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  4. Space and matter concept
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Space and matter concept

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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #20 on: 14/10/2016 22:11:24 »
[Quote/ I've just found a paper where Einstein also said:
"More careful reflection teaches us however, that the special theory of relativity does not compel us to deny ether. We may assume the existence of an ether; only we must give up ascribing a definite state of motion to it, i.e. we must by abstraction take from it the last mechanical characteristic which Lorentz had still left it." \Quote]

I read that many times. He had a subjective opinion. Its only when we ascribe spin state of motion to it can we describe relativity mechanically. Einstein was only human. He made many mistakes although relativity was not one of them.

[Quote\ Concept update:
There are two possibilities:
1. space density changes close large mass object (that are in fact higher values of this density). It means constant time between each point is space, but where the density is increasing there are more points that occupy the volume. It has the advantage that in between points there cannot be empty space, which is more plausible for my understanding. Also space has a structure, but empty void doesn't. This means beyond the boundaries of this structured space (which can be finite, mathematicaly), there is "absolute nothingness"(see recent topic on this forum). The downside of this concept is that it allows generation of new points from nothing. The new space created has new potential energy, but you need energy to create extra space, so conservation of energy is obeyed.
Constant time intervals vs. constant speed makes more sense since speed in not a fundamental property but time and distance are.
2. Space density doesn't change, but the scale expands. If you draw gridlines, the distance between them is increasing, but also the time between gridlines does, it means constant c, that is in fact GR, nothing new. But the novelty o want to bring here is that space has a structure as an aether made of points and matter is also part of it, not distinct  entities.
This second concept allows absolute nothingness (empty void) between points of space and prohibits the propagation process. /Quote]

Depending on the operating system you use to describe a theory there are many more than two.

If energy is of space as I suspect dilation and clock tick rate slowing is expansion of dark mass energy particles increasing the distance and measuring stick. If energy is of magic electron motion than it is more particles hindering speed of tick rate. The electron and photon are confounded in every frame to measure the same speed of light in a vacuum.

So you have to describe your operating system before your claim relativistic effects. Unless you are not following Relativity. If that's the case you can claim anything.

Relativity has a mechanical cause. Either a substance to transfer energy (an Ether type) or the void type by main stream. Only you can chose to which you subscribe.   
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #21 on: 15/10/2016 08:50:44 »
Quote
So you have to describe your operating system before your claim relativistic effects. Unless you are not following Relativity. If that's the case you can claim anything.

Relativity has a mechanical cause. Either a substance to transfer energy (an Ether type) or the void type by main stream. Only you can chose to which you subscribe.   
Relativity, like quantum mechanics are theories that use mathematical concepts, based on observations. But they don't explain all observations. My model is based on some assumptions that I consider to be correct like in GR: clocks work faster away from large mass objects and slower when closer to them. I use a different idea to get to this result, not constant c but constant t. Hopefully I will be able to make new predictions or explain unknown misteries.
However, the main idea of the concept is not relativity but the space as a stucture of points with properties and not waves and particles in empty void. Currently, I'm in favor of constant t, but a similar model can be design for constant c.
« Last Edit: 15/10/2016 10:42:53 by Nilak »
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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #22 on: 15/10/2016 14:21:51 »
Yes relativity postulate is constant c. Time is a man made concept that is explained very well by relativity mathematics. Tick rates change depending on the space you occupy. So what we measure as time is different by the math of relativity. Saying time is constant is going backwards.

Time is just a relative speed of reactions while we all are in the present. We are just a biological clock. SR speed reduces the available energy of c by using it for speed. This is reflected in tick rate of clocks.
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #23 on: 16/10/2016 10:56:39 »
Quote from: GoC on 15/10/2016 14:21:51
Yes relativity postulate is constant c. Time is a man made concept that is explained very well by relativity mathematics. Tick rates change depending on the space you occupy. So what we measure as time is different by the math of relativity. Saying time is constant is going backwards.
Yes, you are right. My mistake was I think because I didn't separate coordinated time by proper time. When I said time is constant, that was actually coordinated time, but proper time it isn't. Proper speed is constant. This is relativity, and not a different concept.
Quote
Time is just a relative speed of reactions while we all are in the present. We are just a biological clock. SR speed reduces the available energy of c by using it for speed. This is reflected in tick rate of clocks.

