Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: syhprum on 23/12/2020 22:04:17
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After my injection this morning I found I was breathing hard and fast for about 15 minutes, not a source of worry as it soon wore off.
It may only be psychosomatic
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Congratulations! You must be the first person on the forum to receive a COVID-19 vaccine!
...unless someone was in the clinical trials?
It was probably the excitement of getting the vaccine before POTUS!
There have been two cases where people in the UK who had a high risk of allergies, and got an allergic reaction to the vaccine.
- These people knew that they had life-threatening allergies, and carried an "epipen" with them
- After those cases, life-threatening allergies have been used as a question to bypass those with high levels of allergies. That group will try a different style of vaccine.
- A life-threatening allergy can include closing of the airways, making it hard to breathe
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine_autoinjector
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After my injection this morning I found I was breathing hard and fast for about 15 minutes, not a source of worry as it soon wore off.
It may only be psychosomatic
No side effects occur from vaccines and it's just coincidence. Meaning people get aches and pains all the time even if they did not have a vaccine. Remember correlations is not proof of causation.
Vaccine are perfectly says Says Dr Benson.
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After my injection this morning I found I was breathing hard and fast for about 15 minutes, not a source of worry as it soon wore off.
It may only be psychosomatic
Yes it was psycosomatic
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No side effects occur from vaccines and it's just coincidence.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that. After I got the flu shot last year, I felt so sleepy that I napped on the couch and ended up sleeping there all night (a total of about 12 hours). My brother, who got the same shot, felt mild symptoms mimicking a flu (obviously not the actual flu, but the immune system does, ideally, react to the vaccine and can thus produce similar symptoms). My father and a friend from England have had similar reactions. It's pretty normal.
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A report from the US CDC counted 21 severe reactions from 1.9 million injections.
- A severe reaction would include a severe allergic reaction, which might include difficulties breathing
- The advice is that for those with known severe allergies, they should be monitored for 30 minutes after the injection (rather than 15 minutes for those without severe allergies)
So it's possible that you had a reaction to the vaccine - but far more likely it was psychosomatic.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/cdc-says-severe-allergic-reactions-to-covid-vaccine-run-10-times-the-flu-shot-but-still-rare.html
mild symptoms mimicking a flu (obviously not the actual flu, but the immune system does, ideally, react to the vaccine and can thus produce similar symptoms)
One of the first reactions of your body to a viral infection is to produce interferons - a class of signalling chemicals that tells your body to be on the alert for infection, and be ready to resist it.
- The symptoms of raised interferon levels are: fever, aches and pains, fatigue
- In other words, almost the same symptoms you get from influenza
- The scientists who discovered interferon thought it may be an ideal way to prevent colds and flu
- Except interferon produced almost the same symptoms as the symptoms they were trying to avoid!
The vaccine is meant to imitate a viral infection, and so it is no surprise that one of the first effects is production of interferon at the site of the injection.
- So the vaccination can be expected to produce some flu-like symptoms
- But the severity differs from person to person
- Usually, these symptoms pass in a day or so
- Fortunately, your body does not have to deal with a real virus running amok and attacking your body, so the symptoms are mild compared to a real flu infection.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferon
I was interested to see a note in that article that SARS-COV2 has a gene to suppress the body's initial interferon response. That allows the virus to take over before the immune system notices.
- That may be why people become infectious with COVID-19 before they develop symptoms?
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If I have an injection I pass out, if I wait 15 minutes and then press on the injection site once more I pass out once more. I do not really understand it, it is not nerves, more like adrenaline.
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If I have an injection I pass out
It's a good idea to tell the nurse/doctor about that before giving you the injection - so they don't panic, call an ambulance, etc.
Personally, I prefer to look the other way when people stick needles in my arm...
if I wait 15 minutes and then press on the injection site once more I pass out once more
I suggest that you don't do that.
They need to get through a lot of injections every hour, and if you consume the attention of one medical professional for 30 minutes, that is 5-10 people who are going to miss out on their vaccination.
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If I have an injection I pass out
It's a good idea to tell the nurse/doctor about that before giving you the injection - so they don't panic, call an ambulance, etc.
Personally, I prefer to look the other way when people stick needles in my arm...
if I wait 15 minutes and then press on the injection site once more I pass out once more
I suggest that you don't do that.
They need to get through a lot of injections every hour, and if you consume the attention of one medical professional for 30 minutes, that is 5-10 people who are going to miss out on their vaccination.
I will not be having the injection, firstly because I am not in the age bracket until some time in august, 2nd because I believe getting the virus will leave me more resistant to future variants as in the new Brazil variant, thirdly, there are many other people in the world who deserve the vaccine before me, and last I pass out.
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2nd because I believe getting the virus will leave me more resistant to future variants
Based on what reasoning?
