speed. Think of it as an  OAM wave that instead of travelling straight, if follows a loop or a helix.  Anyway, the same principle applies, that is, trajectory pattern dictates the speed of the particle.

Anytime you create conditions that do not follow Relativity postulates there is a high probability you are incorrect. What is a particle and what is a photon? These are the questions that need answering before we can claim a physical interpretation of a visual image. Consider light reflection off an object going half the speed of light with an observer in that frame. If the light is in the same direction as the object the reflection is twice the size of the object. If the light source is opposite to the direction of travel the object only reflects 66.6% of the actual size. This has nothing to do with the actual size of the physical object being viewed. Yes the electron moves in a angular screw motion at the speed of light motion. The vector speed is viewed slower than the total motion of c. The photon vector speed is c. The angular motion of the electron jump is the photon packet imprinted on space energy c. Your velocity changes have no real observed changes of vector speed. All spectrum waves travel at the same speed. This is the observed measurement that follows vector geometry as jefferyH claims and relativity predicts. Light being independent of the source means there is no perpendicular view with vector speed. The hypotenuse view is a contracted view unless you are in the vector speed frame where your measuring stick appears longer by reflection. At half the speed of light your measuring stick appears 13.4% longer than at relative rest. This can be shown using plain geometry. Using the Lorentz contraction is a mathematical convenience.

Nilak

How do you get around the fact that all frames measure the same speed of light. Especially since relativity follows geometry vector motion using c as a constant. If c was variable geometry would fail observation.

 
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Offline nilak

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Re: Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
« Reply #21 on: 29/12/2016 14:30:50 »
Quote from: GoC on 29/12/2016 14:10:57

Nilak

How do you get around the fact that all frames measure the same speed of light. Especially since relativity follows geometry vector motion using c as a constant. If c was variable geometry would fail observation.
If you are in a box while travelling at v, the box extends by Lorentz factor (x'=x*gamma).  Your clock will tick slower because particles geometry change and you get t' = t*gamma. Hence c=c'=dx/dt=dx'/dt'. When you measure c using a mirror, you always get c. However the speed difference is c-v while the light ray travells towards the mirror and c+v after it gets reflected back.
This has been confirmed experimentally although people thought c was measured from a third reference frame. There is also a mathematical demonstration availabe for this.
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Offline GoC

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Re: Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
« Reply #22 on: 29/12/2016 15:33:36 »
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If you are in a box while travelling at v, the box extends by Lorentz factor (x'=x*gamma).

The visual image extends but not the physical object in SR.

Quote
When you measure c using a mirror, you always get c. However the speed difference is c-v while the light ray travells towards the mirror and c+v after it gets reflected back.

This would depend on the angle of the mirror to the direction of vector speed. Physically Perpendicular to the mirror and sideways to the vector motion the c is the hypotenuse angle to the speed of the box. This has no negative number. Geometrically any angle of the clock to the vector motion gives the same tick rate of the frame. Any speed different from c would give a different answer than the observed one. So we can understand it is the added distance of the hypotenuse and not a change in c that causes the gamma term in Relativity SR.

Deviate from Relativity postulates and you no longer follow observations in physics.
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Offline nilak

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Re: Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
« Reply #23 on: 29/12/2016 16:25:15 »
The angle of the mirror with the vector speed is 90 degrees  in the simplest case. Particle waves that compose the box move follow a helix which extends on all directions but the lead front is moving on a single axis.
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Offline nilak

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Re: Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
« Reply #24 on: 29/12/2016 16:25:44 »
The angle of the mirror with the vector speed is 90 degrees  in the simplest case. Particle waves that compose the box follow a helix which extends on all directions but the lead front is moving on a single axis.
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Offline GoC

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Re: Length contraction is a mathematical convenience.
« Reply #25 on: 30/12/2016 13:29:39 »
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The angle of the mirror with the vector speed is 90 degrees  in the simplest case

Ok lets look at what is happening to your reflection in SR at half the speed of light. You are standing in front
of the mirror. The angle of reflection to enable you to see your reflection is 30 degrees forward to the mirror
and 30 degrees back to observe your image. Light is independent of the frame by Relativity so there is no
perpendicular view with vector velocity. Your image is contracted by the inverse square of the distance the light image traveled.
 When you increase your vector velocity the angle decreases and the hypotenuse increases. This is what
happens to the light clocks in your frame to measure the tick rate of your frame. There is equivalence to
 the electron cycle while traveling a vector speed. This is proof that there is fundamental energy (zero point energy)
in space. Both the photon and electron energy are reduced by the same ratio to c. At c the electron can not cycle.
At c the photon cannot go faster. c is the rest state of mass and c is the total energy state in vector velocity
for the photon. The angular total motion for the electron is always c while the vector speed is always less.
This is the confounding between photon and physical clocks.
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