Now if I follow my model:
If part of E is used for speed, m1c1^2=m2c2^2. c1,c2 are coordinated speeds. If c1>c2 then m1<m2. if mass is coordinated space density (sd), sd1<sd2. This means that, when comparig two particles, with different masses, we compare space densities which are different. Proper densities are the same.
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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #24 on: 16/10/2016 14:41:06 »
    Einstein used proper speed as a constant. This aspect of Relativity is very important. Measured distances change by dilation and speed. There is an equivalence between SR and GR. We can show by math the visual length of a measuring stick lengthens as we approach c. This has nothing to do with the Lorentz contraction of an observer at rest. The physical size of a measuring stick does not change with speed (SR) just the visual length. It is the same with the Lorentz contraction. This can be shown geometrically with the finite speed of light competing with the speed of an object. In GR (gravity) dilation is the equivalence. What is amazing, the photon and electron are confounded to measure the same speed of light, in a vacuum, in every frame. A clock can be placed in any angle compared to the vector speed and geometrically, shown to tick at the same rate. Both a light clock and a mechanical clock tick in synchronization. This is proof there is a control mechanism fixing both the electron cycle and photon distance, in every frame to be the same measured ratio.

     Your idea is a higher density of micro particles slowing down the speed of light to take longer. I thought through that process in the past and had to abandon that approach. The reason for me to abandon it was it did not satisfy all four pats of Relativity. Specifically it fails dilation. We know light curves around a celestial body by expansion of space. Your first thought is, correct there must be more particles and it curves around them. But when you think deeper you begin to realize, there is a control mechanism of space time measurement. This has to be in the form of energy. Now the question becomes where is the fundamental energy. Two choices come to mind. It is either mass as science now believes or it is of space. We can consider the electrons as fundamental energy but that does not satisfy electrons and photons being confounded in every frame. In relativity mathematics photons have to be virtual or just not part of mass. This leaves us with one logical choice. The energy has to be of space to move electrons and photons in a confounded manor.

     Energy spin state of c would have to be stretched in the presence of mass occupying space. The physical clock electron based moves further to remain the same relative speed of c. There is no logical reason for more particles/mass. Mass would reduce the density of energy by taking up space energy once occupied and removing that energy to move the electrons. Gravity being caused by mass attracted to a lower energy density.

I might be incorrect in my logic but you need to find a operating system for relativity as a whole and not just one specific cause of one observation.

We are in a catch 22 in our understanding using postulates. We are all making claims based on our own operating system of beliefs. Main stream has nothing to work with because of the MMX. Rather than disproving one type of Ether which is all it disproved, main stream science refuses to consider an Ether not yet disproved.

Main stream removed the tools needed to understand the four forces. They traded mechanics in for magic.
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #25 on: 16/10/2016 15:34:54 »
There are some things that I find interesting analizing, considering my model.
 About dark matter.
Based on my model, mass is a space density index and space is a field of points. Mass can only be attributed to a volume of space. So it is spacedensity*volume=the number of points. The number of points is actually infinite. But mass is a relativistic concept so you can chose a fixed value for it. Dark matter is the made of the points we can't measure.  Basically the mass of the visible matter plus the mass of the univisible matter makes the entire universe. We can attribute the whole universe a mass.

Universe expansion.
From Big Bang the universe has expanded to a certain value. That mean the field of points reached a certain limit.
The distribution of particles and their state gives the expansion rate. It is possible to estimate this distribuition if we could measure the coordinated speed of light in certain directions and at certain distances. Also, the increasing expansion rate could be the cause of higher space density at the outer edge of the universe. It is like a big dark matter shell around the universe.
« Last Edit: 16/10/2016 19:17:48 by Nilak »
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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #26 on: 16/10/2016 19:41:53 »
Yes your idea is logical for two issues of an operating system. What in your model moves the electron and photon confounded in every frame?
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #27 on: 16/10/2016 20:09:49 »
Quote
The reason for me to abandon it was it did not satisfy all four pats of Relativity. Specifically it fails dilation. We

I don't see right now, why it fails dilation. The coordinated time is constant, proper space and time dilates and contracts proportionaly creating a field of density regions, leaving the measurement of c in proper reference frame constant. C=dx''/dt''=dx'/dt' the external observer sees c'=dx'/dt, c''=dx''/dt. Also, density of space is constant in abery reference frame, and it varies  when viewed from an observer.