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2nd because I believe getting the virus will leave me more resistant to future variants
Based on what reasoning?
Based on cow pox going along way to protect against smallpox.
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How is that evidence that a vaccine leaves your immune system less prepared to fight novel infections?
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I believe getting the virus will leave me more resistant to future variants...
Based on cow pox going along way to protect against smallpox.
Vaccination vs Infection is not what you are comparing here:
- The original meaning of Vaccination was giving you cowpox to avoid smallpox (a related, but deadly virus)
- Before it was replaced by vaccination, the only smallpox prophylactic was "Variolation": giving you a dose of smallpox to the skin in a controlled manner to avoid a later uncontrolled attack of smallpox via the lungs (which had a far higher death rate).
- The later, more effective versions of Variolation used attenuated strains of smallpox virus.
- What you are proposing is more like Variolation: Intentionally catching COVID-19 to avoid a later COVID-19 infection.
So the questions here are:
- Where are you going to get your attenuated strain of SARS-COV2 for your intentional infection?
- How are you going to administer the SARS-COV2 virus so that it is less lethal than breathing it in?
- My guess is that (without a vaccine) you will catch SARS-COV2 by breathing it in. It will not be an attenuated virus , but some "full strength" strain.
So, by what measure is (1) worse than (2)?
1) a chance of fainting and maybe seeming a bit weak in front of a medical professional (who is expecting it - because you warned them beforehand)
2) The typical 1-2% chance of death, and 10-20% chance of hospitalization and/or long-term disability from COVID-19
The reason we don't use Variolation today is that modern smallpox vaccines also effectively protected against smallpox - and it left one mark on your arm (at the injection site), rather than the all-over pock-marks of cowpox, or the blanket of pock-marks from Variolation (if you survived Variolation).
See:
Patient infected with cowpox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowpox#Medical_use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_vaccine
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Congratulations! You must be the first person on the forum to receive a COVID-19 vaccine!
...unless someone was in the clinical trials?
It was probably the excitement of getting the vaccine before POTUS!
There have been two cases where people in the UK who had a high risk of allergies, and got an allergic reaction to the vaccine.
- These people knew that they had life-threatening allergies, and carried an "epipen" with them
- After those cases, life-threatening allergies have been used as a question to bypass those with high levels of allergies. That group will try a different style of vaccine.
- A life-threatening allergy can include closing of the airways, making it hard to breathe
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine_autoinjector
At least 23 people who received Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 shots have died in Norway, with 13 of the fatalities possibly linked to the vaccine’s side effects, authorities said on Thursday.
All 13 individuals were above the age of 80, according to the Norwegian Medicines Agency.
It said common side effects of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, such as fever and nausea, might have led to the death of some elderly patients.
Along with the 13 deaths, nine cases of serious side effects and seven instances of less serious side effects have been recorded, the agency’s medical director, Steinar Madsen, told national broadcaster NRK.
Norway started COVID-19 vaccinations last month, right after the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was approved by the European Medicines Agency.
Nearly 33,000 people have so far received a dose in the country, according to data by UK-based tracker OurWorldInData.
Latest figures show Norway’s virus caseload currently stands at 57,736, including 511 fatalities.
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6000 people die every month in Norway, mostly over the age of 80. At 1% national infection rate it is quite likely that the 23 post-vaccination fatalities would have already been infected before vaccination.
The policy of prioritising the "most vulnerable" is questionable since this group contains (a) those least likely to be in casual contact with carriers (b) those least likely to infect others and (c) those most likely to be seriously ill or immunocompromised and thus susceptible to enhanced side-effects.
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6000 people die every month in Norway, mostly over the age of 80. At 1% national infection rate it is quite likely that the 23 post-vaccination fatalities would have already been infected before vaccination.
The policy of prioritising the "most vulnerable" is questionable since this group contains (a) those least likely to be in casual contact with carriers (b) those least likely to infect others and (c) those most likely to be seriously ill or immunocompromised and thus susceptible to enhanced side-effects.
I agree the covid thing is mostly media hype. They never tell you the death rate of other things is but only the covid figures. 1560 people die every day.
They are making all deaths due to covid. a man who tripped and died was a labeled as a covid death because covid may have caused him to trip hence a covid death.
its mostly 80 years old dying anyway.
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They never tell you the death rate of other things
That's because ether other things haven't stopped.
"people still dying in road accidents at pretty much the same rate" is not news.
Pre covid there were about 600,000 deaths a year in the UK
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
That's about 1600 a day.
Broadly the same as the current death rate from covid.
So roughly half the deaths in the UK yesterday were covid related.
That makes it, by a good margin, the biggest killer in the country.
Which means that anyone who thinks that
the covid thing is mostly media hype.
is an idiot.
