[thedoc (OP)]

Peter A. Blacksberg  asked the Naked Scientists:
   http://www.molecularhydrogenfoundation.org/frequent-qa/
Dear critical thinking believers in science. Naked or / not.  People are making claims about "hydrogen infused water" as a cure all.  We believe the only cure is in the pockets of the purveyors of the products.
Please debunk this for the unsuspecting public.
With respect and admiration.
Peter




 
What do you think?

[exothermic]

Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?

When you consider the proclaimed mechanism of action for "hydrogen-infused water",  you'll see that the entire concept is contingent on it's antioxidant capacity -- of which is not even remotely comparable to other antioxidant supplements.

Also note, any of these companies selling hydrogen water are likely using en vitro and/or rodent model-based research to support their claims. The animal diets used in these experiments are completely devoid of antioxidants for an extended period of time, then they introduce the hydrogen water to remediate the antioxidant deficit.

So bottom line, if drinking was the only way to get my antioxidants..... I'd buy orange juice.

~

[alancalverd]

Utter, barefaced bullshit. But what do I know? I'm only a medical physicist, not an advertising copywriter.

[eeyore]

Those of us who do actual medicine upon actual patients are well aware of the importance of belief in any therapeutic modality.

For example, I have known patients who were convinced that any doctor who didn't give them a shot of vitamin B-12 up front on demand was a quack. You could not address their complaints without first injecting 5-6 ml. of Normal Saline in their butts. So would I use "Hydrogen Water" in certain clinical milieus? You better believe it.

Parenthetically when AIDS was stalking the land "Ozone Water" was in vogue. If it made a dying ( or just frightened silly) patient feel better then it qualified as therapy in the book of any decent clinician.

[Bored chemist]

Utter, barefaced bullshit. But what do I know? I'm only a medical physicist, not an advertising copywriter.

I don't always agree with Alan, but he's bang on with this assessment.
The claim is utter dross. The fact that it is also exploitative does little to help.

[evan_au]

The solubility of Hydrogen in water is 160μg of Hydrogen gas in 100g of water.
See: http://www.wiredchemist.com/chemistry/data/solubilities-gases

You actually need to get molecular hydrogen & oxygen fairly hot before they will react (eg with a flame or a spark).  This isn't going to happen when they are dissolved in water. If dissolved hydrogen does not actually react with oxygen, so you can't call it an antioxidant.

I understand that some anaerobic bacteria are able to metabolize hydrogen. Perhaps after you drink your 160μg of dissolved hydrogen, some bacteria in your small intestine might make a small meal of it? 

[exothermic]

 []

You actually need to get molecular hydrogen & oxygen fairly hot before they will react (eg with a flame or a spark).  This isn't going to happen when they are dissolved in water.

Hydrogen water can be made by several methods, including dissolving hydrogen gas in water under high pressure, dissolving electrolyzed H2 in water, and by the reaction of magnesium metal with water.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257754/

[eeyore]

Forasmuch as the NHS reimburses for Homeopathic treatment in the UK under certain circumstances, however ludicrous it may seem to a rational person, I see no reason to look down your nose at "Hydrogen Water".

At least it is non addictive, which puts it head and shoulders above Oxycodone.

I doubt you would ever see a newspaper headline about the "hydrogen water" menace.

[chris]

I understand that some anaerobic bacteria are able to metabolize hydrogen.

...in fact, bacteria in the gut produce hydrogen; a high proportion of farts is hydrogen gas. So the contribution from the water is inconsequential up against the volumes of "fart hydrogen" a person produces each week...

Thus, baked beans would probably be a better prescription...

[Raja Tariq]

Peter A. Blacksberg  asked the Naked Scientists:
   
Dear critical thinking believers in science. Naked or / not.  People are making claims about "hydrogen infused water" as a cure all.  We believe the only cure is in the pockets of the purveyors of the products.
Please debunk this for the unsuspecting public.
With respect and admiration.
Peter
 
What do you think?

I am confused by your comment. I went to the MHF website and they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything. Perhaps even more the article does not say hydrogen is a "cure-all" in fact, it specifically states that it is not, and that a lot more research needs to be done. They also  scientifically refute a number of fallacies like "microclustered water"  perhaps better than anywhere else.