Quote
In relativity mathematics photons have to be virtual or just not part of mass.
 
If I follow my model, photons are propagating values of space points properties. So, their mass can be viewed as  mass of the space they occupy at a particular moment. That mass would be not detectable and could be associated with dark matter. These photons would't produce mass, but only propagate information. Do you think there is a problem here ?
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #28 on: 16/10/2016 20:44:38 »
Quote from: GoC on 16/10/2016 19:41:53
Yes your idea is logical for two issues of an operating system. What in your model moves the electron and photon confounded in every frame?
I didn't analyze this part very well and this seems to me, by far, the hardest part. The values of space points properties propagate from one point to the next. I see it similarily to pulling a string. The easier way to analyze this may seem, by studying static fields, however, according to my model, nothing is static, except when stopping time.
The string pulling analogy may lead to a conclusion that photons are generated in pairs, which I have to check. When you pull a string, the waves go both ways.

Imagine turning on a electromagnet and watching the effect on a piece of paper on which you sprinkle a layer of iron powder. If you slow down time, you should see how the pieces of iron move. The propagation of values should be at speed c. The magnitude of the values of magnetic field in each space particle will decrease with distance but the spreading out never stops. Whem turning off the current, the values should propagate like when releasing a string. The energy of the magnet is released and will continue manifest it's presence in this space of property points.





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Offline Alex Dullius Siqueira

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #29 on: 17/10/2016 03:06:12 »
Quote from: GoC on 16/10/2016 14:41:06
    Einstein used proper speed as a constant. This aspect of Relativity is very important. Measured distances change by dilation and speed. There is an equivalence between SR and GR. We can show by math the visual length of a measuring stick lengthens as we approach c. This has nothing to do with the Lorentz contraction of an observer at rest. The physical size of a measuring stick does not change with speed (SR) just the visual length. It is the same with the Lorentz contraction. This can be shown geometrically with the finite speed of light competing with the speed of an object. In GR (gravity) dilation is the equivalence. What is amazing, the photon and electron are confounded to measure the same speed of light, in a vacuum, in every frame. A clock can be placed in any angle compared to the vector speed and geometrically, shown to tick at the same rate. Both a light clock and a mechanical clock tick in synchronization. This is proof there is a control mechanism fixing both the electron cycle and photon distance, in every frame to be the same measured ratio.

     Your idea is a higher density of micro particles slowing down the speed of light to take longer. I thought through that process in the past and had to abandon that approach. The reason for me to abandon it was it did not satisfy all four pats of Relativity. Specifically it fails dilation. We know light curves around a celestial body by expansion of space. Your first thought is, correct there must be more particles and it curves around them. But when you think deeper you begin to realize, there is a control mechanism of space time measurement. This has to be in the form of energy. Now the question becomes where is the fundamental energy. Two choices come to mind. It is either mass as science now believes or it is of space. We can consider the electrons as fundamental energy but that does not satisfy electrons and photons being confounded in every frame. In relativity mathematics photons have to be virtual or just not part of mass. This leaves us with one logical choice. The energy has to be of space to move electrons and photons in a confounded manor.

     Energy spin state of c would have to be stretched in the presence of mass occupying space. The physical clock electron based moves further to remain the same relative speed of c. There is no logical reason for more particles/mass. Mass would reduce the density of energy by taking up space energy once occupied and removing that energy to move the electrons. Gravity being caused by mass attracted to a lower energy density.

I might be incorrect in my logic but you need to find a operating system for relativity as a whole and not just one specific cause of one observation.

We are in a catch 22 in our understanding using postulates. We are all making claims based on our own operating system of beliefs. Main stream has nothing to work with because of the MMX. Rather than disproving one type of Ether which is all it disproved, main stream science refuses to consider an Ether not yet disproved.