(and, just to clarify things, Alan didn't say that)
It is doubling the nation's death toll.
And, of course, there's the long term effects too.
They are making all deaths due to covid.
No.
There are twice as many people dying as we would usually have.
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They never tell you the death rate of other things
That's because ether other things haven't stopped.
"people still dying in road accidents at pretty much the same rate" is not news.
Pre covid there were about 600,000 deaths a year in the UK
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281488/number-of-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
That's about 1600 a day.
Broadly the same as the current death rate from covid.
So roughly half the deaths in the UK yesterday were covid related.
That makes it, by a good margin, the biggest killer in the country.
No.
There are twice as many people dying as we would usually have.
Why dont they give both death rates than? Because they want to scare people and keep them in a stare of fear and panic
i hear hospitals get extra money if they report a death as covid.
So they could be falsifying the figures for money.
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Why dont they give both death rates than?
That's because ether other things haven't stopped.
"people still dying in road accidents at pretty much the same rate" is not news.
i hear hospitals get extra money if they report a death as covid.
From whom did you hear it?
Is it a reliable source, or are you spreading a conspiracy theory.
Let's check
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-death-certificate/false-claim-uk-doctors-get-75-for-signing-death-certificates-120-if-patient-had-covid-19-idUSKBN22X2LD?edition-redirect=in
Yes, you are spreading dangerous nonsense.
Did you think about not being part of the problem?
So they could be falsifying the figures for money.
Or not...Because they want to scare people and keep them in a stare of fear and panic
Half the deaths in the UK at the moment are due to covid.
You should be scared.
Panic doesn't really help anyone.
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Why dont they give both death rates than?
That's because ether other things haven't stopped.
"people still dying in road accidents at pretty much the same rate" is not news.
i hear hospitals get extra money if they report a death as covid.
From whom did you hear it?
Is it a reliable source, or are you spreading a conspiracy theory.
I heard President Trump say it. Its on record in front of tv cameras.
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I heard President Trump say it. Its on record in front of tv cameras.
Add it to the list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories_promoted_by_Donald_Trump
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I heard President Trump say it. Its on record in front of tv cameras.
If Trump said it was raining, I'd have to go outside and see it for myself.
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No side effects occur from vaccines and it's just coincidence.
I had a reaction to a typhoid vaccine once: violent uncontrollable shivering, and vomiting. It started about four hours after the injection, and stopped some time during the night whilst I was sleeping it off. I went to work the following day feeling fine.
I don't know whether that means I'm more likely to have a reaction to other vaccines or not, I didn't have any reaction to any of the childhood vaccines as far as I recall.
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That's pretty standard for typhoid. I was warned not to drive to the surgery for mine. Just managed to walk a mile home and collapsed into bed for a day. All clear 24 hours later. Makes you realise how nasty the real thing could have been.
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I called at the surgery on the way home from work for mine, at about 6pm, and the reaction started very suddenly at 10pm, about two minutes after I thought to myself that I'd got off without one. My girlfriend had it too, but no reaction for her.
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I called at the surgery on the way home from work for mine, at about 6pm, and the reaction started very suddenly at 10pm, about two minutes after I thought to myself that I'd got off without one. My girlfriend had it too, but no reaction for her.
A Real Time Live Update for adverse side effects has been set up where you can read other peoples and post your own.
https://prezi.com/i/byzl22mqwfaa/experiences-following-cvvaa/
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At least 23 people who received Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 shots have died in Norway, with 13 of the fatalities possibly linked to the vaccine’s side effects
A close examination of the deaths of 30 elderly people in Norway found no causal link between their vaccination and their death.
- The Australian TGA has approved the Pfizer vaccine for elderly patients, and has placed no upper limit on the age of people who can receive it.
- They did sound a note of caution to doctors:
The data for use in the frail elderly (>85 years) is limited … the potential benefits of vaccination versus the potential risk and clinical impact of even relatively mild systemic adverse events in the frail elderly should be carefully assessed on a case-by-case basis
That's the same as for any medication or treatment in aged people.
On the other hand, Captain Sir Tom Moore (aged 100) died of coronavirus this week.
- He raised money for UK health workers during the pandemic, even making news on the other side of the world.
- So the risks of not being vaccinated are extremely clear.
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A Real Time Live Update for adverse side effects has been set up where you can read other peoples and post your own.
This is a site for people who do feel poorly after a vaccination - even if the effect had nothing to do with the vaccination.
- You must dilute this against the millions who are being vaccinated every week
- And the thousands who are dying of COVID-19 every day (who undoubtedly feel poorly too!)
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On the other hand, Captain Sir Tom Moore (aged 100) died of coronavirus this week.
Of or with? He had pneumonia but also met the government criterion of death within 28 days of a positive COVID test.