[Raja Tariq]

Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?

When you consider the proclaimed mechanism of action for "hydrogen-infused water",  you'll see that the entire concept is contingent on it's antioxidant capacity -- of which is not even remotely comparable to other antioxidant supplements.

Also note, any of these companies selling hydrogen water are likely using en vitro and/or rodent model-based research to support their claims. The animal diets used in these experiments are completely devoid of antioxidants for an extended period of time, then they introduce the hydrogen water to remediate the antioxidant deficit.

So bottom line, if drinking was the only way to get my antioxidants..... I'd buy orange juice.

~

Apparently you haven't read a single one of those 500+ studies. Yes, most of them are just animal models with few human studies (≈20), but none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants. Also if you read the article on the MHF website "what is molecular hydrogen", it states that the mechanism of action is NOT antioxidant. Please read that article first...

[Raja Tariq]

Utter, barefaced bullshit. But what do I know? I'm only a medical physicist, not an advertising copywriter.

I don't always agree with Alan, but he's bang on with this assessment.
The claim is utter dross. The fact that it is also exploitative does little to help.

It is a fair concern with hydrogen being explosive, but the MHF website clearly explains that the articles published in Nature and others use hydrogen at levels below the flammability level. You'll have to actually read the article on the website....

[Raja Tariq]

I understand that some anaerobic bacteria are able to metabolize hydrogen.

...in fact, bacteria in the gut produce hydrogen; a high proportion of farts is hydrogen gas. So the contribution from the water is inconsequential up against the volumes of "fart hydrogen" a person produces each week...

Thus, baked beans would probably be a better prescription...

The MHF website addresses the bacterially produced hydrogen also, and an article from I believe Nature talks about the dosing enigmas of hydrogen dissolved water and bacterially produced, showing that intermittent exposure is more effective from hydrogen water.

[evan_au]

dosing enigmas of hydrogen dissolved water

Should that be "enemas"?

Sounds less pleasant than drinking it...

[exothermic]

the article on the MHF website "what is molecular hydrogen", it states that the mechanism of action is NOT antioxidant. Please read that article first...

lol.... There is a plethora of peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate my point - including the website you just used as a reference:  http://www.molecularhydrogenfoundation.org/what-is-molecular-hydrogen/

"It wasn’t until 2007, when an article was published in Nature Medicine,5 which showed the [selective antioxidant properties] and antiapoptotic (anti-cell death) activity of molecular hydrogen, that the biomedical field took strong interest in hydrogen’s therapeutic potential. Prior to 2007, only 50 articles were published regarding hydrogen as a medical gas, compared to over 500 articles within the past seven years."

[exothermic]

Apparently you haven't read a single one of those 500+ studies.

none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants.

You wanna bet?  Try me.

[exothermic]

Does hydrogen infused water have any health benefits?

Marginal at best.

Is it a cure-all? = Definitely not

Are the benefits worth paying for? = Definitely not

~

[exothermic]

At least it is non addictive, which puts it head and shoulders above Oxycodone.

I doubt you would ever see a newspaper headline about the "hydrogen water" menace.

Why are you comparing the dynamics of an antioxidant to a narcotic?

[exothermic]

I am confused by your comment. I went to the MHF website and they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything.

Allow me to clarify....  since you apparently didn't do any research:

Molecular Hydrogen Foundation founder: Tyler Lebaron

US Patent #14/922,767
Inventors: Mikhail Kazakevitch, Tyler LeBaron
Hydrogen-generating effervescent tablet and methods therefor
US 20160113865 A1
ABSTRACT
Convenient, inexpensive and portable effervescent tablets that the consumer can add to water to generate hydrogen-rich water just prior to drinking.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20160113865

[exothermic]

they are a science-based nonprofit and don't sell anything.

They also scientifically refute a number of fallacies perhaps better than anywhere else.

the MHF website clearly explains

The MHF website addresses the bacterially produced hydrogen

500+ studies most of them are just animal models with few human studies (≈20), but none of them fed the animals diets devoid of antioxidants.

Just an observation here:

You curiously seem to know quite a bit about MHF, and your use of (≈20).... and the fact that you imply to have read all 500+ studies.... suggests you are involved in R&D.

Carry on.

~