Main stream removed the tools needed to understand the four forces. They traded mechanics in for magic.

 i'm very impressed with the lack of emotion and sharp focus you demonstrate on your awnsers.
 Tell me, I know trough observation of photons is impossible cause the very interaction with the enviroment invalidates the experiment, photons can be only theorized by using logic over GR..
 So I would apreciate if you try to exchange the "particle photon", for not a virtual particle, but for a temporary construction of the whole (aether) that happens wherever there is another particles, photons as being nothing else but energy surrownded by a "shape", only a temporary container of energy, provinient from aether itself reacting to the energy, sort of enveloping it on some sort of constant spiral "shape", and due this constant precense of new photons being possible activated and deactivated wherever other particles are presented, as the true source of the sppining of the other particles...
  in other words, do you believe, following logic, that is possible that each photon is simple a "shape" of the whole, with that in mind reaching to the possibilitie that there is no "one photon" as single particle, but instead the very aether that when in contact with these particles, force itself to spin around of them at "C", (C being the maximum speed in with the shape photon can be created by space).
 I'm only wondering if is possible to photon being only a spiral shape of the whole to carry energy, would it, if possible, explain why photons are able to move at C? And most important, this alternative perspective of what photons are, would not invalidade GR, Correct? I'm assuming that a photon that is creating from space at "C" would not require the photons to be massless anymore, correct? Preserving E=mc2, onyl with a different perspective....

 I do ask cause my knoledge about GR is not even close of the one your displaying this topic, perhaps you could awnser...
 In a rudimentar example:
 Space/void = Aether
 Aether/particles=Photons  (this very shape and sppining aether, the source from whom the particles are extracting the fundamental energy...
 
  Photons as being a spiral shape of the aether happening at C due the precense of other particles, seting those very particles in motion, in large escale seting whole planets in motion folowing the same process...
 
  Light being only as any other photons presented in matter, with the only difference of the lacking of density, so each spiral photon presented on a ray of light, wouldn't be traveling from A to B at all, but intead photons happening at "C" all the time from A to B. And each spiral photon contruction where the energy is passing by, resulting in resonating empty photons around of it in all dirrections, like empity resonating replicas of the original one, resulting in waves?
   I'm not looking at virtual photons, and the resonating photons not even different of the first one, since they are all constructions, each photon would be as real as the one that desencadeate the event...
   
    What I mean with temporary spiral construction of space, is sort of , aether contantly trying to collapse at "C" over the energy (gravity), since different from macro mass that has density, light would have almost none.
     Without any density aether would be constantly trying to colapse ove the light, sicne it can't it would than start to built aorund of it, contantly trying to colapse and failing, this process resulting in some sort of sppiral propagation of light, once again would be constantly happening at "C"... "C" being not the speed of the energy itself, but "C" being the maximum speed of witch those atempts of colapse would be happening... Sort of "C" not being the speed of light at all, but the maximum speed with aether can produce the photon?

Possible?
« Last Edit: 17/10/2016 03:29:40 by Alex Siqueira »
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #30 on: 17/10/2016 09:52:11 »
On reply #29
No offense, but I think we should refrain ourselves from making aggressive and impulsive comments and find a more polite manner to reply to issues. I appreciate the simple interest in folowing my post even though statement might not be correct. Your comments are very appreciated as well but I suggest not offending other persons. Sorry for this.
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Offline Alex Dullius Siqueira

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #31 on: 17/10/2016 10:23:15 »
Quote from: Nilak on 17/10/2016 09:52:11
On reply #29
No offense, but I think we should refrain ourselves from making aggressive and impulsive comments and find a more polite manner to reply to issues. I appreciate the simple interest in folowing my post even though statement might not be correct. Your comments are very appreciated as well but I suggest not offending other persons. Sorry for this.

Sure, wherever that suppose to mean, no problem at all, and thank you for answering on his place... Although, is rare to me to ask a direct question to a specific member, for more that I respect your opinion as much as my own, after being following his work. I sincerely do not believe that we both together have the clarity of mind that he does about GR on all its aspects, for that very reason my curiosity still remain despise of anything...
 To not extend this much further, I'll submit a PV to the specific user, do not worry wherever it was, wont happen again...

all the luck...
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #32 on: 17/10/2016 11:00:40 »
Concept clarification.

I had a conversation on a different forum, an I was suggested some clarifications.

Space points are (entities)  exhibited relatively never having an absolute position in some preferred coordinate system. "It does not behave like a classical fluid.  Points define LOCAL space as there are no extant fixed points non-locally or globally."
 
