Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Technology => Topic started by: pippystardust on 29/03/2012 12:50:12
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this should probably be under PHYSICS but it involves engineering as well
When i drive a car or anything with a steering wheel, i turn the wheel left to go left and right to go right !
BUT ! when i ride my motorbike I turn the handlebars left to go right and right to go left.. if any of you out there ride a bicycle or motorbike then just make yourself consciously aware of where you apply forces on the bars and you will find that you are doing the same.. this phenomena kicks in usually over 10mph.. You HAVE to do it otherwise the bike will go the wrong way.. (its something to do with torque combined with gyroscopics) the bars dont actually turn because you can't turn them against the spin of the wheel.. Its the BIKE that turns (or leans) when you apply these counter steering forces..
My question is ..... if I have never been taught to do this ..and ...I was previously unaware of this phenomena... then.. HOW DID I KNOW WHAT TO DO ?
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How do I steer my motorbike? Hopefully better than this guy (although "bike" is a bit of a stretch.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4YmVP6i4qw#t=1m (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4YmVP6i4qw#t=1m)
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You might find the answer here (or maybe not).
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=41386.msg369282#msg369282 (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=41386.msg369282#msg369282)
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Thanks for the link Geezer It certainly does discuss the physics concerned but i was already aware of that (even if i dont actually understand it) But that wasnt my question.. My question was "how do i know what to do" or how does anyone else know for that matter ..After all , we ALL do it instinctively when its not actually the logical thing to do ?
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Do you remember falling off your bike when you were learning to ride it as a kid?
It's not instinctive, you find out the hard way what happens if you get it wrong. That's why people start out on bikes without engines.
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That's why people start out on bikes without engines.
Speak for yourself, this was my first two-wheel experience:
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guzer.com%2Fpictures%2Ftraining_wheels_motorcycle.jpg&hash=c5a23ccd80e38b1a18bd1e1cfdbafb88)
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Do you remember falling off your bike when you were learning to ride it as a kid?
It's not instinctive, you find out the hard way what happens if you get it wrong. That's why people start out on bikes without engines.
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I think that is just a developmental thing like hand to eye coordination...as a kid you cant catch a ball...you have to practice ... the reason we fall off a bike when we first learn to ride is because we haven't yet convinced ourselves that we can actually balance on two wheels ..childlike logic tells us that we can't.. I once witnessed an adult aged 32 get on a bicycle for the very first time and,, apart from abit of a wobble s,, she could actuallly ride it without having to learn
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That's why people start out on bikes without engines.
Speak for yourself, this was my first two-wheel experience:
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guzer.com%2Fpictures%2Ftraining_wheels_motorcycle.jpg&hash=c5a23ccd80e38b1a18bd1e1cfdbafb88)
Sweet Nizzle :)
Nice ride.
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I'm confused (nothing new there). If my bike had a steering wheel, I'd turn it right to go right, and left to go left.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaB7Ql0SLDB_qqUiVPPjgbj3zis0CrQGPp2h_asxKk82z5PS0YOg)
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I'm confused (nothing new there). If my bike had a steering wheel, I'd turn it right to go right, and left to go left.
It's not as simple as you might think. Turning is more of a controlled "fall".
When you change direction the combined center of mass of you and the bike have to be offset from the point of contact with the road to prevent you falling towards the outside the turn (that's why you lean into the turn.)
While you are turning, you use the steering to adjust the path the wheels follow relative to your center of mass so that you are neither falling inward or outward. You can also do the same thing without touching the handlebars at all by shifting your weight on the bike - "Look Mum! No hands!"
To initiate a turn you have to start to "fall" to one side or the other. On a push bilke, it's hard to even realize you are doing that, but I think we usually do it by resisting the self-centering action of the steering more than anything. We don't consciously turn the handlebars the wrong way, but we achieve a similar result by preventing them from turning automatically.
On a motorbike, the mass of the bike is much greater, so when the rider repositions their weight it has a much smaller effect and, therefore, it's very difficult to initiate the "fall" without actually turning the handlebars in the "wrong" direction to get it started.
When you think about it, it's pretty amazing that we manage to figure it out at all, and we can usually do it when we are only a few years old. Nobody actually "teaches" anyone how to ride a bike. It's a self-learning process.
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I thought this was a pretty good clip of someone doing lots and lots of controlled falls on a unicycle...... amazing what we can learn!
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Brilliant!