« Last Edit: 17/10/2016 20:48:05 by Nilak »
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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #33 on: 17/10/2016 16:35:46 »
I want to apologize for my lack of emotion. I have struggled with this aspect of my nature all of my life. I come across as being rude without the understanding of the feelings of others. While I have empathy for visual physical pain I am not able to process emotional pain properly to what is considered average. I have a below average emotional understanding. I might not have the capacity to learn. I can only apologize when accused and continue to offend.

  [Quote/]Alex Siqueira
« on: Today at 03:06:12 » Nilak
« on: Today at 11:00:40 »  [\Quote]

   Both of you are understanding there are particles beyond mass that we can perceive. This is a size and motion problem that we will never detect other than orthogonally. Motion of macro mass is possible because of the motion of micro mass c. Einstein Suggested we cannot assign motion to an Ether. A flow of ether would invalidate relativity. A static Ether was disproven by the MMX. There is only one motion left and that is micro particle spin c that actually causes relativity. We can only postulate micro particles spin at c because like electron movement, currently there is no mechanical cause being expressed by main stream. I will postulate a cause for electron motion. Nilak you are in the first stages of understanding and Alex perceives most of the mechanical process to understand a possible explanation for relativity mathematics.

Nilak if you give your particles spin c the views you express will take the form of relativity. No micro particle in space occupies that space indefinitely unless the spin function is a ridged matrix of the universe. I am leaning towards a grid matrix of spin c because light has a different distance east to west than west to east. New York to San Francisco is fourteen ns further for light to travel than in the opposite direction. If you go north to the axis and then south and reverse the direction atomic clocks remain synchronized. So it might be likely that the Earth as it travels through space dilates the new particles in space same as light traveling through space dilates new particles.

The spin nature of the micro particles create a rotational path forward with its own dilation of the particles not enough to make a wave other than background noise. When the electron jumps its orbit it changes its path abruptly causing a wave to be generated. The rotation causes a backward and forward wave with a mirror image on the reversed side. When you bring those sides back together the one affects the other as spooky at a distance entanglement. In reality the reverse wave was created from the start and the wave spin when measured by one is opposite of the other. similar to you being tricked by a magician by not understanding the trick.

Dilation of energy is of course density of micro energy particles being expanded by moving the electrons of macro mass. Particle spin does not slow down its just the light wave moves through more space between particles. Light curves around dilation trying to stay as close to the original wave density of space as possible.

Gravity of course is mass trying to occupy the least dense energy space possible by the inverse square of the distance to the most dilated position. The moon pulls up the ocean 6 inches by its dilation of space and inverse square affect.

This brings us to galaxies having an accumulated dilation we view as the lensing affect. The light produced in dilation is red shifted because of the accumulated expansion of micro energy particles. They are most expanded in the center of galaxies where 75% of the stars create the galaxy light. So we can explain red shift from our less dilated position in our galaxy by GR rather than main stream claiming it to be SR red shift.

The big bang is not necessary to magically produce mass. Macro mass is produced in suns by creating electrons. They are created from micro energy by fusion.

I can explain relativity mechanically with just the postulate of spinning micro mass. Space time, micro mass energy, Dark mass energy call it anything you like.

It may take 500 years before main stream quits floundering in their belief in magic and not having the tools (spinning micro mass) to understand relativity both mathematically and mechanically.
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Offline Alex Dullius Siqueira

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #34 on: 17/10/2016 20:21:38 »
Quote from: GoC on 17/10/2016 16:35:46
I want to apologize for my lack of emotion. I have struggled with this aspect of my nature all of my life. I come across as being rude without the understanding of the feelings of others. While I have empathy for visual physical pain I am not able to process emotional pain properly to what is considered average. I have a below average emotional understanding. I might not have the capacity to learn. I can only apologize when accused and continue to offend.

  [Quote/]Alex Siqueira
« on: Today at 03:06:12 » Nilak
« on: Today at 11:00:40 »  [\Quote]

   Both of you are understanding there are particles beyond mass that we can perceive. This is a size and motion problem that we will never detect other than orthogonally. Motion of macro mass is possible because of the motion of micro mass c. Einstein Suggested we cannot assign motion to an Ether. A flow of ether would invalidate relativity. A static Ether was disproven by the MMX. There is only one motion left and that is micro particle spin c that actually causes relativity. We can only postulate micro particles spin at c because like electron movement, currently there is no mechanical cause being expressed by main stream. I will postulate a cause for electron motion. Nilak you are in the first stages of understanding and Alex perceives most of the mechanical process to understand a possible explanation for relativity mathematics.

Nilak if you give your particles spin c the views you express will take the form of relativity. No micro particle in space occupies that space indefinitely unless the spin function is a ridged matrix of the universe. I am leaning towards a grid matrix of spin c because light has a different distance east to west than west to east. New York to San Francisco is fourteen ns further for light to travel than in the opposite direction. If you go north to the axis and then south and reverse the direction atomic clocks remain synchronized. So it might be likely that the Earth as it travels through space dilates the new particles in space same as light traveling through space dilates new particles.

The spin nature of the micro particles create a rotational path forward with its own dilation of the particles not enough to make a wave other than background noise. When the electron jumps its orbit it changes its path abruptly causing a wave to be generated. The rotation causes a backward and forward wave with a mirror image on the reversed side. When you bring those sides back together the one affects the other as spooky at a distance entanglement. In reality the reverse wave was created from the start and the wave spin when measured by one is opposite of the other. similar to you being tricked by a magician by not understanding the trick.

Dilation of energy is of course density of micro energy particles being expanded by moving the electrons of macro mass. Particle spin does not slow down its just the light wave moves through more space between particles. Light curves around dilation trying to stay as close to the original wave density of space as possible.

Gravity of course is mass trying to occupy the least dense energy space possible by the inverse square of the distance to the most dilated position. The moon pulls up the ocean 6 inches by its dilation of space and inverse square affect.

This brings us to galaxies having an accumulated dilation we view as the lensing affect. The light produced in dilation is red shifted because of the accumulated expansion of micro energy particles. They are most expanded in the center of galaxies where 75% of the stars create the galaxy light. So we can explain red shift from our less dilated position in our galaxy by GR rather than main stream claiming it to be SR red shift.

The big bang is not necessary to magically produce mass. Macro mass is produced in suns by creating electrons. They are created from micro energy by fusion.

I can explain relativity mechanically with just the postulate of spinning micro mass. Space time, micro mass energy, Dark mass energy call it anything you like.

It may take 500 years before main stream quits floundering in their belief in magic and not having the tools (spinning micro mass) to understand relativity both mathematically and mechanically.

 I have to admit, that I do suffer from the same ill, the offense must me on the cultural side witch I would no know, the best I can do is accept... The point is, when I suggest the lack,"on the text", I was purely doing a complement, it's very pleasant to read well explained contend...
 it was away easy to to read mind based on the patterns on their texts or speeches. Much fake or lack of fate on the own beliefs. Every time you explain relativity, for more I try to find a gap that transparent convenience, although this time I could not find...
 In resume it must mean that this member truly understands relativity. It's not my other language, despise of whatever it sound like, be sure my friend it was a sincere complement...
  In some cases, for me given our history lack of emotion and sympathize with other, is just what saves society from total collapse, and the excess of emotion what sedate the rational mind and allowing someone to be manipulated by, on this case, mainstream.... Like when one read on the paper about a terrible accident, and instead of feel something, realizes that the history is not perfect told, there is fact that must remain unknown to press, thus inevitable gets to the conclusion, that feel something about such thing, would be unreal... You can relate with what you see, as most of us here, anyway believe me, it is a complement friend...


 In respect with the explanation you provide, I still not entirely sure, I'll try to figure out...
 May be subjection, I can't stop to believe that, photons, are the wrong concept, although seems, that we did the correct calculations...
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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #35 on: 18/10/2016 04:53:06 »
just saying the word photon brings a particle to mind. Visual nm for the wave, the electron jumps from one state to another rotationally disturbing the spin state of c particles. The rotation and length from the rest state creates the wave where 180 degrees one side is a push forward and the other side a pull backward. This wave front is propagated in all directions. the 180 degree shell is perfectly opposite so it is considered entangled when you determine the spin state of one side the other side is the opposite spin state. Entangled wave information does not travel faster than light. They are opposite spin states at the creation of light. Main stream is being tricked by their understanding of light being a particle.

It is only the wave on spin particles already at c that are disturbed and propagate that disturbance at c until the pattern is dissipated by mass and detected as work energy.
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #36 on: 24/10/2016 22:47:00 »
Quote from: GoC on 18/10/2016 04:53:06
just saying the word photon brings a particle to mind. Visual nm for the wave, the electron jumps from one state to another rotationally disturbing the spin state of c particles. The rotation and length from the rest state creates the wave where 180 degrees one side is a push forward and the other side a pull backward. This wave front is propagated in all directions. the 180 degree shell is perfectly opposite so it is considered entangled when you determine the spin state of one side the other side is the opposite spin state. Entangled wave information does not travel faster than light. They are opposite spin states at the creation of light. Main stream is being tricked by their understanding of light being a particle.

It is only the wave on spin particles already at c that are disturbed and propagate that disturbance at c until the pattern is dissipated by mass and detected as work energy.

The spin state at the creation of light was disproved by Bell' Theorem, although that might require more evidence.
The concept of spin for c particles is not very clear to me. However since my concept includes point entities that have a set of properties, the possibility that one of them could be spin, can be analyzed.
The values of some properties can be stored as spin.
If your c particles spin, do you mean they also have mass ?
My space point entities also can have some infinitesimal mass, but the mass is more like their own existence not a property. It is for equivalence purposes with other theories.

P.s. The angular momentum of point particles is not very clear either. If there are infinitesimal radius and mass then there will be an infinitesimal angular momentum.
« Last Edit: 26/10/2016 22:08:23 by Nilak »
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #37 on: 24/10/2016 23:17:52 »
Entropy properties following this concept.
Space point entities tend to collapse to a single point. This can be viewed as negative energy. The information pushed into the system, also known as energy, does the opposite and can be viewed as positive energy.
The tendency to collapse is a factor that, reduces the entropy of the system while the information, as positive energy increases the entropy. The positive energy is always matches the negtive energy. The total entropy depends on the definition of entropy. As a degre of disorder, the total entropy varies with time.
Gravity.
Instead of time space curvature, the gravity is simply a tendency of space to collapse to its initial state. As it collapses its mass/density  increases. To balance this you need energy.  An high density space near an even higher density  will require more energy to be pushed away so the effect is that those density will travel toward each other.
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Offline nilak (OP)

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #38 on: 27/10/2016 08:21:44 »
Quote from: Nilak on 16/10/2016 20:09:49
Quote
The reason for me to abandon it was it did not satisfy all four pats of Relativity. Specifically it fails dilation. We

I don't see right now, why it fails dilation. The coordinated time is constant, proper space and time dilates and contracts proportionaly creating a field of density regions, leaving the measurement of c in proper reference frame constant. C=dx''/dt''=dx'/dt' the external observer sees c'=dx'/dt, c''=dx''/dt. Also, density of space is constant in abery reference frame, and it varies  when viewed from an observer.


Quote
In relativity mathematics photons have to be virtual or just not part of mass.
 
If I follow my model, photons are propagating values of space points properties. So, their mass can be viewed as  mass of the space they occupy at a particular moment. That mass would be not detectable and could be associated with dark matter. These photons would't produce mass, but only propagate information. Do you think there is a problem here ?

Yes, the model has issues with relativity.
Also, photons mean energy into the system, and that affects the space. The wave can't propagate without affecting the space it is traveling through, which involves mass.
« Last Edit: 27/10/2016 08:33:28 by Nilak »
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Offline GoC

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Re: Space and matter concept
« Reply #39 on: 27/10/2016 14:59:46 »
Nilak,

   I believe you are on the correct path. I am trying to move you to see the whole picture. Your points in space are correct if mechanics apply to relativity. Entropy is of mass and not space. Your points in space have to spin to mechanically move electrons and photons in a confounded manor we observe. A Flow of information is in the form of particle wave without entropy. Space energy from the spin state of space particles propagate the wave in all directions equally. Bells theorem does not disprove spinning particles at c. I can describe the spin direction of 2d grid particles that create relativity's electron flow and propagation wave caused by the electron jump we understand as a photon. Your particles do not flow they spin. A spectrum observation is different wave propagations on the same particle spin grid. Particle flow is not part of the wave propagation.
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